Board 8 > Team Fortress 2 Discussion Topic: Where we lament the loss of wavedash [tf2]

(+) Yeah! (+)

My favorite thing about F2P is how I go into a random server and I'm nearly always at the top of the leaderboard within a few minutes. And I'll usually still be number one (and if not, it's Para or Biscuit up there or that Dark Dane Spy who was awesome)

--
"But...gorillas don't have claws." - Azazel22
"Broccoli gorillas do." - McMoogle

I wish I got a replay of the time where I sticky trapped the A door on Gravelpit and killed 6 people in the blast, but I forgot to save the replay because that life went on for so long. I would've titled it "Conclusion: F2P players aren't very good at TF2, exhibit A".

If you guys are still looking for lame glitches to exploit, you can use your primary weapon after eating the steak as Heavy.

--
I like how each new topic you make reveals such varied facets of your idiocy. - foolmo
Now this is entertainment!

I saw a Heavy running around with his minigun out with a minicrit boost up and was wondering what was going on. I guess that must be it.

That's no fun though. That's just doing more damage with a class that doesn't need it.

Actually, that was just patched roughly one hour ago.

--
Xbox GT: PrivateBiscuit1
Down with Zhang. Let there be Biscuit!

Every time I go to try and exploit Heavy stuff, it gets patched before I get there. First the Tommislav, then the steak ;_;

--
It will launch for $350 with some Wii Sports s***. I bet my life on it. Damn, that KoolAid guy is awesome - NGamer64

Don't worry. The Tomislav is still OP for your enjoyment.

--
Xbox GT: PrivateBiscuit1
Down with Zhang. Let there be Biscuit!

Nah, the Tomislav's a proper sidegrade now imo. The spinup time isn't nearly as brutally fast as it was.

I disagree. It's still very noticeably quicker and the lesser damage it does is like, completely negligible.

--
Xbox GT: PrivateBiscuit1
Down with Zhang. Let there be Biscuit!

It's not completely negligible. The firing rate does make a difference. It didn't make enough of a difference before when the Tomislav had no spinup time at all, but now that it's been increased I think it's a proper tradeoff.

Also, the heavy minicrit thing hasn't been patched. I still see people using it. Really annoying.

That new spy suit and heavy metal jaws look pretty cool.

--
You beat yourself up with your past. Don't blame yourself, blame the world. Blame God. Blame me.

That's weird. The patch notes said it was fixed.

--
Xbox GT: PrivateBiscuit1
Down with Zhang. Let there be Biscuit!

Tomislav was barely nerfed. The spin-up time reduction barely means anything from the look of things, and the lower rate of fire doesn't amount to anything because the Heavy's damage is ridiculous anyway.

--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOqk_q4NLLI
Not taking it.

The Splendid Screen and Chargin' Targe no longer grant critical hits at all ranges.

GG Demoknight Empire

--
It will launch for $350 with some Wii Sports s***. I bet my life on it. Damn, that KoolAid guy is awesome - NGamer64

okay I've jumped into water while burning like five times now, give me the goddamn ticket so I can stop playing ****ing 2fort, Valve

Tomislav deals more damage than the minigun in the first 2.5 seconds, then the minigun starts to win out in damage.

--
Ginhyun
'Cause tramps like us, baby we were born to run

And 2.5 seconds is All you need

Seriously, outside of medic heals, the Heavy can drop anybody in 2.5 seconds. Including another Heavy.

--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOqk_q4NLLI
Not taking it.

I got that ticket achievement pretty easily. Just went on a random 2fort server, ran to the bridge and almost instantly got hit by a pyro. First fall into the water got it.

--
You beat yourself up with your past. Don't blame yourself, blame the world. Blame God. Blame me.

Yeah, I know you generally don't need more than 2.5 seconds. It's at least better than the 4 seconds or so the minigun used to take to outclass the Tomislav.

Honestly, I feel the heavy needs tweaks in general. He's a bit too effective for the amount of effort you need to put in, and he's just not very fun to play against.

--
Ginhyun
'Cause tramps like us, baby we were born to run

He's not very fun to play AS, either. Even when I'm dominating like 3 guys and near the top of the leaderboard, I'm thinking "Ya know, I really want to play Soldier/Scout right now ;_;"

--
It will launch for $350 with some Wii Sports s***. I bet my life on it. Damn, that KoolAid guy is awesome - NGamer64

I've been saying this every single month since he was buffed. Natascha wasn't the problem, it was the fact that they made the Heavy the single easiest class in the game. He's a goddamn points machine that requires minimal talent.

--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOqk_q4NLLI
Not taking it.

Also, this new craft menu is TERRIBLE

--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOqk_q4NLLI
Not taking it.

I don't get why Pyro gets all the grief about "zomg W + M1" when the Heavy is...kinda the same thing. But with more health and firepower. Yeah, easy target for spies and snipers, but who gives a s***, you're dominating everyone else.

--
It will launch for $350 with some Wii Sports s***. I bet my life on it. Damn, that KoolAid guy is awesome - NGamer64

I haven't had much time with the Heavy yet, but he does seem very powerful. I've read other people complaining about how medics flock to the Heavy when Soldier/Demoman are better candidates for uber. Maybe that's true for the more experienced players, but where I'm at backing the Heavy always seems like the best option.

--
You beat yourself up with your past. Don't blame yourself, blame the world. Blame God. Blame me.

TheKoolAidShoto posted...
I don't get why Pyro gets all the grief about "zomg W + M1" when the Heavy is...kinda the same thing. But with more health and firepower. Yeah, easy target for spies and snipers, but who gives a s***, you're dominating everyone else.

Just something that stuck ever since the pre-nerf backburner days.

--
Ginhyun
'Cause tramps like us, baby we were born to run

You guys are all speaking like true pubbers right now. Yeah, heavy is easy to play in pubs where people don't know not to walk straight into your line of fire and die. If you're playing, say, competitive highlander, heavy takes a lot of discipline to play well. I was an amazing pub heavy that could never quite make the transition when we started playing highlander.

Heavy is fine as he is.

Pyros can just push heavies away, so they're not terribly good for rushing sentries. Demos are best for that.

The real problem, though, is newbie medics who won't even heal me when I'm playing soldier. They just keep healing the heavies, even though the newbie heavy's not going to turn around even after the pyro behind him sets him on fire.

--
Oh, a big machine with flashy lights. A big machine like that has me written all over it. Well, okay, it doesn't. But give me time... and a crayon --11th Doctor

Heavy's candidacy for uber is highly dependent on the situation. If there's a pyro ready to airblast you, he's likely going to waste most of your time if not all of it, which is where soldiers and demomen are better uber candidates. Heavy is also not always the best choice if you're trying to take down a sentry, although it sometimes works. If you can catch people around a blind corner, though, or you're in a fire-fight in a somewhat close quarter situation, heavy uber can be horrifying. Same goes for kritzkrieg.

Of course we're talking about pubs, get that highlander/6v6 s*** out of here

--
http://www.yourgamercards.net/trophy/a/NathanDrake90.png

Another thing I'll say about uber in pubs - heavy's a lot more effective than soldier or demomen there because there are fewer concerns about timing. Communication and purpose is important for a soldier or demoman uber, you have to make sure they've got their ammo loaded and all that. Heavy's just uber, hold down mouse, and fire away. It's effective in most situations, but it's at a particular advantage in unplanned and uncoordinated situations. Even pyro ubers in pubs oftentimes seem a lot better than soldier or demoman ubers. A team that has good coordination can make a lot out of soldier and demoman ubers though, oftentimes more than heavy because they're faster, their weaponry is harder to escape, and they're less easy to shut down.

TheKoolAidShoto | Posted 7/1/2011 7:46:19 PM | message detail | quote
Of course we're talking about pubs, get that highlander/6v6 s*** out of here

Haha.

The point is that in pub servers, people simply don't know how to fight heavy, which is why he's so easy to play. When people understand how to fight the heavy, he suddenly becomes maddeningly difficult to play, because everyone knows you're the most dangerous person to be in the same room as, so the entire team will absolutely refuse to fight you on your own terms, because everyone else is capable of outrunning you and staying out of your range until they have an advantage. But nobody does this on pub servers, so heavy is easy.

It's not an inherent game imbalance with the heavy, people are just bad at the game. Simple as that.

I tried to go back to the regular rocket launcher after playing with the Liberty Launcher. S*** was soooo slow, it was sad, son. LL for life.

--
http://www.yourgamercards.net/trophy/a/NathanDrake90.png

Heavy is actually limited to 1 in...CEVO, I believe? And I know at least one league is banning the Sandvich. GRU may have also been banned, I think.

Basically, the heavy is not fine in pubs or comp at this point.

--
Ginhyun
'Cause tramps like us, baby we were born to run

Wait they banned Sandvich AND GRU?

Terrible

--
It will launch for $350 with some Wii Sports s***. I bet my life on it. Damn, that KoolAid guy is awesome - NGamer64

I'm not sure the Sandvich and GRU bannings are in the same league.

--
Ginhyun
'Cause tramps like us, baby we were born to run

Paratroopa1 posted...
You guys are all speaking like true pubbers right now. Yeah, heavy is easy to play in pubs where people don't know not to walk straight into your line of fire and die. If you're playing, say, competitive highlander, heavy takes a lot of discipline to play well. I was an amazing pub heavy that could never quite make the transition when we started playing highlander.

Heavy is fine as he is.

I'm sorry, but last I checked, most of the servers I visit don't play by the rulebook of competitive highlander.

It's really silly to say that because the Heavy takes a lot of work to use in a particular game mode that's not even close to the norm for this game that he's perfectly fine the way he is. You're making a big mistake in assuming so. You consider highlander/6v6 the "real" way to play TF2, but it's very scarce compared to the hundreds of casual games taking place at this very moment.

--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOqk_q4NLLI
Not taking it.

No, you got what I said wrong. I didn't say heavy takes a lot of work to play in a particular game mode. I said that heavy takes a lot of work to play against players who have even the slightest clue what they're doing. If people played the game better, they'd find that heavy isn't nearly as broken as they think.

From: Mega Mana | #051
My favorite thing about F2P is how I go into a random server and I'm nearly always at the top of the leaderboard within a few minutes. And I'll usually still be number one (and if not, it's Para or Biscuit up there or that Dark Dane Spy who was awesome)

Yeah I remember that time when I dominated that entire valve server with you and Boko on it

--
_foolmo_
'so I can potentially win the guru without getting the final right?' - BlAcK TuRtLe

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

dinobot19 posted...
VintageGin posted...
I'm not sure the Sandvich and GRU bannings are in the same league.


GRU was banned in all competitive leagues last season. ESEA is also banning sandvich, bonk, and sidney sleeper this season. Dubel, the head admin of CEVO tf2, and someone I talk to every day, is unbanning many weapons, including the GRU(he's not 100% set on it, but it is an interest of his). He'll likely keep the heavy ban at 1, which is something ESEA runs. Like I said, nothing is finalized yet, but that's his general plan, unless he's changed his mind. He's keeping game breaking stuff like the wrangler, sandman and nat banned for sure.

Also, para, what are you talking about not making the transition well. Dubel said you're one of the scariest highlander heavies he's played against!

--
XD blitz did you warn me? -Angerfist
No, but I'm suspending you right now. -BlitzBoy

There's nothing wrong with Heavies being as powerful as they are because there are already two classes that pretty much hard counter them. Not to mention that Heavies get raped around corners.

Of course, this is for pubs and I'm just of the opinion that TF2 really isn't meant to be played on the very competitive level.

--
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x182/kurtfisto/kayfaraday.jpg
~KF~

dinobot19 | Posted 7/1/2011 11:08:59 PM | message detail | quote
Also, para, what are you talking about not making the transition well. Dubel said you're one of the scariest highlander heavies he's played against!

That's nice of him, but I never felt like I could quite grasp it properly, even if I did manage to rack up kills. I'd still end up putting myself in stupid spots, getting separated from the team, and not communicating properly, and wind up getting too stressed out. Engineer suits me better.

From: biolizardfan | #089
Yeah I remember that time when I dominated that entire valve server with you and Boko on it

and I dominated it too!

--
Virtue - "You don't need a reason to lynch people."

Paratroopa1 posted...
No, you got what I said wrong. I didn't say heavy takes a lot of work to play in a particular game mode. I said that heavy takes a lot of work to play against players who have even the slightest clue what they're doing. If people played the game better, they'd find that heavy isn't nearly as broken as they think.

That's a really ****ing foolish notion and I'm hoping you'll stop right there. You basically told 90% of the community to "get good."

The Heavy is no more broken than Sentinel is in MvC3, but they're both equally unfun to play against. He takes minimal effort to work at maximum efficiency. I'd actually say that the Demoman needs to work harder than the Heavy to put out a passable performance. Vanilla Demoman.

Granted, when somebody has a really good feel for their class, they tend to be nightmares to play against because all pretenses of fun are thrown out the window when you are headshot/backstabbed/puff and stung for the millionth time. But the difference between every other class and the Heavy is that pretty much ANYONE can become an asspain with the Heavy because his learning curve is non-existent. Then you factor in that his secondary and melee unlocks exist solely to make his rampage last longer, come sooner, or go Juggernaut on you and shrug off any non-melee attack thrown at him.

I don't particularly care about how the Heavy does with people who know what they're doing, because A) they're few and far between, and B) frankly, wouldn't know fun if it shot them in the kneecaps.

--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOqk_q4NLLI
Not taking it.

heavy is stupid and imbalanced because valve took away virtually every one of his 'downsides' and have given him one of the versatile item selections.

- He's just as fast as as pyro with the GRU. He has the most HP and DPS in the game.
- If you're seriously having trouble with snipers, there's always the fists of steel.
- Sandvich is a free full heal.
- Tomislav is still a straight upgrade unless you have to shoot at a target for 2.5 seconds.

The icing on the cake is that they're the easiest class to play. I shouldn't take upwards of 150+ damage just because I ran into a heavy. People say you can always run from a heavy, but this often isn't the case with the GRU and tomislav's chasing potential. Heavies are what? only 3% slower than a soldier? That's ridiculous.

Heavies en masse can and will ruin every single game mode in TF2. Even mass demomen can be dealt with to an extent, since demoman is at least a hard class to master.

--
maybe, lol

From: Paratroopa1 | #093
and wind up getting too stressed out

*remembers tin cup finals*

good times

--
_foolmo_
'and out of the blue and completely unprovoked came foolmo and his insult' - Anagram

To be fair, you can take stupid amounts of damage for nothing in this game. Whoops, you moved out in the open, enjoy your headshot. Hey, you were focusing on other people trying to kill you, enjoy your instant death backstab. You rounded a corner, enjoy being on fire. Oh man, way to have a normal firefight for once, have a crit.

--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOqk_q4NLLI
Not taking it.

I don't know fun? :( Does that mean going on random pub servers with 4-6 people, and all of us going demoknight, wasn't fun?

--
XD blitz did you warn me? -Angerfist
No, but I'm suspending you right now. -BlitzBoy

dinobots are not programmed for fun; they are only programmed for lightning-fast reaction times when it comes to airblasting

stop going against your programming dino

--
Ginhyun
'Cause tramps like us, baby we were born to run