Lurker > legendary_zell

chrono625 posted...

Bro they can march and protest outside city hall. Not a privately gated community that you have to break the gates down to get through.

and when people said stop destroying their own neighborhoods it meant the communities within and it still didnt mean go out and destroy personal property either.

and Im not gonna defend these loons for pointing their guns but jfc with all the rioting and destruction that happened last month I understand people being on edge like this.

Do you really want to live in a society where our leaders (especially leaders that personally attack their constituents and put them at risk) are insulated from public pressure simply because they are rich enough to put up a barrier? I don't. And such a society isn't possible anyway. When people get mad enough, gates are irrelevant and that's inevitable. A gate is not some magical, sacred barrier and shouting private property can't insulate you from your actions.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

I distinctly remember many of you saying that protesters shouldn't target their own neighborhoods or destroy things randomly, they should target the people actually in power. So they go to the neighborhood of the Mayor who doxxed them. And now you guys are saying they should have guns pointed at them for doing so because "private property"? It almost seems like you guys are far more interested in order and making sure absolutely nothing is disrupted and no-one is uncomfortable and are willing to have that enforced at gunpoint.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

rahasperj posted...

Holy shit. What a good take. I've never thought about it like that. I don't think anyone can disagree with this.

It's not accurate because conservatism can also take us backward, not just stop us. And you can stop so hard you can break your neck on the dashboard as well. It also ignores that conservatism may not choose the right times to break and that other leftist groups could do that better than an ideology that always wants to go back to a mythical time when the social order was better.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

Nope. My only speeding ticket I've ever gotten was given to me after I, a young black male, pulled out of the dealership lot in a shiny new red car. I couldn't believe it even happened and just laughed all the way home. It was so stereotypical it became absurd and then funny. My whole family laughed too.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

ImAMarvel posted...

More on Constructing?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO6uD3c2qMo

It's discussed from 10:00-17:00 of this video by Philosophy Tube. The full name of the tactic is "Constructing the Public"

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

Jerry_Hellyeah posted...

But isnt the current narrative that the majority of people living in the United States are racist? Isnt that sole reason Idiot became president?

There's no need to make a hard assessment of how many individual Americans are individually racist. It's probably not even possible because 1) Open racism is largely socially unacceptable 2) People suck at recognizing and policing their own behaviors 3) When you combine these, people have a strong incentive to narrow the definition of racism and misinterpret it to avoid feeling bad about themselves and their community and to prevent others from thinking badly about themselves.

The systems and institutions that we have that were created by open white supremacists to maintain that system, are what led to this current moment, in combination with whatever personal racism some portion of the population holds internally. A functionally segregated housing system and education system, creating conflicting and mutually exclusive views of the world, 90% white Republican party bred on racial resentment, a voting system that's fragmented and that boosts the power of rural areas, all of these and many other related elements are what led to Donny as President. Race is a key key factor in that, as has been known since 2016:

https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/12/15/16781222/trump-racism-economic-anxiety-study

Don't rely on Vox if you don't want to, do your own research on the stated beliefs of people in this country and I don't think you'd be so hostile to the idea that Silent Majority=Run up the score among racially resentful white people.


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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

The people who coined and popularized the term literally admitted it. It's appealing to white racists who believe they are the majority. It's called Constructing.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

AlmightyCheeks posted...

So they dont want equality they want black supremacy. Blm is a joke

Which of these leads to or indicates a desire for black supremacy? Also, please define black supremacy.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

ufoivy posted...

They are paid for with Capitalism, Free Trade, and the American Military subsidizing their defense expenses. Shilling for Bernie Sanders and his Venezuelan Socialism snake oil does not equate to Scandinavian Nordic Model Social Democracy. If you want a Social Democrat youre closer to that with Beto ORourke and Mike Bloomberg.

Mike Bloomberg, Social Democrat. Now I've heard everything.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

Squall28 posted...

They're infeasible. I'm sure everyone wants free shit, but the cost to produce it isn't free. I'm sure you can balance the budget better though.

You can do a lot of things if you reevaluate what is valuable and what our goals even are. We don't have to simply shift around the budget, or think that "balancing" it is important. We could decide that everyone should have their needs met, and go from there.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

We really have reached the point of parody then. If they really do this, that's the end of all Apple products for me.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

Literally jackbooted thugs. Remember, the function of the police is maintaining social control. That means this is fully in character for them. It's the core of their job. Harassing poor people and minorities is just part of that. It's why they historically break up strikes, harass and kill activists, beat up protesters.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

GoodOlJr posted...

Both sides need to exist, checks and balances

There is no need for the modern GOP to exist, whatsoever. They don't do anything good for anyone other than the rich, and anything good they accidentally do like slightly lowering taxes for some regular people, is purely so they can justify lowering taxes on the rich and corporations by far more. The entire role of modern conservatism is to change white christian identity politics into tax cuts, lower regulations, and union busting. We could have debates about whether we want to go much further left in our society, but modern conservatism is not interested in having those debates. It's about halting progress by making progress a dirty word.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

Bad_Mojo posted...

And If I were to use the same logic to say something negative [but true] about the black men in this country I would be labeled a racist for doing the exact same thing you're doing, and I would be in agreement with you [saying I'm a racist for saying all black men are this because it happens a lot] because labeling an entire genre of people as X is a bunch of fucking bull shit.

Don't do it

You seem to be very eager to do that. You could just not, but it seems you insist. Maybe I'm forcing you to stereotype black people by posting factual information about people's actual beliefs?

You don't seem to have any type of grasp on context. You posting 13-50 stats is not the same and does not use the same logic as saying that many white people, or white people as a group (not an individual level) underestimate racism and white supremacy in America. You cannot seem to acknowledge how language works or the arguments that I'm explicitly actually making, you have to shift the argument to hypothetical arguments you would make in response to something I am explicitly not saying.

One is a factual statement that is one of the core problems of American history. The other is same thing, both sidesing and furthering one of the central bigoted narratives in American history. They are not the same, no matter how you shift things.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

Bad_Mojo posted...

Because of this topic title. You still think of certain people as a group and not as individuals.

Yes, there are many white racist in this country
Yes, there are many black men that beat women in this country

It's not all of them, so stop fucking saying it is

Some groups as a whole have well documented beliefs. It's not a conclusive statement about each and every white American to talk about what White Americans as a whole believe. Would you dispute take issue with someone saying that Americans love the Constitution, even though there hundreds of millions of Americans, some of which don't care about the Constitution?

This is a strawman argument. White people as a whole have different views on race than others and it's not an attack on all white people to say that.

https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2019/04/09/race-in-america-2019/

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

Because you can't rely on mass mobilization without also having mass organization and direct action, electoral movement building, alternative media etc. So the movement exploded and then slowly contracted like any movement would, was met with police presence, meant with disdain and caricatured by the media, etc. Mass mobilization has to lead to building durable power and durable organizations/alternate institutions are it'll be ignored, co-opted, and fizzle out.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

I think this might be the one that unites most parts of the political spectrum. Wilson is virulently hated by both the left and the right at this point.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

DevsBro posted...

I mean, it's true. Ask anybody why Covid is so bad and if you don't get some dumbassesery about it being a hoax or just the flu or some nonsense you'll get an instant rant about Trump.

I take back my earlier comment. Politicization isn't inherently bad and could actually be a great thing. This is a pandemic that disproportionately harms specific groups, harms the economy, and affects the country and the world as a whole. The response to it relies on politics, since politics is just the contest for power and resources between groups. Since it's inherently political, politics itself isn't the problem here, it's bad political decisions and leadership. That comes from a lot of places and people, but Trump and his party are chief among them. A leader is doing badly during a time of national crisis, in an election year. If that's not inherently political, what is? This is probably the among the most valid times to criticize Trump.


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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

All things are subsumed into the culture war. All things are part of the culture war. Not dying is part of the culture war.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

Crazyman93 posted...

You're trolling, and yet, most democrats would point to the response to COVID as proof you're right.

If cloth that can't even keep wind from getting through is an acceptable face covering, explain to me what the point of wear a mask at all is.

Dude, you are a Crazyman93.

DiegoSanchez206 posted...

Dont act like the DNC isnt corrupt lol. Two party system needs to be disbanded as a whole. Both parties are shit heads.

This is the type of person you're "both sides" ing with. Democrats, liberals, and leftists wear masks. People who have been mindwarped by a deadly form of identity/culture war politics don't.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

It's the same dynamic that's happening with Greg Abbott in Texas and the same dynamic that's defined the Republican Party since Goldwater. If they wear masks, they will be seen by their base as weak, alarmist, and giving into liberal pressure on the liberal disease and anti-freedom. They will be seen as doing what the hated experts and elites recommend. Taking a basic health measure is now a central fault in the culture war, as absolutely everything in this country becomes, and worst of all, is seen as a repudiation of Trump.

That is death among the Republican base, the people who will actually vote. Some absolute ghoul even crazier them will seize on that weakness, primary the mask wearers and win. So they can't be seen wearing masks. It starts from Trump and Pence on down. And then it goes from them to their constituents, and you get what's happening in Texas and Florida.

Crazyman93 posted...

You know the more this goes on the more that cost will add up. Not for the congressmen, those bastards make huge salaries for doing something that was envisioned as volunteer work, but everyone else.

Masks are cheap AF. The government could make their own and give them out for free or subsidize them. But I forgot, government is bad, and is bad at everything, and automatically makes everything worse, even carrying out fundamental responsibilities like responding to public health crises that cross borders.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

nativengine posted...

But here we go again, what about the American flag itself? Literally a symbol of genocide. Youre focusing on one point but ignoring another.

I'm not ignoring it. That's a 100% valid and accurate view if you're a Native American. That's what the whole talk about the Boomers was about. That view is an absolute non-starter for people now, but in the future it may not be. Just like thinking we should get rid of a statue of Columbus would have made you a radical even 15 years ago, but now it's flipped. Symbols have no inherent meaning, it's a battle of history and rhetoric. People consider the flag sacred now, but if it comes to be mainly identified with all of the unjustifiable things done in it's name, that will be very different.

What that will lead to, I don't know. We aren't at the end of history, and a lot of the things we're doing now or that we did in the recent past will come to be viewed as too shameful to be prideful in. For example, the Japanese Imperial flag was just "the flag" during the WW2 era and before, and now it's a symbol of right wing nationalism and imperialism that means something very different and very negative. That could happen here with the US flag or any number of symbols or monuments. And when they changed their flag, that didn't erase WW2. It was their education system and culture that erased it if it has been erased. Same here.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

Lorenzo_2003 posted...

They dont want to put it in a closet, friend. They want to put it at the bottom of a lake, where no one can see it, let alone come to terms with the nuance of a young nations past.

I dont believe theyre actually interested in slaverys influence and contributions. Protesters are defacing or tearing down statues and memorials that honor abolitionists and black soldiers, for example, as well as a recent statue that was paid for by freed slaves.

Post an example of a community coming to terms with a dark past through a monument or statue of the person that made the past dark. Then compare that to how often the dark past is unironically glorified. Then maybe you can see why people are done with these false narratives. People would have been fine with just putting them in a museum if gatekeepers had been willing to see reason. Instead, they screamed bloody murder about heritage concerning statutes that were put up by the KKK in the 60s, or stalled. Now people are fed up.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

That's literally what the Southern governors and mayors used to do during the Civil Rights movement, They published the names and addresses of activists and people on the membership rolls of civil rights organizations, hoping to get them lynched. These are quite literally old school KKK tactics. She should resign effective her conception.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

nativengine posted...

You lost me at boomers. Natives dont disrespect our elders, we look to them for guidance and understanding. They fought for treaties peacefully. Its the young and angry natives we dont agree with.

I'm not talking about Native boomers, I'm talking about non-native ones. The ones who were taught that the Confederacy was their heritage and that the Civil War wasn't about slavery and many other bigotry producing lies. Think the people who are being born from now to 20 years from now might have a chance when they take power.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

nativengine posted...

So I ask all you bleeding hearts.

What do you think it means to Native Americans to see the American flag? A confederate flag? A statue of welp, just about any glorified American hero, be it northern or southern? Youre all so fucking quick to bring up slavery but so god damn quick to ignore what happened before during and after to the natives here.

Every single piece of American symbolism is offensive to Native Americans.

But all of these are the country itself. That's one major difference. And you do see people currently tearing down statutes of Christopher Columbus etc. People are already working on the periphery. To work on the core of the American symbols is gonna take an entirely different mindset and different population. It's not going to happen while the Boomers are still walking this earth, but eventually, I think you'll see that too. And it's a great example of why your approach doesn't work. We have Andrew Jackson on our $20 bills and that hasn't taught anyone a damn thing about his butchery of Native Americans. A true, lively debate about taking him off and replacing him with a Native American would be far more educational as we've seen with the Colston statue in the UK.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

nativengine posted...

Nazi Germany took all those symbols down and here you are still talking about them. Seems to me taking them down didnt do any good now did it. Maybe we should take a different approach since tearing them down hasnt helped.

Leave them up, give us a symbol to shit on.

They didn't have a burgeoning Neo-Nazi movement that sprung up and gained significant power afterwards because they killed Nazism dead after they snapped out of it. There is absolutely no glorification about, apologists for or romanticism about Nazism there like we have about the Confederacy here. Because they handled it correctly. This whole country is still paying for the fact that we didn't handle the Confederacy the correct way. It should be absolutely unthinkable to be associated with the Confederacy in any way, shape, or form in polite society, just like with Nazism. Instead, there's Confederate flags in state flags and people wear them on their clothing in public.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

nativengine posted...

As they should be. Leave them up so we can look at them and say, this is how fucked up it once was but look how far weve come. Tearing it down just give us an opportunity to ignore and forget.

That's exactly what we do right now! Statues, monuments, etc are doing a piss poor job of teaching history because that's not what they are or were ever for. They're for glorifying a specific vision of history or intimidation. We have the statutes up right now, and people have no idea about what the confederacy actually stood for, or what its officials actually did.

If you ask them, people will still tell you that Robert E. Lee was a genteel southern tactical mastermind who had no hate in his heart, but just could bear to fight against Virginia. The statue wont tell you that he fought against the United States on behalf of a slave society built entirely upon virulent white supremacy that committed high treason against the US. Or that Lee himself was a slave owner that allowed his slaves to kidnap and sell free black people into slavery. Or that he thought white people got the bad end of slavery and that it was a great deal for black people.

They are no more than white supremacist reputation laundering. What we need is actual history to be taught, not late arriving memorials put up by open white supremacists. The monuments etc are not just neutral or irrelevant to teaching that history, they actively get in the way. They are also a horrific insult to every black person that has to walk by and see them, as they were intended to be so.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

nativengine posted...

And I will never agree with writing a new future by erasing the past. Our history is brutal and we shouldnt ignore it. Embrace, understand and accept. Erase? Fuck that, we shouldnt be allowed to just bury our dirty past, we need to accept it, not put it in a closet.

This never seems to mean actually doing anything about that past or its effects on the present. It just seems to mean leaving Confederate monuments up.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

He may just be one of those people that's completely insane politically, but at least he didn't screw up totally as a father if his daughter is clear eyed and independent enough to come out against his insanity.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

Restart the season tho

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

Lorenzo_2003 posted...

There is absolutely an obsession with racial identity in the US, at least. But it is debatable whether or not that is a good thing to focus on, as opposed to a pandemic or the failing economy, for example.

You know she's only talking about the people saying that racism is bad and trying to fix it and its effects, not the people flying confederate flags and wanting to MAGA. There is no need to separate those things and act like they're separate. It's fully possible to focus on both. Which is exactly what the people she's complaining about are doing and what people like Ron DeSantis are not doing.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

Why should people be obsessed with the social category that is one of the fundamental divides in our society that's existed since before the founding, caused a Civil War, and one of the biggest genocides in human history, and is currently causing disproportionate pain from both Covid and the economic crisis? Definitely completely unimportant and we should just ignore it, that'll make it go away? Talking about it keeps it alive, like Beetlejuice.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

https://youtu.be/Kbw6hF7tHns

https://youtu.be/nrjPzPc1JiY

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

John_Galt posted...

Sssh, let the cucks continue to be distracted with these things

This post makes no sense when your name is John Galt and you support that very transfer.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

The key is to not get complacent. We have to run up the score so badly that Trumpism and the Republican Party as a whole is regarded as a historical abomination. And then we have to not disarm the movements that have created this moment like we did when Obama was elected. We have the harass the FUCK out of Joe Biden, Pelosi, Schumer, our federal reps, our state reps, and our local reps, or replace them if they won't listen.

But none of this can happen unless we absolutely bury Trump and the Republicans in votes this November 3rd.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

I solved racism and people don't care. How sad.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

I don't think people recognize this in any meaningful way. A lot of people are exasperated at the idea that racism could still exist or get pissed when slavery or discrimination are brought up. It usually goes something like "that was a long time ago, stop whining" or "everyone is equal now, stop whining" or the like.

But that seems like a pretty glib reading of history. It doesn't account for just how deep racism and white supremacy was embedded from the start in the US. Let's be extremely generous and inaccurate and say all major forms of discrimination were eliminated in 1970. Regardless of when you start counting, (1619 or 1776) black people were enslaved longer than they've been free. With that generous total, freedom has existed for 50 years. From either 1619 or 1776 to 1865, the country was a literal slave society where the vast majority of black people were considered property, could not build any wealth or income, had to turn over all of their labor and income to their masters, and were subject to sale, rape, and murder. At one point, the Supreme Court ruled that NO black person could EVER be a citizen since black people weren't citizens in the minds of the Founders.

Next, once the slave state was abolished, black people were thrown out on their asses without a pot to piss in, and got none of the wealth they helped create over the previous few centuries. They were immediately confronted by sharecropping, debt peonage, laws that essentially criminalized existing while black or not working for a white person, the essential capture of governments by the KKK. The brief flowerings of actual democracy and growth were snuffed out by the KKK and the abandonment of black people to their fate by the government.

After that, you get Jim Crow, lynchings, more KKK, race riots, bombings, poll taxes, segregation, redlining, slums, restrictive covenants, racial zoning, police brutality, you name it. The country was STILL a brutal apartheid state as recently at the 60s.

Let's arrive at the present day and ignore that many of these same issues are still going on, let's just look at what people tend to agree on. That's anywhere from 244-351 years of non-stop oppression in a caste system reflected in essentially every facet of culture, government, economics, and politics. Let's compare that with 50 years of freedom (again fully ignoring what's still occurring) How long SHOULD it take to get over that? Considering that well within one lifetime, people personally experienced Jim Crow. My parents grew up during that time, and I'm sure many of yours did as well.

Why would anyone think, given all that, that racism is not still a significant force in people's lives, even if purely based on the effects of the actions of previous generations?

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

I get 10-15 of my strongest friends to rush him one at a time in order to let him know he's trespassing.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

Nope, dude was a pioneer of the Imperial, torturing, war of aggression starting, unaccountable Presidency that routinely shredded the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, and 14th amendments or defended the shredding of them.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

Anteaterking posted...

What is the benefit to backing his opponent exactly? You think his supporters will say "Golly, I guess I WILL support the establishment!" If Engel loses, you just welcome his challenger into the party. If he wins, you still look like you're loyal to people who stay in line.

I understand what you're saying and why they are doing it. They may even be right. It just doesn't match up with the moment or the facts on the ground though or where I believe the future of the party is going. It only makes sense as a matter of internal party politics which IS important, don't get me wrong. But I don't think it would be such a bad signal to have some internal consequences for losing touch with your district.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

Anteaterking posted...

They're not backing him because they think he'll win. They're backing him because he's the house chair of foreign affairs and you aren't going to get loyal party members if you back their primary opponents just because it looks like they'll lose.

Like you understand that endorsing isn't just "predicting who will win" right?

That's all well and good during normal circumstances. But during a pandemic, and associated economic crisis, and uprisings for racial and social justice, it doesn't make as much sense. You gotta read the room.

Doom_Art posted...

I mean if we're doing electoral analysis, the establishment wing of the party won congress 2 years ago.

While some notable progressives were elected in 2018, the House majority was not won because of them

This is true, but times were different back then. The forces driving that surge was impeachment/oversight of a President that would at least be in office 2 more years and residue of the Women's march etc. This is a time of anger and change. The focus is what they will do with a Democratic President and house, and possibly Senate, not just providing a check on Trump.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

Anteaterking posted...

Huh?

I'm saying these establishment Democrats are very bad at politics and consistently back the wrong horse and lose winnable races. And that it makes no sense to have them in office making bad policy if they're not even going to make good purely political decisions.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

Isn't the tradeoff for not actually solving problems, having any good ideas or vision supposed to be that these establishment types understand Washington and politics and know how to win?

I have to be frank....it doesn't seem like they do. This Tom Watson fellow surely doesn't.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

Antifar posted...

https://twitter.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1275606726226698241
:)

Get rekt, shrekt, nae nae'd, that ass whooped, BTFO etc.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

This is actually a great thing that's currently and in the future willing be used to discredit the very concept of racism and hate crimes by people who were already fine with the first and don't believe the second are ever real unless against a white person or police officer. It's already happening all across the internet including on this board.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

Wow, a lot of media that buddied it up with him is gonna look really bad after this. Even in his statements he appears to admit to groping women.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

monkmith posted...

there's this freakish half man half turtle in the legislature that refuses to do anything and blocks all efforts to hold him accountable.

funny you bring that up seeing that he was 'elected' against the will of the majority.

That's why we get rid of Trump, the Turtle, and the Electoral Colleges next time. That last one is probably impossible, but the other two aren't.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

I think we should be focusing on Trump deliberately furthering a pandemic that is killing people, destroying families, and putting millions out of work. He's openly admitting to doing these things, let's act accordingly.

We legitimately elected a Caligula/Nero figure. You're supposed to only get people this dangerous through incestuous hereditary monarchies or military coups, but we ELECTED this dude that's literally accelerating our deaths.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.

Right wingers on this board call every single hate crime a false flag or staged and bring up Jussie constantly, but when things like this with cops happen repeatedly, they berate anyone who doesn't immediately believe officers engaged in a PR war for their very institution when they say they've been poisoned.

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I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black.