Poll of the Day > So what exactly would be the issue in just giving people free housing?

(+) Yeah! (+)

There are less than a million homeless people in America.

There are 18 million vacant homes.

Literally what would be the issue? Most of those 18 million houses have probably been foreclosed for over a decade so it's not like anyone would be losing out on any money.

What's the issue? Jobs, my friend, jobs. The biggest majority of homeless people can't find jobs because of the economy and not only that but there's a shitload of homeless people who are also junkies and still draw a disability check and use it to support their dope habit which is why they're homeless.


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While this would work for the 'down on your luck' homeless people who just need a place to stay while turning things around... A good fraction of homeless people don't simply need a home. They need care as well because they can't function in a home independently.

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Molitheus posted...

What's the issue? Jobs, my friend, jobs. The biggest majority of homeless people can't find jobs because of the economy and not only that but there's a shitload of homeless people who are also junkies and still draw a disability check and use it to support their dope habit which is why they're homeless.

I don't think your explanation addresses the question in the least.

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Clench281 posted...

I don't think your explanation addresses the question in the least.

Maybe so but my statement points out a bigger problem in America...poverty. Eliminate that and it will solve a lot of these problems.

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Yeah getting housing is only part of the problem, many also need extensive mental healthcare. Also the general attitudes in America are either "I don't want to waste resources on addicts" or "I want them to get help but I don't want to pay for it".

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Because if people get free tiny studio apartments, they totally don't have any incentive to work and move up.

It's not just homeless people, the housing crisis needs to be fixed so you don't have 40+% of americans barely squeeking by due to the cost of rent or mortgages etc. There is no reason for such extreme costs at all.

If people could actually spend a decent portion of their money on things they like, food, entertainment, travel etc, everyone would be more motivated to work, and you would have less homeless people right there (cause for some it's just not worth working 40+ hours a week to barely scrape by, renting a crappy place and eating cheap food).

Just giving the homes to the homeless really wouldn't work, how about all those MANY millions who are working and barely keeping a roof over their head, why do they get shafted? There are certainly not enough free homes to give everyone of them housing as well.

No, the only real solution is to ensure affordable housing is available everywhere in America, within the next few years, reducing the average cost to rent (er median cost actualy) from $1050 a month (insane considering that is low in many city like areas now), to about half of that ($600). That is FAR more important that raising the min wage (although the fed min wage should be raised as well at least to $10, but probably to 12$).

With at LEAST $10 min an hour, and $600 for a 1 bedroom, people would be able to pay rent with 60 hours of work (a bit more due to taxes actually, so about 80) per month. That is STILL half of what they make basically per month, but at least it leaves them with 50% for other stuff.

The fact that there are actually places with $7.50 min wage (and quite a few jobs paying that) AND over $1000 rent for a 1 bedroom is insane. It literally means 75% of the income you make from work goes just to rent (or possible more).

So no, don't give away the homes, create goverment housing that is cheap and available (alot of it), to drive down the prices of the other homes, create tax incentives for renting property at a lower rate as well (Based on number of bedrooms if you rent the property under X amount per month you get reduced taxes you need to pay that at least compensate for that difference).

IF we solve the housing problem, then we can start moving on to other things like fair pay etc (although again, this needs to be a universal increase for anyone making less than $30/hr and or $60k per year).

Once both of those have been solved, then we can start on building our infrastructure, increasing public transportation, building more hospitals and schools etc.

But even under Biden I doubt much of that will actually happen.

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Its against the financial interests of a lot of people who's money is tied into real estate.

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a large portion also have some mental problem which is how they became homeless in the first place

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Clench281 posted...

While this would work for the 'down on your luck' homeless people who just need a place to stay while turning things around... A good fraction of homeless people don't simply need a home. They need care as well because they can't function in a home independently.

iirc, finland did a pilot of this by giving homeless people a small apartment, a basic income, and access to job training and counseling. most of the people were able to reintegrate into society

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Molitheus posted...

What's the issue? Jobs, my friend, jobs. The biggest majority of homeless people can't find jobs because of the economy and not only that but there's a shitload of homeless people who are also junkies and still draw a disability check and use it to support their dope habit which is why they're homeless.

None of that had anything to do with free housing.

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Most homeless people are homeless because of mental health and drug related problems. This would solve nothing.

Not to mention how exactly do you think these houses would turn out in a few months? Id be surprised if the majority of them weren't covered in trash and vermin.

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nimby

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Watch that movie with jamie foxx and RDJ and see how giving him an apartment turned out for him

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Houses, and upkeeping them, cost money.
If you give someone a house for free chances are, they won't truly appreciate it, they won't maintain it. Now you have a bunch of repairs, and cleaning, that need to be done and no one to pay for it.

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Clench281 posted...

I don't think your explanation addresses the question in the least.

Think its a question of how theyd pay their rent/mortgage/bills. Chances are theyd just end up homeless again if you dont address the root cause of the homelessness

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People in Japan don't even know what a homeless person is

they sell their houses cheaply so they can be re-model'd

most people historically worked until they died and never saved up any money unless they were in a relationship with someone


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RoboXgp89 posted...

People in Japan don't even know what a homeless person is

they sell their houses cheaply so they can be re-model'd

most people historically worked until they died and never saved up any money unless they were in a relationship with someone

what the fuck are you talking about

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Because the government would actually have to do something beneficial for its people.

Because giving homes to people would cause real estate prices to drop, which would lose investors money, and that can't happen under capitalism.

Kimbos_Egg posted...

Most homeless people are homeless because of mental health and drug related problems. This would solve nothing.

Having a home massively improves one's mental health.

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Its not free, somebody is paying for it, and that somebody is you, the tax payer. Youd end doubly paying for it since Id assume youd be waiving their property tax requirements too which means the rest of us will have to pick up the slack.

Secondly, giving people a home with no way of maintaining or any knowledge of how to maintain said home is just going to result in lots and lots of unlivable homes and then were back to square one.

A lot of homeless people in this country are homeless by choice. I live just outside the city with the third largest homeless population in the country. We have loads of homeless shelters which are running at below half capacity. There are dozens of different outreach programs that are available to help people out of homelessness by offering training and placements in jobs; Ive volunteered at a handful. The ones that are left quite simply choose to live as they do.

Hospy posted...

Its not free, somebody is paying for it, and that somebody is you, the tax payer. Youd end doubly paying for it since Id assume youd be waiving their property tax requirements too which means the rest of us will have to pick up the slack.

Oh no! Our tax dollars would go towards helping people for once! I'm vehemently against it! I want more of my tax dollars going towards drone striking innocent people in the middle east!

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Hospy posted...

Its not free, somebody is paying for it, and that somebody is you, the tax payer. Youd end doubly paying for it since Id assume youd be waiving their property tax requirements too which means the rest of us will have to pick up the slack.

Secondly, giving people a home with no way of maintaining or any knowledge of how to maintain said home is just going to result in lots and lots of unlivable homes and then were back to square one.

A lot of homeless people in this country are homeless by choice. I live just outside the city with the third largest homeless population in the country. We have loads of homeless shelters which are running at below half capacity. There are dozens of different outreach programs that are available to help people out of homelessness by offering training and placements in jobs; Ive volunteered at a handful. The ones that are left quite simply choose to live as they do.

You act like the infinite game of CoD our country is hosting is a better use of our tax dollars.

Why is it people like you lose their shit when people use tax money to assist our own downtrodden rather than wage more war?

Second, you act as though its impossible to make jobs to assist and monitor these people keep their homes up. It's not, they already have this system in place(section 8 housing).

Third a lot of these people aren't "choosing" to be homeless. They either have mental illness or drug addictions or are just genuinely afraid of going into shelters. Shelters aren't a safe haven paradise where everything is fine, its hell in those places.

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The response to this seems to be something like... it's a problem with multiple causes, so instead of taking on those causes at the same time (housing AND the drug epidemic AND debt AND mental health care) it's easier to just do nothing. Oh, and the housing market benefits from the existence of homeless people, so there's that, too.

But housing homeless people does work; it's already been proven in other countries.

Also it's pretty shitty of people to say that giving people housing is a bad idea when we're in the middle of a pandemic-induced eviction crisis.

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The real estate market is a way to exploit people into paying for overpriced cash grabs.

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In Calgary, a large percentage of homeless make $18/hr. The problem is there is no law against Filipino only roommate ads and affordable housing because the law is actually in favour of the landlord raising the rent every year, and none of them dont take advantage of that. Cant imagine its much different elsewhere.

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i'd have to upfront like 0.00001% of the cost.

Molitheus posted...

What's the issue? Jobs, my friend, jobs. The biggest majority of homeless people can't find jobs because of the economy and not only that but there's a shitload of homeless people who are also junkies and still draw a disability check and use it to support their dope habit which is why they're homeless.

I just came here to say this. It is for the most part, and there is a very good vast majority of homeless people are dope heads. We cant help them, if they wont help themselves first. With that being said however... there is section 8 housing to help the homeless. Can more be done? Absolutely! Will it ever be done? Probably not. Lets take San Francisco for example. SF is one big gigantic shit hole. I mean, you seriously got shit on the streets. Im not joking here.... homeless people actually do shit all over the god damn streets in SF. Keep in mind that place, and Cali have some of the largest homeless problems in the country. So naturally, SF has become one of these places and its just much worse though.

CaptainStrong posted...

Oh no! Our tax dollars would go towards helping people for once! I'm vehemently against it! I want more of my tax dollars going towards drone striking innocent people in the middle east!

EvilMegas posted...

You act like the infinite game of CoD our country is hosting is a better use of our tax dollars.

Why is it people like you lose their shit when people use tax money to assist our own downtrodden rather than wage more war?

Wow, all dude said was that it wasn't free to give people houses, that doesn't automatically make him in favor of endless war. If you were a rubber band you would have snapped from that stretch

The fact that there's no such thing as free houses?

THEGODDAMNBATMA posted...

There are less than a million homeless people in America.

THEGODDAMNBATMA posted...

There are 18 million vacant homes.

Literally what would be the issue? Most of those 18 million houses have probably been foreclosed for over a decade so it's not like anyone would be losing out on any money.

...lolwut? Every single one of those homes have an owner. And most of those homes haven't been "foreclosed for a decade" although, if they were foreclosed, that means somebody would still be living there since the foreclosure process includes eviction and the property can't change hands until the foreclosure is completed so the fact that they're foreclosed would keep the new owners from moving in, often because the previous owners can't be kicked out yet (ie, the house isn't empty either way).

However, in reality most of the 18 million aren't just houses sitting vacant for a decade, it's houses turning over. Depending on the circumstances (including procedures), banks can either work quickly or slowly. Foreclosed homes are very frequently sold while the previous owner is still living there, a fact that pops up in media (including an Always Sunny episode). In fact, some homes are auctioned without prospective buyers even being able to set foot inside them.

That's not getting into the fact that many homes are located in places without an abundance of public transit or nearby public services so they wouldn't exactly be great for somebody with no money in the first place. Not to mention the issue of PROPERTY TAXES.

RoboXgp89 posted...

People in Japan don't even know what a homeless person is

they sell their houses cheaply so they can be re-model'd

most people historically worked until they died and never saved up any money unless they were in a relationship with someone

Is that really bad poetry or is it supposed to mean something? While Japan's official homelessness rate is low -- something contradicted by non-profits who suggest that the country outright fabricates the number (which makes sense, given how expensive property can be in Japan) and aggressively tries to conceal its homeless population -- Japan literally has homeless people and the homeless appear in Japanese media, so anybody living in Japan would know what a homeless person is.

https://www.efe.com/efe/english/world/japan-s-hidden-poverty-exposed-as-homeless-people-crowd-night-streets/50000262-3725357

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EvilMegas posted...

You act like the infinite game of CoD our country is hosting is a better use of our tax dollars.

Why is it people like you lose their shit when people use tax money to assist our own downtrodden rather than wage more war?

Second, you act as though its impossible to make jobs to assist and monitor these people keep their homes up. It's not, they already have this system in place(section 8 housing).

Third a lot of these people aren't "choosing" to be homeless. They either have mental illness or drug addictions or are just genuinely afraid of going into shelters. Shelters aren't a safe haven paradise where everything is fine, its hell in those places.

most actually are. And most aren't afraid of going to shelters, most get kicked out or are afraid of getting kicked out.

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Would Religious housing work?

Besically, you don't pay property tax and just charge what would have been the property tax as rent to your clients... you still get NPO protection

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Kimbos_Egg posted...

most actually are. And most aren't afraid of going to shelters, most get kicked out or are afraid of getting kicked out.

Show me the stats on that, kimbo

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CaptainStrong posted...

Oh no! Our tax dollars would go towards helping people for once! I'm vehemently against it! I want more of my tax dollars going towards drone striking innocent people in the middle east!

EvilMegas posted...

You act like the infinite game of CoD our country is hosting is a better use of our tax dollars.

Why is it people like you lose their shit when people use tax money to assist our own downtrodden rather than wage more war?

Second, you act as though its impossible to make jobs to assist and monitor these people keep their homes up. It's not, they already have this system in place(section 8 housing).

Third a lot of these people aren't "choosing" to be homeless. They either have mental illness or drug addictions or are just genuinely afraid of going into shelters. Shelters aren't a safe haven paradise where everything is fine, its hell in those places.

I am also adamantly against American adventurism throughout the world. I am against throwing away American tax dollars on any wasteful spending because we are handing the next generation a truly staggering amount of debt that is not being addressed by any major political party or leadership.

Government spending on worthless jobs is little better than increasing welfare. The city near me paid tens of millions a year in cleaning up homeless camps because the homeless simply cannot be counted upon to clean up the places that they live. Imagine that problem but by placing them in buildings.

I agree that there are some people who are homeless who have simply fallen on hard times. The point is that there are many organizations and programs (whether government, private charities or religious groups) that assist such people in getting back to their feet and leaving the ranks of the homeless via homing programs, subsidized housing, and/or job training/placements. I've volunteered with many of these groups and yes, there are people who simply need a boost to get back on track. The problem is that many people look at this group and then assume that most or even all homeless people are like this, victims of circumstance that if simply given the opportunity to leave their current lifestyle that they would do so. This leads to the thinking that if only we had more resources or programs or people we can "solve" the problem of homelessness.

Many of them simply prefer the lifestyle that they have, without having to follow any rules and to live however they see fit.

EvilMegas posted...

Show me the stats on that, kimbo

www.google.com

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You start giving people housing, what next? Food? Clean water? Healthcare? An education? Where does it end?

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ForteEXE3850 posted...

hey, how come this person isn't on my fate friends list

Because communism

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Maybe just giving them some old decrepit shack that the government has ownership of, and let them work it out.

There's lots of homeless people that just don't care, and would still be the same methhead leeches whether they had a house or not. Maybe try to give people the absolute bare minimum, but don't waste money on people that will never try to better themselves.

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SirPikachu posted...

Maybe just giving them some old decrepit shack that the government has ownership of, and let them work it out.

don't even need to, there are entire apartment buildings that stand empty. could easily convert them into smaller rooms to fit more people

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CaptainStrong posted...

Because if people get free tiny studio apartments, they totally don't have any incentive to work and move up.

Yeah, they will just sit in that apartment and act like Kings in a castle.

Reminder that homelessness and poverty are necessary for capitalism to work.

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If ten thousand people need to live in squalor for me to fuel my third private jet, so be it!

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Zareth posted...

If ten thousand people need to live in squalor for me to fuel my third private jet, so be it!

If those people want a bunk bed in a dormitory and a daily plate of soy-rice-veggie stew, they better get to work carving more elaborate patterns onto the gold plating for my 4th private jet's jacuzzi!

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If they want it, they can squat in them.

One issue with all this virtue signaling, did they ask for your help? If they did want help, there are plenty of free services. If they didn't ask, can you force them to accept help against their wishes?
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Amuseum posted...

If they did want help, there are plenty of free services.

Not where I live, and I do live in the US.

Tried to go to the shelter, first come applied first dibs AND you basically had to have a job to get in as people with jobs got priority. Flat got told in no uncertain terms that we COULD try, but that we weren't getting in with no jobs. That the spaces filled far too fast for even all the people with jobs to get.

Could that have been a lie? Absolutely. Did it matter? Not really, they were the ones with the power.

Trust me, we looked. Where I live it's mostly people who managed to eek out something despite where I live adding additional (often ridiculous) steps that actually ultimately block out people who need help the most helping people who can't.

The poor help the poor around here way more than assistance programs do. We have people who have to rely on gathering cans to recycle or pecans to sell. I've been asked to walk with my child on the street to avoid stepping on someone's income. I've had people offer yard work for money. We have poor people passing around what bits they can spare far more often than people are managing to get assistance.

You know your town is weird when you go for assistance and they flat tell you that you should have come when you had money. Or your mom has cancer and applies for assistance so she doesn't have to work a physically demanding job on chemo and gets told her situation is too temporary and is denied!

I've told my friend how hard it is to get any help. They looked into it and was blown away by the extra steps people have to go through here that apparently they don't have to other places. Half the time the resources are a joke too, like the job placement assistance. They don't do shit.

We've ultimately wasted too much energy getting nowhere getting help, and learned it's sink or swim around here. It's little wonder houses are literally falling apart, unoccupied. And I mean literally, they fall apart until the city finally has them torn down, long after a point of return.