Board 8 > Ace Attorney Topic Part 7: The Letting (Spoilers for AA1-6, AAI1-2)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Even though it really has nothing to do with the case, I like the discussion that Apollo and Athena have about the CUFFS OF JUSTICE (my word, I had forgotten they were called that) since it's true of a lot of things in the world. They talk about how they probably originally had a clearly defined purpose, but now they're just one of the many traditions that people follow without really thinking about them or knowing why. It's just a neat, thought-provoking conversation.
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Athena: He was carrying a broken gun around for show?
Ema: No, we recovered a bullet here. Which means the gun probably broke as the minister fired its last round. Thing is...the gun's chambers are all empty. Yet, that one bullet is the only bullet we could find.
Apollo: That is strange. Where did the other three go?
Athena: ...Maybe Dhurke ate them.
Apollo: We can ask the next time we see him. Just be ready for his predictably "shocking" answer.

in a sense Athena's not totally wrong

but boy do I wish they had asked him
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Leon you are so close to finishing your most ambitious project ever
Or do you still need to play something else
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well there's still Layton/Ace Attorney, although it's not canon
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Have you tried reading any of the Ace Attorney manga? I'm not even really sure how much of it is translated.
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http://aceattorney.wikia.com/wiki/Phoenix_Wright:_Ace_Attorney_(Kodansha_Comics_manga)

If you mean these, I've read all of the Phoenix Wright ones. I've read two of the Edgeworth ones. I need to read the other two one of these days.

http://aceattorney.wikia.com/wiki/Phoenix_Wright:_Ace_Attorney_-_Official_Casebooks_(Del_Rey_Manga)

If you're talking about these, I also own them, but they're...not that good. I didn't realize it was a doujinshi when I bought them (nor did I even know that doujinshi was a thing back then).
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Hit the checkpoint in the day 2 investigation and now we've switched over to Phoenix. I think it's kind of interesting that Ga'ran's profile for both Apollo and Phoenix might be a vague hint at the big twist. Both of their profiles mention that she's a spirit medium, but it's worded as "It is said that she can channel the dead" and "They say she possesses immense power as a spirit medium." They don't just outright say she's a powerful spirit medium. It's couched in hearsay, which is interesting.
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Edgeworth: Still at it, I see. I guess borders mean little in the face of your incurable habit.
Phoenix: Well, I heard you used to present evidence left and right during your investigations, too.
Edgeworth: That was a long time ago. Besides, who did you hear that from?
Phoenix: Oh, I have my sources.
Edgeworth: Oh? Well, tell your "source" that I look forward to his next salary review.

Pretty sure this is the only reference of any kind to the AAI games in the main series. It's good to know Phoenix still stays in touch with Gumshoe, too (and is still apparently under Edgeworth's jurisdiction), since that means he might be back for AA7!
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Edgeworth: The courts have been so peaceful without you around.
Phoenix: You make it sound like I leave legal devastation in my wake.
Edgeworth: Heh...Well, don't you?

*skip ahead*

Ga'ran: We have heard much about you, Barbed One. It seems your bluffs and tomfoolery tend to leave our court devastated in their wake.
Phoenix: Uh...Is that what people have been saying about me?

so good

Phoenix/Edgeworth as an investigative duo is super great, too. It's an outstanding bit of fanservice.
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phoenix and edgeworth's married couple/war buddy vibes in 6-5 are amazing. best part of the khura'in half's investigation imo.
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At first, it's kind of puzzling as to why Rayfa believes in her father's goodness despite all evidence to the contrary, but searching his room seems to indicate that he really did care about her. It's an interesting dichotomy between the villain we see and the father he was to Rayfa, especially since he knew she wasn't his biological daughter.
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Edgeworth acting as a Nayna stand-in for Rayfa is so good
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I think I underestimated Rayfa pretty badly on my list, she talks a lot more in 6-5 than I remembered off the top of my head.

Phoenix/Edgeworth section complete

Back to Apollo/Athena
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LeonhartFour posted...

At first, it's kind of puzzling as to why Rayfa believes in her father's goodness despite all evidence to the contrary, but searching his room seems to indicate that he really did care about her. It's an interesting dichotomy between the villain we see and the father he was to Rayfa, especially since he knew she wasn't his biological daughter.

yeah. inga wanted to use rayfa politically but legit seemed like he cared for her too
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"I'm looking forward to a nice, long talk once you're free."

man
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so I was randomly doing the math to see how long ago in the timeline Amara's supposed assassination happened

it would've been in 2004, so it actually happened 3 years after DL-6, which means DL-6 was 26 years ago at the time of SoJ
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it's too bad the game stops you from investigating Inga's room as Apollo or the tomb as Phoenix under the pretense that the other group already took care of it

I want more dialogue
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I like how Dhurke artfully avoids Apollo's questions about Amara and the baby (not that THE BABY). He never outright lies to him about it. He just finds ways to sidestep his questions.
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man Dhurke's confession with A Cornered Heart playing is super intense
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The information we learn and don't learn, and how little work goes into these revelations in this final Dhurke conversation, is one of the weakest parts of the case IMO.
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nah everything with Dhurke is fantastic

the Nahyuta stuff during the trial is the weakest part of the case because it makes no sense for it to be happening
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Edgeworth fanboying about what a ripoff the Plumed Punisher is was great

Phoenix: We probably shouldn't search the place while Datz is gone. Besides, we need to go over the case for tomorrow.
Athena: What's with you recently? It's like you want to spend every free minute we have snooping.
Apollo: (But don't you get the urge to look at everything you can sometimes, too?)

I always have the urge, Apollo

Anyway, 6-5 investigation day 2 complete. It set the record for most lines in a main series segment, breaking the record that 3-5 Trial Day 2 has held for quite a while now (the top 3 are all AAI segments), and the trial day is even longer. Wonder if trial day 2 can take the crown?

At the very least, it's going to probably shatter the record for most lines in a case by a lot. Not that it's too much of a surprise since it's by far the longest case in the series, but it's already longer than 6-3 and we haven't even had the trial yet!

Also, Athena got within 6 lines of catching Maya, so it looks like she'll hold on to her lead without needing 6-6 since I figure she has more lines in trial day 2 than Athena does.
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It's trial time. What's the best epic case trial day 2 in the series? This one's in contention despite its flaws, I think.
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Was AA1 the shortest? (Probably without 1-5 it was?)
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Without 1-5, it's easily the shortest. Including 1-5, it's around the same length as JFA, AJ, and AAI1.
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Main reason that I don't like DD and SoJ like you guys do is because it's too tedious imo
I found myself getting more tired and taking more breaks than by playing the other games in the series
Glad to see it's backed by facts that there is just much, much much more text

And it's not a good thing imo
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Nanis23 posted...

Glad to see it's backed by facts that there is just much, much much more text

it's actually not though
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Yeah, the new games don't have more text. They do take significantly more time, though, which is a problem.
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NeoElfboy posted...

Yeah, the new games don't have more text. They do take significantly more time, though, which is a problem.

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this coming from the guy who thinks AAI2 is the best game in the series, which has the highest average time per case in the series

DD takes more time than T&T because it has a sixth case. SoJ takes more time because it has the biggest case in the series. With an average-sized epic case, it'd be about the same plus the sixth case, too.
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DD (and presumably SoJ) has a similar line count to T&T but takes more time. It's not just because they have more/bigger cases, or the line count would be greater too. I think they're a bit slower/belabour their plot points a bit more. Like any time something dramatic happens in them you're more likely to get long dramatic pauses and sometimes even repeating previous scenes (SoJ has a particular problem with going to mini-flashbacks all the time - I dunno if you've been counting repeat lines or not, granted!).
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Nah, I don't count flashback lines, but yeah, SoJ is bad about overusing flashbacks.

I think the main reason DD is longer despite similar line counts is the fact that there are no free investigations. Give it free investigations, and it probably crushes T&T in line counts.
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SUCH INSOLENCE

Haha, I had actually forgotten about that. So good. Ga'ran is pretty strong out of the gates in this case, too. She sort of fades as the case goes along though.
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side note: started playing the AA6 DLC case last night, this is a lot of fun! I get the sense that this isn't going to be a objectively brilliant case, but investigating with Maya was an awesome throwback and all the Larry stuff in the trial has been hysterically funny. still a long way to go, but this feels like exactly the kind of entertaining nonsense that DLC cases are perfect for.
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Glad you're enjoying it! Phoenix/Maya stuff is definitely the highlight of 6-6.
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yeah, definitely. I kind of rolled my eyes at the way they railroaded Larry and Edgeworth into the case initially, but the dialogue has been excellent and there's been a really entertaining nostalgia about having the gang back together. I wouldn't really want a fan-service-heavy case like this in the "main" series, I don't think, but as a bonus it's pretty perfect really.
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Yeah, I know some people don't like the idea of "wasting" Edgeworth as a prosecutor in a case that's ultimately meaningless, but I didn't mind it.
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if anything I think it's better than his habit of descending from on high as a quasi-deus ex machina in every single final case, at least it suggests he works for a living between international crises
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I'd rather they "waste" Edgeworth on a case like this than have Nahyuta.
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Nahyuta might be better after the events of 6-5. But the fact that he would be different after 6-5 is one of the reasons he couldn't be the prosecutor in 6-6.
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LeonhartFour posted...

Nah, I don't count flashback lines, but yeah, SoJ is bad about overusing flashbacks.

Speaking of which, how will the Maya/Dhurke flashback be counted?
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I'm pretty down with using Edgeworth in lower-stakes cases in principle, but I'm not a big fan of his 6-6 appearance anyway.

LeonhartFour posted...

I think the main reason DD is longer despite similar line counts is the fact that there are no free investigations. Give it free investigations, and it probably crushes T&T in line counts.

Yeah that's probably true now that you mention it; I keep forgetting that you include optional lines. So the newer games really are just bigger.
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If it's a unique line, it gets counted. If it's a repeat, I don't count it.
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Rayfa is low-key kinda dumb

not in the "dum pink ball" sense

just kinda dumb
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I like Rayfa quite a bit.

But every young woman in the series who plays an assistant role (and I'll include her for this) has some strangely dumb moments for comedy (some more than others) and she's no different. Not really the most flattering pattern.

Alternative observation: that entire family is kinda dumb. Ga'ran's manipulations of them work way better than they should.
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yeah Rayfa might have gotten it from Amara

although Phoenix gets ridiculed for being dumb more than anyone in the series other than Larry so I don't think it's anything sexist

also Susato is pretty clearly presented as being smarter than Naruhodo in DGS

(Susato is great)
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man Inga's Divination Seance is so cool

there's just so much stuff going on all over the place here
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One of the really cool things about 6-5 trial day 2 is how the dynamic between Apollo and Phoenix gradually shifts over the course of the trial. For the first part of the trial, Phoenix is always a little bit ahead of Apollo in terms of coming to conclusions. As the trial goes along, eventually they get in sync with each other to the point that they can practically finish each other's sentences. But by the end, Apollo is actually the one who's one step ahead of Phoenix. They don't shove it in your face, but it was a really effective way to show how Apollo has really come into his own by the end of SoJ.
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Maya: Hm? And you are...?
Apollo: Oh, right. I'm Apollo Justice. It's nice to finally meet you.

two of the top 5 characters in line counts meeting for the first time at the end of the eighth game overall (or 9th counting Layton/AA, even)
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