Board 8 > transience's top 100 games -- please insert disc 2.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Celeste is also annoying because the main game is really easy and then the b-sides and bonus chapters are insanely difficult.

Super Meat Boy did a much better job at gradual skillset progression imo.

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Celeste absolutely deserves to be up this high - all this time later I'm still blown away every time I pick it up. The overall game design is at a level that's really difficult to even discuss if you're not the type of optional content-chasing lunatic referenced in the write-up, but it's no exaggeration to call it head-and-shoulders above every single other entity in the 2D platforming genre. It really is that good.

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transience posted...

Kaxon, did you ever go back and play Farewell? I know you did the C's so you've got the skills to do Farewell, and it's so so good for someone who's gotten to that skill level.

I still need to finish it! I think I must have been getting pretty close to the end. Having so many tough screens in a row without really breaking them up with chapters or story breaks kind of wore me down. I need to see how it ends though.

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it took me like 2 weeks and 4000 deaths. worth it! I want to go back one day and do it again because it felt like such a triumph when I finally beat it. I almost gave up 2 or 3 different times.

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I don't think I can do that type of gaming anymore.

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transience posted...

I actually mailed a VHS tape to nate (m2k2/speed demos archive admin) so he could transcode it and post it to SDA. then he sold my DVD on m2k2's online store which I of course bought because who wouldn't do that? I really enjoyed those 15 minutes.

yeah. he took it from :36 to :32 and saved the animals.

there was also this one room where there was some weird video artifacting that made some people think it was a fake. it was the speed running equivalent of Mario vs. Crono.

Oh shit I kind of remember hearing about this controversy now, haha, your explanation rattled it loose in my head. I was never really a part of the SM community but I do have vague memories of this.

I didn't know you sent a VHS tape to nate lol. Man thinking about what speedrunning was like back then, before we had streaming, is a fucking trip. The early 00's were a FASCINATING time to be alive.

it's one of those things where I only do it because I love the game dearly. I wouldn't do it on just any old game.

though... I do have a bit of a fetish for really painfully hard 2d platformers, as you can probably tell. it's why Mario World just fails to move the needle for me at this point.

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Have you ever tried any of the super difficult Mario game hacks or Mario Maker fan levels? I guess there's more to a good level then just raw difficulty, though.
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I certainly understand; I'm still quite obsessive about certain gaming accomplishments (900 Koroks in botw guy over here), but I'm not sure I have the stomach for thousands of failures.

I quit Smash Ultimate a couple weeks after launch because the community had evolved so much and I really didn't want to exert the effort needed to keep up. I went from winning like 80% of online games in Brawl to 20% in Ultimate.

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yeah, I don't really like them at all. the same is true of hard Mega Man hacks -- no thanks, though there are a couple I've learned to like. I hate Metroid hacks too unless they're randomizers or just weird things like rotation hacks.

I don't like a 2d platformer just because it's hard -- I usually like a game for its movement or mechanics and then the difficulty makes me master those mechanics. That feeling of good movement with a challenging level design is my sweet spot.

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celeste is just a masterpiece


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CaptainOfCrush posted...

I certainly understand; I'm still quite obsessive about certain gaming accomplishments (900 Koroks in botw guy over here), but I'm not sure I have the stomach for thousands of failures.

I quit Smash Ultimate a couple weeks after launch because the community had evolved so much and I really didn't want to exert the effort needed to keep up. I went from winning like 80% of online games in Brawl to 20% in Ultimate.

yeah that's part of getting older and just not caring as much. it's why I question if I'd still like Street Fighter 4 - because even if it was still the biggest fighting game in the world, I'd still need to actually put in the reps to get good and stay good, and I'm just not in the mental space to dedicate myself to a game like that.

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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Celeste is also annoying because the main game is really easy and then the b-sides and bonus chapters are insanely difficult.

Super Meat Boy did a much better job at gradual skillset progression imo.

Celeste is terrific, but also I agree for this. Super Meat Boy had more ways to bounce around on your hardest levels available when you're stuck and there were just so many levels.

Also, I don't know how to really frame this conversation yet, but Super Meat Boy had you largely focusing on obstacles while Celeste had you largely focusing on powers. These have true similarities, but it's a different vibe of both character empowerment and allowing you to train on your skills. I don't think the golden feathers of Celeste made me better at other levels as much as Super Meat Boy riding out those magnetized lights for other levels, for example. You have to be good per level in Celeste in a more specific way than SMB, and while that's not some huge deal I think it's worth noting for conversations about their difficulty learning curves.

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Also, incoming Operation Shadow.

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HaRRicH posted...

Also, incoming Operation Shadow.

Time to strike then!

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1.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3Ui6a_E-Zs

1998
PS1

Xenogearss audiovisual elements are what elevates it above the rest for me. It has my favorite game soundtrack, sure, but the sound effects and also the best and it really enhances the story that it tells. Visually, I love the character designs and the overall look and feel of the locations. Xenogearss story is super ambitious and interesting but the sound and visual design of the game are what really makes it soar.

You put those elements together and it becomes the most nostalgic video game of all time. I look back with glassy eyes on Xenogears much more so than games that I played as a child, and thats been true for at least 15 years. This game has such a pull with me because of those treasured elements.

Honestly, I like the simple but effective gameplay in Xenogears but its almost inconsequential compared to the audiovisual elements. That also goes for most of the things you can complain about in this game. Yeah, Babel Tower is kind of nonsense but its pretty simple to get past and Omen plays there so its great. Some of the dungeon designs can be obtuse or monotonous but the story (which I think is fantastic) carries it through. The game is straight up unfinished and I dont even mind it that much because it still tells the story and lets you see all the great visual effects. Could it have been better with another 6 months of development time? Yeah, probably, but Im not sure if I would actually like it any more, weird as that is to say. I adore this game.

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100. hacknet
99. braid
98. batman: arkham asylum
97. super meat boy
96. portal
95. world of goo
94. hollow knight
93. super mario world
92. mega man maker
91. ace attorney 2
90. zelda: majora's mask
89. xenoblade chronicles x

88. monument valley
87. dragon warrior
86. mega man 3
85. castlevania: dawn of sorrow
84. nier: automata
83. we love katamari
82. zelda: link to the past
81. lethal league
80. half-minute hero 2
79. mike tyson's punch out!!
78. god of war 2
77. wolfenstein 2: the new colossus
76. super smash bros ultimate

75. binding of isaac
74. final fantasy 7
73. super hexagon
72. crystalis
71. suikoden
70. ace attorney 5
69. etrian odyssey 5
68. dragon warrior monsters 2
67. crypt of the necrodancer
66. dragon quest 3
65. final fantasy 4
64. actraiser
63. shadow hearts 2

62. persona 4 golden
61. metroid fusion
60. mega man 11
59. castle crashers
58. ace attorney investigations 2
57. street fighter 2
56. shadow complex
55. persona 5
54. zelda 1
53. holedown

52. final fantasy 9
51. final fantasy 6
50. castlevania: portrait of ruin
49. final fantasy 10
48. bleed
47. brothers: a tale of two sons
46. geometry wars 2
45. inside

44. slay the spire
43. super mario odyssey
42. street fighter 4
41. ace attorney 6
40. life is strange
39. tales of maj'eyal
38. etrian odyssey 4
37. dicey dungeons
36. the messenger

35. ace attorney
34. banished
33. tactics ogre: let us cling together
32. bleed 2
31. shadow hearts
30. dragon quest 11
29. ikaruga

28. persona 3 portable
27. the walking dead
26. outland
25. mega man 9
24. final fantasy
23. desert golfing
22. cave story
21. xenoblade

20. chrono trigger
19. f-zero gx
18. am2r
17. vvvvvv
16. final fantasy tactics
15. mega man 2
14. zelda: breath of the wild
13. spelunky
12. xenosaga 3

11. dragon warrior monsters
10. dragon quest 8
8. ace attorney 3
9. ori and the blind forest
7. tetris
6. final fantasy 5
5. metroid: zero mission
4. super metroid

3. n++
2. celeste
1. xenogears

ask me anything

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Yeah, I have zero interest in playing hacks or fan made stuff that's just crushingly difficult. It's why I've had no interest in the Mario Maker games or things like that.

And I was done with Smash Ultimate after a month or so. I keep telling myself I'll go back and finish World of Light one of these days, but it hasn't happened yet. I just don't have the time or energy to dedicate to getting great at any one game.

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Good #1

Do you also enjoy the other PSX audio-visual masterpiece with an overly ambitious story known as Chrono Cross??

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1. What is your favorite Dragon Quest monster
2. Have you played/do you have any thoughts on Shovel Knight? Kinda seems like it'd be up your alley, but maybe I'm wrong!

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transience posted...

ask me anything

Bonus bottom 10 (you've played)?

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Also Babel Tower wasn't the worst Xenogears dungeon to me. It was the Shevat one.

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I'm cool with Chrono Cross. it used to be in my top 50 back in the early 00s. I've been meaning to replay it for years. I used to really like it despite the kinda bad battle system. the story stuff never bothered me as I don't even really see it as a Chrono game and it has a good atmosphere.

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You changed some tiers on me, but here it is!

1) Chrono Trigger
2) Dragon Warrior Monsters
3) Hacknet
4) Monument Valley
5) Metroid Fusion
6) Slay the Spire
7) Persona 3 Portable
8) Final Fantasy 9
9Ace Attorney
10) N++
11) Binding of Isaac

LordoftheMorons posted...

1. What is your favorite Dragon Quest monster
2. Have you played/do you have any thoughts on Shovel Knight? Kinda seems like it'd be up your alley, but maybe I'm wrong!

1. to fight against or to fight with? I'm a big fan of Goldgolem in DQM. as far as classic monsters go, I generally like the trolls and gigantes's and other impressively goofy monster animations. I didn't mention it but DQ8's monster animations really put it way over the top.
2. I don't like Shovel Knight! I backed the kickstarter and was really excited for it but I just did not like the gameplay very much. there was lots of instant death and the combat wasn't very fun. I remember an overreliance on the magic but it's been years since I looked at it.

Lolo_Guru posted...

Bonus bottom 10 (you've played)?

oh god, who knows. I've played a lot of bad old PC and NES games. Thousand Arms comes to mind as a game that I just hated with a passion back in the day.

when it comes to really popular games that I thought sucked, I've always gone with the 1-2 punch of FF8 and Mario 64. I also somewhat dislike (but not hate) Wind Waker, Mario Kart 64, Little Big Planet and most Sonic games. I guess this is the time where I say that I don't really like Dragon Quest 5 all that much either despite all the love for it amongst the fanbase.

Leonhart4 posted...

Also Babel Tower wasn't the worst Xenogears dungeon to me. It was the Shevat one.

this is correct (mostly because of Maria)

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Mario Kart 64 and most 2-D Sonics are great! Even a couple of the 3-D ones!

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heroicmario posted...

You changed some tiers on me, but here it is!

1) Chrono Trigger
2) Dragon Warrior Monsters
3) Hacknet
4) Monument Valley
5) Metroid Fusion
6) Slay the Spire
7) Persona 3 Portable
8) Final Fantasy 9
9Ace Attorney
10) N++
11) Binding of Isaac

my bad! I was doing this from memory and mixed up a game.

looks like it's your turn, old friend

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transience posted...

when it comes to really popular games that I thought sucked, I've always gone with the 1-2 punch of FF8 and Mario 64. I also somewhat dislike (but not hate) Wind Waker, Mario Kart 64, Little Big Planet and most Sonic games. I guess this is the time where I say that I don't really like Dragon Quest 5 all that much either despite all the love for it amongst the fanbase.

I reacted to this.

:)

here's my DQ takes in tiers

great: 8, 11
good: 3, 1, 4
okay: 6, 5
ehh: 7, 9
bad: 2


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I would happily do the classic move of following you up, but have you seen what youve done to the this place at large? Haha. Are people truly ready to hear a take about the what a real deal means to a man called Rusty?

transience posted...

to fight against or to fight with? I'm a big fan of Goldgolem in DQM. as far as classic monsters go, I generally like the trolls and gigantes's and other impressively goofy monster animations. I didn't mention it but DQ8's monster animations really put it way over the top.
I don't like Shovel Knight! I backed the kickstarter and was really excited for it but I just did not like the gameplay very much. there was lots of instant death and the combat wasn't very fun. I remember an overreliance on the magic but it's been years since I looked at it.

I meant just overall, not necessarily to use (though that's an interesting question as well!) I'm not sure what the answer is for me, but I've always really liked Dracky (also since it popped into my head, my favorite new monster in DQ XI is definitely the Hat Hamwitch line).

I loved all of the Shovel Knight games as I played them, but I replayed the original a week or two ago after playing King of Cards and the movement did indeed feel pretty awkward; it might be worth it to see if the sequels feel any better to you! (particularly Specter of Torment and King of Cards)

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haha. yeah, my bad I guess.

bring it strong in a month! only the clique will be ready for the Real Deal.

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transience posted...

:)

here's my DQ takes in tiers

great: 8, 11
good: 3, 1, 4
okay: 6, 5
ehh: 7, 9
bad: 2

You know, this is okay, I think. My very unique and specific feelings about DQ7 aside, this is solid. Im always here for someone else extolling the virtues of DQ1.

transience posted...

:)

here's my DQ takes in tiers

great: 8, 11
good: 3, 1, 4
okay: 6, 5
ehh: 7, 9
bad: 2

Despite it being my second least favorite game in the series, I always feel like DQ2 is underrated. It's pretty fun!

Maybe it's that I naturally tend to grind in RPGs and don't mind looking at walkthroughs if I get lost.

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I don't know 2 well at all anymore. my biggest memory is that staff of thunder trick in Nintendo Power.

I did buy the mobile version when it came out though and got incredibly lost the second I got the ship. those NES games really sucked with giving the player the freedom to wander without a lot of direction.

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I guess I need to start working on my list when I get home tomorrow

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Leonhart4 posted...

I guess I need to start working on my list when I get home tomorrow

Im down for this.

I should get a list going.

I don't know if I've ever done a gaming list beyond my top 50 so 100 would be a challenge.

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here's some silly fun. so, those of you that know me well know that I love stats of really useless things, so of course I have exhaustive cataloging of my old games lists. here are the games that have made every one of my lists since 2003 (actually early 2004, but I call it 2003 to make reading it easier).

https://i.imgur.com/49I4Q1S.png

check out ffx, which has dropped a few places every single year I've done this but yet somehow still sits in the top 50.

(if anyone for whatever stupid reason happens to have my 2012 list, please let me know! there are some weird archivers around here.)

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Just wondering, what was your highest ranked game in 2003 that missed the cut on your 2020 list?
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Lode Runner: The Legend Returns! I love that game a lot but it hasn't aged well over time.

2003: #4
2004: #8
2005: #10
2007: #15
2008: #24
2009: #23
2010: #45

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I forget, did you ever play Cuphead?

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I haven't played Cuphead yet. I'm sort of interested since everyone speaks highly of it but I've always been kinda down on it. the visual style actually does nothing for me.

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I feel like my top 3 is pretty much unassailable for me and has been for like 15 years. I'm not sure how everything else would compare.

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I would expect the bottom half of your list, if you made it, to be made up of classics that you like but not love. probably lots of Mario games and so-so FFs. maybe DKC1, something like that.

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I'm sure I could come up with 100 games I really like a lot, but I probably wouldn't have much conviction about the order beyond...maybe the top 50 or so? They would all largely be interchangeable to an extent.

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Leonhart4 posted...

I feel like my top 3 is pretty much unassailable for me and has been for like 15 years. I'm not sure how everything else would compare.

I think thats probably true for me? At least it would be really hard for a new game to compete with the nostalgia I have for my top few games. Like I guess its theoretically possible that, say, a new Ace Attorney game comes out and is clearly the best in the series, and uses the current position of T&T to force its way into the top 5, but generally theres probably gonna be a bias there.

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nothing wrong with a list of 50 games then!

edit: although, I get the feeling that yours might be 6 FF games, 6 PW games and 4 Mario games.

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I also feel like I dont have much conviction about the order of my top games, to be honest!

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transience posted...

here's some silly fun. so, those of you that know me well know that I love stats of really useless things, so of course I have exhaustive cataloging of my old games lists. here are the games that have made every one of my lists since 2003 (actually early 2004, but I call it 2003 to make reading it easier).

https://i.imgur.com/49I4Q1S.png

check out ffx, which has dropped a few places every single year I've done this but yet somehow still sits in the top 50.

(if anyone for whatever stupid reason happens to have my 2012 list, please let me know! there are some weird archivers around here.)

Also, if someone has the last list *I* made, I would be down for seeing that as well!