Lurker > Lopen

Amusingly that's probably one of the first things that would surface in the first battle between the two were it something that's truly likely to happen, meaning Rikku can lead with purifying salt on .EXE on the second encounter and allow Bass to mosh him proper. Perhaps Bass would instagib Geo on the second run, then Rikku follows up with purifying salt at .EXE, then Bass engages .EXE properly. Or perhaps there could be some sorta tandem move where Rikku tosses salt at the guy and then Bass like a buffed robotic Yokozuna drops BANZAI on .EXE out of a phasewalk while he's wiping the salt away.
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Here's basically how I see the second fight going. Keep in mind that Liquid Link's team is going to have a fairly good idea of the enemy's position based on their pace and when they last fought them, and have visors to help get the enemy team's position as well.

- Bass moshes .EXE instantly with his Power Charge'd Tetrakarn'd opening Nova Beam flurry out of a phasewalk. With him out of the picture, any particular .EXE weaknesses Bass has will be neutralized, as well as one of the enemy's dispel abilities
- Bass engages Geostellar as the Mega Men are in chaos. Geostellar's probably dead pretty quick, and dispelling is probably not his go to as I imagine he's trying to defend himself from Bass.
- Meanwhile, Kirby + Duke tandem freeze Volnutt, Classic, or X.
- Link spams Thunder, Yu spams Maziodyne or heals as needed, Rikku spams teamwide full heals or reapplies buffs as needed.

I mean the question is, where are these Megas shooting. Keep in mind there are 4 Megas left almost immediately out of the gate, and one has a big Bass in the way. So you've got 3 Megas left to shoot at some combination of

Supportive fire vs Bass (a trap, Bass isn't going down quickly enough for this to be worth it-- but not an obvious trap)
Trying to deal with Kirby + Duke, who are frontlining and potentially locking a Mega down if ignored (trying to deal with Kirby is likely a trap-- too durable with the buffs-- Duke is fairly mobile with his jetpack and tricky with his holodukes so he won't go down instantly either)
Trying to deal with Link (trap if reflect is effective, trap because he's tanky)
Trying to deal with Yu or Rikku who are primarily supporting-- probably the best move, but not an instant kill either

I think if the Megas went through the perfectly optimal sequence of targets, they might have a chance, but Rikku and Yu are probably gonna be furthest back to begin with which makes this even less likely to happen. Bass is gonna be a really enticing target as he's doing huge damage right out, as will Duke and Kirby-- but none are likely getting one shotted so the partywide full heal battery is pretty effective until taken out. It's just a lot of chaos to start, and the chaos will support the team with the numbers, higher upfront damage, and has Liquid Link who has experienced this fight oncebefore.
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In theory Bass can probably prioritize killing those with the first strike he is likely to get. It's unlikely Liquid Link is going to need to song of time immediately so they'll have some ideas of the capabilities of their opponents going in for round 2.

Keep in mind also that Rikku's buffs are actually pretty feasible to reapply in combat. She's not casting spells as much as just tossing items to dudes, and that the Megas will need to think to debuff quickly while Bass is on their face.
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I mean even assuming base link is 100 and the enemy is doing 1000

He becomes 200 after double parameters
400 after tablets
800 after Shield
1600 after protect

And that's being generous and assuming that Link would be literally killed 10 times over from one attack from a Mega Man, which seems fairly outrageous to me. Don't get me wrong, Link does not want to get shot by any means, but I'd argue he doesn't quite get one shotted by a Mega Man blast to begin with, never mind with all of his buffs.
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Sami Zayn
Braun Strowman
The Revival
Slater/Axel/Aries
Kane and the Demon King
Styles
Rollins

Bray asks gunner
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Also keep in mind with the double health of stamina tablets and the double parameters on Link and Kirby, Bass's support isn't really all that squishy. Link also has the Shield spell, which halves all damage to him, and the reflect spell might actually work against Mega Man's plasma stuff, as it tends to work against every ranged attack Link encounters in Zelda 2.

Especially with all the party full heals being thrown around-- it basically becomes "can you one shot these dudes" and if not, well, full heals for all, all over the place.

Double Parameters Kirby has some good support from his suite of Link abilities as well as Plasma, which at full power is probably doing damage that Mega Men can respect, and I feel like Duke's Freezethrower combined with Kirby's Ice ability can potentially freeze a Mega Man solid if they coordinate.
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Yo so like, Link, possessed THROUGH THIS ARM by Liquid Snake, has doubled parameters, and the ability to play the song of time to go back to start and retain all memories of the first time the fight went down. This, combined with the tactical mind of Liquid Snake (with DOUBLED PARAMETERS, for DOUBLE TACTICAL MIND) means that his team will surely be getting the first strike the second time around, as well as having full knowledge of the terrain and all its traps the second time through (though Bass's visors would make them pretty okay against this stuff anyway).

So with the first strike, Bass can use his double potency power charged (from Vishnu makes the next attack deal +250% damage, doubled potency and duration would be two attacks at +500%) shot from the Nova Beam to basically instantly kill a Mega Man. It's then up to him, using his double potency suite of buffs from Rikku (Haste doubled, Stamina Tablet for +100% HP and then doubled, Protect doubled) to basically kill all the Mega Men at once. He'll also have Tetrakarn working at double power, reflecting the first two shots against him, at double strength. And Yu can lay the buffs on even a little thicker still with Rakukaja and Tarukaja from Izanagi to increase his defense and attack.

Kirby, Link, and Duke can help provide some interference while Rikku and Yu play support roles with both of them having full party full heals (Yu can also lead with power charged Maziodyne for good damage to help Bass out) as Bass dismantles the Megas. Bass also has corruption mode and lilith's phasewalk to tap into if the going gets tough.
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I mean, when the bar is Jinder Mahal's run, Owens as champion is looking less and less offensive
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Sir Chris sexual encounter fanfiction topic go
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Your bass needs more percentage boosts
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iZombie's kinda enjoyable. I watch it on and off. The current season, whichever that is, seems kinda below standard compared to the previous ones unfortunately, however.
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Well it's not like everyone threw down and she was standing like a derp talking all alone. Everyone was talking, she was also talking-- that was the temperature of the room. This match is starting with a different feel than that one.
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Well I mean. It doesn't exactly make sense to fly around as an esper when none of your party members can do that, and she's there to help them out. You can still use morph freely in battle but there's no cutscene because there's no real moment why she'd do that.
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Dizzy's drawback is her personality, which is still a thing despite there not being bold text that says she won't attack anyone.

Would probably take Raiden to win on this terrain anyway assuming anything but gamefaqs dizzy who tries to blow up the entire terrain though. He's getting the drop on her and carving her up pretty cleanly here I think.
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I mean, you're on a team of three where your two allies are melee combatants, and while competent with a sword you're still a mage at heart. In what universe is the go to move to bust out your sword and go to town here? She might as well be a berserker I'd find it more forgivable.
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Doesn't Raiden have ripper mode?
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DeathChicken posted...

Honestly the more logical thing to do is for her to melee at this range

lmao called it
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Fighting in self defense to me just says "they're free to ignore Id until they kill everyone else"

But the problem is they still have to kill Id which requires a very specific strategy to do for this team.
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Well the issue is more that Drac's projectiles are telegraphed. He kinda needs to put you in an "aw crap" zone of death caused by overlapping a bunch of wide AoE spells. At that point it's necessary to trance and get the hell outta there. Like yes, he can cast faster. No, it's not relevant in a mage duel because his projectiles move too damn slow to interrupt the other mage's spellcasting.
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I mean if it's not needed then... it's not needed. Probably means Cloud and Archer are holding the front.

You're arguing that it would be needed, and I'm saying in that instance she'd go into trance (because it doesn't exactly have a magical girl transformation sequence) and create a bit of distance.
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Well, there's a certain cringe sour spot that you don't want to land in ever. You either need to gratuitously fly over that level like with waifu, or you need to rein it in a bit. This one hit the dead zone because you waffled on which cringe level you were going for I think. Indecision is the seed of defeat as they say.

I'm glad you're happy though. I'm just critiquing the delivery here!
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Now I'm the last one you'll see praising Terra's character but I think you skipped over like 70% of the game's development for her there. Starting with morph isn't too weird. Terra's character flaws by endgame are more of the "she isn't going to drop Ultima here because she's afraid it'll splash damage her friends" than "she's terrified to morph or do anything that isn't mope about the poor children"

I don't think she'll be operating at full potential by any means, but some basic flying backwards against some melee types isn't weird nor is it anything I didn't envision happening (because I figured it'd be implied that "cast holy" isn't "derp and stand like a turret and immediately holy" especially in a match where we're arguing Kuja flies to start) and dropping some spells isn't anything too weird.
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I never thought Courage was creepy. Definitely a weird show to be sure-- maybe if I saw it when I was younger I don't know.
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Yo's presentation was more ridiculous in general so what might in a different context be a cringeworthy line fit in better.
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Yeah I'll take peak Aries over peak Roode every time. Roode cutting his hair like Triple H is pretty fitting cause that's the kind of guy he is. Not too impressive on his own, but a solid all around package in and out of the ring and can be carried to a good match or feud if the opponent is good enough or has enough heat behind him.

I like Roode but if he had Hunter's booking I'd probably hate him too. Aries is way better when he's on.
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Well, the big issue is 3 seconds is not a window you need to be Barry Allen to perform evasive action in. People are generally not dying before they do anything.

Like I said it's a small terrain it's not "so cramped you can't move before you get hit" like you're selling it as (while simultaneously selling it as the opposite for Kuja who can apparently get away from a much quicker Archer with ease while Terra has issues dodging "much lower than Archer speed" projectiles because she's not the Flash or something).
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I disagree with that interpretation of the size. If you take the height of Sora's character model, lay it face down, inch it towards Darkside, it's probably about 6-8 Soras, or 30-40 feet. Why you can strike Darkside so fast is because a 40 foot tall monster leers over at you, which covers quite a lot of distance on its own.

Regardless, given the properties of Drac's first form attacks, you can literally be like, right on top of him, and it won't instagib you. Because they're all about zoning more than strike speed and hella telegraphed. Like the dark balls stay in his cape for a second regardless of travel distance. The pillar doesn't even care about distance as long as "you're within this range I can start sprouting a pillar under you" but there's also dodge window at no matter what distance.
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Yeah that's more the "needs a better tactician" end for me.

Like, I dunno, maybe the X-Ray Visor can punch through the wall of the boss room AND Weltall, allowing Bass to see "hey there's a dude in there" before said dude is attacking like a nut in self defense?

That actually might make it more viable.
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The arena you face Dracula in is of pretty comparable size to this terrain actually. Charlotte "don't call me Allen" Aulin can dodge these first form attacks at fairly close range without breaking a sweat.

Drac's good at a lot of things but "instantly killing a dude before they can react" does not play to his strengths.
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Eddv posted...

If it is he can just telespam into the cockpit and i frankly think he beats flailing Id inside a cockpit

Yeah that would work too

Anyone can beat him by getting into the cockpit (Diablo, Bass, and Lucina have viable entry methods) but it seems like a strategy that needs a stronger tactician or out of character knowledge to accomplish
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Would those be the barrage of dark energy balls that form in his cape for about a second before moving slightly faster than walking speed or the flame pillars that simmer under your feet for a good second before erupting.
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Okay. Which one do you think he uses to tag her before she can morph.
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Which spell in particular do you think Dracula uses against a flying Terra I'm just curious.
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Oh. I thought the terrain was different for some reason.

Weltall Id

Just don't see a way to take him down here. I think GameFAQs Lucina might be able but yeah in a typical fight it just isn't happening.
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Kuja has mastered flying back but Terra has not it seems. Probably because she's too busy frothing mad like a BA SA KA.
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The bubble is honestly fine-- I think booking cruisers against heavyweights isn't good as it exposes their size more than needed.

It's just... it needs to be less visible. Significantly so. Being segregated without it being quite so explicit is the key.
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I think Weltall Id isn't very useful here and his team gets stomped without him. But there comes the issue of, at the end, how do they kill Weltall, even acknowledging it only fights in self defense

I think with the right strategy this could be done but I don't know if Vanille's team has the strategic mind to do so. I mean maybe Bass can just have Samus's Gunship carpet bomb Weltall Id repeatedly. That honestly might work.
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That's kinda true.

WCW had the right idea. You generally segregate the cruisers, but you don't hold a giant neon sign that says "LOOK AT HOW DIFFERENT THESE GUYS ARE." You let the different style do that for them.

Like even on Raw they have a whole damn set overhaul for all their matches, never mind the show.
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I think the more you try and say the terrain is non-conducive to flying the more it screws Kuja's chances here since Archer is much faster than Sora or Dracula. Dracula in particular, while he can cast quicker in theory, the stuff he casts is very telegraphed and slow, so he's not likely to hit a flying opponent with it very easily-- not without some setup. It's just not the type of magic you just bust out and crack a dude's head open instantly with. It's the kind of stuff where the opening volleys are used to trap the opponent into a situation where he has to eat damage to avoid the later volleys.

But I mean I can see the video either way-- it's close but there is in fact breathing room. It's probably closer to 30 feet than 5. I think both him and Terra getting into the air is something that is possible.
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I thought Aries was fine and did as well as you could expect given his slotting on the card. Definitely wasn't carried by Neville or anything like that. Never hit his heights in other feds but I storylines being less compelling were largely to blame for that I think.
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But maybe flying and casting is too complex if your name isn't Kuja I don't know
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I thought she was running into the enemy team attacking like a berserker without regard for her team's plan actually
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Aries stepping out is a huge blow for my interest in the Raw roster.
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I mean you're going on about how Kuja can freely cast because he has people in front

Terra has better people in front, and while in trance can fly just like him. She's relevant for 30 seconds at least, I figure.
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Yeah as far as relevance goes Terra's far more useful than Alice here because she's actually doing something. Holy can do good damage to Drac, her nukes do good damage to the others, and she won't be immediately pressured. Alice on the other hand is a frontline fighter against a frontline that just sorta destroys her.

Alice can in theory contribute at the level of Terra in a normal match, but like, against Archer she's sort of just ignored-- just straight up outclassed like 10 times over to the point where he's not even putting any effort or attention into killing her if she approaches. Carrying Shirou, something he does for a while while battling Caster, probably is legit more effort than killing her because it's occupying an arm for a longer time.
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No no, I'm acknowledging she's there I'm just accurately portraying her contribution in a fight with Archer.

Ilya's taunting is probably more distracting, in fact.
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Well Ilya, who is probably contributing about as much as Alice, was around when he fought Berserker.
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I'm talking about if you threw Kuja into the scene where Rin beat the crap out of Caster in the role of Caster. Not this one so much, which is better for him than that scenario to be sure (and yeah, better starting position than he would be against the FF party though there are no Archers in the FF party either)
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MrSmartGuy posted...

Aw fuck I just realized this topic ruins the whole B8/CE "search girl" thing.

Well it reads like a topic from CE so that result fits.
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Well FF9 party faces Kuja in a very different scenario. Much better starting position for him, and he's not getting sucker punched

Also Rin's buffed out the ass with super gems.
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