Lurker > SeabassDebeste

speaking of oldbag, i think you could make the case for penny and sal manella in 1-3. unless you want to include sal in the morgan fey category of willing accomplice?
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

adrian's a weird one since you find out the truth before the final trial. she's definitely suspect #1 during the course of the monster day 1, of course

desiree and palaeno seem ridiculously suspicious from an AA perspective, but the player character never really gets that suspicious of them, so they're not traditional red herrings
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

that was the first one that came to mind posing the question!
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

on that note, who's the best red herring of all time, IYO?
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

i mean, hard to blame her - ema's a cop after all

but edgeworth is also just much more commanding. he's also got that golden boy virtuoso appeal that phoenix lacks (despite being basically the best defense attorney alive)
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

LeonhartFour posted...

sorry dude the image of Sorin inching across the outside of the airship after being stabbed in the gut is one of the most hardcore things the series has ever produced

kinda inconsequential, but fair
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

incidentally, that line probably the only part about sorin that didn't suck!
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

ah, i definitely forgot the lore surrounding the f.o., then
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

I mean since Inga doesn't have spiritual powers, he would have needed to be regent through Rayfa whether he loved her or not. So I think she's definitely right about that. The question is whether he actually loved her or whether he just saw her as a tool.
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

LeonhartFour posted...

Another instance of Inga maybe low-key not being quite as evil as he seems is the fact that he gave Maya all sorts of amenities, even as he held her captive. Also, when you examine his room, you can find a drawer full of unapproved execution papers, some dating back as far as five years, so perhaps a part of him didn't actually like sentencing people to death that he thought were innocent.

I mean don't get me wrong the dude was still evil. The game just paints him as a bit more gray than straight up black.

I usually use grey to describe doing bad things for a good (if misguided) reason, like the villain of Watchmen, or Jack Bauer, or Thanos (if you want to go there). From what we can tell, Inga was doing bad things for bad reasons (unless he was only planning the coup because he thought Gar'an (Ga'ran?) was a tyrant and not for personal gain - but you need to read pretty far beyond the text for that one).

He has a soft heart, but I don't think that makes him "grey" morally. I see niceness and evilness kind of orthogonal to each other in this case.
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

NeoElfboy posted...

Yeah, the new games don't have more text. They do take significantly more time, though, which is a problem.

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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

The information we learn and don't learn, and how little work goes into these revelations in this final Dhurke conversation, is one of the weakest parts of the case IMO.
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

LeonhartFour posted...

At first, it's kind of puzzling as to why Rayfa believes in her father's goodness despite all evidence to the contrary, but searching his room seems to indicate that he really did care about her. It's an interesting dichotomy between the villain we see and the father he was to Rayfa, especially since he knew she wasn't his biological daughter.

yeah. inga wanted to use rayfa politically but legit seemed like he cared for her too
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

phoenix and edgeworth's married couple/war buddy vibes in 6-5 are amazing. best part of the khura'in half's investigation imo.
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

it's AA so i'm okay with its being murder, i think. using the damsel in distress card again was worse.
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

i think this section had no more surprises for me, mostly a matter of just executing things/watching the characters figure it out. it's weird how much they built up rayfa being dhurke/amara's daughter when the reveal was so obvious and not even that climactically done. a lot of 6-5's twists probably deserved to be executed better, i'd say, though the final (rather predictable) one is still great!
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

1-2, 4-1, and 6-5 of those

i do love 1-4 too

we meet diego armando in 3-4, right?
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

I'd forgotten about Amara getting shot. Sadly the best part of 6-5 is over now IMO - though while it's easy to foresee, proving Gar'an to have no channeling ability is fantastic.
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

pause, it's a monster trial
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

Giggsalot posted...

oh god i'm right aren't i

Giggsalot posted...

this case is horrendous

great series of posts
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

Paratroopa1 posted...

Huh, Uendo only had 185 lines combined?

nvm didn't realize it was broken out
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

uendo had fewer lines than april may?

i guess he doesn't appear out of court but damn

also surprised that geiru beats him (and the phantom...)
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

I thought of Uendo as the Day 1 witness in a mini-case. But yeah, Datz reminded me a lot of Tigre in that he was just blatantly, shamelessly lying.
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

I thought it was pretty clear that Datz couldn't be the killer since we were clearly looking at a two-day case. Didn't mind him though, other than the intentional frustration.
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

LeonhartFour posted...

Man, I feel like this Uendo section takes way too long, and the payoff isn't really worth it. For all the effort it takes to drag out Owen, his part in the case is over in like 10 minutes.

That's just kind of the nature of the beast sometimes - working really hard on red herrings, when the actual culprit goes down easy. I feel like Bonnie/Betty take up more time than Reus, and Datz intentionally wastes your entire Day 1, too.
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

Is Athena supposed to be Japanese in the Japanese game, or was she raised overseas like Franziska? If she's a foreigner, then mistaking sake for rice wine could be a legit thing? She's also pretty young.
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

Giggsalot posted...

which is probably just as well, since she can have us decapitated whenever she likes.

yeah, let's just not think too hard about it and enjoy the ridiculousness of it!
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

is the difference found mainly in trial or in investigation?
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

maya having one more line than judge is kinda neat.

it's crazy how low line counts have dropped since the original games relative to case length
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

Giggsalot posted...

in any case, I love that nayna is becoming a plot point here, she's fantastic.

aw yeah

LeonhartFour posted...

there was one big 6-5 theory I came up with that I nailed (although I was right for the wrong reason but hey) but I was laughably wrong in other areas

which was this?

NeoElfboy posted...

It's a bit cowardly IMO but it's not the end of the world

i pretty much agree with you, it's just something that lowers my investment in the characters and kind of keeps me on the outside looking in
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

LeonhartFour posted...

also don't talk about "aging out of prime years without romance" when I'll be as old as Hobonix next year

hey now, you're a real life person, not a character controlled by writers who need to appease their fans

you get to appease your own fans!
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

Giggsalot posted...

that's a fair point actually; as harrowing as this case has been, it seems almost like a retcon to be discovering Apollo's inner turmoil and tragic upbringing now. it's just amusing that his relatively normal life makes Phoenix stick out like a sore thumb in his own cast.

Absolutely agreed here!

interesting to bring up his seven year slump too, I know that's not the most popular narrative in the series (for good reason) and it's kinda brushed under the rug now plot-wise but I always thought it lended depth to his character, and in a fairly non-outlandish way in comparison to everyone else's considerably more melodramatic hardships.

The seven DARK YEARS OF THE LAW for Phoenix are kind of the opposite to Apollo for me. Apollo got a silly dark past in AA5/6 after being just a fanboy type with nearly zero backstory in AA4. Phoenix seemed like he was living in a state of constant rock bottom in AA4, but subsequent games fleshed out his relationships with Edgeworth and Maya during his off-years, making it much more palatable.

Also it's not the territory of the writers of the games to deliver on romantic pairings, but it makes me sad that all our favorite characters seem to be aging out of their prime years without serious liaisons. Edgeworth avers no interest, which I can get behind, but Phoenix at least we know is capable of, and at least once desired, romantic love.

LeonhartFour posted...

Well, we've known Apollo was an orphan (or supposedly since his mother isn't actually dead) since AJ, so he kinda had a "tragic past" already. We just didn't know anything about why he wanted to be a lawyer, and SoJ finally filled in the blank.

don't forget the clay terran backstory from AA5 lmao
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

I like that we don't know much about Phoenix's family. It mostly implies that he was an average kid growing up, which is something I can relate to. No need for every kid to be a traumatized orphan supergenius. The individual characters resulting from this formula can be good - Edgeworth and Maya, i.e. - but I dislike the trend toward more and more precocious and angsty childhoods in AA. You can have strong characters without dramatic backstories too!

Of course for this to work logically we should overlook Phoenix's 7-year life of suck, which we generally should do anyway.
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

6-3 feels somewhat less than the sum of its pieces in hindsight to me. probably has to do with how small the cast is - doesn't feel like you cover a lot of different ground for a monster-length double-murder trial
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

Johnbobb posted...

oh shit nagito

oh ya
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

there are so many good ones. rayfa's "what?!" (narrowing eyes, shaking fists) and emma's thinking/tilting ones are amazing too!
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

nagito is smarter than you and has no time for your shit
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

bump so i can archive and decide on next series!
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

is yyh still on crunchyroll?
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

mahiru started the game pretty high up on my rankings since she was among the least bad. as you go though, many other characters will surpass her due to their screen time.
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

the first few episodes involve yusuke coming back to life and then thr next twenty or so lead up to a fight with rando
given that i know there is a "dark tournament" it seems like something i could definitely enjoy
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

oh hey i checked on this topic just in time to see you've met naGOATo
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

Well it's like pop songs. I can like them on the first go but still appreciate the repetition more!

Is it common to have Pouf on the bottom? lol
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

hmm, i'm going to some wedding soon too. don't know if they have OB. might be better for me if they don't.
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

seems wise

i apparently have some elevated elements in blood that indicate liver issues, but i had like 6-7 drinks tonight :(
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

Part of what I love about OP/ED is that you get familiar with them over the course of time. Watching the 1999 OP/EDs didn't do it for me so much because I only saw them just once. So GOT has some nice ending songs (Stark theme, remixes of Rains of Castamere, etc) but I prefer the consistency!
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

the OP/ED is the best part of many anime! some american tv shows too - i always got epic-hyped for the intro of buffy, or friends, or game of thrones. EDs seem to be more of an anime thing though!
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

It's definitely between the two! Gon's morality is so unique and I love his character - but he could be bland to watch during the second half of the Chimera Ant arc once he was no longer the focus.

Killua is in general more consistently entertaining, and my favorite part about him is that despite what you'd expect to be a colder persona, he's usually happy to go with Gon's more hotheaded whims.
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

quick characterz ranking

gon
killua
meruem
hisoka
colt
kite
ikalgo
melereon
illumi
pitou
knuckle
palm
morel
pouf
menthuthuyoupi
leorio
kurapika
netero
shoot
genthru
queen chimera ant
knov
ging
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

Great Arcs

4. Palace Invasion

The climax of the series really pissed me off at first, and sadly the pacing takes a hit due to how spread out everything becomes. Not a big fan of the nuke, or of Youpi walking away from that massive battle unscathed and feeling like it's been a gigantic waste of time, or of Ikalgo having worms in his scalp (FFFFF). But it hits so many emotional highs - Killua crying to Palm, Gon vs Pitou, and that final Meruem/Komugi episode - that it overcomes its flaws.

3. Queen Chimera Ants

Massive point deductions for Kite's crew (who fortunately don't wind up playing a major role) and for that unforgivable interlude about Gyro. Massive points for developing a fascinating set of powers, some ridiculous (but not scrubby) character designs, the pink koala, Colt's character, and the horrific way in which Kite dies.

2. Greed Island

Weird stakes as we're just out in this completely isolated world, but fun training/level-up, the development of Gon's (admittedly shitty) signature strike, and the only satisfying, arc-ending battles of the series in the dodgeball and Genthru fight. Points for video game tactics like trading cards and camping the spawn points. Not sure whether to award positive or negative points for the epic Ging-trolling.

I'm also attributing Ging's tape and G/K's pathetic attempts to raise money to this arc, and this arc wouldn't rank this highly without that stuff. The money-raising happens during the Yorknew arc but it's absolutely hilarious, and this is the best of the G/K-bonding. And perhaps my favorite part of it all is the episode which instigates everything, G/K on Whale Island, which made me almost tearily nostalgic.

1. Chimera Ants - post-NGL

The preparation for the invasion winds up giving us some really unexpected joys. Knuckle and Shoot are never better than when they're randomly developed strongly and turned into good guys. Then you've got Ikalgo and Melereon, who are amazing to be around. You've got that randomly heart-rending scene where the Queen dies. And of course, you've got Meruem's tabletop romance with Komugi. Really good material here with a disparate cast.
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yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness