Current Events > Slaves built America's greatest monuments

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/american-landmarks-that-were-built-by-slaves-2019-9%3famp

They didn't just pick cotton. When the alt-right brags about the accomplishments of Western Civilization. They need to make sure to remind themselves that the work and heavy lifting done to build these monuments and achieve these accomplishments were done by the Black slaves that the people despised hated and chastised so much.

There would be no America or great Western Civilization of the 19th, 20th and 21st century without the hard work blood sweat tears and craftsmanship of the slaves that helped build it

---

Most great monuments around the world were built by slaves. This isnt exclusive to America. Having these monuments built by slaves was a way to show dominance and victory.

---

nativengine posted...

Most great monuments around the world were built by slaves. This isnt exclusive to America. Having these monuments built by slaves was a way to show dominance and victory.

I say in this point in history we should show respect, honor and gratitude to the hard working hands that built a prosperous nation for us. We as a people need to work more on acknowledging it and less on running away from it and burying the history

Because in the end. There is One God the Most High and whether in this world or the next, he will show the evil doers who really is the Most Dominant and Victorious. Woe to the evil doers and the arrogant and the boastful. They are the losers but they perceive not

---

Black people but this country, but if you tell that to Republicans they deny that

2Pacavelli posted...

I say in this point in history we should show respect, honor and gratitude to the hard working hands that built a prosperous nation for us. We as a people need to work more on acknowledging it and less on running away from it and burying the history

Because in the end. There is One God the Most High and whether in this world or the next, he will show the evil doers who really is the Most Dominant and Victorious. Woe to the evil doers and the arrogant and the boastful. They are the losers but they perceive not

Is tearing down George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Ulysses S Grant statues running away from it and burying the history?

---

Zikten posted...

Black people but this country, but if you tell that to Republicans they deny that

Black people were sold as slaves by black people but if you tell them that they deny it

---

Tear them all down

---

Slaves!
Built the pyramids
Slaves!
Built the Parthenon
Slaves!
Built America!
Slaves!
This your song
Thank you
Slaves!
---

Of course we should remember who built them, which is why Im not a fan of them being destroyed. I look to the Statue of Liberty. A gift from the French, built by a melting pot of people who considered themselves American. Slavery and genocide are apart of our history and we shouldnt ignore or destroy that history. Less we want to continue it.

---

nativengine posted...

Of course we should remember who built them, which is why Im not a fan of them being destroyed. I look to the Statue of Liberty. A gift from the French, built by a melting pot of people who considered themselves American. Slavery and genocide are apart of our history and we shouldnt ignore or destroy that history. Less we want to continue it.

Stop making sense. Modern society doesnt have any

---

nativengine posted...

Of course we should remember who built them, which is why Im not a fan of them being destroyed. I look to the Statue of Liberty. A gift from the French, built by a melting pot of people who considered themselves American. Slavery and genocide are apart of our history and we shouldnt ignore or destroy that history. Less we want to continue it.

The statue also has chains around its feet. It was originally made to represent the female runaway slaves who were a guide for others on the underground railroad

AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

Is tearing down George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Ulysses S Grant statues running away from it and burying the history?

Some people see it that way. Others see it as writing a new future

I think the real solution is the USA setting aside some land and resources for the slave descendants to build a concise prosperous nation of their own. This way no one has to worry about any monuments coming down. Everyone can enjoy their own in peace. And from there the nations may learn to deal fairly with one another


---

2Pacavelli posted...

The statue also has chains around its feet. It was originally made to represent the female runaway slaves who were a guide for others on the underground railroad

and that changes it being built by a group of strangers how? You seem to want to view it in a negative light. When it should remain a symbol of what America can be.

---

And I will never agree with writing a new future by erasing the past. Our history is brutal and we shouldnt ignore it. Embrace, understand and accept. Erase? Fuck that, we shouldnt be allowed to just bury our dirty past, we need to accept it, not put it in a closet.

---

nativengine posted...

and that changes it being built by a group of strangers how? You seem to want to view it in a negative light. When it should remain a symbol of what America can be.

I don't view it in a negative light. I think it's a great statue actually. I was just shining light on that part of it's history

---

2Pacavelli posted...

I think the real solution is the USA setting aside some land and resources for the slave descendants to build a concise prosperous nation of their own. This way no one has to worry about any monuments coming down. Everyone can enjoy their own in peace. And from there the nations may learn to deal fairly with one another

So you want segregation? Youre idea is basically slave reservations.

---

nativengine posted...

And I will never agree with writing a new future by erasing the past. Our history is brutal and we shouldnt ignore it. Embrace, understand and accept. Erase? Fuck that, we shouldnt be allowed to just bury our dirty past, we need to accept it, not put it in a closet.

This never seems to mean actually doing anything about that past or its effects on the present. It just seems to mean leaving Confederate monuments up.

---

legendary_zell posted...

This never seems to mean actually doing anything about that past or its effects on the present. It just seems to mean leaving Confederate monuments up.

As they should be. Leave them up so we can look at them and say, this is how fucked up it once was but look how far weve come. Tearing it down just give us an opportunity to ignore and forget.

---

nativengine posted...

So you want segregation? Youre idea is basically slave reservations.

Segregation and Nationhood are two separate things

---

nativengine posted...

Most great monuments around the world were built by slaves.

No they weren't.

Bio1590 posted...

Built the pyramids

False. Iirc, all pyramid builders were paid workers and it was considered an honor.

Were the pyramids built by volunteers?

---

nativengine posted...

As they should be. Leave them up so we can look at them and say, this is how fucked up it once was but look how far weve come. Tearing it down just give us an opportunity to ignore and forget.

1) That might mean something if Confederate monuments were actually built during the Confederacy. They weren't. They were built many years after (some like 100 years after), specifically as a "fuck you" to black people.

2) It is blatantly clear that no one is learning shit from these.

3) You're essentially arguing that Germany should have left everything Nazi-related up.
---

RadiantAdolin posted...

False. Iirc, all pyramid builders were paid workers and it was considered an honor.

I know lol, I was posting the song >_>
---

Prismsblade posted...

Were the pyramids built by volunteers?

Yes actually

Bio1590 posted...

I know lol, I was posting the song >_>

Oh my bad >.>

Bio1590 posted...

1) That might mean something if Confederate monuments were actually built during the Confederacy. They weren't. They were built many years after (some like 100 years after), specifically as a "fuck you" to black people.

2) It is blatantly clear that no one is learning shit from these.

3) You're essentially arguing that Germany should have left everything Nazi-related up.

Nazi Germany took all those symbols down and here you are still talking about them. Seems to me taking them down didnt do any good now did it. Maybe we should take a different approach since tearing them down hasnt helped.

Leave them up, give us a symbol to shit on.

---

nativengine posted...

As they should be. Leave them up so we can look at them and say, this is how fucked up it once was but look how far weve come. Tearing it down just give us an opportunity to ignore and forget.

That's exactly what we do right now! Statues, monuments, etc are doing a piss poor job of teaching history because that's not what they are or were ever for. They're for glorifying a specific vision of history or intimidation. We have the statutes up right now, and people have no idea about what the confederacy actually stood for, or what its officials actually did.

If you ask them, people will still tell you that Robert E. Lee was a genteel southern tactical mastermind who had no hate in his heart, but just could bear to fight against Virginia. The statue wont tell you that he fought against the United States on behalf of a slave society built entirely upon virulent white supremacy that committed high treason against the US. Or that Lee himself was a slave owner that allowed his slaves to kidnap and sell free black people into slavery. Or that he thought white people got the bad end of slavery and that it was a great deal for black people.

They are no more than white supremacist reputation laundering. What we need is actual history to be taught, not late arriving memorials put up by open white supremacists. The monuments etc are not just neutral or irrelevant to teaching that history, they actively get in the way. They are also a horrific insult to every black person that has to walk by and see them, as they were intended to be so.

---

The amount of mental gymnastics ITT is making me sweat. Also, most of the confederate statues were built during or after the civil rights movement.
---

The mentality of a "conqueror" is the mentality of an overgrown child It's not something to be admired or aspired to

The works of a builder are way more valuable than the works of a conqueror in this life and the next.

Even now those who are in power are skilled in taking what does not belong to them even through legal loopholes. In the end the criminals will be judged harshly and pay a heavy price for what they took in this life and the next

I know a lot of people may think this is spooky but all if the current turmoil from Covid to the Riots are a small sign of things to come if we as a society dont repent and fully reform and pay what is owed to those that have been wrong both in this land and overseas.

Does anyone else feel it is not strange that the Coronavirus which supposedly started in China hit by far its hardest here in America? Everything that's happening are clear signs of what's to come in the future.

---

nativengine posted...

Nazi Germany took all those symbols down and here you are still talking about them. Seems to me taking them down didnt do any good now did it. Maybe we should take a different approach since tearing them down hasnt helped.

Leave them up, give us a symbol to shit on.

They didn't have a burgeoning Neo-Nazi movement that sprung up and gained significant power afterwards because they killed Nazism dead after they snapped out of it. There is absolutely no glorification about, apologists for or romanticism about Nazism there like we have about the Confederacy here. Because they handled it correctly. This whole country is still paying for the fact that we didn't handle the Confederacy the correct way. It should be absolutely unthinkable to be associated with the Confederacy in any way, shape, or form in polite society, just like with Nazism. Instead, there's Confederate flags in state flags and people wear them on their clothing in public.

---

So I ask all you bleeding hearts.

What do you think it means to Native Americans to see the American flag? A confederate flag? A statue of welp, just about any glorified American hero, be it northern or southern? Youre all so fucking quick to bring up slavery but so god damn quick to ignore what happened before during and after to the natives here.

Every single piece of American symbolism is offensive to Native Americans.

---

AlmightyCheeks posted...

Black people were sold as slaves by black people but if you tell them that they deny it

Whose bright idea was it to buy black people?

nativengine posted...

So I ask all you bleeding hearts.

What do you think it means to Native Americans to see the American flag? A confederate flag? A statue of welp, just about any glorified American hero, be it northern or southern? Youre all so fucking quick to bring up slavery but so god damn quick to ignore what happened before during and after to the natives here.

Every single piece of American symbolism is offensive to Native Americans.

But all of these are the country itself. That's one major difference. And you do see people currently tearing down statutes of Christopher Columbus etc. People are already working on the periphery. To work on the core of the American symbols is gonna take an entirely different mindset and different population. It's not going to happen while the Boomers are still walking this earth, but eventually, I think you'll see that too. And it's a great example of why your approach doesn't work. We have Andrew Jackson on our $20 bills and that hasn't taught anyone a damn thing about his butchery of Native Americans. A true, lively debate about taking him off and replacing him with a Native American would be far more educational as we've seen with the Colston statue in the UK.

---

Sure who do you think built the pyramids
---

GoodOlJr posted...

Sure who do you think built the pyramids

It was built mostly by peasants outside planting seasons, as well as skilled laborers, all payed and generally proud to work on them.

legendary_zell posted...

But all of these are the country itself. That's one major difference. And you do see people currently tearing down statutes of Christopher Columbus etc. People are already working on the periphery. To work on the core of the American symbols is gonna take an entirely different mindset and different population. It's not going to happen while the Boomers are still walking this earth, but eventually, I think you'll see that too. And it's a great example of why your approach doesn't work. We have Andrew Jackson on our $20 bills and that hasn't taught anyone a damn thing about his butchery of Native Americans. A true, lively debate about taking him off and replacing him with a Native American would be far more educational as we've seen with the Colston statue in the UK.

You lost me at boomers. Natives dont disrespect our elders, we look to them for guidance and understanding. They fought for treaties peacefully. Its the young and angry natives we dont agree with.

---

2Pacavelli posted...

I think the real solution is the USA setting aside some land and resources for the slave descendants to build a concise prosperous nation of their own. This way no one has to worry about any monuments coming down. Everyone can enjoy their own in peace. And from there the nations may learn to deal fairly with one another

Ugh, this shtick again?

nativengine posted...

You lost me at boomers. Natives dont disrespect our elders, we look to them for guidance and understanding. They fought for treaties peacefully. Its the young and angry natives we dont agree with.

I'm not talking about Native boomers, I'm talking about non-native ones. The ones who were taught that the Confederacy was their heritage and that the Civil War wasn't about slavery and many other bigotry producing lies. Think the people who are being born from now to 20 years from now might have a chance when they take power.

---

legendary_zell posted...

I'm not talking about Native boomers, I'm talking about non-native ones. The ones who were taught that the Confederacy was their heritage and that the Civil War wasn't about slavery and many other bigotry producing lies. Think the people who are being born from now to 20 years from now might have a chance when they take power.

You thought I was talking about Native boomers? LOL, bro thats not even a thing, we wouldnt call them boomers. I mean really? You think Id refer to my elders as boomers? My elders have a fucked up way of viewing things but we still listen to them, try to understand what theyre telling us. Distorted as it may be.

But come on, Native boomers?

---

nativengine posted...

Erase? Fuck that, we shouldnt be allowed to just bury our dirty past, we need to accept it, not put it in a closet.

They dont want to put it in a closet, friend. They want to put it at the bottom of a lake, where no one can see it, let alone come to terms with the nuance of a young nations past.

I dont believe theyre actually interested in slaverys influence and contributions. Protesters are defacing or tearing down statues and memorials that honor abolitionists and black soldiers, for example, as well as a recent statue that was paid for by freed slaves.

---

Lorenzo_2003 posted...

They dont want to put it in a closet, friend. They want to put it at the bottom of a lake, where no one can see it, let alone come to terms with the nuance of a young nations past.

I dont believe theyre actually interested in slaverys influence and contributions. Protesters are defacing or tearing down statues and memorials that honor abolitionists and black soldiers, for example, as well as a recent statue that was paid for by freed slaves.

Indeed, burning down your own neighborhood makes tons of sense. Ill make sure the next time they try to build a pipeline through a reservation Ill just destroy the reservation first.

---

Lorenzo_2003 posted...

They dont want to put it in a closet, friend. They want to put it at the bottom of a lake, where no one can see it, let alone come to terms with the nuance of a young nations past.

I dont believe theyre actually interested in slaverys influence and contributions. Protesters are defacing or tearing down statues and memorials that honor abolitionists and black soldiers, for example, as well as a recent statue that was paid for by freed slaves.

Post an example of a community coming to terms with a dark past through a monument or statue of the person that made the past dark. Then compare that to how often the dark past is unironically glorified. Then maybe you can see why people are done with these false narratives. People would have been fine with just putting them in a museum if gatekeepers had been willing to see reason. Instead, they screamed bloody murder about heritage concerning statutes that were put up by the KKK in the 60s, or stalled. Now people are fed up.

---

legendary_zell posted...

Post an example of a community coming to terms with a dark past through a monument or statue of the person that made the past dark. Then compare that to how often the dark past is unironically glorified. Then maybe you can see why people are done with these false narratives. People would have been fine with just putting them in a museum if gatekeepers had been willing to see reason. Instead, they screamed bloody murder about heritage concerning statutes that were put up by the KKK in the 60s, or stalled. Now people are fed up.

But here we go again, what about the American flag itself? Literally a symbol of genocide. Youre focusing on one point but ignoring another.

---

nativengine posted...

But here we go again, what about the American flag itself? Literally a symbol of genocide. Youre focusing on one point but ignoring another.

I'm not ignoring it. That's a 100% valid and accurate view if you're a Native American. That's what the whole talk about the Boomers was about. That view is an absolute non-starter for people now, but in the future it may not be. Just like thinking we should get rid of a statue of Columbus would have made you a radical even 15 years ago, but now it's flipped. Symbols have no inherent meaning, it's a battle of history and rhetoric. People consider the flag sacred now, but if it comes to be mainly identified with all of the unjustifiable things done in it's name, that will be very different.

What that will lead to, I don't know. We aren't at the end of history, and a lot of the things we're doing now or that we did in the recent past will come to be viewed as too shameful to be prideful in. For example, the Japanese Imperial flag was just "the flag" during the WW2 era and before, and now it's a symbol of right wing nationalism and imperialism that means something very different and very negative. That could happen here with the US flag or any number of symbols or monuments. And when they changed their flag, that didn't erase WW2. It was their education system and culture that erased it if it has been erased. Same here.

---

.
---

Lorenzo_2003 posted...

They dont want to put it in a closet, friend. They want to put it at the bottom of a lake, where no one can see it, let alone come to terms with the nuance of a young nations past.

I dont believe theyre actually interested in slaverys influence and contributions. Protesters are defacing or tearing down statues and memorials that honor abolitionists and black soldiers, for example, as well as a recent statue that was paid for by freed slaves.

Which, again, literally proves these statues and monuments are "teaching" people absolute jack shit, so it's not a valid defense for keeping them.
---