Lurker > CasanovaZelos

my ranking:
Time (#843 all-time)
Jockey Full of Bourbon (#852)
Downtown Train (#864)
Union Square
Cemetery Polka
Rain Dogs
Singapore
Clap Hands
Walking Spanish
Blind Love
Big Black Mariah
Hang Down Your Head
Tango Till They're Sore
Anywhere I Lay My Head
Gun Street Girl
Diamonds & Gold
9th & Hennepin
Midtown
Bride of Rain Dog

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Up

oh right bumping

Is DMC 5 really notably behind 3 in the fan consensus? I consider the two about equal and I imagine opinion hinges on which aspects you prefer.

I think for there to be a 'consensus' opinion, I'd say at least 70% of the fanbase has to agree, and I don't imagine DMC 3 vs 5 having those numbers among people who have played both.

There is a very outspoken group who hates 5 but there are also people who really love it.

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Using Persona 5's immediate success as proof everyone agrees it is better is a bizarre take. Like, the whole reason people immediately checked it out is because Persona 4 slowly but assuredly became one of the most respected games ever. 5 had nearly a decade of hype off the previous entry - of course the follow-up to a breakthrough hit is going to have a bigger launch, and, yes, that can include people who didn't play the former joining the hype train because more people are pushing it. Resident Evil 5 also outsold RE4 by several million, and I'm sure there are tons of other examples. It happens in music all the time.

Persona 4 sold 1 million more copies after being released on Steam, over a decade after its original release. There is enduring love for that game.

The two 2D Soulslike games I know are also Metroidvanias, though

I'm increasingly of the opinion that Souls-likes are just a 3D variant of Metroidvanias with a couple extra elements attached. "Search (or the better Exploration) Action" could easily describe both genres, and the extra elements are simply how the Souls games differentiated themselves from the genre at large.

I'm generally neutral-to-positive on the gothic look, but my problem with Gothitelle lies elsewhere. Aside from the awkward first stage that paints the rest of the line in a bad light, Gothitelle kind of looks like a weird cake body with a bowtie head. Now that I think about it, she looks like a cut-up tie.

I'm really interested to see the reaction to Tom Waits by the unfamiliar. I expect some people to hate him for the same reason I love him - Tom Waits is one of the all-time great vocalists. It's not that he has a particularly beautiful voice. Quite the opposite, actually. He's the gruffest of the gruff, the type of voice one might associate with harsher genres that he uses for whatever he feels like. Rain Dogs (alongside Swordfishtrombones) is the turning point of his long, wonderful career, where he fully embraces his strange voice to start making music that belongs to him alone. An early exposure to these two albums was what convinced me to draw a line between someone being great at singing and being a great vocalist. To be great at singing simply implies having an impressive range. A great vocalist, who benefits from also being a great songwriter, can craft a song that fits their own voice like a glove. Tom Waits may not be capable of belting it out like a pop star, but they would similarly be incapable of burying these songs with covers.

neonreaper included these sample songs in the PM and may provide further comments soon

Lake of Tears - Forever Autumn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_F6CHZi13A

Green Carnation - Acoustic Verses
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pHZpEzhSB8

Opeth - Damnation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSpqLqC7U6g

Future Nostalgia Track Ranking

11. Good in Bed (Track #10)
Score: 23 (Average Rank: 9.7/11)
Biggest Fan(s): Mr Lasastryke (#4)
Biggest Detractor(s): CasanovaZelos, Raetsel_Lapin, MetalmindStats, Johnbobb, BlueCrystalTear (#11)

10. Boys Will Be Boys (Track #11)
Score: 33 (Average Rank: 8.8/11)
Biggest Fan(s): MetalmindStats (#3)
Biggest Detractor(s): neonreaper, Seanchan, Mr Lasastryke, VeryInsane (#11)

9. Pretty Please (Track #6)
Score: 44 (Average Rank: 7.7/11)
Biggest Fan(s): Mr Lasastryke (#3)
Biggest Detractor(s): MetalmindStats, Johnbobb, BlueCrystalTear (#10)

8. Hallucinate (Track #7)
Score: 47 (Average Rank: 7.3/11)
Biggest Fan(s): CasanovaZelos (#4)
Biggest Detractor(s): Raetsel_Lapin (#10)

7. Future Nostalgia (Track #1)
Score: 51 (Average Rank: 7.1/11)
Biggest Fan(s): neonreaper (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): ChichiriMuyo (#11)

6. Love Again (Track #8)
Score: 70 (Average Rank: 5.3/11)
Biggest Fan(s): ChichiriMuyo (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): Mr Lasastryke (#10)

5. Cool (Track #3)
Score: 74 (Average Rank: 5.3/11)
Biggest Fan(s): Raetsel_Lapin (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Seanchan (#10)

4. Break My Heart (Track #9)
Score: 86 (Average Rank: 4.3/11)
Biggest Fan(s): ChichiriMuyo, Johnbobb (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Mr Lasastryke (#9)

3. Physical (Track #4)
Score: 87 (Average Rank: 4.1/11)
Biggest Fan(s): Raetsel_Lapin, VeryInsane (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): MetalmindStats, Johnbobb (#8)

2. Don't Start Now (Track #2)
Score: 95 (Average Rank: 3.8/11)
Biggest Fan(s): Seanchan (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): neonreaper (#9)

1. Levitating (Track #5)
Score: 120 (Average Rank: 2.6/11)
Biggest Fan(s): CasanovaZelos, neonreaper, Mr Lasastryke, MetalmindStats, VeryInsane, BlueCrystalTear (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Raetsel_Lapin (#8)

Dua Lipa's Future Nostalgia Results

The participants sorted by deviation from final results:
BlueCrystalTear (8)
CasanovaZelos (10)
VeryInsane (14)
MetalmindStats (16)
Seanchan (20)
ChichiriMuyo (22)
neonreaper (24)
Johnbobb (24)
Raetsel_Lapin (26)
Mr Lasastryke (34)

General Album Comments

Seanchan: Very interested to see the reaction to Future Nostalgia. It's so damn pop I think it's going to be pretty mixed, a few who love it, a few who hate it because it's not their style, and a few who think it's just "fine" but that it's been overplayed.

CasanovaZelos: Future Nostalgia is probably my favorite mainstream pop album ever. 4 songs in my all-time top 1000 (even my #1 album only has 3!) and another not too far outside it. The remaining songs are all fairly good except for one obvious dud. The pacing is fairly strong outside of petering out at the end, largely alternating between the mega hits and the backing tracks to never lose steam. A pure pop album hasn't been this good since Thriller.

ChichiriMuyo: A lot of people would probably sleep on this album, but as far as dance-pop goes it shows a lot of range and intellect. You can hear bits and pieces of decades worth of inspiration that went into this work scattered throughout. The most stand out to me was the moment when a sample best known from 1997's "Your Woman" (White Town) plays, though it is itself a slightly altered sample from 1932's "My Woman" (Lew Stone & his Monseigneur Band). Generations on generations of collected knowledge. Is it perfect? Certainly not. Is it art? Absolutely. If there's one thing Andy Warhol got right it's this - something can be both art and a product meant for mass consumption.

Seanchan: No surprise, since this is my nomination, but I think this album is fucking great! I've probably listened to it a dozen times in the last 6-8 months and it hasn't gotten old. It's just an album I can turn on and enjoy, front to back. It's poppy, it's upbeat, it's got some cool beats. It's exactly the type of thing I enjoy listening to.

I'm not going to break down each song, but I will say there's a distinctive gap in my mind between the top 3, the middle 4, and the "bottom" 4. And even though I have Boys Will Be Boys ranked last, I "enjoy" the message of that song. Its lyrics resonate because they're sadly still relevant. I know it's a movie about older times but I couldn't help but think of that song when I watched the movie The Last Duel.

Mr Lasastryke: Dua Lipa's debut was good but Future Nostalgia is a huge improvement. This is an album filled with instant classics and it justly won the Grammy Award for Best Pop Vocal Album. There are no bad songs to be found here.

I absolutely adore "Levitating", it might be my favorite song of 2020. I love the chord changes and spacey feel of the song. "Cool" perhaps best exemplifies the retro '80s synthpop sound of this album. "Pretty Please" is so funky, it could have been a lost Prince track. "Good in Bed" doesn't make my top 3, but I still think it is a fantastic pop song and I'm not sure why people seem to be really down on it? I hope it's not because we're offended by a young woman singing about sex in 2022 >_>

The only two songs that keep this album from being perfect are "Love Again" and "Boys Will Be Boys". "Love Again" is fine but it doesn't leave much of an impression on me; I thought White Town utilized this sample better. The baroque pop of "Boys Will Be Boys" is uh... kind of a weird choice to end the album on, after all the pop-disco-funk music, and unfortunately, it's not a particularly great baroque pop song. Still, amazing album!

MetalmindStats (responding to Mr Lasastryke's comment on Good in Bed): To be clear, I personally am offended by anyone, young or not, woman or otherwise, singing about sex! /s

In all due seriousness, there's not a single song here I don't like (with my top seven being outright great IMO), and something has to be last. Also, that something was never going to be Boys Will Be Boys; for me, its placement and deviation from the rest of Future Nostalgia only enhances its impact.

VeryInsane: Kinda forgot how strong this album was

Johnbobb: Dua Lipa really isn't the type of music I normally go for but something about her voice is just so addicting

BlueCrystalTear: I went into this with doubts since I'd only ever heard "Levitating" before this, but found this ripe with catchy hooks and fun, lively beats. The ones toward the bottom for me were simply less memorable; my top 7 were all ones I can recall after listening, and it's a mighty big feat for an album to pull that off after two listens. The others aren't bad, just dwarfed.

Previous results can be seen here:
https://board8.fandom.com/wiki/Rank_the_Tracks

The rules:
1. Listen to the album in full
2. Rank every track on the album
3. For the results, there will be a curve at the top of each list; two additional points between #1 and #2, and one additional point for the next two ranks. This way, the songs that really stick out to someone get an edge that is not immediately negated by someone else putting it lower. In the case of Demon Days, someone's 15th track will get 1 point, 14th 2 points, 4th 12 points, 3rd 14 points, 2nd 16 points, and 1st 19 points. For albums with greater than 15 tracks, everything ranked below #15 will be given 0 points and the scale for the top 15 will be the same as a 15-track album. For albums with more than 20 tracks, you only have to list your top 15 (with 16-20, I still like having the average rank listed)
4. If you want to include comments for individual songs, I will compile them in the results
5. The results will be posted at the beginning of the next topic
6. The deadline to vote is Sunday, February 6 at 8:00 AM EST - though if you are for whatever reason listening to the album around that time, just say so in the topic and I can delay a bit
7. You can sign up to be added to the user cycle - the next person on the list will choose 3 albums which the other users will vote on for the next topic.
7a. To ensure people are being given an actual choice, the three nominated albums must be by different artists. You can otherwise stick to a similar sound or era.
7b. The tiebreaker for these polls will be whichever is listed first in the poll options - make sure to deliver the results in order of your own preference (which will hopefully have the added benefit of influencing people toward your first choice if they can't decide).

Dua Lipa's Future Nostalgia track list:
1. Singapore
2. Clap Hands
3. Cemetery Polka
4. Jockey Full of Bourbon
5. Tango Till They're Sore
6. Big Black Mariah
7. Diamonds & Gold
8. Hang Down Your Head
9. Time
10. Rain Dogs
11. Midtown
12. 9th & Hennepin
13. Gun Street Girl
14. Union Square
15. Blind Love
16. Walking Spanish
17. Downtown Train
18. Bride of Rain Dog
19. Anywhere I Lay My Head

User Cycle:
2/13: RyoCaliente (Bloc Party - Silent Alarm)
2/20: darkx (The Beatles - Rubber Soul)
2/27: neonreaper
3/6: Great_Paul
3/13: jcgamer107
3/20: ChichiriMuyo
3/27: ChainLTTP
4/3: BlueCrystalTear
4/10: MetalmindStats
4/17: HBJDubs
4/24: TheArkOfTurus
5/1: Snake5555555555
5/8: Jesse_Custer
5/15: ZaziGuado
5/22: firefdr
5/29: SpikeSetsFire
6/5: Johnbobb
6/12: VeryInsane
6/19: CasanovaZelos
6/26: Seanchan
7/3: Giggsalot

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I don't remember having difficulty there. The AI is so easy to exploit and the Jecht Shot whatever tends to decimate them.

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Elekid and Pichu are both great, Togepi is fine, and I don't really care for any of the others

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I like the idea of making some of the standalone Pokemon two stages, but the reason I like that idea is largely negated by the 'baby' aspect. What I would want is to have earlier access to the line while playing through the campaign - they have eventually done this with some of them, but initially tying them to breeding pretty much limited them to dex completion fodder.

I'm happy Tyrogue conceptually exists but I hate the design and evolution methods. I actually really like Bonsly, Munchlax, and Mantyke's designs, but the later babies are especially hindered by the weird breeding requirements. I don't get why they can't just retcon them into existence instead of the whole incense thing - especially since we can still just breed for the fully-evolved version.

Seanchan posted...

By any chance, did you happen to keep track of who nominated each of the 50 albums we've covered so far? I'm interested to know who's noms I've enjoyed the most.

Unfortunately not - we can probably figure out the recent ones by matching them to the user cycle (skipping the few who were added to it after the cycle started), but I did not keep track of the earlier info.

I should probably point out that I will be doing another 'Rank the Albums' project once we get through album #50, which will be Bloc Party's Silent Alarm. So, if you missed any of the weeks from Are You Experienced on, you might want to go back and listen to those albums.

Future Nostalgia is probably my favorite mainstream pop album ever. 4 songs in my all-time top 1000 (even my #1 album only has 3!) and another not too far outside it. The remaining songs are all fairly good except for one obvious dud. The pacing is fairly strong outside of petering out at the end, largely alternating between the mega hits and the backing tracks to never lose steam. A pure pop album hasn't been this good since Thriller.

Track ranking:
1. Levitating
2. Don't Start Now
3. Physical
4. Hallucinate
5. Break My Heart
6. Love Again
7. Cool
8. Pretty Please
9. Future Nostalgia
10. Boys Will Be Boys
11. Good in Bed

darkx's blurbs for the album choices:

The Beatles - Rubber Soul
The Fab Four's sixth album is generally seen as a transitional album between the rock & roll influence of their early albums and the psychedelic sound of their later years. Despite none of its tracks ever reaching #1, this record nevertheless houses some very well-known tunes, including "Michelle," "Nowhere Man," "Drive My Car," and "In My Life."

Billy Joel - An Innocent Man
Billy Joel's ninth album is an intentional throwback, with each track performed in the style of an artist or sub-genre that inspired the piano man. It produced the second of only three #1 hits for Joel ("Tell Her About It"), as well as several more of his most popular songs, such as "Uptown Girl" and "The Longest Time."

AC/DC - Back in Black
The second-best selling album on all time, AC/DC's seventh album is often considered the greatest comeback in music history, written, recorded and released in the span of 5 months following the death of the band's original lead singer, Bon Scott. Brian Johnson proved he was a worthy frontman with powerful vocals on songs such as "Hells Bells" and "You Shook Me All Night Long," as well as the title track, which has become one of the most famous in all of classic rock.

Fleet Foxes track ranking

11. Meadowlarks (Track #9)
Score: 26 (Average Rank: 9.4/11)
Biggest Fan(s): Raetsel_Lapin (#4)
Biggest Detractor(s): HBJDubs, Seanchan, Johnbobb, BlueCrystalTear (#11)

10. Oliver James (Track #11)
Score: 45 (Average Rank: 7.7/11)
Biggest Fan(s): RyoCaliente, MetalmindStats (#3)
Biggest Detractor(s): Mr Lasastryke (#11)

9. Sun It Rises (Track #1)
Score: 45 (Average Rank: 7.5/11)
Biggest Fan(s): MetalmindStats (#4)
Biggest Detractor(s): ChichiriMuyo (#11)

8. Tiger Mountain Peasant Song (Track #4)
Score: 51 (Average Rank: 7/11)
Biggest Fan(s): CasanovaZelos (#3)
Biggest Detractor(s): Seanchan, Mr Lasastryke, MetalmindStats (#10)

7. He Doesn't Know Why (Track #6)
Score: 62 (Average Rank: 6.1/11)
Biggest Fan(s): Raetsel_Lapin, Mr Lasastryke, BlueCrystalTear (#3)
Biggest Detractor(s): RyoCaliente (#11)

6. Heard Them Stirring (Track #7)
Score: 63 (Average Rank: 6.5/11)
Biggest Fan(s): HBJDubs, ChichiriMuyo (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): CasanovaZelos, Raetsel_Lapin, MetalmindStats (#11)

5. Quiet Houses (Track #5)
Score: 70 (Average Rank: 5.7/11)
Biggest Fan(s): RyoCaliente, Mr Lasastryke, Johnbobb (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): CasanovaZelos, Raetsel_Lapin (#10)

4. Blue Ridge Mountains (Track #10)
Score: 79 (Average Rank: 4.7/11)
Biggest Fan(s): CasanovaZelos, Raetsel_Lapin, Seanchan (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): RyoCaliente, Johnbobb (#8)

3. Your Protector (Track #8)
Score: 84 (Average Rank: 4.4/11)
Biggest Fan(s): HBJDubs, MetalmindStats, BlueCrystalTear (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): CasanovaZelos (#8)

2. Ragged Wood (Track #3)
Score: 92 (Average Rank: 4.1/11)
Biggest Fan(s): RyoCaliente, Raetsel_Lapin, Mr Lasastryke (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): ChichiriMuyo (#8)

1. White Winter Hymnal (Track #2)
Score: 113 (Average Rank: 2.9/11)
Biggest Fan(s): CasanovaZelos, Seanchan, Johnbobb, MetalmindStats, BlueCrystalTear (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Raetsel_Lapin (#9)

Fleet Foxes' self-titled results

The participants sorted by deviation from final results:
Seanchan (14)
Johnbobb (18)
ChichiriMuyo (18)
BlueCrystalTear (18)
HBJDubs (20)
Mr Lasastryke (28)
MetalmindStats (30)
RyoCaliente (32)
CasanovaZelos (34)
Raetsel_Lapin (40)

General Album Comments

ChichiriMuyo: This album is probably going to take a few re-listens before I can really rank the tracks. In my first listen I've just liked each track more than the last, which can't be true. I think I've just hit love at first listen with this one. You're absolutely right Zelos, this album is almost as pleasing to listen to as an album can be.

Seanchan: Did a first listen today. Certainly a different sound than last week, that's for sure!

Got some strong Lumineers vibes from some songs. (Excuse my lack of other reference points as I bring them up again...) There's a bit of a choir/church-y kind of vibe going on here as well that I'm not sure I'm super big on?

Definitely going to take a few more listens to get my thoughts sorted out.

CasanovaZelos: As their career went on, Fleet Foxes started making a sound best described as 'atmospheric folk.' Their debut feels comparatively tangible but still, well, fleeting. It's the type of album I can turn on and feel safe in, pure comfort. Time passes faster with an album like this, but that is not to say it leaves no impact - Fleet Foxes shifts effortlessly between pastoral and mountainous, like an all-encompassing portrait of America sometime during the great expansion. Fleet Foxes really carved a niche of their own while remaining completely accessible, as if they captured the sound of some forgotten era.

Seanchan: Did a 2nd listen today. This is going to be one of those tough to rank albums, despite there being only 11 songs. I'm pretty sure I've got the #1 locked, and maybe a general idea of the other top 3-4 but after that, who knows. (Unfortunately but not really) There's no bad, easy to shove to the bottom, songs here.

RyoCaliente: I didn't think this album was bad, but it also struggled to leave an impact on me. I found most of the songs very easily and quickly forgettable, even though they were all enjoyable to listen too. It just never felt like a song was going to do something special or unique.

Seanchan (responding to RyoCaliente): I have to echo much of this sentiment, though I think on the whole I'm slightly more positive about it. As I said previously, there's no bad songs here but there's also nothing that really grabbed me. I have a feeling this is more of a slow burn album that probably grows on you over a time frame longer than a week.

Mr Lasastryke: This is one of my favorite albums of all time. I think the entire top 9 is fantastic. The bottom 2 songs are not as strong, but they're still good indie folk songs.

ChichiriMuyo: This album is all moods. While listening I felt like I was on a cross-country trip to relive a memory I never had. It oscillates between warm and comfortable to cold and lonely, but it is in the end a wonderous journey. This is an album from which I doubt I'd ever listen to a single. It must be experienced as a whole to really get the most out of it. This was a difficult album to rank the tracks, and if I did it again in a week I'm sure everything but number 1 and number 11 would probably be different (like my initial ranking a week ago), but to me that just says how good it is throughout.

BlueCrystalTear: I found each song pleasant to listen to in the moment, but found it hard to remember or distinguish most of them. It's a very even record and thus works well as an album, even if it suffers due to a lack of clear singles. In short, the songs are all good on their own but, when put together, fail to stand out from one another. I'd never heard of Fleet Foxes before, or at least didn't remember them, but I'd certainly say this is impressive but still very hard to rank.

Previous results can be seen here:
https://board8.fandom.com/wiki/Rank_the_Tracks

The rules:
1. Listen to the album in full
2. Rank every track on the album
3. For the results, there will be a curve at the top of each list; two additional points between #1 and #2, and one additional point for the next two ranks. This way, the songs that really stick out to someone get an edge that is not immediately negated by someone else putting it lower. In the case of Demon Days, someone's 15th track will get 1 point, 14th 2 points, 4th 12 points, 3rd 14 points, 2nd 16 points, and 1st 19 points. For albums with greater than 15 tracks, everything ranked below #15 will be given 0 points and the scale for the top 15 will be the same as a 15-track album. For albums with more than 20 tracks, you only have to list your top 15 (with 16-20, I still like having the average rank listed)
4. If you want to include comments for individual songs, I will compile them in the results
5. The results will be posted at the beginning of the next topic
6. The deadline to vote is Sunday, February 6 at 8:00 AM EST - though if you are for whatever reason listening to the album around that time, just say so in the topic and I can delay a bit
7. You can sign up to be added to the user cycle - the next person on the list will choose 3 albums which the other users will vote on for the next topic.
7a. To ensure people are being given an actual choice, the three nominated albums must be by different artists. You can otherwise stick to a similar sound or era.
7b. The tiebreaker for these polls will be whichever is listed first in the poll options - make sure to deliver the results in order of your own preference (which will hopefully have the added benefit of influencing people toward your first choice if they can't decide).

Dua Lipa's Future Nostalgia track list:
1. Future Nostalgia
2. Don't Start Now
3. Cool
4. Physical
5. Levitating
6. Pretty Please
7. Hallucinate
8. Love Again
9. Break My Heart
10. Good in Bed
11. Boys Will Be Boys

User Cycle:
2/6: Giggsalot (Tom Waits - Rain Dogs)
2/13: RyoCaliente (Bloc Party - Silent Alarm)
2/20: darkx
2/27: neonreaper
3/6: Great_Paul
3/13: jcgamer107
3/20: ChichiriMuyo
3/27: ChainLTTP
4/3: BlueCrystalTear
4/10: MetalmindStats
4/17: HBJDubs
4/24: TheArkOfTurus
5/1: Snake5555555555
5/8: Jesse_Custer
5/15: ZaziGuado
5/22: firefdr
5/29: SpikeSetsFire
6/5: Johnbobb
6/12: VeryInsane
6/19: CasanovaZelos
6/26: Seanchan

last day to vote

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This is the quote that has stuck with me:
The so-called psychotically depressed person who tries to kill herself doesnt do so out of quote hopelessness or any abstract conviction that lifes assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fires flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. Its not desiring the fall; its terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling Dont! and Hang on!, can understand the jump. Not really. Youd have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling.

As their career went on, Fleet Foxes started making a sound best described as 'atmospheric folk.' Their debut feels comparatively tangible but still, well, fleeting. It's the type of album I can turn on and feel safe in, pure comfort. Time passes faster with an album like this, but that is not to say it leaves no impact - Fleet Foxes shifts effortlessly between pastoral and mountainous, like an all-encompassing portrait of America sometime during the great expansion. Fleet Foxes really carved a niche of their own while remaining completely accessible, as if they captured the sound of some forgotten era.

My ranking:
White Winter Hymnal
Blue Ridge Mountains
Tiger Mountain Peasant Song
Ragged Wood
Oliver James
He Doesn't Know Why
Sun It Rises
Your Protector
Meadowlarks
Quiet Houses
Heard Them Stirring

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I'm still surprised they haven't simply made a new Pokemon Stadium/Battle Revolution for the Switch. Have one hub game where any Pokemon can fight - still would be a cheap cash-in, but at least it would give us some way to have an open format if they insist on the main games having limited rosters.

It's actually been a few years since I listened to my own nomination

I saw the trailer before Belle - it made the film look like an early 2000s direct-to-video special, even with an apparent $40,000,000 budget. Also rocking a 30 on Metacritic. There are actually quite a few movies that get made and go unreleased each year, so I'm surprised they pushed this one out.

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I'm gonna copy over Giggsalot's comment from last topic so it can at least be in the wiki - with his vote, There She Goes Again would have fallen two spots while everything else remains the same:

Giggsalot: so, I actually listened to this for the first time in years and I enjoyed it slightly more than I remembered! that said, I'm definitely in the minority in this topic in that I kind of wish the album was more weird and abrasive, rather than less (I am also definitely in the minority in preferring nico's weirdo folk records like desertshore to anything by VU or reed). I'm a bit fan of the john cale's electric viola drones here, especially in venus in furs, but the closer this gets to "regular" 60s rock music the more I lose interest (exceptions made for sunday morning, which is cute as buttons, and european son, which is pretty rubbish).

anyway, this topic has been fascinating because I figured that: i) VU&nico was such a classic that most people would have heard it already, and ii) the last half-century of music - so much if it influenced directly by this - had taken away some of the mystery and shock factor. that a 50 year old record, and not a completely avant-garde one at that (this isn't stockhausen), can still inspire such visceral and polarized reactions is a beautiful and super cool thing.

I hope my adoration for Velvet Underground & Nico doesn't scare people away from my own week - Fleet Foxes is on the complete opposite end of the spectrum, an album trying to be as sonically pleasant as possible.

RyoCaliente did not provide any comments - the three albums are all classics in alternative rock. Bloc Party and The White Stipes are from the early 2000s, The Smiths from the 80s. Here's a sample of the most famous song off each album if that helps anyone decide.

Bloc Party - Banquet:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdkmhquF60o

The Smiths - There is a Light That Never Goes Out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siO6dkqidc4

The White Stripes - Seven Nation Army:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0J2QdDbelmY

The Velvet Underground and Nico track ranking

11. The Black Angel's Death Song (Track #10)
Score: 43 (Average Rank: 8.5/11)
Biggest Fan(s): Johnbobb (#3)
Biggest Detractor(s): Mr Lasastryke, Seanchan (#11)

rwlh: My favorite parts of this song are the JSSSSHHHHH deflation noise and the discordant viola. Thats a very unique flavor.

10. European Son (Track #11)
Score: 56 (Average Rank: 7.67/11)
Biggest Fan(s): Mr Lasastryke, Johnbobb (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): CasanovaZelos, ChichiriMuyo, BlueCrystalTear, MetalmindStats (#11)

rwlh: oh this seems like a normal sonHEY THERE LION AND GLASS BREAKING uh yeah give me more sound effects in rock music, apparently thats a thing I like. The guitar solo that follows the glass is I guess what they would call raw. I think Ive gotten used to the feedback by this point that I barely even notice it, but its especially prominent in this song. It helps create this feeling of being overwhelmed in a really uncomfortable way (in a good way). The song is just utter chaos by the end. Unfortunately, I stopped paying attention to it, so its docked a few points from that.

9. Run Run Run (Track #5)
Score: 60 (Average Rank: 7.33/11)
Biggest Fan(s): Seanchan, MetalmindStats (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): CasanovaZelos, HBJDubs, BlueCrystalTear, VeryInsane (#10)

rwlh: Ive heard this one before, many years ago, and its so catchy that its occasionally popped into my head ever since! I honestly wouldnt have expected such a catchy refrain from this album. Ive always thought it was interesting when songs have random one-second dips in volume. Run Run Run has a few of them. I can only assume theyre intentional?

8. I'll Be Your Mirror (Track #9)
Score: 61 (Average Rank: 7.08/11)
Biggest Fan(s): ChichirMuyo, HBJDubs (#3)
Biggest Detractor(s): Jesse_Custer (#11)

rwlh: Not much to say about this one either! Poor Nico.

7. There She Goes Again (Track #8)
Score: 62 (Average Rank: 7.25/11)
Biggest Fan(s): ChichirMuyo (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): VeryInsane, Johnbobb (#11)

rwlh: I dont envy any song that has to follow Heroin, though this would probably rank low even with favorable placement. Not much to really say about it.

6. All Tomorrow's Parties (Track #6)
Score: 73 (Average Rank: 6.25/11)
Biggest Fan(s): BlueCrystalTear (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Raetsel_Lapin, rwlh (#11)

rwlh: Not really into this one. Maybe its the slower pace? Like with Femme Fatale, I like Nicos singing but I havent been digging her tracks as much. I did like the sped up guitar near the end, contrasted with the regular pace of the rest of the song.

5. Femme Fatale (Track #3)
Score: 85 (Average Rank: 5.5/11)
Biggest Fan(s): Mr Lasastryke (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): HBJDubs (#11)

rwlh: Wow that is some feedback on that mic. I like Nicos vocals. The best descriptor I can think of for them is classy and a little sad. This song is fine but a bit underwhelming compared to the first two.

4. I'm Waiting for the Man (Track #2)
Score: 94 (Average Rank: 4.67/11)
Biggest Fan(s): ChichiriMuyo (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): HBJDubs, MetalmindStats, Johnbobb (#7)

rwlh: Im Waiting for the Man didnt hold my interest until the line about brownstones (or thereabouts). For some reason, maybe it was hearing the somewhat repetitive backing enough times, that was when the song begun to click for me. If it were half the length, I honestly dont think I would have enjoyed it nearly as much.

3. Venus in Furs (Track #4)
Score: 98 (Average Rank: 4.67/11)
Biggest Fan(s): Jesse_Custer (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Mr Lasastryke, MetalmindStats (#9)

rwlh: This song starts out overwhelming, with discordant guitar and deep, low drumming. I really love the effect, its very gripping. The rest of the song keeps that vibe going. The specific guitar work reminds me a bit of the Indian music influences that were prominent in rock music when this album was released I wonder if thats intentional. Notably, this was the only song on the album to make me smile; I really got into it.

2. Sunday Morning (Track #1)
Score: 107 (Average Rank: 3.92/11)
Biggest Fan(s): HBJDubs (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): ChichiriMuyo (#8)

rwlh: Sunday Morning feels trippy and psychedelic, a nice way set a tone for the album (we shall see if it keeps this tone!).

1. Heroin (Track #7)
Score: 137 (Average Rank: 3.17/11)
Biggest Fan(s): CasanovaZelos, Raetsel_Lapin, rwlh, VeryInsane, Seanchan, MetalmindStats, Johnbobb (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): ChichiriMuyo (#10)

rwlh: I knew going in that this was the big song from the album. It doesnt disappoint. I love the ebb and flow, starting off quiet and contemplative, then swelling into a big burst of energy, then dropping back to a quieter pace. Im not normally one to pay attention to most lyrics, but its clear Reed paints a pretty unflinching portrait of drug use. Wikipedia says the screeching instrument is an electric viola thats super effective. Heroin seems like the culmination of the album to this point.

CasanovaZelos: The first time I heard Heroin, John Cales wailing electric viola literally gave me a headache. Which is to say, I immediately fell in love and never looked back, an eternal fixture of my top two songs since I made my very first list a decade back. The appeal is in no way straightforward as I claim of so many of my other favorite songs on an album full of proto-whatever, Heroin remains the one song without significant connective tissue to music at large. Every element is so committed to supporting this sole idea that nothing could be taken or expanded upon. This exists at the forefront of experimental rock while shooting past the negative implications to land safely in the art rock zone no matter how hard this song goes, it maintains a strange accessibility.

Heroin finds four instruments and the human voice in perfect discord. The two guitars generate an introspective backbone while Moe Tuckers drumming starts with a low energy pattern. At first, Cales viola joins to merely drone in the backbone, Tuckers drumming picking up speed. Heroin is marked by crescendos, in which the drums threaten to skitter off while the viola begins to sear. Lou Reed delivers a quiet certitude, musing over the chaotic state of the world and citing heroin as the easy escape. Cales viola is the drug itself, Tuckers frantic drumming the rush. By the final crescendo, things truly go off the rails Moe Tucker momentarily stops drumming, so overwhelmed by the chaos. The viola transitions into a wailing monstrosity, yet Reeds certain voice ties everything together. This is a song so ahead of its time that it only dates itself through a Vietnam reference. Heroin may not be pleasant, but it exists as a riveting experience of music without limits.

General Album Comments (Continued)

VeryInsane: As someone who nominated Doolittle and kinda recognize the same people liking/disliking both albums, I can see a bit of a comparison. Both albums are more well known for their influence and mix some gritty popish songs with some experimental songs that influenced future bands and genres.

I like Lou Reeds style and I like the honest brashness of the album, and as someone who has been learning to be a musician it allows me to realize there is more creativity to being a musician than just being really really good at your instrument a la a Hendrix or a Neil Peart. But thats just like my opinion man.

Mr Lasastryke: i agree with this. one of the reasons why i put european son (a track that most people in this topic seem to dislike) so high is that it reminded me that technically superior instrumentalists aren't necessarily superior period. i'll take this improvisation over any "technically flawless but boring as poop" yngwie malmsteen guitar solo.

MetalmindStats: I don't feel equipped to comment on this album for many reasons, but given the discussion, I wish to establish my personal appreciation for it. Even if I didn't exactly love it overall, there wasn't one song here I disliked.

ChichiriMuyo: I re-listened to Heroin since so many people are rating it so highly and I suspect I underrated it a great deal given the merits of its lyrics and its timing and such, but I'm going to let my rating stand. I'll be that outlier. I won't listen to the full album again to re-rank it. The fact is the song gave me a headache, and the album gave me a worse one. It was literally painful to listen to, and the pain keeps going even after I've stopped listening, and I just don't get how anyone could like that.

CasanovaZelos: Funnily enough, when I did my top 250 song project, I brought up how "Heroin" gave me a headache my first listen. It might be important to note that the name of the band is taken from a book on 'the sexual corruption of our age' with leather gear on the cover. "Venus in Furs" is explicitly about sadomasochism. So, to me, that first-time headache is part of the atmosphere that makes The Velvet Underground and Nico such a singular experience - this is a pain certain people are equipped to enjoy. That headache also went away with time; I think the album is a sonic encapsulation of the so-called deviancy of its time. It's messy, dissonant, sometimes painful, but the world of art opens up to so much more potential once you adjust to its existence.

The Velvet Underground and Nico results

The participants sorted by deviation from final results:
CasanovaZelos (12)
BlueCrystalTear (16)
Raetsel_Lapin (18)
VeryInsane (20)
Jesse_Custer (22)
rwlh (24)
MetalmindStats (26)
Seanchan (28)
HBJDubs (32)
ChichiriMuyo (36)
Johnbobb (36)
Mr Lasastryke (38)

General Album Comments

CasanovaZelos: The Velvet Underground and Nico was among the first dozen albums I listened to when I really got into popular music near the beginning of last decade. From that first listen up through a year or two ago, it held my #1 spot, only outdone by Kate Bush's Hounds of Love (a position it could easily take back with my next all-time list update). This is an album where the modifier 'proto' can be applied to half a dozen genres - this is the beginning of so many alternative forms. What's truly shocking is how abrasive it remains even half a century later - despite several harsher genres becoming popular staples in the decades since, a track like "Heroin" still hurts in the best way. I predict this will be among our wildest results, a war between those who embrace the oddities for the paths they opened and those who find safety in the more traditional pieces. Either way, half the tracks on this album are all-time classics and the remaining pieces are all strong. A wild ride showcasing how much popular music advanced throughout the 1960s.

Seanchan: Did a first listen to The Velvet Underground. Uh, lets just say I can totally see why this didn't have a lot of commercial success

ChichiriMuyo: What to say about The Velvet Underground & Nico? This album is essentially trolling in the pre-Internet era, but not in a way that I feel I can enjoy. I felt a bit of distaste for half the songs from the moment they started, while the other half tricked me into thinking I'd like the song then the band had to violate an instrument or two... every time. I honestly never want to listen to this album again, there isn't anything to enjoy here.

Giggsalot (responding to ChichiriMuyo): Have you... never listened to artsy / experimental music before at all? (If so, that's fine!) It's completely reasonable not to like VU&Nico - I said already that I don't think much of it myself! - but this is one of the most beloved and influential records of all time. To suggest that either the band themselves or their fans are somehow insincere or trolling is an absolutely baffling take.

Mr Lasastryke: in fairness, i'm pretty sure the critical reaction to VU&N was fairly mixed when it first came out. it didn't gain "one of the greatest albums of all time" status until much later.

CasanovaZelos: I don't know how much of it was the initial reaction being mixed and how much was the record company simply not giving it a chance. It's not fair to imply people from the 60s rejected it - too few were even exposed to it to form an opinion. But I'm pretty sure it started becoming a big deal throughout the 70s when Lou Reed's solo career took off and people checked out his earlier work.

ChichiriMuyo: I've listened to "artsy" music before. Cibo Matto - Viva! La Woman is a fantastic album that I could listen to any time. "Birthday Cake" also gets into that "instrument violation" range but then it has other songs top balance it out. "Know Your Chicken" is also weird and out there but it doesn't sound like they were trying to hurt their instruments.

The thing that bothered me about TVU+N is that it felt like there was no balance to it, they just kept going all the way every time. There really isn't anything likable in the album, it just comes off as pretentious bullshit. It feels like it exists only as an excuse for somebody to say "oh, you just don't understand art because you're not sophisticated enough." Not that anyone said that, but that's exactly what I felt even as I was listening to it, and having that Andy Warhol cover art sure doesn't help alleviate that sense. The truth is, as far as experimentation goes, they really seemed to have very few tricks up their sleeves and over-relied on the most basic and most grating of them.

BlueCrystalTear: I remember listening to this last year and loving it, confused as to how I hadn't really given it any mind before. Still love it - it's a great "mood album" that has strong lyrical themes and amazing musical composition for its time. Like I still can't believe this is 1967. There are many good things going for it - the male/female harmonies, the innovation with instrumentation, the lyrics... the only song that is awful to listen to is the last one, because it goes on for WAY too long. This is one of those albums where last place is easier than first.

rwlh: neat album! Heroin was the clear standout, but the overall picture is pretty intense and raw, with interesting aural choices.

Jesse_Custer: Figured Id give it a try because this is one of those albums Id always meant to get around to. Not a fan.

ZaziGuado: I gave the album a listen a few days ago. It was alright, though nothing that inspired me to want to go back and try to rank the tracks. I remember Heroin and Sunday Morning being the standouts. I turned it off before European Son finished because I was not feeling that track at all. Run Run Run sounded like what I imagine typical 60s Rock n' Roll to sound like. Whether that's true or not I'm unsure.

There's potentially there for me to like a straightforward album, so perhaps someday I'll give their third album a try given how CZ described it.

VeryInsane: Even as the one who nominated this album and has probably listened to it at least two dozen times, this album was still hard as hell to rank. The styles of each of the songs are different in some way, ranging from psychedelic pop to predecessors to various other movements ranging from punk to noise rock. Took me a while to think.

Seanchan: Straight up, I don't like this album. I don't enjoy Lou Reed's singing. I enjoy Nico's singing even less. A lot of the instrumentation is just abrasive. I ranked Heroin #1 if just because it was kinda interesting with the whole heartbeat thing, but I can't say there's a single song here I truly enjoyed and there's no chance I ever listen to this album ever again.

With that said, I'm glad to have listened to it if it's considered a "classic" but absolutely did not "get it" at all. If this got popular after the fact because of Lou Reed's solo career, well, I have to wonder if it was just because of people trying to like it, willing themself to like it, deluding themself to like it so they could be part of some weird "in" crowd.

Or maybe I'm just "basic" and have no fucking taste. I fully recognize that's a very distinct possibility.

Raetsel_Lapin: I don't usually comment on albums, but I'd like to be on the record as having enjoyed this one. It's not one of my absolute favorites, but there were some great songs and there weren't any songs I strongly disliked. Just a solid album all around.

Mr Lasastryke: i understand being confused by the universal praise this album received, really. like, every critic listed on wikipedia gave it a perfect score. i love the album but i think it's far from flawless.

Previous results can be seen here:
https://board8.fandom.com/wiki/Rank_the_Tracks

The rules:
1. Listen to the album in full
2. Rank every track on the album
3. For the results, there will be a curve at the top of each list; two additional points between #1 and #2, and one additional point for the next two ranks. This way, the songs that really stick out to someone get an edge that is not immediately negated by someone else putting it lower. In the case of Demon Days, someone's 15th track will get 1 point, 14th 2 points, 4th 12 points, 3rd 14 points, 2nd 16 points, and 1st 19 points. For albums with greater than 15 tracks, everything ranked below #15 will be given 0 points and the scale for the top 15 will be the same as a 15-track album. For albums with more than 20 tracks, you only have to list your top 15 (with 16-20, I still like having the average rank listed)
4. If you want to include comments for individual songs, I will compile them in the results
5. The results will be posted at the beginning of the next topic
6. The deadline to vote is Sunday, January 30 at 8:00 AM EST - though if you are for whatever reason listening to the album around that time, just say so in the topic and I can delay a bit
7. You can sign up to be added to the user cycle - the next person on the list will choose 3 albums which the other users will vote on for the next topic.
7a. To ensure people are being given an actual choice, the three nominated albums must be by different artists. You can otherwise stick to a similar sound or era.
7b. The tiebreaker for these polls will be whichever is listed first in the poll options - make sure to deliver the results in order of your own preference (which will hopefully have the added benefit of influencing people toward your first choice if they can't decide).

Fleet Foxes' self-titled track list:
1. Sun It Rises
2. White Winter Hymnal
3. Ragged Wood
4. Tiger Mountain Peasant Song
5. Quiet Houses
6. He Doesn't Know Why
7. Heard Them Stirring
8. Your Protector
9. Meadowlarks
10. Blue Ridge Mountains
11. Oliver James

User Cycle:
1/30: Seanchan (Dua Lipa - Future Nostalgia)
2/6: Giggsalot (Tom Waits - Rain Dogs)
2/13: RyoCaliente
2/20: darkx
2/27: neonreaper
3/6: Great_Paul
3/13: jcgamer107
3/20: ChichiriMuyo
3/27: ChainLTTP
4/3: BlueCrystalTear
4/10: MetalmindStats
4/17: HBJDubs
4/24: TheArkOfTurus
5/1: Snake5555555555
5/8: Jesse_Custer
5/15: ZaziGuado
5/22: firefdr
5/29: SpikeSetsFire
6/5: Johnbobb
6/12: VeryInsane
6/19: CasanovaZelos

ChichiriMuyo posted...

I re-listened to Heroin since so many people are rating it so highly and I suspect I underrated it a great deal given the merits of its lyrics and its timing and such, but I'm going to let my rating stand. I'll be that outlier. I won't listen to the full album again to re-rank it. The fact is the song gave me a headache, and the album gave me a worse one. It was literally painful to listen to, and the pain keeps going even after I've stopped listening, and I just don't get how anyone could like that.

Funnily enough, when I did my top 250 song project, I brought up how "Heroin" gave me a headache my first listen. It might be important to note that the name of the band is taken from a book on 'the sexual corruption of our age' with leather gear on the cover. "Venus in Furs" is explicitly about sadomasochism. So, to me, that first-time headache is part of the atmosphere that makes The Velvet Underground and Nico such a singular experience - this is a pain certain people are equipped to enjoy. That headache also went away with time; I think the album is a sonic encapsulation of the so-called deviancy of its time. It's messy, dissonant, sometimes painful, but the world of art opens up to so much more potential once you adjust to its existence.

I want to copy what I wrote about Heroin here so I can justify using it in the results presentation:
The first time I heard Heroin, John Cales wailing electric viola literally gave me a headache. Which is to say, I immediately fell in love and never looked back, an eternal fixture of my top two songs since I made my very first list a decade back. The appeal is in no way straightforward as I claim of so many of my other favorite songs on an album full of proto-whatever, Heroin remains the one song without significant connective tissue to music at large. Every element is so committed to supporting this sole idea that nothing could be taken or expanded upon. This exists at the forefront of experimental rock while shooting past the negative implications to land safely in the art rock zone no matter how hard this song goes, it maintains a strange accessibility.

Heroin finds four instruments and the human voice in perfect discord. The two guitars generate an introspective backbone while Moe Tuckers drumming starts with a low energy pattern. At first, Cales viola joins to merely drone in the backbone, Tuckers drumming picking up speed. Heroin is marked by crescendos, in which the drums threaten to skitter off while the viola begins to sear. Lou Reed delivers a quiet certitude, musing over the chaotic state of the world and citing heroin as the easy escape. Cales viola is the drug itself, Tuckers frantic drumming the rush. By the final crescendo, things truly go off the rails Moe Tucker momentarily stops drumming, so overwhelmed by the chaos. The viola transitions into a wailing monstrosity, yet Reeds certain voice ties everything together. This is a song so ahead of its time that it only dates itself through a Vietnam reference. Heroin may not be pleasant, but it exists as a riveting experience of music without limits.