Lurker > Tyranthraxus

smoke_break posted...

This reminds me of that one IT Crowd episode about the "Internet" box, lol.

https://i.imgur.com/RT9dHlP.png

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

DarkChozoGhost posted...

Wait, wasn't bluemonk addicted to getting credit cards in the mid 2010s?

Now bankruptcy? Guess that kinda tracks

From what he says he could probably avoid bankruptcy but he will end up with net more money long term by declaring this.

The bad rap around bankruptcy is mostly from lenders who obviously don't want you to declare it. It doesn't have to be a last resort. Yeah it wrecks your credit for a few years but that hardly matters if you can't afford anything anyway because all your money is going to crushing debt.

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

Irony posted...

Another week another pair of shadow warrior instead of shard of foul legacy

I got both!



---

It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

legendarylemur posted...

FK is much better than most things atm anyways. Mayreel will probably make Earth teams Mayreel and Bari + 2 other ppl. FK just fits in nearly everything cuz of her weapon skill cdr.

You know Dolf has the exact same skill but no one ever used him lol

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15nNY7uofNw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EShUeudtaFg

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

I just maxed out Future Knight.

IDK if that was the best idea given the sorry state of my Earth team but whatever.

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

So what happens if I just don't talk in sentences ever again?

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

CADE FOSTER posted...

anything a youtuber shills i stay away from

[You require a NordVPN Account to view this message.]

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

No but I've played a ton of clones. It is itself a clone of summoners war essentially.

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

My Little Human Centipede

---

It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

WingsOfGood posted...

So pirating has been proven to increase sales in some cases since this whole market would not have existed without it.

/thread

In certain extremely specific and narrow cases piracy's net effect on sales is still completely irrelevant to whether it is moral or not.

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

Anime piracy / fansubbing in the 80s and 90s helped identify the market in America and what might be profitable here.

Something similar happened with msdos games which is how GOG identified a demand for a legal market.

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

Pome posted...

is it fun. all i know about this game is gamer rage

Borrow it. Beat the story mode. Give it back.

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

wiiking96 posted...

Okay, great. Then lets imagine a scenario:

There are 100 poor people in a town who need insulin to survive. Recently, the price of insulin that those 100 people can access has been jacked up 10,000%, and those 100 people can no longer afford it. There is a surplus of insulin available. A vigilante - let's call them "Robin Hood", decides to steal several months worth of insulin from a facility and distributes it to those 100 people.

Is that act of theft, in and of itself, immoral?

No that is in my opinion justified theft. I also placing the burden of necessities on people who need those necessities to be immoral. It does not need to be free, of course, but no one should have to struggle with how they will be able to get their life saving medication. Similar arguments to be made for food and water.

Of course if "Robin Hood" decided to sell at "only a 200%" markup that would be immoral.

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

Hipparmchia posted...

Oh and lack of narrative and direction

But it's good. Really good. It's just not zelda

It's the only real Zelda since Zelda 1

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

wiiking96 posted...

@Tyranthraxus

You seem to hold the opinion that dishonesty is immoral. Therefore I must ask you this question:

Why is dishonesty immoral?

Dishonesty is not always immoral. Neither is stealing. There's always circumstances where I'd consider both of them to be morally appropriate. Video games usually doesn't qualify however.

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

wiiking96 posted...

@Tyranthraxus

Can I summarize your answer as "Stealing is immoral because it is harmful to society"?

Sure. Feels free to copy / paste the whole thing in case someone asks "How?"

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

Hornezz posted...

I'd argue it matters A LOT if the argument heavily relies on the rights of the creator.

If the creator has no way of telling the difference between two scenarios (copy or borrowed) and the results in terms of revenue are indistinguishable (he gets paid only once) then it makes no sense to call only one of the scenarios disrespectful to him and therefore immoral. Either both are or neither is.

That is not correct. When you pay the creator, you make an agreement to not copy the game. You do not make an agreement to never lend out the game. Making a copy is breaking your promise / agreement, deception, and theft. It is immoral and disrespectful.

This is functionally equivalent to cheating on your spouse but then saying "eh they have no way of ever finding out so it's okay"

No it's still immoral even if your spouse never finds out.

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

WingsOfGood posted...

What is immoral about an online pass?

It is just a publisher wanting their fair share.

Online passes were often not advertised as part of the game which is deceptive marketing Designed to fleece legal economy-contributing owners by holding a portion of the game hostage simply because they didn't purchase a factory sealed copy.

The publishers themselves also realized it was wrong and eventually cancelled the concept as a whole.

wiiking96 posted...

I genuinely want to have a discussion on morality. I want a genuine answer to the question I asked.

This is a never ending rabbit hole because once this question is answered it leads into "what even is morality and why are morals desirable?"

The short answer to the question however is that society functions on a contract of contributions to the community that are rewarded with goods and services based proportionately on the value of the contributions that you make. The contributions that you make are measured in currency. The currency that you possess tells everyone who uses the same currency that you have created contributions to society with a value equal to the currency that you possess. This entitles you to rewards equivalent to the sum of that currency. You exchange the currency to receive rewards that are themselves the contributions of other people and thus the transfer of contributions to society is documented in the currency that we all possess.

When you steal that society's contract is violated and it throws the balance of measuring contributions and fair assignment of rewards for your contributions completely off balance. If enough people begin violating this contract the incentive to continue participating in that contract goes dramatically down.

If everyone steals and no one pays for anything then people stop making things because these things will no longer be considered contributing to society. Instead only things that cannot be stolen will be made.

I know it doesn't look like a short answer but it is.

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

I don't understand anything anymore

---

It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

WingsOfGood posted...

also, remember online passes? ahahaha

Online passes are also immoral. Their existence does not justify stealing either.

---

It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

AwesomeFawful posted...

Who's got that Onion article?

Which one:

https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1819580358

https://www.theonion.com/man-can-t-believe-obama-would-use-tragedy-to-push-anti-1819578310

Or this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2WzEZ8o-TU

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

Irony posted...

Another week another pair of shadow warrior instead of shard of foul legacy

I just want prototypes.

---

It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

WingsOfGood posted...

Ah you admit you made it up.

I guess Half Life 3 not existing is pirates fault too?

The story of Half-Life 3 development hell is well documented. A Spore sequel was never considered by EA. They funded some low budget content packs and lower budget shovelware and that's it.

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

WingsOfGood posted...

That seems to be your personal conclusion as the articles I seen claimed it sold well and was financially successful. Infact saying EA themselves noted this and that is why the spinoffs and expacs exist.

Or do you do have a source you can cite?

The source is the wikipedia page for Spore 2.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spore_2

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

WingsOfGood posted...

Spore apparently didn't sell poorly, it just sold less than it would have if no one pirated maybe.
It is possible they would never made Spore 2 anyways.

I mean, the studio wasn't canned apparently and new content was released BECAUSE of Spore SUCCESS:

It sold poorly enough that EA decided a sequel would not be worth funding. That was the metric of your demand and that is what I provided. Is it possible that a sequel might have never been made regardless? I mean I think you know the answer to that already given EAs predisposition for shitting out so many low quality sequel cash grabs they make Activision blush.

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

Questionmarktarius posted...

Spore is an illustration of the other side of this rant: "Don't copy that floppy!" became "How do we know you didn't copy that floppy? Did you? Huh?! Huh?! Lemme rummage around on your hard drive and mess with your CD-ROM drivers right quick, just to be sure."

SecuROM is also immoral. This isn't a right vs wrong debate.

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

WingsOfGood posted...

Says it was a commercial success.

And yet there was no sequel. Spore ended up the most pirated game in history. The completely unrelated spinoff-in-name-only Darkspore was online only and it's now unplayable because the servers are offline.

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

Duncanwii posted...

See this whole situation is like the natural symbiotic relationship between the shark and the remora. The remora stays safe from predators and gets fed, while the shark is cleaned and gets a paycheck. If the shark happens to eat a few bigger fish the remora doesnt have to think about that because they no longer have to worry about them as a predator. In this analogy the Sharks are Police, the Remora are society, and the bigger fish are dangerous criminals.

Are you seeing my point here?

Yes exactly. Here's a video from an ex police officer that goes over more in detail about your analogy, how it's what they teach to cops in academy, and how, most importantly, it's the fundamental root of all the dehumanizing abuse conducted by police.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ3SSNJIQ2k


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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

WingsOfGood posted...

Any example ever where piracy is the cause of this?

The most notorious example of this is Spore but I'm sure it doesn't count in your head for some reason you've yet b to come up with.

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

WingsOfGood posted...

That would be stealing the game.
What you are confusing is thinking a license = the game.
It doesn't. We don't get sold ownership of our games. You don't own any game.

When you buy a game you're buying a license that authorizes you to create a copy of the game for your personal use. Ergo you are still taking the game but now you have permission to do it, so you are not stealing.

If you do not buy the license, then you do not have permission, and you are therefore taking the game without permission and thus stealing.

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

WingsOfGood posted...

That is not the same thing.
A pirated cyberpunk is not the source code that got leaked.

Talking source code is getting to the ACTUAL game that Tyran tries to claim was taken.

Since they don't sell you the source code and this discussion is what they sell, that is a license, you aren't stealing the game normally as you would not be getting the source code.

No the source code is distinct from the game. Stealing the source code and stealing the game are two different acts.

Besides plenty of people do sell the source code.

---

It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

Doe posted...

The initial claim by anti-pirates is typically that piracy is wrong because it's theft. The assertion of wrongness comes those opposed to it, not the pro-pirates trying to revel in evil or something.
It's already been refuted that piracy is the theft of an object.
Its now on you to show that piracy is immoral for some other reason.

Piracy is theft but it is not wrong because it is theft. That is an appeal to law fallacy. It is wrong for different reasons. It just also happens to be theft.

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

WingsOfGood posted...

So you did not steal "the game itself".

yes you did. The item you acquire through a legal transaction is not the same as the one acquired through an illegal download.

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

WingsOfGood posted...

The answer is you don't own games when you buy them.

Just because you misunderstand what part you own doesn't mean you can't take it.

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

WingsOfGood posted...

Do you own the game when you buy it?

You own a licensed right to your copy of the game for a digital purchase.

You own the entire physical medium for a physical one but not the license.

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

WingsOfGood posted...

Copying is not taking

Yes it is. End of story.

Rest of your post is void because it's based on fundamentally false axioms.


---

It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

The most depressingly realistic part of monopoly is the get out of jail free card.

---

It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

Machete posted...

So if they check their inventory, they will find that it is short by 1?

No. Stealing does not require the original item to be removed or displaced. Only taken.

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

WingsOfGood posted...

the game was not played.

for example, if you later decide "I want to play that game" and you erased the copy
you will need to buy it

so you cannot argue the game was stolen if they did not play it

Yes I can. Because stealing only requirement is that you take something. You don't have to use it. It does not have to be usable. It does not have to be worth anything. If it doesn't belong to you and you take it without permission, that's stealing.

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

WingsOfGood posted...

what was stolen?

The game itself.

WingsOfGood posted...

it wasn't a sell as you just admitted.

it wasn't an experience, because they didn't play the game

Doesn't matter. If you took something that didn't belong to you, then you stole. Doesn't matter if it's literally not worth anything. Doesn't matter if it's non functional.

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

WingsOfGood posted...

How does the act of downloading without playing what you just downloaded take away a sale exactly?

It does not. It's still stealing.

Note: stealing is not always immoral. Though it usually is in the case of video games.

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

WingsOfGood posted...

If I were an author and my book only sold 30 copies but several thousand people read it via the library and sharing a copy with their friends, I would probably be upset.
And yet that is totally legal.

The library would pay you not that you'll ever produce anything a library would want to stock.

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

WingsOfGood posted...

What if I am the one who downloaded it?

If you downloaded it, then you stole it, even if you did not play it.

---

It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

WingsOfGood posted...

I go to the library. Someone downloaded the full game of Cyberpunk.
I play it for 100s of hours.

Did I steal?

No because you did not make the copy.

What you did do, however, is very likely immoral, especially if you already knew it was an illegal copy.

---

It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

Giant_Aspirin posted...

i think you accidentally a word

Someone morally the word

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

Doe posted...

So if I buy a copy of a book from an author, then 1 by 1 I lend it to every other literate person on Earth, it's no problem. But if I go Monk mode and copy the book into a second book, I have now stolen?

Lending the book to everyone on earth one at a time is not stealing. Morality aside is a different story. There's certainly a morality argument to be made for letting a whole community benefit identically from a product meant for an individual.

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

WingsOfGood posted...

they played the whole game without paying

just cause you paid does not give them a right to the IP as according to you, by playing a game you have stolen the IP

Legally it does because of first sale doctrine.

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

COVxy posted...

If it there is no loss, then it is immoral to not share the resource, in my opinion.

Obviously it is not immoral to walk into my garden, do nothing of substance, and then leave the garden mostly in the same condition it was before you entered it, but that's Trespassing, not stealing.

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv

WingsOfGood posted...

If I don't own their IP how did I steal it?

I either become the IP owner or I don't.

How do you steal something and not own it after stealing it?

If you steal my car, you don't become the owner of my car. It's physically in your possession but for all legal purposes you are not the owner and I am.

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv