Lurker > squexa

Reg posted...

I expected nothing and I was still impressed (in the worst way possible) that they spent the entire time on a game that's already out in the West lmao

Atlus makes no sense at all. They shadow drop P4G for PC with virtually no promotion, but then pull this s*** with Catherine.

And with P5 being by far their most popular game ever, of course we get nothing on Scramble.

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Wow they aren't even showing 13 sentinels?

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shane15 posted...

Well Sega and Atlus have a slot in an hours time and they only showed off Catherine from what i remember so there's no way they're just talking about Catherine for half hour.

It's probably going to be half Catherine and half 13 sentinels.

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Mac Arrowny posted...

So nothing from Atlus or Sega...?

I think that's referring to the Catherine trailer...

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Wow, I gotta say, TLoU2 has to be the single most divisive game I've seen in my life by far and it's weird as hell seeing it all unfold from the sidelines.

The battle lines are 4chan and tumblr absolutely loathing the game vs Resetera thinking it's game of the generation and it's surreal to see 4chan and tumblr agreeing on the same issue and cheering on the 3.4 Metacritic user score.

I still have to get through Xenoblade and the Pokemon DLC before getting to TLoU2, but man I'm really tempted to just drop all that and start TLoU2 just to see what all the hubbub's about..

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Mac Arrowny posted...

Guess you didn't know there was a deal with Elden Ring to show it at Microsoft shows?

Oh really? Hope we get something at the next Xbox Showcase then.

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MoogleKupo141 posted...

what would have whelmed you

Just more stuff that showcases the PS5's power and less cinematic trailers. All of these games shown look like they could run on PS4 or PS4 Pro.

And I was really hoping we'd get more info on Elden Ring and Starfield.

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Maybe it's just me, but I thought the show was fairly underwhelming like the PS4 launch lineup.

Probably won't pick one up until 2022 at the earliest.

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I would laugh so hard if P5 somehow comes to PC but not Switch.

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davidponte posted...

Oh shit I'm super into the live action stuff, even if it's really cheesy. Did 428 get given away for free on PS Plus? I feel like a few VN have.

Worth keeping an eye out for Death Come True, an FMV game from the Danganronpa guy that's coming out later this month.

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davidponte posted...

Horror in this genre sounds great, but I feel like I need at least a little bit of interactivity to keep me engaged.

You mentioned the gameplay in Ace Attorney getting streamlined in future installments. Does any of that include the issues I had with it? I didn't hate it, I just wanted more court and less banging my head against the wall at certain points. The story/characters are great, but I don't just want to watch a playthrough of it because, again, I need at least a little bit of interactivity.

Interactivity but without the puzzles thing might be a rare breed.

Maybe check out Ghost Trick? I haven't played that game in ages but I think the puzzles are more intuitive and it's directed by the same director as Ace Attorney as well.

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Lightning Strikes posted...

A bit disappointed Zero Time Dilemma got no points at all. The three are practically equals in my book.

Yeah, I really like that one too, but I already had 2 Uchikoshi games on my list and I didn't want to put in another one. Everyone seems to hate it though so I didn't have much expectation of it doing well.

Root Double -Before Crime * After Days- Xtend Edition - 6

Wow, I completely forgot that Root Double existed. One of the biggest mind**** VNs I can think of, although the pacing's all over the place.

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Can't say I'm too surprised by FFX at #1. I am surprised though by T&T absolutely LFFing the hell out of the other AA games to this extent. Which other AA games got votes?

Anyways, here's my top 10:
+10 80 Days
+9 Ever17: Out of Infinity
+8 Zero Escape: Virtue's Last Reward
+7 Braid
+6 To the Moon
+5 Portal
+4 Danganronpa 2: Goodbye Despair
+3 Firewatch
+2 Gyakuten Kenji 2
+1 Her Story

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Lightning Strikes posted...

I would not be surprised if Automata takes it all. I think they will both make it.

Edit: In no real order I think it will be:

Nier
Nier Automata
Final Fantasy X
Final Fantasy VII
Virtues Last Reward
Ace Attorney Trials and Tribulations
Metal Gear Solid 3
Silent Hill 2
Undertale
...and no idea on the last one!

Life is Strange is almost certainly top 10. Im not really that sure about Silent Hill 2, but definitely possible.

My predictions are here:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/78738429/940243276

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KamikazePotato posted...

Only the Top 10 remain! Feel free to do predictions and stuff.

I'd imagine these would make the top 10:

FFX (probably #1)
FFVII
PW:T&T
Nier
Nier: Automata
MGS3
Undertale
Zero Escape: VLR (I think, given how well 999 did)
Life is Strange

Not sure about the final one. Some possibilities off the top of my head:

Mainstream games - Baldur's Gate 2, God of War (2018), Silent Hill 2, Uncharted series ugh what else.
VNs, I think AA and Danganronpa are done. Maybe Higurashi? Although I'd expect it to be below Umineko. Zero Escape's just missing VLR, but maybe another Uchikoshi (one of the Infinites or AI) although top 10 seems a bit too high as well.
Indies - We have Edith Finch and Gone Home, but there's other possible walking simulators like Stanley Parable?

I guess we're also missing the David Cage games for what it's worth but I'm assuming and hoping we aren't going to get Heavy Rain into the top 10.

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If 999 can get 8 supporters, I can't see VLR not making it. Unless there's some really weird Uchikoshi LFF going on.

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+10 80 Days (didn't make it)
+6 To the Moon
+4 Danganronpa 2: Goodbye Despair (didn't make it)
+2 Gyakuten Kenji 2
+1 Her Story (didn't make it)

Expecting one more-ish.

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Advokaiser posted...

I have a question for those of you doing rankings...

Are you ranking the games' stories or the actual games as a whole?

Stories. There's probably only 1-2 games on my list that I would put on a top 10 games ever list.

But considering how much the board loves story based JRPGs and story based games in general, there's going to be a lot of overlap on the final list (FFX, FFVII, MGS3, AA3, etc).

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ctesjbuvf posted...

Also, this site is definitely less into Deus Ex than the average place, but a place that has it widely regarded as the best game of all time is probably a bigger outlier.

"Widely regarded as best game of all time" is probably a hyperbole, but any PC gaming site would usually have Deus Ex near the very, very top.

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Ugh, I love OoT but the time travel story is just a mess, especially the nonsensical ending.

iiicon posted...

I had it at +8! Oh what could have been.

80 Days sadly isn't a very GameFAQsy type of game


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iiicon posted...

80 Days =(

That was my +10...

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Kefka

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Mac Arrowny posted...

Nobody would vote for DGS if it were combined with DGS2. DGS2's last few cases suck.

Eh, I don't think either DGS games were that well received, but they have their niche of fans who like that specific Holmesian setting/style.

But I suspect T&T will LFF the field hard anyways.

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KamikazePotato posted...

Zero Time Dilemma has yet to receive a single point. I'm not super worried about it messing with LFF. DGS1/2 I'll keep in mind...if they get points which I also don't think they have.

Persona 3 + FES and the Higurashis will be combined, yes.

Ah, such is the sad fate of AA games without a translation. It doesn't help that AA is probably the series most affected by LFF too.

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KamikazePotato posted...

Submissions received from xNinjaOfChaosx and MrSmartGuy.

There's been some confusion in the PMs about which series of games are going to be grouped together and which aren't, which is valid because it's been really hard for me to pin down how to handle this. Right now I've settled on:

Grouping Together:
Trails in the Sky 1 + 2
Blazblue 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + Blazblue (as a whole)
Utawarerumono 1 + 2 + Utawarerumono (as a whole)
Umineko Question Arc + Umineko Answer Arc + Umineko (as a whole)
Persona 4 + Persona 4 Golden
Persona 5 + Persona 5 Royal

So if someone votes for 'Umineko Question Arc' and someone else voted for 'Umineko', in the final total, they'll be combined into one entity. If someone votes for multiple entrants in the 'series' at the same time, I'll just take the highest vote and ignore the rest. It gives a bit of an advantage to games like these, but I think it's more fair than the alternative. If an entrant makes the final list, I'll also give a breakdown of how people voted for each 'series'.

These entries will NOT be grouped together:
Metal Gear Solid games
Ace Attorney games
Life if Strange + 2 + Beyond the Storm
The Walking Dead Season 1 + 2 + 3
Trails in the Sky 3 (separate from 1 + 2, this was suggested to me by multiple people)

Their stories are much more self-contained (yes, even Metal Gear) and can have very different fans even within their general fanbase so I'm comfortable with splitting them up.

If you disagree with any of this, feel free to let me know! This isn't a precise science.

What's the metric for which games get grouped together? Some of the Ace Attorney subseries can probably merge, especially DGS1 and DGS2 which are part 1 and part 2 of a larger story. Though idk if either of them are getting any votes, since I'm not sure if the English fan translation of the games are out yet.

There's probably a case of merging at least some of the Zero Escape games as well, especially VLR and ZTD, since VLR is just the prologue of ZTD. Though people seem to hate ZTD so much that perhaps it's for the best to keep them separate.

And I'm assuming Persona 3 and Higurashi are getting the Persona 4/5 and Umineko treatment?

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KamikazePotato posted...

We're up to 29 submissions! Here's some random thoughts I've had while looking over all the lists:

"This person might have better taste than me."

"That's...a lot of RPGs."

"How have I not heard of half this guy's games?"

"No, don't nominate X! Nominate Y! X is totally LFFing Y."

"Has this person played more than ten games?"

"There's been a lot of people who correctly typed in every game's name. A surprise, but a welcome one."

"Heavy Rain? Again?"

"How does A have this much support?"

"How does B not have any support? I mean, I didn't vote for it either, but still."

Hm I thought my list was pretty basic when I made it but now I wonder how many even received a second vote lol.

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Ugh idk

Toripon (PC)?
Warzone 2100 (PC)?
Extreme Boards and Blades (PC)?

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Yeah its probably Zelda thanks to GotD.

Fun bonus question: What has more votals? FFXII or BotW?

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Actually, transcience's FF list looks ordered by votals so if FFVIII is already down to 160k, then Zelda has a good shot here. MM, TP and WW were all in GotD so the top 6 Zelda games should all have very inflated votals.

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So Zelda vs FF is the remaining mystery?

Team FF:
Final Fantasy VII
Final Fantasy X
Final Fantasy VI
Final Fantasy
Final Fantasy IX
Final Fantasy Tactics
Final Fantasy VIII
Final Fantasy IV
Final Fantasy XII
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance
Final Fantasy XV
Final Fantasy XIV Online: A Realm Reborn
Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII
Dissidia: Final Fantasy

Team Zelda:
Ocarina of Time
A Link to the Past
Majora's Mask
Twilight Princess
Wind Waker
Legend of Zelda
Link's Awakening
Breath of the Wild
A Link Between Worlds

Zelda's a lot more top heavy, but FF should still win just by having so many entrants.

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Fallout

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Tales, Half-Life, Paper Mario and God of War are potential top 25s as well?

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Isaac

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Paratroopa1 posted...

Ellen McLain as GLaDOS and I would need a damn good counterexample

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ZenOfThunder posted...

Damn, Witcher 3 is laying an absolute beatdown on GMG's polls. 74% on God of War, 82% on Bioshock Infinite and now 73% on Skyrim.

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Keltiq posted...

Nintendo has released five 2D Zeldas in the past fifteen years: Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks, Link Between Worlds, Triforce Heroes, and Link's Awakening. Admittedly that last one is a remake but it was still a big deal.

I think the idea is that while 2D platformers, sidescrollers and metroidvanias are still commonly being released (Hollow Knight, Ori, INSIDE, Celeste, etc) and have taken a life of their own, 2D top down Zeldalikes are not really a thing. Binding of Isaac is the closest successful one that I can think of and that's still pretty distinct from Zelda and you'd have to dig deep into obscure indie games like Oceanhorn to find 2D Zeldalikes. So while ALttP was a big seller back in the SNES days, this particular style of games seems to have lost favor today.

ALttP's main issue is that OoT completely overshadowed it in a way that Metroid Prime never did for Super Metroid or Super Mario 64/Galaxy/etc never did for the classic 2D Marios and I'm not really sure why. Despite Prime being considered a masterpiece like OoT, it never really diminished Super's supremacy within Metroid. Meanwhile, the modern Zelda fanbase treats ALttP like it treats the original LoZ: a title everyone respects but few particularly *loves*. Just go on r/zelda and see how far you have to scroll down to find any ALttP content.

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Yeah, people who grew up with the NES will obviously have nostalgia and love for it. But for people who didn't grow up with the system, most of them respect the NES sure, but how many of them truly *love* the NES? Most of the games have aged poorly.

The SNES has aged a lot better, but even then, some games just age better than others. Super Metroid and Chrono Trigger have aged especially well (which might explain their resurgence in 2015), while imo ALttP's always struck me as a game that aged badly at least relative to its peers. I don't think I've met many people who didn't grow up with ALttP be too impressed by it and ALttP's usually stuck fighting for 6th place with Skyward Sword on "best Zelda polls" on most non-boomer gaming sites.

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LinkMarioSamus posted...

I asked mostly because FFVI did worse against Wind Waker in 2015 than Majora's Mask did in 2010. However, pretty much everyone agrees that Wind Waker boosted between contests so that's moot I suppose.

Thing is, if you hold Majora's Mask, Metal Gear Solid 3, and Shadow of the Colossus all constant between 2010 and 2015, Super Mario Galaxy vs. Metal Gear Solid 1 becomes a debatable match. Something about that just does not sound right at all.

WW probably boosted and MM vs WW is a pure 3D Zelda SFF match, so I wouldn't draw too many conclusions from that.

Projecting through 2010 MGS3/SotC is a bad idea since SotC likely got a 2004 Starcraft style bandwagon, which probably messed up the stats in that whole division.

Leonhart4 posted...

R/B/Y is the only game other than OoT that has a realistic shot of winning a Game of the '90s contest.

CT has a shot at winning as well, since I'm not expecting rallies to be a big presence in a 90s game contest.

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I'd take FFVI with ~52%. I have a hard time seeing SM > FFVI.

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I still have my doubts about BotW, but this list looks mostly accurate.

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Yeah, I disagree with Nier being a bust. Only 27% of Guru had it beating HGSS so the fact that it got over 48% and outdid the Oracle is not a bust performance.

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2017 vs rest of 2010s combined

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2016 I think still edges out 2014 by a tiny bit, so I'd give it an F+ (lol). At the very least, FFXV managed to fend off the embarrassment of losing to Hollow Knight thanks to FFVII Remake, while DA:I straight up lost to Ori.

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I'm honestly surprised Tingle made it and not Skull Kid. Who the f*** was nominating Tingle into 3 contests?

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Wonder what happens if we held a character/games contest back in 2000.

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I dont know why I forgot about the Villains contest for #3. Both Ganon and Bowser had many rounds of blowing up fodder.

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RuFiOoo posted...

Loving this thread and your detailed yet entertaining analysis. Can't wait for 2017. Being new to this board, what the heck does SFF stand for??

SFF = Same Fanbase Factor. It's usually applied when two entities that have significant overlap (like two Nintendo games etc, two Final Fantasy characters) meet and the more dominant one overperforms on the weaker one.

Probably the most famous example is Link vs Ganondorf. Let's say a match between Link and Sephiroth happens and Link gets 66% on Sephiroth. Now let's say a match between Sephiroth and Alucard happens and Sephiroth gets 51%. Naturally, you expect Sephiroth and Alucard to be near equal in strength and if Link ever goes up against Alucard that he'll get around 66% on him, which would be fairly accurate in most situations.

Now imagine Sephiroth gets 51% on Ganondorf. Normally, without SFF, you'd expect Sephiroth and Ganondorf to be near equal in strength and that Link should get around 66% on Ganondorf as well. However, since Link and Ganondorf have significant overlap since they are from the same franchise, Link would probably get 80% on Ganondorf in a real match.


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transcience posted...

they do (I put that in the first post but maybe it wasnt clear)

So for the record, the 2005 Link vs Sephiroth, Link vs Cloud, Mario vs Sephiroth count, but the 2013 Link vs Snake doesn't right?

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Going to way overanalyze #1. Everything is based purely on my memory (which is not entirely accurate) so I could have some embarrassingly bad calculations here.

• Broadly, an argument for Link or Cloud would be that they missed 2005/2006, but the tournament of champions/bonus matches in both years + the sheer number of finals they've reached still keeps them in contention. Also not trivial is who made more matches between Link and Cloud. We know Link has a headstart because Cloud got eliminated in the quarterfinals in 2002, but because of Loser's bracket in 2018, Cloud should have an extra 2 (?) matches (Link faced Ganondorf, Pikachu, Cloud, Zelda, Cloud. Whereas Cloud faced Alucard, Crono, Link, Crono, Mario, Zelda, Link). Cloud should also have an extra match in 2003 when he eliminated Link in semis. In every other contest, they should have an equal number of matches since they beeline to the finals. Well, all except 2013 and I'm not sure who got eliminated first. I know Draven/Mewtwo/Sephiroth and Draven/Snake/Samus happened after Draven/Link/Shepard and I know Squirtle/Pikachu/Snake and Draven/Snake/Samus happened after Cloud/Squirtle/Leon(?). So it ultimately I think Cloud wins by 1?
• The argument for Sephiroth is villains (32 villains so there should be 5 matches) Sephiroth also made the main 2018 bracket, but that's misleading because he should have 4 matches (Wesker, Ryu, Ammy, someone else) in the main bracket but only 2 (Tifa, Mario) in the legends bracket because he got eliminated early, so the total 2018 number should be 1 more than Link. I think Sephiroth made it to the semis in 2013 after beating Kirby and lasted longer than Link/Cloud so he might gain 1 there. This gives Sephiroth a lead of 7 so far and the question is whether how much Link beats him in the other contests. Sephiroth has the same number of matches as Link in 2002/2003 combined and has 1 fewer match in 2005, 1 fewer match in 2010 and 2 fewer in 2006. I really can't 100% remember exactly when Seph exited in 2004/2007/2008, so the rest is a bit of guesswork. I think he made the semis in 2004 (where he lost to Cloud) and he definitely wasn't in the finals for 2008 (It was Snake/Link/Cloud/Crono I think). The big wildcard is 2007 since I can't remember if it was Snake or Sephiroth who was in finals with L-Block/Link/Cloud. I feel like its Snake who snuck by with Cloud/Seph LFF, so I'm going with Cloud > Link = Sephiroth (with Cloud winning by 1 match)
• Finally, the argument for Samus/Snake is that they actually made the 2005/2006 main bracket. 2005/2006 should have 64 entrants iirc, so there are 12 matches up for grabs total. Let's start with Samus. Iirc Samus made the finals both times (I think Mario vs Samus was the 2005 final but not 100% sure) but got eliminated first day in tournament of champions giving her 13 matches total in 2005/2006. She also made the finals in 2013, giving her a lead of 8 ahead of Link for 2005/2006/2013 combined. She should have 5 matches (Tifa, Mario, Tifa, Snake, Mario) in 2018, tied with Link and 2 fewer in 2010. Now, I can't remember exactly how well she did in 2002-2004, 2007-2008 but I don't think she even made the semis very many times if at all, so I think she's last place by a good amount.
• Snake made the finals in 2006 and went 4 days in the tournament of champions. I honestly can't remember how he did in 2005, but he was weak. So I think he was in around 13-14 matches in 2005/2006 combined? He also made the finals in 2013, giving him a lead of 8-9 ahead of Link for 2005/2006/2013 combined. Snake also had 4 matches in 2018 (Zelda, Auron, Sonic, Samus), which is 1 fewer than Link and 1 fewer than Link in 2010, but I think he made the final in 2007 and for sure in 2008. Like with Samus, I can't remember exactly how well Snake did in 2002-2004 but he was weak, weak, weak so I still think Link edges him out, but he's probably ahead of Samus.

In the end (based on my probably horribly wrong calculations) I think Cloud might have the most matches surprisingly.

Cloud > Link/Sephiroth > Snake > Samus.

Feel free to correct me on any of these points, since I probably missed a lot of stuff.

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transcience posted...

they do (I put that in the first post but maybe it wasnt clear)

Oh whoops, didn't read this carefully. Hmm, might have to rethink #1 and #13.

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