Board 8 > Rank the Tracks Week 58: Dream Theater's Images and Words (+ So results)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Previous results can be seen here:
https://board8.fandom.com/wiki/Rank_the_Tracks

The rules:
1. Listen to the album in full
2. Rank every track on the album
3. For the results, there will be a curve at the top of each list; two additional points between #1 and #2, and one additional point for the next two ranks. This way, the songs that really stick out to someone get an edge that is not immediately negated by someone else putting it lower. In the case of Demon Days, someone's 15th track will get 1 point, 14th 2 points, 4th 12 points, 3rd 14 points, 2nd 16 points, and 1st 19 points. For albums with greater than 15 tracks, everything ranked below #15 will be given 0 points and the scale for the top 15 will be the same as a 15-track album. For albums with more than 20 tracks, you only have to list your top 15 (with 16-20, I still like having the average rank listed)
4. If you want to include comments for individual songs, I will compile them in the results
5. The results will be posted at the beginning of the next topic
6. The deadline to vote is Sunday, April 17 at 8:00 AM EST - though if you are for whatever reason listening to the album around that time, just say so in the topic and I can delay a bit
7. You can sign up to be added to the user cycle - the next person on the list will choose 3 albums which the other users will vote on for the next topic.
7a. To ensure people are being given an actual choice, the three nominated albums must be by different artists. You can otherwise stick to a similar sound or era.
7b. The tiebreaker for these polls will be whichever is listed first in the poll options - make sure to deliver the results in order of your own preference (which will hopefully have the added benefit of influencing people toward your first choice if they can't decide).

Dream Theater - Images and Words track list:
1. Pull Me Under
2. Another Day
3. Take the Time
4. Surrounded
5. Metropolis - Part I: The Miracle and the Sleeper
6. Under a Glass Moon
7. Wait for Sleep
8. Learning to Leave

User Cycle:
4/17: TheArkOfTurus (Metallica - Master of Puppets)
4/24: Snake5555555555 (Black Marble - It's Immaterial)
5/1: Jesse_Custer
5/8: ZaziGuado
5/15: firefdr
5/22: SpikeSetsFire
5/29: Johnbobb
6/5: VeryInsane
6/12: CasanovaZelos
6/19: Seanchan
6/26: Giggsalot
7/3: RyoCaliente
7/10: darkx
7/17: neonreaper
7/24: Great_Paul
7/31: jcgamer107
8/7: ChichiriMuyo
8/14: BlueCrystalTear
8/21: MetalmindStats
8/28: HBJDubs

Peter Gabriel - So results

The participants sorted by deviation from final results:
CasanovaZelos (7)
Jesse_Custer (7)
Seanchan (9)
HBJDubs (12)
BlueCrystalTear (13)
Raetsel_Lapin (14)
MetalmindStats (14)
jcgamer107 (19)
Paratroopa1 (23)

General Album Comments

jcgamer107: and now, the good Phil Collins

BlueCrystalTear (responding to jcgamer107): This is such a bad take every time I see it.

Peter Gabriel left Genesis because the rest of the band wouldn't go pop, so he went solo so he could produce mainstream music.

The man whose departure got Genesis to ultimately go in the direction they did? Steve Hackett. I suggest you listen to Hackett's solo material from the mid/late 70s, since that's an education. I also suggest you listen to A Trick of the Tail and Wind & Wuthering, which are two fantastic Genesis albums that sometimes get forgotten because "blah blah blah Gabriel blah blah."

There's also a reason Phil's solo career was far more successful than Gabriel's. Before today, I couldn't name a single Peter Gabriel solo song aside from the two big hits from this album.

By the way, this is a far cry from meaning that I dislike Gabriel - far from it. I enjoy his Genesis material and the two solo songs I mentioned. It's just that so many people seem to think that Phil becoming lead singer of Genesis was what made the band change, but that's simply not true. It's because he did that Genesis stayed avant-garde.

Johnbobb: Collins >>>>>> Gabriel

Seanchan: First listen done.

Initial impressions, I think I like the singles here more than on Face Value but like the overall album less. Also, so many of these songs feel so long, clocking in at 5-6 minutes.

BlueCrystalTear: First listen down. Up and down tonally, but definitely well-crafted 80s pop. Like Sean,I noticed the lengthiness of the songs causing my interest to wane. I've never been fond of lengthy songs that are slower-paced like that. If you're gonna make it long, make it epic. And the last couple songs took a very... odd turn. Overall, I think it's very hit-or-miss. But I got at least two more listens to do here before I render a final verdict.

MetalmindStats: For what it's worth, the track order with In Your Eyes last was apparently Peter Gabriel's preference even at the time, but it couldn't be implemented back then due to vinyl's technical limitations.

BlueCrystalTear: To be honest, it would kind of feel like a slog to get to In Your Eyes, with Mercy Street lasting longer than it has to and having the two oddities placed back-to-back at the end of the album. This Is the Picture in particular just doesn't do anything for me. And this is after... three listens, maybe four.

I can see why Gabriel wanted it that way. He wanted buildup to a climactic track (which In Your Eyes is), but apparently vinyl couldn't handle a booming bassline as a final track back then. It's odd, however, that the CD and cassette releases didn't have his preferential order since they had that awful extra track anyway. There was nothing saying the track order had to be the same across different media.

Seanchan: I just kinda found this album to be boring. Yes, Sledgehammer and In Your Eyes are legitimately good. But even those still suffer from my main issue that the songs just go on a minute or three too long. Maybe I'm just not in the right mood at the moment and this album just isn't my vibe, but I found this one to be a chore. In this matchup, Collins is the clear winner over Gabriel.

Paratroopa1: I thought about writing something for each song but I didn't 'cause I'm lazy and the deadline's almost up. Sledgehammer is one of the best music videos ever and a definitive 80's pop song. I dunno why I like This is the Picture so much, just kinda dig that menacing bass. Don't Give Up was the only track I didn't like at all.

So track ranking

9. That Voice Again (Track #4)
Score: 25 (Average Rank: 7.22/9)
Biggest Fan(s): jcgamer107 (#4)
Biggest Detractor(s): Raetsel_Lapin, MetalmindStats, HBJDubs, Jesse_Custer (#9)

BlueCrystalTear: At first I thought this was a Whitney Houston song, and then it was something else. A very 80s dance tune.

MetalmindStats: The song from So that hews closest to Gabriels past solo output, it is fun, but it fails to stand out in context.

jcgamer107: Very synthwave-y bridge, and a pretty good chorus with nice two-part harmonies

8. This is the Picture (Excellent Birds) (Track #9)
Score: 27 (Average Rank: 7.22/9)
Biggest Fan(s): Paratroopa1 (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): CasanovaZelos, BlueCrystalTear, Seanchan (#9)

BlueCrystalTear: This is even weirder than Milgrams 37 and, unlike that one, not in a good way. Its catchy the first time until you realize that this song is just six words long.

MetalmindStats: Its enigmatic contradiction - so few words about so much - draws me in and sticks with me every time, along with its off-kilter musicianship.

jcgamer107: Weird and artsy....maybe as a joke? I dunno, it at least has energy to it, and the chorus is good. I will never ever watch the music video though, it looks like it might have potential to be worse than In Your Eyes.

7. We Do What We're Told (Milgram's 37) (Track #8)
Score: 28 (Average Rank: 6.89/9)
Biggest Fan(s): Raetsel_Lapin, BlueCrystalTear, HBJDubs (#6)
Biggest Detractor(s): Seanchan, MetalmindStats (#8)

BlueCrystalTear: What is this? Its weird, yet magical? It reminds me of A Hat in Time tbh, which may be why I feel like this doesnt fit what its saying. Even if I love that comparison.

MetalmindStats: It has a wispily incomplete feel, even punctuated by persistent drums, that seems part of the point to me.

jcgamer107: An interesting and foreboding track to start to wind down the album....I like the reference to the notorious Milgram experiment

6. Mercy Street (Track #6)
Score: 43 (Average Rank: 5.67/9)
Biggest Fan(s): MetalmindStats (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): jcgamer107 (#9)

BlueCrystalTear: This one also went on way too long. Catchy beat and good hook but it loses me midway, and then I forget about it even though I'm listening to it. Please have mercy.

MetalmindStats: For me, much of Mercy Streets beauty comes in its crystal-clear clarity about thoughts and feelings stemming from some shapeless void. Dreamy isnt an unfair word to describe it, but I think it goes deeper than that, with connotations of being adrift on a boat in the midst of a fogbound sea.

jcgamer107: Just way too long and slow.... I'm waiting for it to end almost as soon as it starts

5. Don't Give Up (Track #3)
Score: 46 (Average Rank: 5.44/9)
Biggest Fan(s): Raetsel_Lapin (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Paratroopa1 (#9)

BlueCrystalTear: Went from liking this to feeling that it dragged on too long, and thus it became sleepy. Extra points for Kate Bush, who took her parts to wuthering heights.

MetalmindStats: Its slow-and-steady composition and conversational delivery work harmoniously together to establish a soothing back-and-forth rhythm suited to settle into for the long haul.

jcgamer107: Good message....not the best song. Has some feeling to it but isn't worth a 6 1/2 minute runtime.

4. Big Time (Track #7)
Score: 59 (Average Rank: 4.11/9)
Biggest Fan(s): jcgamer107 (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): BlueCrystalTear (#7)

BlueCrystalTear: A wake up song that feels like thats all it is.

MetalmindStats: The most obvious (and boisterous) product of its decade here, its just as much a distillation thereof. Gabriel typically had its cake and ate it too with a song thats subtler and cleverer because it works on every level from entirely straight to purely satiric equally well.

jcgamer107: Nearly matches Sledgehammer in catchyness & quality of music video. The vocal section from 0:37-0:55 is fantastic. The only Genesis-related track that can compete with this and Sledgehammer in my opinion is Land of Confusion.

3. Red Rain (Track #1)
Score: 68 (Average Rank: 3.33/9)
Biggest Fan(s): HBJDubs (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): jcgamer107 (#5)

BlueCrystalTear: Fantastic opener, but really not much else to say about it other than it really does get your attention.

MetalmindStats: On such an evocative album, coming first enhances the impact of its mostly monolithically oppressive soundscape, which subsumes all until it gradually eases up towards the end.

jcgamer107: Pretty good opener....I actually like everything *but* the chorus here - he comes in sounding like a wannabe Bruce Springsteen or something. The opening build is really good though, and the verses have great vocal and synth work.

1 (tie). Sledgehammer (Track #2)
Score: 86 (Average Rank: 2.56/9)
Biggest Fan(s): Seanchan, jcgamer107, Paratroopa1 (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Raetsel_Lapin (#7)

BlueCrystalTear: A catchy sing-along that was a hit for a reason. Its also about fucking, which is a pretty relatable topic for a lot of people.

MetalmindStats: Musically, not just lyrically, it captures what I imagine to be the heedlessly giddy sensuality of sexual attraction. How peculiar indeed that such a suggestive song is my second favorite ever to dance to.

jcgamer107: Extremely catchy with a booming horn section. One of the all-time great music videos, and one of the best modern uses of shakuhachi bamboo flute you'll find.

1 (tie). In Your Eyes (Track #5)
Score: 86 (Average Rank: 2.56/9)
Biggest Fan(s): CasanovaZelos, BlueCrystalTear, Jesse_Custer (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Paratroopa1 (#6)

BlueCrystalTear: Its 80s pop meets world music. Its glorious. Its nice to have someone whose eyes you can just get lost in and die of thirst, too. It works best at the end like Gabriel wanted, too.

MetalmindStats: A song musically and lyrically about looking and longing until, in NDours swoon, it seems to become about the relief of finding. To me, its inspired musical synthesis and overall complete approach are characteristic of So in general.

jcgamer107: As good as the Sledgehammer & Big Time music videos are, that's how bad this one is - still, the prechrous & chorus are reeaally good, and Peter's vocals have rarely been better.

Jesse_Custer's comments on their album choices:

Caravan Palace - <|_|> (aka Robot Face)

Ive listened to a lot of electro swing albums and this is one of the best. Electro swing is basically a fusion of old-fashioned swing and big band styles with modern electronic beats. Somehow blending two things that dont seem like they should go together works really well.

Woodkid - The Golden Age

I think this album falls under the category of orchestral pop. Theres a ton of instrumentation that could be a mess in lesser hands, but all comes together really well here with excellent production and catchy melodies. Also, virtually every song on the album seems like it could be a self-contained movie soundtrack.

The Eagles - Hotel California

This 70s rock album is a strong contender for the best Eagles album, and a great entry point for those who know little about the band. While the song that shares its name with the album is an obvious standout, just about every song on the album is great.

Tag. Will do first listen tomorrow.

Lol I did offer a proper album comment

1. Metropolis - Part I: The Miracle and the Sleeper
2. Learning to Live
3. Pull Me Under
4. Wait for Sleep
5. Under a Glass Moon
6. Take the Time
7. Surrounded
8. Another Day

Love this album

1. Under a Glass Moon
2. Metropolis - Part I: The Miracle and the Sleeper
3. Surrounded
4. Take the Time
5. Wait for Sleep
6. Another Day
7. Learning to Live
8. Pull Me Under

Under a Glass Moon has one of my two favorite DT guitar solos.
Metropolis has the duet which is stellar.
Surrounded is a guilty pleasure, but way way way better in some of the live versions that it affects my ranking here

Pull me Under is kind of boring and overrated

uh oh this is one of my favorite albums i might actually have to participate (i thought about it with a couple albums earlier i love; but decided against it. this album i know by heart tho so it should be easy to rank, i've done rankings of it before.

ping me in case i forget by the end of this week. hesitating because i wanna relisten and decide what sorta comments i wanna make if any)

@Toxtricity

Tag,

Did a first listen. I've heard some Dream Theater earlier in my life but not this particular album, though I recognized Another Day.

I'm actually more familiar with some of their members' side project, Liquid Tension Experiment, whose 2nd album is one I still go back to every so often. Also, apparently they released a 3rd album last year!

This album was huge for Dream Theater and for progressive metal. It's awesome and doesn't really have much in the way of weaknesses. The biggest flaw is that the label prevented them from having Change of Seasons on the album. can you friggin imagine this album with Change of Seasons on it??

Metropolis - Part I: The Miracle and the Sleeper
This song always stuck with me and if you wish it was 80 minutes long, I have some good news for you!

Pull Me Under
They made a commercially viable song that has always been fun to listen to. I don't want to overstate this, but it's a very important prog metal song. At the same time, sure, there's a lot of Dream Theater that far exceeds this. It's hard to rank - there's a lot of nostalgia here for me, it's an important song, it's enjoyable, yet I do ultimately prefer other songs.

Surrounded
I don't even know why this song gets me, it just does. I always liked Moore's songwriting. And if you like Kevin Moore - check out Chroma Key. It's what he left Dream Theater to do and it's good!

Under a Glass Moon
Everyone is firing on all cylinders here. You listen to the album and you just finish with Metropolis and wow.

Learning to Live
Whoa oh haaaaaaaaaaaaa

Another Day

Wait for Sleep

Take the Time

I am revealing the results for Rank the Albums Volume 2 here:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/79980109

1: Surrounded
2: Another Day
3: Wait for Sleep
4: Pull Me Under
5: Learning to Live
6: Metropolis - Part I: The Miracle and the Sleeper
7: Take the Time
8: Under a Glass Moon

And I'd like to be added to the user cycle now, please and thank you.

bump

Note that the results will be a bit late this week due to Easter - I probably won't get around to them until the evening, so feel free to consider the deadline more like 5 PM central on Sunday.

My first time listening to Dream Theater outside of a song in the Rock Band series. Didn't quite hook me at the start, but that middle section has me wanting to check out the rest of their work.

My ranking:
Under a Glass Moon
Metropolis - Part I: The Miracle and the Sleeper
Another Day
Surrounded
Take the Time
Pull Me Under
Learning to Leave
Wait for Sleep

Learning To Live
Metropolis - Part I: The Miracle and The Sleeper
Wait For Sleep
Surrounded
Take The Time
Pull Me Under
Another Day
Under A Glass Moon

Learning to Live
Wait for Sleep
Metropolis - Part I: The Miracle and the Sleeper
Another Day
Take the Time
Surrounded
Under a Glass Moon
Pull Me Under

songs being low does not mean i'm knocking them here. this album is insanely good to me, to the point where not placing everything in the top half is painful

Bump

I'll have my ranking up tomorrow. Since we've got a little extra time I'd rather do another listen tomorrow rather than cram it in tonight.

I got very distracted by other things (computer parts) and subsequently forgot about this.

First listen tonight!

This wasn't exactly what I expected from an early 90s metal album; I was expecting something screamier. This is really, really good stuff. I am LOVING this.

Just one problem: It's gonna be hard to rank. Really hard. Especially due to my self-imposed short notice...

Under a Glass Moon so polarizing it seems

BlueCrystalTear posted...

This wasn't exactly what I expected from an early 90s metal album; I was expecting something screamier. This is really, really good stuff. I am LOVING this.

Just one problem: It's gonna be hard to rank. Really hard. Especially due to my self-imposed short notice...

You'll have to listen to Metropolis pt. 2 next

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Under a Glass Moon so polarizing it seems

This is the kind of album that's going to have wild rankings, because while there are tracks I like less than the others, I still really enjoy them. This album has the right balance of ballads like "Another Day" with the soaring rockers. There's not a single song on here that I dislike. So even the ones I'm gonna rank lower (I'm finishing listen #3 right now... of probably 4), I still like.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

You'll have to listen to Metropolis pt. 2 next

Will do.

oops I ran out of time

1. Another Day
2. Pull Me Under
3. Surrounded
4. Metropolis Part I: The Miracle and the Sleeper
5. Wait for Sleep
6. Learning to Live
7. Under a Glass Moon
8. Take the Time

Take the Time is the only one I felt went on for too long, though "Under a Glass Moon" came close. The name Dream Theater is clearly evocative of epics, and boy do they deliver there. I really enjoyed my top 6 every time I listened and am definitely going to check out more of their stuff. No idea why I didn't before!

1. Another Day
2. Surrounded
3. Metropolis - Part I: The Miracle and the Sleeper
4. Take the Time
5. Under a Glass Moon
6. Learning to Leave
7. Wait for Sleep
8. Pull Me Under

What a fantastic album! There's not a bad song here and it really grew on me with each listen, which is good because I felt oddly ambivalent after the first spin. The instrumentation is great but I think what really makes it is the vocalist; not necessarily the words but just the tone and sound. Definitely makes me want to check out more Dream Theater, something I probably should have otherwise done 20 years ago...

Dream Theater also can be hit or miss. Images and Words was their breakout album, but Metropolis pt. 2 is generally considered their opus. As already said, A Change of Seasons is worth lumping in with Images and Words as well.

NOBODY listens to their first album (it's pre-Labrie as vocalist). Falling Into Infinity is generally considered the worst of the Portnoy albums but it has one of my favorite tracks (and all the rest I literally can't remember).

I think the thing that really sticks out for Dream Theater, pre-self-named-album, is that Mike Portnoy is probably the most musical drummer in a band. He doesn't play the drums as drums, he plays percussion as its own clear voice, melodic and accompaniment.

I haven't really listened to post-Portnoy Dream Theater, but if you want to listen to more after Metropolis pt. 2, I like to push people in the direction of the Score live album (they did the Metallica S&M thing, but unlike Metallica, they didn't sound like shit).

I really enjoyed Distance Over Time, probably top three DT albums for me.

I've heard they got better once Mangini found his voice.

Only listened to Dramatic Turn of Events, and that one was easily disposable to me.

On this week's vote, I instinctively voted for The Eagles without even thinking. I'm sure for a lot of you it was a vote because you know it, but for me it was a vote because I don't (other than the title track) which feels like a blind spot.

Anyway I scrolled down and read Jesse's write up and I felt bad because Caravan Palace sounded damn interesting. I did a listen to their top listed songs on Spotify and that's some good stuff! That song Lone Digger in particular is awesome! So yeah, I just wanted to give some love to a pick that didn't get selected.

oh shit, I know this album...but apparently I didn't see the topic until it was already over. RIP.

azuarc posted...

oh shit, I know this album...but apparently I didn't see the topic until it was already over. RIP.

You've still got maybe 2-3 hours before CasanovaZelos tallies it up

apparently there's still time lmao

Learning to Live
Glass Moon
Metropolis
Wait for Sleep
Take the Time
Pull me Under
Surrounded
Another Day

I knew a few Dream Theater songs and generally what the band was like, plus I love Planet X which was founded by Derek Sherinian, so I thought I had an idea of what the album would be like. I was wrong lmao. I was expecting much more prog and much less glam rock or hair metal or whatever you'd call this... I guess Rush probably a meaningful comparison. Don't get me wrong, that genre is fine, but it's not what I wanted from this, and not what the band could be. Luckily it gets better as the album progresses.

wow the opening to surrounded sounds like Snowball ~ Franca's Cafe!

HanOfTheNekos posted...

NOBODY listens to their first album (it's pre-Labrie as vocalist). Falling Into Infinity is generally considered the worst of the Portnoy albums but it has one of my favorite tracks (and all the rest I literally can't remember).

Which is a shame cause it's one of their best.

Snake5555555555 posted...

I really enjoyed Distance Over Time, probably top three DT albums for me.

yeah that was a good one. I love Mangini but the band pumped out albums in a way that didnt work out.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

I've heard they got better once Mangini found his voice.

Only listened to Dramatic Turn of Events, and that one was easily disposable to me.

I feel like the best way to look at it is that the band tends to excel when they share the writing. Petrucci is godly but really needed to let the band do more. No surprise They made a choice to allow everyone to have a song on DoT and its great. If you want good Mangini then check out Pale Blue Dot.

if you want their best band effort post Portnoy then check out At Wits End.

While the topic is still open...

1. Learning to Live
2. Pull Me Under
3. Metropolis
4. Surrounded
5. Under a Glass Moon
6. Another Day
7. Wait for Sleep
8. Take the Time