Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 184: Torn NATO

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.thedailybeast.com/us-officials-at-a-fucking-loss-over-latest-russia-sell-out

Its beyond disgraceful. Its fundamentally ignorant with regard to how we conduct diplomacy or what that means. It really puts in jeopardy the professional independence of diplomats anywhere in the world, if the consequence of their actions is going to be potentially being turned over to a foreign government, the U.S. diplomat told The Daily Beast.

To even hint that theres some element of credibility to Russian disruptions and distractions puts a bullseye on the back of any diplomat and invites authoritarian regimes to bully and threaten American public servants for the crime of doing their job. No administration should require a lesson or reminder in why this is reprehensible, Wade said.

The president has first and foremost his interests at the top of his mind, as opposed to the governments. Thats very clear over the past week and a half, between shitting on our NATO allies and kissing Putins ass, the diplomat said. He cares more about himself than the nation and any of us who serve it.

The diplomat continued: Either hes compromised by Putin or hes a pussy, in which case he should grab himself.

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The president has first and foremost his interests at the top of his mind, as opposed to the governments. Thats very clear over the past week and a half

Well, I guess it's better late than never to come to that realization.
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Part of the truth is that he believes his interests ARE Americas interests, because hes the President, and he sees that role as autocratic
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https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/18/politics/kfile-jason-lewis/index.html

This guy sounds like loads of fun
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LordoftheMorons posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/josephbernstein/lane-davis-ralph-retort-seattle4truth-alt-right

This is a FANTASTIC piece about a man who got so caught up in the online culture wars that he stabbed his father to death for being a leftist, and about the intellectual disconnect between the purveyors of conspiracy and their audience.

Need to finish reading this later. These online communities are pretty fucking scary.

There is a really amazing visual metaphor throughline of the piece. The writer does a great job contrasting the beautiful, welcoming neighborhood outdoors against the fact that the killer spent most of his time inside the dark, refuse-filled basement, and when he finally emerged into the light he was covered in blood.

Its a brilliant analogue to the entire idea of social isolation these hate-fueled young men have to force themselves into to allow their ideas to fester unchallenged
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What got me most is that psychological profile just screams Ulti and MWC.

Right on down to the "people familiar with them assumed there was a theatrical aspect to their behavior"
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Hey, guys, remember the military parade? We've got a date! (And a price tag)

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/18/politics/trump-military-parade-cost/index.html

Summary: Scheduled for November 10th (Day before Veteran's Day/4 days after midterms). Expected to cost $12 million. Sidebar: The "tremendously expensive" war games with South Korea that we're going to save "a fortune" on by cancelling was expected to cost $14 million.
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xp1337 posted...

Hey, guys, remember the military parade? We've got a date! (And a price tag)

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/18/politics/trump-military-parade-cost/index.html

Summary: Scheduled for November 10th (Day before Veteran's Day/4 days after midterms). Expected to cost $12 million. Sidebar: The "tremendously expensive" war games with South Korea that we're going to save "a fortune" on by cancelling was expected to cost $14 million.

This is some banana republic strongman compensating-for-something bullshit.
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If I were president I'd want a military parade too.

I'd invite every person in active duty, every veteran, and every fallen veteran's family. There would be no music, no weapons, no speeches, no combat vehicles. Just row after row of row of people, marching in silence.
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The diplomat continued: Either hes compromised by Putin or hes a pussy, in which case he should grab himself.

Hot damn
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"The parade, which is now scheduled to take place on November 10, is currently estimated to cost approximately $12 million, the officials said. One official called the number "a planning figure," saying cost estimates could still change as planning develops."

So actually it's probably going to cost more than 12 million because when do the estimated costs of something like this ever go down

xp1337 posted...

Scheduled for November 10th

Fuck Trump holding this bullshit on the Marine Corps Birthday!
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Man, this is such a bad look for Trump not even Rasmussen could polish this turd.

-15 approval index (between strongly approve vs. strongly disapprove) and 44% approval rating is his worst since March.
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What days does that cover?

I feel like depending on which ones it does could mean a bit different. Like Monday pretty much all reaction was negative, even from Fox. The walkback on Tuesday got some of the GOP back on script though with "I take him at his word!" So I wouldn't be surprised if there'd be a slight rebound on Tuesday v Monday, for example.

though this is quibbling it's probably only like 1 or 2%
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It's just the polling the posted for the 18th, which I assume was taken on the previous day.
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TheRock1525 posted...

Man, this is such a bad look for Trump not even Rasmussen could polish this turd.

-15 approval index (between strongly approve vs. strongly disapprove) and 44% approval rating is his worst since March.

Hey, he once polled 44% in Rasmussen and called it near 50%
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I believe he meant "nearn't 50%"

A double negative, you see
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Anyway, NYT has some stories out that definitely seem important.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/16/us/politics/trump-russia-indictment.html

The article itself covers the woman charged with acting as a foreign agent, but there's one particular paragraph in there that is eyebrow raising. It notes that in May 2016 she proposed a meeting between Trump and Putin. Kushner said nope, but Trump Jr. met her at an NRA-sponsored dinner. It also says Congress has a photograph of them together there. While eyebrow raising enough on its own, recall that the infamous Trump Tower meeting was June 9, 2016.

*thinking emoji*

It's a pretty interesting read in its entirety as well.

~~~

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/18/world/europe/trump-intelligence-russian-election-meddling-.html

Also, NYT broke that prior to the inauguration they briefed Trump on the interference and how Putin personally ordered it and that among the sources they have is a source so sensitive that Brennan (then CIA Director) declined to have it included in the Presidential Daily Briefing but instead had it delivered in a separate envelope to Obama and a handful of other national security people.

Headline is awful but again it's a really informative read IMO.
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StealThisSheen posted...

I believe he meant "nearn't 50%"

A double negative, you see

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZfB5TFHyq8" data-time="
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So do we all agree now that it was treason?

Still not?

Mmkay

https://twitter.com/TanookiKuribo/status/1019401947277905920?s=19
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Lol these Brian Kemp ads around here for Georgia governor are like parody.
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HaRRicH posted...

https://twitter.com/TanookiKuribo/status/1019401947277905920?s=19

That's a rt for sure
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"But what about Piccolo's emails?!"
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https://twitter.com/HoarseWisperer/status/1019970082812940289

Umm, guys...

Robert Mueller just submitted his list of evidence for the Paul Manafort trial and look whose name is all over the first 30 items.

Tad Devine.

Bernie Sanders' Chief Strategist. https://t.co/EmFMp7dTVB

The evidence lists Devine as having been in contact with Manafort in June 2014. He joined the Bernie campaign in November 2014.
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I have 0 doubt in my mind Bernie Jill and Gary recieved Russian aid.

They probably didn't actively collude (although all 3 had surrogates appear on RT)
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That...is not something I expected.
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Eddv posted...

I have 0 doubt in my mind Bernie Jill and Gary recieved Russian aid.

They probably didn't actively collude (although all 3 had surrogates appear on RT)

Were Evan and Hillary the only pure politicians of the 2016 election?
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Eddv posted...

I have 0 doubt in my mind Bernie Jill and Gary recieved Russian aid.

They probably didn't actively collude (although all 3 had surrogates appear on RT)

Stein was at Putin's table at that RT gala in 2015 along with Mike Flynn. I think there's a decent chance she did actively collude.

But yeah, the Russians were certainly trying to boost them at Hillary's expense whether they were in on it or not.
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I mean I am sure Hillary recieved unsavory support of some kind.
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Not the least bit surprising tbqh, we've long known about Russian targeting and propping up of fake Bernie groups (pretty well documented regarding Facebook). Given just how serious this election was for Russia it's only natural they'd at the very least attempt to infiltrate the campaign and have a guy on the inside.

Attacking Hillary from the left was no doubt a very crucial portion of Putin's calculation to disenfranchise her potential voters and take the election.
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Fair enough. I hope we're in agreement that Russian collusion is more than unsavory, however.

I'm not super surprised that Bernie received Russian aid, but i am surprised that his campaign may have actively sought it.
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in before robby mook shows up on one of these things
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I would still be quite surprised if Bernie was in on it. Iirc Devine was the one pushing him to stay in until the bitter end, though.
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Tad Devine also worked on Al Gore and John Kerrys Presidential campaigns, oh god theyve been planning to steal this from Hillary for 20 years /s
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The way things shook out online after the primaries, I'm 100% convinced Russia was pushing Bernie both before and after Hillary was officially nominated, and have been basically since the election.

95+% of the "Bernie or bust" crap was Russia and people who fell for the proapaganda.

If it comes out that Bernie's campaign actively sought Russian help instead of just unwittingly receiving it, I'll be super disappointed. Anybody involved in that needs to go.
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Tad Devine also worked on Al Gore and John Kerrys Presidential campaigns, oh god theyve been planning to steal this from Hillary for 20 years /s

https://www.macleans.ca/the-russian-spies-who-raised-us/
https://www.npr.org/2018/07/12/628085238/russian-influence-campaign-sought-to-exploit-americans-trust-in-local-news
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Reg posted...

The way things shook out online after the primaries, I'm 100% convinced Russia was pushing Bernie both before and after Hillary was officially nominated, and have been basically since the election.

95+% of the "Bernie or bust" crap was Russia and people who fell for the proapaganda.

If it comes out that Bernie's campaign actively sought Russian help instead of just unwittingly receiving it, I'll be super disappointed. Anybody involved in that needs to go.

Yeah this is more or less my view as well.
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GuessMyUserName posted...

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Tad Devine also worked on Al Gore and John Kerrys Presidential campaigns, oh god theyve been planning to steal this from Hillary for 20 years /s

https://www.macleans.ca/the-russian-spies-who-raised-us/
https://www.npr.org/2018/07/12/628085238/russian-influence-campaign-sought-to-exploit-americans-trust-in-local-news

(hell as far as 'totally legit group for the good guys turns out to be russian agents building up years of trust beforehand' goes -- wikileaks)
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As fast as this is blowing up, I'm also cautious to jump heavily on those connections at this time. For a very heavy, heavy Trump-Russia week, a huge upswell of "Bernie is bad too, look look" seems like a calculated strategy of distraction and dissent.

Tad Levine doesn't look good at all, and I can definitely see using the Sanders campaign to undermine the Clinton, but this feels like another shiny object, or the scumteam jumping on someone who's been very town all game and trying to get the votes and attention on him.
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I mean yeah we really have no idea what the listing means yet, so far all we know is communications with him are relevant to the case on Manafort

Basically everyone should clear their heads of what it could mean, and prepare and look forward to whatever information actually does come from it
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a better way to put it is this is basically an On Next Week's Episode... teaser promo

those teasers can be misleading so just wait for the episode!
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CelesMyUserName posted...

a better way to put it is this is basically an On Next Week's Episode... teaser promo

those teasers can be misleading so just wait for the episode!

Ha, that's actually a very good reality check
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https://twitter.com/sarahkendzior/status/1020006846982184965

Republicans block Democrat attempt to subpoena Trump interpreter - ABC News - via @ABC https://t.co/KaiNbOTw7W

When their is defiantly NO COLUSION
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Ehhhh I sort of agree with that.

This guy is a pro and the very nature of the communications he facilitated fits the very definitions of top secret classification.

Just leave him be.
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Mega Mana posted...

As fast as this is blowing up, I'm also cautious to jump heavily on those connections at this time. For a very heavy, heavy Trump-Russia week, a huge upswell of "Bernie is bad too, look look" seems like a calculated strategy of distraction and dissent.

Tad Levine doesn't look good at all, and I can definitely see using the Sanders campaign to undermine the Clinton, but this feels like another shiny object, or the scumteam jumping on someone who's been very town all game and trying to get the votes and attention on him.

I'm agreeing with this, but for two slightly different reasons right now.

1) There's little here that wasn't already obvious (see my previous post)
2) Bernie lost, so it's barely relevant to begin with except as a side story/footnote unless it comes out that Bernie himself is compromised.
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Yeah, I think that subpoena is a bit heavy-handed from a legal standpoint.
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Since we're all talking about this, I guess my take is that it's still unclear what exactly that means. Could just be Devine is intended as a witness against Manafort, could be more. The Mueller investigation doesn't really leak so I don't expect much more on this front, at least from them.

A bit hesitant to wade into some kind of involvement scale with all these people because, y'know, we don't have all the evidence in front of us, but my feelings for a long time have been along the lines of: I more or less expect Stein to be revealed to be involved/knowingly complicit but that's about it. I absolutely do think propaganda/misinformation was pushed to support Sanders because everything we've seen suggests there was a concerted effort to exacerbate existing divides in the public, and the Sanders/Clinton or Sanders/Democratic Party in general one would be a massive - and relevant/valuable - one to go for.

That said, I've never thought Sanders was knowingly involved and would be absolutely stunned if he were. I mostly extended this to his campaign staff as well but I'm willing to pause and see what happens there (staff/Devine, that is.)
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It's a fact that Russia pushed the Bernie-or-Bust narrative, but I think anybody jumping straight to "Bernie was in on it" because one dude, who worked at least 3 Democrat Presidential campaigns, had contact with one corrupt asshole, has suspect judgement.

It takes a lot more than that, and blatantly jumping to conclusions is how the narrative of "the left is making up this Russia stuff" sticks.
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Wouldn't you kindly
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