Lurker > Hornezz

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Topic	Saw image and thought of the 'do you think Israel will cost Biden the election?'
Hornezz 04/05/24 12:55:11 AM #165	hockeybabe89 posted... What's stopping them from going scorched earth? They have a strong military. They have missiles. They have nukes. We've already given them billions over the years. And they'd have nothing left to lose. They could wipe Palestinians off the planet in a day. If Biden has done all he can to prevent that, then we cannot blame him for that. As of now though, he has not done everything he can. I'd argue that as awful as things are, Israel is still holding back because they love that sweet US support. Based off what? "the Israeli campaign would not be sustainable without this level of U.S. support" https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/03/06/us-weapons-israel-gaza/ --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Saw image and thought of the 'do you think Israel will cost Biden the election?'
Hornezz 04/05/24 12:52:56 AM #162	Rika_Furude posted... your pressure of not voting for Biden will result in a trump win when he has a higher vote count. Prove that Biden cannot possibly pivot without losing the election. If this is what your entire argument hinges on for "supporting a lesser genocide", then I'm sure you have strong irrefutable evidence for that claim, right? It's his current handling that's making him lose voters, not the other way around. It's absolutely based on nothing whatsoever. --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Saw image and thought of the 'do you think Israel will cost Biden the election?'
Hornezz 04/05/24 12:49:22 AM #160	There's this bizarre reflex to defend Biden at every corner even if that means losing sight of the goal, which is getting him elected. Wild how so many of you ever seems to acknowledge that. Conversations just go: - Biden doing bad things is okay, because Trump is worse - Biden going against the wishes of his own base is okay, because Trump is worse - Biden causing his voters to stay at home is okay, because Trump is worse - Biden handing Trump the election win is... uh, well, Trump's worse Well that plus the usual accusations and name-calling of course. --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Saw image and thought of the 'do you think Israel will cost Biden the election?'
Hornezz 04/05/24 12:39:48 AM #153	Rika_Furude posted... Nobody except you is pretending there other options. Its a little thing called reality you are ignoring. I'm not expecting Rika "support the lesser genocide" Furude to accept any other option other than genocide. It's your own fucking rhetoric that's chasing away voters and risking a Trump election. --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Saw image and thought of the 'do you think Israel will cost Biden the election?'
Hornezz 04/05/24 12:36:43 AM #152	Cemith posted... Biden is facing pressure on the daily from millions of people. Good. Keep it up, there's a 6 months window of opportunity for him to pivot. And he already has changed his position, albeit in words only. Just weeks ago people here insisted I was a Biden-hating idiot for saying that was possible. --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Saw image and thought of the 'do you think Israel will cost Biden the election?'
Hornezz 04/05/24 12:33:28 AM #150	Rika_Furude posted... If your pressure means you not voting for him, and therefore you contribute to a Trump victory, did you help or did you make the situation in Israel worse? Stop pretending like a Trump victory is the only option besides accepting Biden's involvement in Gaza. It's not true. There's no evidence whatsoever that Biden would lose the election if he pivots. If you have that evidence, I'm open to seeing it. Until then, all signs say that his handling is costing him voters and threatening a trump reelection is baseless. --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Saw image and thought of the 'do you think Israel will cost Biden the election?'
Hornezz 04/05/24 12:24:33 AM #146	hockeybabe89 posted... If there are no good options, what hurts the least? No further thought needed. The good option is pressuring Biden into changing his stance. I've told you this a hundred times. But for some fucking reason you see throwing Palestinians under the bus as a more preferable option. And don't tell me it's to elect Biden. Telling people that they have no choice but to accept genocide is about the worst damn campaign message you can send to voters considering abstaining. This is hurting his election chances. edit: What even is intervening? Do we truly believe cutting support would be enough to sink Israel? Cutting off arms sales, condition future aid on certain terms. Canada and Spain did it recently, but they don't have nearly as much sway. US Presidents have done so too in the past. And yes: I linked an article above that outright stated that Israel's campaign is unsustainable without US weapons. The vast majority of Israeli weapon imports are American. The US does have that much leverage. --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Saw image and thought of the 'do you think Israel will cost Biden the election?'
Hornezz 04/05/24 12:15:43 AM #140	hockeybabe89 posted... Nope. Shut the fuck up. When you have two options, you always choose the least harm, not abstain because you want no harm. There's also the option of Biden intervening. I literally just told you this, but your one-track mind just refuses to consider options other than genocide. Like wtf is going on here. Justification of genocide would lead to instant bans just a few months ago. Is there lead in the water or something? --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Saw image and thought of the 'do you think Israel will cost Biden the election?'
Hornezz 04/05/24 12:13:06 AM #138	Cemith posted... Yes. Denying that fact is willful ignorance and nothing less. You have deluded yourself into believing that bombing Palestinians is somehow a necessary part of preventing a Trump reelection. It's complete and utter bullshit. There's no basis for this in reality. The absolute mental gymnastics needed to tell everyone for months on end that genocide is the only option whilst at the same time pretending you're fighting the good fight against fascism, is actually astounding. --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Saw image and thought of the 'do you think Israel will cost Biden the election?'
Hornezz 04/05/24 12:01:12 AM #126	[LFAQs-redacted-quote] Is it though? America has a massive leverage over Israel to pressure them. Biden has the ability to stop weapons sales when they're being used for human rights violations. Hell, it was Biden himself who wrote that policy. Experts have stated that the Israeli campaign is "unsustainable without this level of US support". https://www.state.gov/the-u-s-conventional-arms-transfer-policy/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/03/06/us-weapons-israel-gaza/ The US absolutely does have the power to intervene here and to make a difference. Not doing so is a choice. I feel like we're being way, way to eager to assume that genocide is inevitable. i am voting for the lesser amount of genocide... Just no. This is never acceptable. You start a damn revolution or stage a fucking coup for all I care before accepting genocide. There is no such thing as genocide for the greater good. --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Biden incorrectly claims he's already seen starving children in doctor's photos
Hornezz 04/04/24 4:05:51 PM #155	Casual denial of atrocities again. Not great. --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Biden incorrectly claims he's already seen starving children in doctor's photos
Hornezz 04/04/24 3:28:17 PM #139	Tanthalas posted... US policy on Israel has been to help defend it for years now. This is never a good argument. It's circular reasoning to defend the status quo just for the sake of it: "things have been like this, so they should stay like this". Either way, circumstances have changed. Israel/Palestine has always been ripe with human right violations, but things haven't been nearly this deadly or destructive before. Sticking to the same strategy no matter what is not defensible, not when the US has this much involvement in this conflict. --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Biden incorrectly claims he's already seen starving children in doctor's photos
Hornezz 04/04/24 3:13:25 PM #136	How easy the convo flips from 'we just need to stop Trump from winning' to denial of casualty figures. This is the source of the image I posted: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68387864 The BBC article does a good job analyzing the reported numbers coming from Gaza, and argues they might even be understated. Reuters came to the same conclusion: numbers are credible but perhaps underestimated: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/how-many-palestinians-have-died-gaza-war-how-will-counting-continue-2023-12-06/ IDF officials have previously stated that Hamas numbers are fairly accurate: https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-officials-15000-likely-killed-in-gaza-since-start-of-war-5000-of-them-are-hamas/ Hell, IDF internally uses the Health Ministry's number as they deem them reliable (link in Hebrew): https://tinyurl.com/5dwrxm57 --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Will the anti woke crowd gaslight us for x-men 97?
Hornezz 04/04/24 3:05:19 PM #11	It's a business model. If there's nothing to be outraged about this week, they'll pick something popular and choose to be outraged about that. --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Biden incorrectly claims he's already seen starving children in doctor's photos
Hornezz 04/04/24 2:48:16 PM #129	radical_rhino posted... LMAO check the small print, buddy What point are you making exactly? --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Biden incorrectly claims he's already seen starving children in doctor's photos
Hornezz 04/04/24 2:44:12 PM #126	Tanthalas posted... So, the only argument you have to offer is "maintaining decades of US policy towards Israel". US policy on Israel wasn't aiding in killing people by the tens of thousands in a few months time. It is now. Therefore maintaining policy of sending billions worth of bombs, knowing that they're being used for large scale atrocities, isn't a good thing. Biden bypassed congress to send more weapons, even after the ICJ had labeled the risk of genocide plausible. --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Biden incorrectly claims he's already seen starving children in doctor's photos
Hornezz 04/04/24 2:00:03 PM #118	ClayGuida posted... Will trump change that policy? He will not. He'd make it worse. Will Biden's unwillingness to make a change help win over voters and prevent Trump from doing that? --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Biden incorrectly claims he's already seen starving children in doctor's photos
Hornezz 04/04/24 1:38:55 PM #116	Tanthalas posted... Youre going to have to come up with way better than maintaining decades-long policy towards Israel and the Middle-East to prove that hes actually evil. Circumstances are different compared to the last few decades though: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/e/e77d0dff.jpg This is a very good reason for a change in policy. --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	If Biden loses the election, he has nobody to blame but himself
Hornezz 04/04/24 11:46:06 AM #22	^and for a more recent poll. Gallup last week: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/9/9e566719.png https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/e/e75c8b48.png I really don't know what the strategy is behind pretending that the disapproval is only coming from a small fringe group that the Biden campaign can safely dismiss. Dismissing these concerns is not helping him win votes. --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Israel/Palestina War XIV - The Big Attack on Rafah?
Hornezz 04/04/24 11:16:18 AM #128	DnDer posted... "International humanitarian law" is a remarkably specific phrase. What's he weaseling around with language like that? Found an answer to this. Just a year ago the Biden admin revised its arms transfer policies to include: The newly revised CAT Policy is committed to strengthening U.S. national security by reinforcing respect for human rights, international humanitarian law, democratic governance, and rule of law, by: - Preventing arms transfers that risk facilitating or otherwise contributing to violations of human rights or international humanitarian law; https://www.state.gov/the-u-s-conventional-arms-transfer-policy/ Publicly acknowledging that Israel is violating humanitarian laws, means acknowledging that the admin is breaking its own policies by supplying weapons. --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Batman arrested in Michigan
Hornezz 04/04/24 10:19:50 AM #9	The man lives a rough life, fighting crime all night long. Let him blow off some steam for once yeesh --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Biden incorrectly claims he's already seen starving children in doctor's photos
Hornezz 04/04/24 9:48:38 AM #34	Let's stop pushing the myth that 'genocide' or 'more genocide' are the only options. It's not true. There's also the option of Biden listening to criticism and changing his course. Either because he realizes it's the right thing to do, or because electoral pressure forces his hand. But for some reason people vehemently oppose that third option and would rather keep shouting that that genocide is inevitable, and that people just need to stop protesting it. --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Israel/Palestina War XIV - The Big Attack on Rafah?
Hornezz 04/04/24 6:42:15 AM #119	Flaming_Fire619 posted... You're not wrong to be angry but it's a pretty difficult balancing act. The Jewish population has voted overwhelmingly for Democrats and choosing now of all times to go against them will also result in a ton of lost votes. A majority of Americans now disapprove of Israel's actions in Gaza. Disapproval among Democrat voters is at 75%. https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx It's especially young and non-white voters who disapprove of Biden's handling so far, the groups who are more likely to abstain from voting. There's a lot more risk in continuing unconditional support for Israel. Single issue voters on this subject should see that by abstaining you're just going to put someone who is actively worse for Palestine in the White House, and worse for the US as a whole. But its still going to happen. Threatening to withhold your vote is how you pressure politicians into changing policies. This administration can choose to pivot and win those abstaining voters back. The onus should be on politicians to do what the voters want, not the other way around. Instead of criticizing voters for not condoning the complicity in Israel's atrocities, the finger should be pointed at Biden for refusing to listen to his base and thereby putting the election at risk. --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Israel/Palestina War XIV - The Big Attack on Rafah?
Hornezz 04/04/24 4:31:31 AM #116	Former supreme court judges say UK arming Israel breaches international law Three former supreme court justices, including the courts former president Lady Hale, are among more than 600 lawyers, academics and retired senior judges warning that the UK government is breaching international law by continuing to arm Israel. In a letter to the prime minister, the signatories, who also include former court of appeal judges and more than 60 KCs, say that the present situation in Gaza is catastrophic and that given the international court of justice (ICJ) finding that there is a plausible risk of genocide being committed, the UK is legally obliged to act to prevent it. The 17-page letter, which also amounts to a legal opinion, was sent on Wednesday evening and says: While we welcome the increasingly robust calls by your government for a cessation of fighting and the unobstructed entry to Gaza of humanitarian assistance, simultaneously to continue (to take two striking examples) the sale of weapons and weapons systems to Israel and to maintain threats of suspending UK aid to Unwra falls significantly short of your governments obligations under international law. More in link: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/former-supreme-court-judges-say-uk-arming-israel-breaches-international-law --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Female Silver Surfer confirmed
Hornezz 04/03/24 6:45:14 PM #45	There was a What If story where Shalla-Bal became Galactus' herald btw. So this isn't entirely unprecedented. https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/b/b1831e29.jpg --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Female Silver Surfer confirmed
Hornezz 04/03/24 6:42:18 PM #39	Haven't seen a lot of her acting so I can't judge. Don't care about Silver Surfer's gender. But absolute yes on Annihilation. MCU has a pretty decent cosmic line up for it now. Just that damned Nova missing. --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	US approves 1,800 2k-pound bombs to Israel as Rafah invasion looms
Hornezz 04/03/24 6:39:17 PM #333	Oh look it's this dude. https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/3/33e4c11e.png It said quote me on it, so I did. --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Do u think Israel is going to cost Biden the election?
Hornezz 04/03/24 5:48:03 PM #493	DrizztLink posted... The point being we can at least attempt to pressure Biden, which has actually worked on several occasions throughout his presidency. Which is exactly what I've been arguing for this whole topic. But sadly a lot of the most devout supporters would rather tell anyone pressuring that they need to fall in line or else they get the fascism. --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Do u think Israel is going to cost Biden the election?
Hornezz 04/03/24 5:43:22 PM #486	Cemith posted... Probably because if you don't vote for Biden, and Trump wins, conservatives will see to it that you can never vote again. Pretty compelling reason to vote Biden, but hey, I like having rights \ _ ( ) _ / Insisting Biden would never listen to his voters and stop supporting genocide, whilst claiming he's still entitled to the votes of his own base isn't actually preventing that. There's no reason whatsoever to believe that throwing Palestinian lives under the bus is needed for Biden to win the election. Begrudgingly accepting genocide as an inevitability isn't the brave battle against fascism you seem to think it is. --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Do u think Israel is going to cost Biden the election?
Hornezz 04/03/24 5:32:27 PM #476	Heineken14 posted... No. Oh come on. This entire topic is filled with people arguing that Biden deserves the vote even if he ignores his voters' demands. --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Do u think Israel is going to cost Biden the election?
Hornezz 04/03/24 5:19:03 PM #452	Heineken14 posted... Young people have been shit on for yonks and are only recently being given any sort of attention to by politicians Are they do? 70% of dems under 45 disapprove of Biden's handling of Israel. Yet we have people arguing up and down that Biden should ignore them. --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Do u think Israel is going to cost Biden the election?
Hornezz 04/03/24 5:14:20 PM #446	Heineken14 posted... How do you convince Biden to change his stance? So far the only answer people have been able to muster is "I'm not voting for Biden." Assuming you're not a billionaire lobbyist, the only sort of leverage anyone has is their vote. Threatening to withhold your vote will work if enough people do it. If appealing to his conscience by protests isn't working, then electoral pressure will. I don't think that Biden believes unconditional support for Israel is worth handing the keys over to Trump. --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Do u think Israel is going to cost Biden the election?
Hornezz 04/03/24 5:07:51 PM #430	Heineken14 posted... So, how do you square that with the notion of not voting for Biden has the potential to put Donnie in office who will decidedly do NOT those things? That's not even getting into all of the other baggage that belongs to him. Those not voting for Biden over this issue can be convinced into voting for Biden if he actually changes his stance. And thus winning votes, and preventing Trump's win. --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Do u think Israel is going to cost Biden the election?
Hornezz 04/03/24 5:04:20 PM #421	Umbreon posted... Still no feasible suggestions given in this topic from people who insist they just can't vote Biden. Simple and straightforward answer: Biden can change his stance on Israel, use the massive leverage the US has over them and condition future arms sales and aid on Israel adhering to international human rights. --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Do u think Israel is going to cost Biden the election?
Hornezz 04/03/24 5:01:42 PM #416	Rika_Furude posted... I suggest voting for the lesser evil as opposed to supporting the greater evil. You dont get to twist that into a different meaning, troll Don't talk about supporting a genocide if you don't want people pointing out your own words. --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Do u think Israel is going to cost Biden the election?
Hornezz 04/03/24 4:55:49 PM #408	Rika_Furude posted... Thats a stretch and a half Do you support the lesser genocide by voting for Biden? re: Rika_Furude posted... Your actions speak louder than your words. Prove you support the lesser genocide by voting for Biden. If you dont, you prove you support the worse genocide. Thats all there is to it --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Do u think Israel is going to cost Biden the election?
Hornezz 04/03/24 4:53:51 PM #405	Heineken14 posted... There's a lot of posts I haven't read in this topic, but has anyone argued that genocide is a good thing? Maybe I missed it or it was someone I have/has me blocked? The whole "supporting the lesser genocide" in #206 and #235 sure comes close. --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Do u think Israel is going to cost Biden the election?
Hornezz 04/03/24 4:44:54 PM #386	SaikyoStyle posted... How does giving republicans power again help Palestine? It won't. How does arguing that 'sometimes genocide is needed for the greater good' helping Biden getting elected and preventing those republicans from getting power? --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Do u think Israel is going to cost Biden the election?
Hornezz 04/03/24 4:38:43 PM #384	Cemith posted... Not one person ITT thinks that his handling of Gaza is a win in his favor. Moderates who love Israel probably consider it a boon, if anything. Standing up to those no good Hamas. I think you're really underestimating the disapproval of Bidens handling of this conflict. According to an AP/NORC poll 70% of dems under the age 45 disapprove of his handling of Israel, and 60% of non-white dem voters. These are the groups most likely to stay home. (And this poll result was from before the recent billions of dollars arms sales) Now of course you can just tell these groups that Biden doesn't need to win them over, and that he's entitled to their vote even if he supports genocide, and that they're complicit in fascism if they take issue with that - but it's incredibly callous to think this is helping him win the election. None of the rhetoric you're sharing ITT is actually helping prevent Trump's fascism. If you do want Biden to win, you should join in on pressuring him to listen to his voters. --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Do u think Israel is going to cost Biden the election?
Hornezz 04/03/24 4:15:15 PM #351	Tanthalas posted... So we're back to: "Why aren't you asking the GOP to be better then? Why is it always the Democratic Party that has to work for your vote?" Hornezz posted... Because I have no hope of successfully arguing to Republicans that killing brown children by the thousands is actually bad and should be resisted. I'd like to think Democrats agree with that but I might be wrong. --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Do u think Israel is going to cost Biden the election?
Hornezz 04/03/24 4:13:11 PM #344	Cemith posted... But him being in office prevents my brother and his girlfriend from being put in camps. Trump's being in office doesn't. All great arguments to tell Biden he needs to do anything he can to win voters to his side. We're back in the same 'but Trump worse'-loop and ignoring the part that Biden's refusal to budge on Israel is actually what's bringing a Trump win closer. No amount of summarizing the awful things Trump would do is worth anything when what you're arguing for is actually not preventing that. --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Do u think Israel is going to cost Biden the election?
Hornezz 04/03/24 4:09:35 PM #338	Tanthalas posted... "Because the party that can be reasoned with won't give me what I want, I instead choose to help the party that will never help me win!". Outstanding logic you guys have. Biden sending bombs to Israel isn't winning him voters. Telling people that genocide is the only option isn't either. I'm not the one obstructing a Biden win here. --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Do u think Israel is going to cost Biden the election?
Hornezz 04/03/24 4:06:43 PM #330	ellis123 posted... https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/5/5393f05a.jpg I mean, there is also a third track where Joe Biden listens to his own voter base (and perhaps his conscience?), decides to deliver on his promise to 'put human rights at the center of his foreign policy' and decides to stop sending arms to a country that's currently committing genocide. Not only would that wipe away the largest criticism he has coming into this election, win back some voters - he might actually even save some Palestinian lives in the process. However, sadly, that track is hidden behind a group of devout supporters who are shouting up and down that the track doesn't exist and that you have to support genocide otherwise you're a fascist. --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Do u think Israel is going to cost Biden the election?
Hornezz 04/03/24 4:00:35 PM #321	ssb_yunglink2 posted... These are 2 different arguments. Criticism of Biden is good, he needs to be criticized for his Israel stance. Theres no need to defend what hes doing there. Not voting is something else entirely. Appreciate the answer, and I agree on the surface. The question however is how to actually prevent those people from not voting. Biden's actions are turning them away. There are very obvious steps he could take to take away the criticisms and win back the support - but people here would rather shout at protestors that continuing genocide is the only option. Cemith posted... I'm sorry that Trump warped the fabric of modern politics so irrevocably that now realistically the only choices we have is fascism and not fascism. But, yes, him being that fucking bad is the whole fucking point. Biden didn't have to "earn my vote" because I'm not complicit in a fucking fascist rise to power. Biden didn't have to "earn my vote" because I can see the big picture and I'm not so far up my own ass that I'm going to sit be cool with my LGBT, non white, non religious friends and family be persecuted by an aspiring fascist. We don't like fascism because it oppresses and kills many innocent people, right? Which is something that should always be resisted, right? Even when it's people who are not close to you? I'd like to reiterate the point that telling people that they have to support genocide isn't actually a winning campaign strategy. There's no evidence whatsoever that Biden's unconditional support for Israel is necessary to win the election. Biden is not sending those bombs to Israel to save your friends and family from fascism. There's a very obvious gap in logic that nobody seems to address; arguing that Biden's reelection is top priority AND arguing that it's okay for Biden to ignore the concerns of a large part of his voters, are mutually exclusive. Cemith posted... "Why is it never the GOP that has to change?" Because I have no hope of successfully arguing to Republicans that killing brown children by the thousands is actually bad and should be resisted. I'd like to think Democrats agree with that but I might be wrong. --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Do u think Israel is going to cost Biden the election?
Hornezz 04/03/24 3:03:15 PM #269	hockeybabe89 posted... Trump would be worse. Only Biden being worse than Trump could change my vote. I like how you confirmed my comment about being stuck in the Trump-bad-loop. I respectfully ask you to take the next step in logic. Assuming preventing a Trump win is the at the utmost importance: Is Biden's handling of the Gaza conflict actually helping that goal? Is the approach you, and so many other supporters ITT have, actually helping that goal? The threats of a Trump presidency are completely hollow if what you're defending is not doing anything to prevent it. --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Do u think Israel is going to cost Biden the election?
Hornezz 04/03/24 2:50:28 PM #260	Since the topic is still stuck in the same infinite "but Trump bad"-loop, I'll try to ask again: Hornezz posted... Would be nice if one of these topics for once could move past the reflexive "but Trump worse". Yes, Trump is worse on every single category including Gaza. Now that we've established that, the discussion should be how to exactly prevent him from being elected again. Is any of the following actually helping Biden to win votes? - Send billions worth of bombs, despite wide disapproval among Dem voters for Israel's actions - Outright deny the human rights violations going on in Gaza - Accuse anti-genocide protestors of being idiots, Trumpers, Hamas supporters, Russia/China bots, etc. - Pretend that a significant part of Dem voters is just a fringe group whose concerns can safely be ignored - Threaten critics with concentration camps or deportations if they don't fall in line --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Do u think Israel is going to cost Biden the election?
Hornezz 04/03/24 1:30:22 PM #209	Would be nice if one of these topics for once could move past the reflexive "but Trump worse". Yes, Trump is worse on every single category including Gaza. Now that we've established that, the discussion should be how to exactly prevent him from being elected again. Is any of the following actually helping Biden to win votes? - Send billions worth of bombs, despite wide disapproval among Dem voters for Israel's actions - Outright deny the human rights violations going on in Gaza - Accuse anti-genocide protestors of being idiots, Trumpers, Hamas supporters, Russia/China bots, etc. - Pretend that a significant part of Dem voters is just a fringe group whose concerns can safely be ignored - Threaten critics with concentration camps or deportations if they don't fall in line --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Do u think Israel is going to cost Biden the election?
Hornezz 04/03/24 1:09:32 PM #185	tankboy posted... But the number of dem voters who disapprove of Israel in general is a small subset of those who disapprove of Israel's actions in Gaza. That's the number who would actually be turned off from voting for him, and it's small. American weapons are being used in Gaza. Biden's decisions to keep selling bombs is directly related. It's specifically his handling of the Gaza conflict that's met with disapproval. --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Do u think Israel is going to cost Biden the election?
Hornezz 04/03/24 12:59:53 PM #181	Horith posted... Its not clear whether that actually will gain him votes. As many people as there are unhappy with is handling of Israel, theres likely to be just as much if not more backlash from more centeist Dem voters if he were to take a harder stance against Israel. Based off what though? 75% of Dem voters disapprove Israel's actions in Gaza. Approval is down to 18%. --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
Topic	Do u think Israel is going to cost Biden the election?
Hornezz 04/03/24 10:29:55 AM #158	Mearcstapa posted... Biden is betting that cracking down on Israel would lose him more votes than continuing to appease them would, and he's probably right. Based off what though? Support for Israel's actions in Gaza keeps on declining as the bodies keep piling up. Biden's handling of the crisis already was met with disapproval even before the recent news of him sending billions of dollars worth of bombs more. --- In dentibus anticis frustum magnum spinaciae habes.
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