Lurker > transience

2-4's about making Matt suffer

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xyzzy

I haven't played it. to be honest, there are so many hard indie platformers that I don't go out of my way to find them. a lot of them are really lo-fi or don't really have a good sense of style or whatever. Celeste and N and VVVVVV and Ori and all those kinds of games all have a really strong musical score and a real strong look about them. for all the ones I like, there are a bunch, like Momodora or IWBTG or 1000 spikes or whatever that I just don't really like at all.

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xyzzy

I don't know why we insist on discussing cases that Anagram isn't even to yet. (3-3 is very good)

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xyzzy

yeah that's the kind of boss fight you'll get in Ori

ginso tree is all about teaching you how to use bash, and then at the end it gives you a final exam

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xyzzy

how'd the ginso tree escape go? that might be the highlight of the game.

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xyzzy

yeah that's it, but I think most people would find it pretty quickly during a standard playthrough, especially because the trigger pointing on that investigation day can be pretty obtuse

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xyzzy

2-3 being better than 2-4 in the anime is the biggest plot twist in PW history

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xyzzy

the single most dated reference in the series is in the third game

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xyzzy

nah, that would just show my bias more than anything. it'd end up having like 15 games on 360 and none on ps3, or 10 games on ps4 and none on xbox one.

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xyzzy

okay, I ran some numbers on my top 100 list. I ran them separately for top 100, top 50, top 25 and top 10 to see how they change depending on how much I like them.

by decade:

top 100: '10s - 47%, '00s - 30%, '90s - 18%, '80s - 5%
top 50: '10s - 52%, '00s - 30%, '90s - 14%, '80s - 4%
top 25: '10s - 36%, '00s - 32%, '90s - 24%, '80s - 8%
top 10: '10s - 30%, '00s - 30%, '90s - 30%, '80s - 10%

top 10 by decade ('80s only has 5):

80s:

7. tetris
15. mega man 2
54. zelda 1
79. mike tyson's punch out!!
87. dragon warrior

90s:

1. xenogears
4. super metroid
6. final fantasy 5
16. final fantasy tactics
20. chrono trigger
24. final fantasy
33. tactics ogre: let us cling together
51. final fantasy 6
57. street fighter 2
64. actraiser

00s:

5. metroid: zero mission
8. ace attorney 3
10. dragon quest 8
11. dragon warrior monsters
12. xenosaga 3
19. f-zero gx
22. cave story
25. mega man 9
29. ikaruga
31. shadow hearts

10s:

2. celeste
3. n++
9. ori and the blind forest
13. spelunky
14. zelda: breath of the wild
17. vvvvvv
18. am2r
21. xenoblade
23. desert golfing
26. outland

by region:

top 100: japan - 61%, not japan - 39%
top 50: japan - 58%, not japan - 42%
top 25: japan - 68%, not japan - 32%
top 100: japan - 60%, not japan - 40%

top genres (note: I changed mega man and games similar to them to platformers):

top 100: rpg - 26%, platformer - 13%, metroidvania - 9%, adventure - 9%, roguelike - 6%
top 50: rpg - 26%, platformer - 16%, metroidvania - 10%, adventure - 10%, roguelike - 8%
top 25: rpg - 32%, platformer - 20%, metroidvania - 16%, puzzle - 8%, six tied at 4%
top 10: rpg - 30%, metroidvania - 30%, platformer - 20%, adventure - 10%, puzzle - 10%

top developers:

(note: I list dragon quest as enix regardless of the square enix merger since they essentially operate separately and it keeps things neat within a series. monolithsoft is also listed separately from nintendo.)

top 100: nintendo - 12%, capcom - 12%, square - 10%, enix - 6%, atlus - 5%
top 50: square - 12%, capcom - 12%, nintendo - 10%, enix - 6%, four tied at 4%
top 25: square - 20%, nintendo - 16%, capcom - 12%, monolithsoft - 8%, enix - 8%
top 10: square - 20%, nintendo - 20%, 6 tied at 10%

I would love to do top gaming platforms but the data is a mess because of so many rereleases and, in later years, games coming out everywhere. I spent some time trying to clean it up but it's either dogmatically sticking to the first release of a game only or the later gens absolutely clean up. even if you were to exclude rereleases, the playstation and xbox platforms end up looking 90% the same anyway and clutter the leaderboard. also, the pc completely dominates for obvious reasons.

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xyzzy

Ori before bash and Ori after bash is like two different games. now you're into the good stuff.

just wait for the end here

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xyzzy

the dash actually wasn't in the original game. they added that after the fact in the definitive edition, along with some other features.

you're probably trying to get the double jump. the game really unlocks once you get that.

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xyzzy

Ori has a pretty clear direction, I would say. you don't get mega lost in it anyway. moreso than a Super Metroid.

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xyzzy

I'm honestly fine with calling Mega Man a platformer - I can go either way there. Mega Man certainly has a large platforming focus.

going down that path though - is Cave Story a platformer? I guess Bionic Commando would be despite lacking a jump button? what about Bleed or VVVVVV? I'm not sure where the dividing line is.

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xyzzy

I have about 10 games a year for 30+ years too. but, if I'm being honest, as time passes and I haven't played a game in 10 years, those feelings become more and more distant.

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xyzzy

that sounds like you!

I could take a list to 200 pretty easily (I've done it before) but I'd start including games that I only like in passing and not ones I think about on the regular. I don't love everything like you seem to

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xyzzy

WazzupGenius00 posted...

The Spelunky sacrifice/favor with Kali system is way less complicated than how much blood a body has. Each type of enemy/ally you can sacrifice is worth a specific number of points of favor, but are worth only half that amount if they are dead. Once you have eight points you get a gift, and at sixteen points you get the kapala (health restoration item). Damsels are worth eight, so you only need two of them sacrificed alive to get that item. Surprising you've only just learned about that one!

I always went for the +1 HP for damsels! I'd sacrifice things here and there but never enough to get a ton of favor. I didn't totally understand what it did and my focus was always 100% on survival.

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xyzzy

I played a few Dead Cells runs in early access and never went back. I want to go back someday but it wasn't really my kind of game. I don't really want a combat focused procedural metroidvania.

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xyzzy

I don't have that, but I do have the opposite!

Heroic Mario | Posted 8/17/2006 11:14:08 PM | message detail | #069
Idiotic nonsense. You're just trying to sugar-coat your inability to comprehend grander games like SotC with this contrived fanfiction! Super Mario Bros. is a representative of an ancient time, wherein games were nothing more than a child's plaything.

Hah!

It is clear to me that you are a simpleton who clearly does not appreciate grand art like Super Mario Bros.! The sophisticated design of the levels; the poetry spoken by the Mushroom Retainer at the end of every world; the flaming intensity between Mario and Bowser as they fight over a bridge of hellfire -- one desperating fighting for his life to prevent the Golden Key of Doom from being pulled; the other sweating under the intense heat to rescue his beloved girlfriend.

YOU KNOW NOT THE POWER AND COMPLEXITY OF MARIO!

You must have accidentally sniffed up the wrong armpit when you were crawling up one of those burly monsters! The foggy and open-ended world full of nothingness must have made you high! Shadow of the Colossus is a a monumental piece of trash, sir! You whippersnappers are all about treasuring these newly created games like they're good! I'll have you know that nothing that didn't come from the graceful hand of Nintendo is trash! Sony? More like the devil!

Come into the light, HM. It might be more comfortable in the cave of simple lies, but in the end you'll be better for it.

I have seen the light -- that glorious, glorious light -- and the person in that light was a plumber eating more spaghetti than any human being should dare see!

You -- philistine -- have yet to see this light. Don't worry, though, one day you'll recognize Super Mario Bros. as the most complex piece of work in the history of the world!!

Fear those colored overalls and large nose.

---
I havent invested as much time into any game as I have [Twilight Princess]. Shigeru Miyamoto

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xyzzy

yeah you guys were pathetic, and I say that as a guy who has 17 years of top games lists in spreadsheet format

for fun:

Heroic Mario | Posted 10/4/2006 10:21:26 PM | message detail | #058

1.) The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
2.) Metal Gear Solid
3.) Final Fantasy X
4.) The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
5.) Shadow of the Colossus
6.) Metroid Zero Mission
7.) Final Fantasy VII
8.) Super Mario Bros. 3
9.) Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
10.) Skies of Arcadia Legends
11.) The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker
12.) Super Mario World
13.) Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater
14.) The Legend of Zelda
15.) Tales of Symphonia
16.) Kingdom Hearts II
17.) Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
18.) Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty
19.) Chrono Trigger
20.) Super Mario 64

21.) Devil May Cry 3: Dantes Awakening
22.) Metroid Prime
23.) God of War
24.) Final Fantasy VIII
25.) Zelda II: Adventure of Link
26.) Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow
27.) Star Fox 64
28.) Mega Man X
29.) Yoshis Island
30.) Mega Man 2
31.) The Legend of Zelda: Majoras Mask
32.) Final Fantasy VI
33.) F-Zero
34.) Resident Evil 4
35.) The Legend of Zelda: Links Awakening
36.) Super Mario RPG
37.) Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddys Kong Quest
38.) Mega Man 3
39.) Mike Tysons Punch-Out!!
40.) Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time
41.) Mega Man X4
42.) Donkey Kong Country
43.) The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventures
44.) Pikmin
45.) Sonic Adventure 2 Battle
46.) Mega Man X2
47.) Super Smash Bros. Melee
48.) Tecmo Super Bowl
49.) Fire Emblem 7
50.) F-Zero X

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xyzzy

you know I'm good for this.

heroicmario 3/12/2018 7:41:56 PM

1 | Super Mario World (SNES)
2 | Super Mario 64 (N64)
3 | Dragon Quest V (DS)
4 | The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past (SNES)
5 | EarthBound (SNES)
6 | Mega Man 2 (NES)
7 | Chrono Trigger (SNES)
8 | Super Metroid (SNES)
9 | Donkey Kong Country (SNES)
10 | Attack of the Friday Monsters: A Tokyo Tale! (3DS)

11 | Super Mario Odyssey (Switch)
12 | Dragon Quest VII (3DS)
13 | Pokemon Red / Blue (GB)
14 | The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker (GC)
15 | Xenoblade Chronicles (Wii)
16 | Super Street Fighter II (SNES)
17 | Final Fantasy VI (SNES)
18 | Super Mario Kart (SNES)
19 | Puyo Puyo Tetris (Switch)
20 | Phoenix Wright (DS)

21 | Super Mario Bros. 3 (NES)
22 | Okami (PS2)
23 | Metroid Prime (GC)
24 | Ori and the Blind Forest (XONE)
25 | Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze (Wii U)
26 | The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild (Switch)
27 | Super Mario RPG (SNES)
28 | Luigis Mansion (GC)
29 | Punch-Out!! (NES)
30 | ICO (PS2)

31 | Yoshis Island (SNES)
32 | Super Mario Bros. (NES)
33 | Civilization V (PC)
34 | Secret of Mana (SNES)
35 | Dragon Quest (NES)
36 | Final Fantasy IV (DS)
37 | Castlevania III (NES)
38 | Shinobi III (GEN)
39 | Metal Gear Solid (PS1)
40 | Harvest Moon (SNES)

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xyzzy

nothing wrong with a list of 50 games then!

edit: although, I get the feeling that yours might be 6 FF games, 6 PW games and 4 Mario games.

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xyzzy

I would expect the bottom half of your list, if you made it, to be made up of classics that you like but not love. probably lots of Mario games and so-so FFs. maybe DKC1, something like that.

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xyzzy

I haven't played Cuphead yet. I'm sort of interested since everyone speaks highly of it but I've always been kinda down on it. the visual style actually does nothing for me.

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xyzzy

Lode Runner: The Legend Returns! I love that game a lot but it hasn't aged well over time.

2003: #4
2004: #8
2005: #10
2007: #15
2008: #24
2009: #23
2010: #45

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xyzzy

here's some silly fun. so, those of you that know me well know that I love stats of really useless things, so of course I have exhaustive cataloging of my old games lists. here are the games that have made every one of my lists since 2003 (actually early 2004, but I call it 2003 to make reading it easier).

https://i.imgur.com/49I4Q1S.png

check out ffx, which has dropped a few places every single year I've done this but yet somehow still sits in the top 50.

(if anyone for whatever stupid reason happens to have my 2012 list, please let me know! there are some weird archivers around here.)

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xyzzy

I don't know 2 well at all anymore. my biggest memory is that staff of thunder trick in Nintendo Power.

I did buy the mobile version when it came out though and got incredibly lost the second I got the ship. those NES games really sucked with giving the player the freedom to wander without a lot of direction.

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xyzzy

haha. yeah, my bad I guess.

bring it strong in a month! only the clique will be ready for the Real Deal.

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xyzzy

:)

here's my DQ takes in tiers

great: 8, 11
good: 3, 1, 4
okay: 6, 5
ehh: 7, 9
bad: 2


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xyzzy

heroicmario posted...

You changed some tiers on me, but here it is!

1) Chrono Trigger
2) Dragon Warrior Monsters
3) Hacknet
4) Monument Valley
5) Metroid Fusion
6) Slay the Spire
7) Persona 3 Portable
8) Final Fantasy 9
9Ace Attorney
10) N++
11) Binding of Isaac

my bad! I was doing this from memory and mixed up a game.

looks like it's your turn, old friend

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xyzzy

LordoftheMorons posted...

1. What is your favorite Dragon Quest monster
2. Have you played/do you have any thoughts on Shovel Knight? Kinda seems like it'd be up your alley, but maybe I'm wrong!

1. to fight against or to fight with? I'm a big fan of Goldgolem in DQM. as far as classic monsters go, I generally like the trolls and gigantes's and other impressively goofy monster animations. I didn't mention it but DQ8's monster animations really put it way over the top.
2. I don't like Shovel Knight! I backed the kickstarter and was really excited for it but I just did not like the gameplay very much. there was lots of instant death and the combat wasn't very fun. I remember an overreliance on the magic but it's been years since I looked at it.

Lolo_Guru posted...

Bonus bottom 10 (you've played)?

oh god, who knows. I've played a lot of bad old PC and NES games. Thousand Arms comes to mind as a game that I just hated with a passion back in the day.

when it comes to really popular games that I thought sucked, I've always gone with the 1-2 punch of FF8 and Mario 64. I also somewhat dislike (but not hate) Wind Waker, Mario Kart 64, Little Big Planet and most Sonic games. I guess this is the time where I say that I don't really like Dragon Quest 5 all that much either despite all the love for it amongst the fanbase.

Leonhart4 posted...

Also Babel Tower wasn't the worst Xenogears dungeon to me. It was the Shevat one.

this is correct (mostly because of Maria)

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xyzzy

I'm cool with Chrono Cross. it used to be in my top 50 back in the early 00s. I've been meaning to replay it for years. I used to really like it despite the kinda bad battle system. the story stuff never bothered me as I don't even really see it as a Chrono game and it has a good atmosphere.

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xyzzy

100. hacknet
99. braid
98. batman: arkham asylum
97. super meat boy
96. portal
95. world of goo
94. hollow knight
93. super mario world
92. mega man maker
91. ace attorney 2
90. zelda: majora's mask
89. xenoblade chronicles x

88. monument valley
87. dragon warrior
86. mega man 3
85. castlevania: dawn of sorrow
84. nier: automata
83. we love katamari
82. zelda: link to the past
81. lethal league
80. half-minute hero 2
79. mike tyson's punch out!!
78. god of war 2
77. wolfenstein 2: the new colossus
76. super smash bros ultimate

75. binding of isaac
74. final fantasy 7
73. super hexagon
72. crystalis
71. suikoden
70. ace attorney 5
69. etrian odyssey 5
68. dragon warrior monsters 2
67. crypt of the necrodancer
66. dragon quest 3
65. final fantasy 4
64. actraiser
63. shadow hearts 2

62. persona 4 golden
61. metroid fusion
60. mega man 11
59. castle crashers
58. ace attorney investigations 2
57. street fighter 2
56. shadow complex
55. persona 5
54. zelda 1
53. holedown

52. final fantasy 9
51. final fantasy 6
50. castlevania: portrait of ruin
49. final fantasy 10
48. bleed
47. brothers: a tale of two sons
46. geometry wars 2
45. inside

44. slay the spire
43. super mario odyssey
42. street fighter 4
41. ace attorney 6
40. life is strange
39. tales of maj'eyal
38. etrian odyssey 4
37. dicey dungeons
36. the messenger

35. ace attorney
34. banished
33. tactics ogre: let us cling together
32. bleed 2
31. shadow hearts
30. dragon quest 11
29. ikaruga

28. persona 3 portable
27. the walking dead
26. outland
25. mega man 9
24. final fantasy
23. desert golfing
22. cave story
21. xenoblade

20. chrono trigger
19. f-zero gx
18. am2r
17. vvvvvv
16. final fantasy tactics
15. mega man 2
14. zelda: breath of the wild
13. spelunky
12. xenosaga 3

11. dragon warrior monsters
10. dragon quest 8
8. ace attorney 3
9. ori and the blind forest
7. tetris
6. final fantasy 5
5. metroid: zero mission
4. super metroid

3. n++
2. celeste
1. xenogears

ask me anything

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xyzzy

1.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3Ui6a_E-Zs

1998
PS1

Xenogearss audiovisual elements are what elevates it above the rest for me. It has my favorite game soundtrack, sure, but the sound effects and also the best and it really enhances the story that it tells. Visually, I love the character designs and the overall look and feel of the locations. Xenogearss story is super ambitious and interesting but the sound and visual design of the game are what really makes it soar.

You put those elements together and it becomes the most nostalgic video game of all time. I look back with glassy eyes on Xenogears much more so than games that I played as a child, and thats been true for at least 15 years. This game has such a pull with me because of those treasured elements.

Honestly, I like the simple but effective gameplay in Xenogears but its almost inconsequential compared to the audiovisual elements. That also goes for most of the things you can complain about in this game. Yeah, Babel Tower is kind of nonsense but its pretty simple to get past and Omen plays there so its great. Some of the dungeon designs can be obtuse or monotonous but the story (which I think is fantastic) carries it through. The game is straight up unfinished and I dont even mind it that much because it still tells the story and lets you see all the great visual effects. Could it have been better with another 6 months of development time? Yeah, probably, but Im not sure if I would actually like it any more, weird as that is to say. I adore this game.

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xyzzy

CaptainOfCrush posted...

I certainly understand; I'm still quite obsessive about certain gaming accomplishments (900 Koroks in botw guy over here), but I'm not sure I have the stomach for thousands of failures.

I quit Smash Ultimate a couple weeks after launch because the community had evolved so much and I really didn't want to exert the effort needed to keep up. I went from winning like 80% of online games in Brawl to 20% in Ultimate.

yeah that's part of getting older and just not caring as much. it's why I question if I'd still like Street Fighter 4 - because even if it was still the biggest fighting game in the world, I'd still need to actually put in the reps to get good and stay good, and I'm just not in the mental space to dedicate myself to a game like that.

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xyzzy

yeah, I don't really like them at all. the same is true of hard Mega Man hacks -- no thanks, though there are a couple I've learned to like. I hate Metroid hacks too unless they're randomizers or just weird things like rotation hacks.

I don't like a 2d platformer just because it's hard -- I usually like a game for its movement or mechanics and then the difficulty makes me master those mechanics. That feeling of good movement with a challenging level design is my sweet spot.

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xyzzy

it's one of those things where I only do it because I love the game dearly. I wouldn't do it on just any old game.

though... I do have a bit of a fetish for really painfully hard 2d platformers, as you can probably tell. it's why Mario World just fails to move the needle for me at this point.

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xyzzy

it took me like 2 weeks and 4000 deaths. worth it! I want to go back one day and do it again because it felt like such a triumph when I finally beat it. I almost gave up 2 or 3 different times.

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xyzzy

nice timing. the bottom of this list is pretty much the top of mine!

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xyzzy

Kaxon, did you ever go back and play Farewell? I know you did the C's so you've got the skills to do Farewell, and it's so so good for someone who's gotten to that skill level.

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xyzzy

2.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iofYDsA2yqg

2018
PC, Switch, PS4, XB1

Celeste is ridiculously good. It does basic movement better than anything else around. Just the simple act of moving or maneuvering in mid air is a half step better than everything else on the market. You move just right, you jump just right. Theres lots of little quality of life hacks built into the game, like being able to jump a few frames after you walk off the edge of the platform or to ensure that you dont get stuck on the corner of a level, just to make the game feel that much better. Celeste is just better than other 2d movement games on a basic level. Its not just fair, its beyond fair. Its cheating on your behalf.

The other half of the equation, Celestes level design, is also extremely good. First of all, Celeste is pretty tough and thats a good thing because it forces you to master the controls. If the game ever gets too hard for you, theres built in cheats in the form of an excellently designed assist mode. Celeste goes out of its way to tell you that its okay to use these and to be proud of your death count, and it means it.

The theme of struggle ties gameplay and story together in a fairly powerful way. Celeste is a game about anxiety and overcoming struggle, both from a gameplay perspective and from the main characters perspective. Tying those two things together makes for a surprisingly powerful narrative. Very few people will say that Celeste has an amazing story on its own (unless they have crippling anxiety, of course) but when tied in to the struggles that the platforming offers, it works super well.

All of the window dressing in Celeste is great too. Celestes soundtrack is incredible and fits with the game so well. Each level has its own gameplay theme and almost all of them are great to play with. (The moving clouds in the hotel kinda suck, but otherwise, its all good.) The game does optional content right, with a main game thats hard but fair while also remixing stages and upping the difficulty to ludicrous levels for the most dedicated players. Celestes hardest content is among the hardest video game challenges Ive ever undertaken, and were probably the most rewarding I can think of when finally getting past them. Theyre also not for everyone, so Im glad that theyre sidelined off and clearly delineated as optional content for lunatics.

The cherry on top here are all the built in speed tricks that arent even hinted at in the main game. Theres the game that most people play and then the crazy hyper dashing that speed runners do (and people like me try to do and fail miserably). I think Celeste is the best speed game out there because this games skill ceiling is so incredibly high and the speed you can get to along with the games high difficulty is so thrilling to watch. Add in the music and the level design and this game is the GOAT platformer.

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xyzzy

all of you ZM superfans should absolutely play AM2R

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xyzzy

3.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFl3zU56-e0

2015
PS4, PC, XB1, Switch

N++ has no level scrolling, no items, no powerups and only three inputs. Its also incredibly precise thanks to the floatiest jump around. It might seem surprising that an amazing platformer has such a floaty jump, but that jump has so much nuance to it since the jump arc is dependent on your characters momentum. Youd think thered be a limited amount of ways to do it, but every level offers new opportunities to experiment based on slopes, speed and obstacles.

Speaking of levels, there are over 4,000 in the base game of N++, not to mention the level creator if you somehow run out or just want to play something silly and user-made. Ive never come close to beating all the base levels and I love the hell out of this game. That endless content plus the simple inputs means that I can put this down, come back and not have missed a beat.

As you'd expect with a game like this, N++ is also hard as all hell. This game beats you the hell up but the movement is so sublime that the end result feels mega rewarding when you pull it off. This game can put me into a trance from the amount of focus you need to nail a particularly nasty level.

I come back to this game for that exhilarating feeling all the time and its always a new experience because the levels are always changing. N++ feels like a roguelike because of the seemingly infinite content, except for the catch that every single level is actually authored. This isn't some procedural generation where they went and made a few tweaks and pushed the game out - every level is legit. And its so goddamn good.


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xyzzy

oh boy

time to rush #3 out to avoid this one!

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xyzzy

what I remember about VVVVVV's release is that everyone was ga-ga over Super Meat Boy that year while I was all the way in on VVVVVV as the year's cool 2d platformer. that was back when we would only get a couple of them a year that could break through the public consciousness.

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xyzzy

Zero Mission over Super Metroid for new players makes perfect sense. what Super Metroid brings that ZM doesn't is a stronger sense of atmosphere and a broader moveset. you can really fly in Super Metroid if you're good. you can also get bogged down in the controls if you're not. I get it both ways.

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xyzzy

the final three are a cut above.

100. hacknet
99. braid
98. batman: arkham asylum
97. super meat boy
96. portal
95. world of goo
94. hollow knight
93. super mario world
92. mega man maker
91. ace attorney 2
90. zelda: majora's mask
89. xenoblade chronicles x

88. monument valley
87. dragon warrior
86. mega man 3
85. castlevania: dawn of sorrow
84. nier: automata
83. we love katamari
82. zelda: link to the past
81. lethal league
80. half-minute hero 2
79. mike tyson's punch out!!
78. god of war 2
77. wolfenstein 2: the new colossus
76. super smash bros ultimate

75. binding of isaac
74. final fantasy 7
73. super hexagon
72. crystalis
71. suikoden
70. ace attorney 5
69. etrian odyssey 5
68. dragon warrior monsters 2
67. crypt of the necrodancer
66. dragon quest 3
65. final fantasy 4
64. actraiser
63. shadow hearts 2
62. persona 4 golden

61. metroid fusion
60. mega man 11
59. castle crashers
58. ace attorney investigations 2
57. street fighter 2
56. shadow complex
55. persona 5
54. zelda 1
53. holedown

52. final fantasy 9
51. final fantasy 6
50. castlevania: portrait of ruin
49. final fantasy 10
48. bleed
47. brothers: a tale of two sons
46. geometry wars 2
45. inside

44. slay the spire
43. super mario odyssey
42. street fighter 4
41. ace attorney 6
40. life is strange
39. tales of maj'eyal
38. etrian odyssey 4
37. dicey dungeons
36. the messenger

35. ace attorney
34. banished
33. tactics ogre: let us cling together
32. bleed 2
31. shadow hearts
30. dragon quest 11
29. ikaruga

28. persona 3 portable
27. the walking dead
26. outland
25. mega man 9
24. final fantasy
23. desert golfing
22. cave story
21. xenoblade

20. chrono trigger
19. f-zero gx
18. am2r
17. vvvvvv
16. final fantasy tactics
15. mega man 2
14. zelda: breath of the wild
13. spelunky
12. xenosaga 3

11. dragon warrior monsters
10. dragon quest 8
8. ace attorney 3
9. ori and the blind forest
7. tetris
6. final fantasy 5
5. metroid: zero mission
4. super metroid

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xyzzy

4.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsIBLOx12KU

1994
SNES

You could talk for a long time about Super Metroids strengths, how it was a genre changer for all sorts of reasons and how its one of the most influential games of all time. That all is obviously true.

What I found interesting when I played it for the 57th or whatever time last month is how truly weak you are in the early going. Samus straight up sucks. Your beam is pathetic and you cant take a lot of damage. Super Metroid doesnt really get truly fun until you get some beam upgrades and get the high jump.

Lets talk about that jump. Super Metroid has one of the great jumps in video games because you can cover so much ground in one leap and theres so much you can do with it. The physics are such that you can make it like 3-4 screens in a single jump once you get the speed booster and high jump, and I havent even mentioned things like the worlds best wall jump. Its the best around because of the floatiness of Samuss jump and the feeling of freedom that it gives you.

Super Metroids critical path feels more like a suggestion than anything. This game was made before the internet existed and everything had to be rigorously playtested. Theres no wall too high and no jump too far once you get good at this game. Super Metroid has a gigantic skill curve just because of how many possibilities you have at any given moment. The people who are truly great at this game just leave me in awe. Im good enough to play through the game effortlessly, but not *that* good.

The reason Im not great at it are the controls. Samus flies like a dream but your hands struggle to get her to do what you want. The game has a run button that just feels unnecessary. A good quality of life hack would be a version of the game that just holds the run button down for you at all times. It would help with trying to figure out how to run, jump and shoot with a single hand. You end up clawing your hand or remapping the controls in ways that dont feel natural. You can do it, and if you play this game a lot, you can get really damn good. But it could be less cumbersome.

There are so many ways to play this game. Theres the obvious any% and 100% routes, but theres also so many different kinds of hacks, from randomizers to rotation hacks to that weirdo LTTP/Super Metroid mashup. Super Metroids movement palette makes it so anything is possible. That above all else is why this game is an all-timer.

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xyzzy

I actually mailed a VHS tape to nate (m2k2/speed demos archive admin) so he could transcode it and post it to SDA. then he sold my DVD on m2k2's online store which I of course bought because who wouldn't do that? I really enjoyed those 15 minutes.

Team Rocket Elite posted...

I think I remember you mentioning that before. Was that the one where the runner saved the animals and still got a crazy good time (at the time)?

yeah. he took it from :36 to :32 and saved the animals.

there was also this one room where there was some weird video artifacting that made some people think it was a fake. it was the speed running equivalent of Mario vs. Crono.

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xyzzy

I remember that well! we were part of that same m2k2 community.

I did get a sort of unmentioned mention in a SS video once - I was part of the small group that tried to determine if hotarubi's super metroid any% run was legit. I'll never forget that internet fight.

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xyzzy