Current Events > Do u think Israel is going to cost Biden the election?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Thompson posted...

Alas, Biden's not hard enough on Israel, and he's also not hard enough on Russia.
But he's still better than Trump.

Trump would encourage Israel to ramp up their genociding, throw Ukraine under the bus, and Mike Johnson NATO if or when Russia decides it's time to gobble up the Baltic states.
And then there's all that Project 2025 shit...

Trump would cede all of Ukraine to Putin & likely ignore Israel. But the price of gas is 0.30 cents more under Biden!!!! NOOOOOOO

I mean the man can hardly go anywhere without getting called a genocider. A lot can happen between now and November, but this is such an unforced error, it's no wonder people say Democrats lose on purpose.

Yeah 3rd party voting is a vote for Trump. Not voting for Biden is a vote for Trump.

I am thoroughly displeased with how Biden has been treating Gaza but I will not stand idly by while Trump "finishes the job", enacts Project 2025, and my LGBT friends and family are reduced to second class citizens at best, pariahs and prisoners at worst.

Biden is betting that cracking down on Israel would lose him more votes than continuing to appease them would, and he's probably right.

He would go straight from accusations of genocide from the pro-palestine faction, to relentless accusations of anti-semitism from both sides. It's a lose-lose situation politically for Biden.

A win-win for Netanyahu though, who either gets everything he wants from Biden, or gets everything he wants and more from Trump if the pro-palestine faction causes Biden to lose. He literally has no incentive to ease up on the brutality of the Gaza invasion.

Anybody who votes Trump because they think he'll be better for the Palestinians is a fool. Of cosmic proportions.

Mearcstapa posted...

Biden is betting that cracking down on Israel would lose him more votes than continuing to appease them would, and he's probably right.

He would go straight from accusations of genocide from the pro-palestine faction, to relentless accusations of anti-semitism from both sides. It's a lose-lose situation politically for Biden.

A win-win for Netanyahu though, who either gets everything he wants from Biden, or gets everything he wants and more from Trump if the pro-palestine faction causes Biden to lose. He literally has no incentive to ease up on the brutality of the Gaza invasion.

The babbys first activism side will just come up with a new reason to sit on their asses and let the republicans have power again too.

Mearcstapa posted...

Biden is betting that cracking down on Israel would lose him more votes than continuing to appease them would, and he's probably right.

He would go straight from accusations of genocide from the pro-palestine faction, to relentless accusations of anti-semitism from both sides. It's a lose-lose situation politically for Biden.

It's a mistake to think the US support for Israel is somehow based on appeasing the tiny minority of voters who are Jewish or the (much larger) portion who are Christian fundamentalists. The hard truth is that even if AIPAC didn't exist, even if no Jews lived in Israel, and even if biblical stories took place in Hoboken, the US would still support Israel. It is simply in US strategic interests to have a Western-ish ally, technology center, and military testbed, in the area. It's kind of like the flip side of why no Arab countries seriously support the Palestinians -- there's nothing in it for them.

Mearcstapa posted...

Biden is betting that cracking down on Israel would lose him more votes than continuing to appease them would, and he's probably right.

Based off what though?

Support for Israel's actions in Gaza keeps on declining as the bodies keep piling up.

Biden's handling of the crisis already was met with disapproval even before the recent news of him sending billions of dollars worth of bombs more.

tankboy posted...

It's a mistake to think the US support for Israel is somehow based on appeasing the tiny minority of voters who are Jewish or the (much larger) portion who are Christian fundamentalists. The hard truth is that even if AIPAC didn't exist, even if no Jews lived in Israel, and even if biblical stories took place in Hoboken, the US would still support Israel. It is simply in US strategic interests to have a Western-ish ally, technology center, and military testbed, in the area. It's kind of like the flip side of why no Arab countries seriously support the Palestinians -- there's nothing in it for them.

I agree with that. Really, israel is the US' 51st state in the middle east, and given its proximity, it's a more "mask off" version of the US which has always been genocidal. The US did kill 4.5-5 million Muslims in the middle east since the first Iraq war according to a study conducted at Brown University. The source of a lot of anti-Muslim propaganda originates from israel, and natenyahu is the one who originated the idea that Islam has the terrorism problem in 1984 in order to dehumanize Muslims/Arabs/Palestinians, while somehow the west and israel are the one that managed to kill millions. It's weird. (See video below)

This is a reddit post that shows some of the atrocities israel has had a hand in:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestine/comments/1auklvk/israel_is_involved_with_global_oppression_not/

The US can't constantly be arming death squads and staging coups in places like Latin America. Too big a blow to its reputation and the illusion of the "rules based order" (which of course has fallen apart, thanks israel). So it pulls its lever, israel. This is why biden states "if there was not an israel, we would have to invent an israel". It's this really stupid stage play that I really don't understand how it fools anyone.

Apart from all that, it's a great money laundering tool. You get to kill all the brown people you hate, steal all the taxpayer money of the "hard working American public", send it to israel, who then buy back weapons from your elites whose business is death and destruction.

Yeah, the US doesn't want to lose its "best investment in history" as biden puts it (biden being AIPAC's most donated to candidate in history btw), certainly not for the people of Gaza.

But hey, aparthied south africa (also supported by israel) fell, and so too will israel, the cracks are showing. This zionist ethnostate bullshit is not sustainable.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/MbHGPGqXIeg

It doesn't matter. Foreign policy is mostly a non issue when it comes to voting; the economy is all the really matters. And lets be real, it isn't like Trump would be any different on the issue, he was extremely pro-Isreal while in office. Both parties are pretty much agreement on the issue

Possibly. I dont think any serious amount of people are considering that Trump would be a better alternative, but I do think theres a significant portion who will not vote at all or vote 3rd party/write-in because they wont be able to stomach supporting a candidate who enabled genocide so freely.

A_A_Battery posted...

No, letting anyone responsible for the above go unpunished is the worse outcome, even if it means trump.

This is a bad take

LightHawKnight posted...

Dont get why people want the orange idiot to win. He literally said that he would help Israel finish the job.

Biden doing that now. So what s the difference.

CNN: "Most Americans have moved on from the presidential primaries now that they are effectively over. President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump have amassed enough delegates to win the Democratic and Republican nomination, respectively.
But there was still an important message for Biden in particular from the results in Wisconsins primary on Tuesday, where progressives and pro-Palestinian Democrats did not support the Democratic president. As of early Wednesday morning, nearly 48,000 votes, or 8.3% of those cast, were for uninstructed in the Democratic primary.
Biden was actively shifting course Tuesday as he addresses increasingly loud concerns from the Muslim American community about the situation in Gaza.
He had been scheduled to attend a scaled-back iftar dinner commemorating Ramadan at the White House. But pushback from potential attendees led the White House to shift those plans and instead conduct a meeting with Muslim community leaders.

Michigans protest example
Whats different this year is that progressive and pro-Palestinian groups were actively encouraging voters in Wisconsin to pick the uninstructed delegation. A similar campaign in Michigans Democratic primary in February with the uncommitted option yielded more than 100,000 votes, about 13% of the primary vote count, compared with Bidens 81%."

If Biden loses 10% of voters by staying home Trump wins. Biden has yet to condemn Bibi and has let Chuck Schumer do it once. The Biden continues to hold water for IDF after killing aide workers. When the Rafah invasion occurs Biden will have more than egg on his face.

Euripides posted...

This is a bad take

He hates the West.

cjsdowg posted...

Biden doing that now. So what s the difference.

That not only will it, at the very least, continue as is over there, but here in America things will get turbo fucked.

cjsdowg posted...

Biden doing that now. So what s the difference.

Can I have what you are smoking?

MrToothHasYou posted...

Possibly. I dont think any serious amount of people are considering that Trump would be a better alternative, but I do think theres a significant portion who will not vote at all or vote 3rd party/write-in because they wont be able to stomach supporting a candidate who enabled genocide so freely.

It's also the fact that most of the older demographics, aka the ones who vote, probably don't view it is as harshly of a light: it's either they have been brainwashed to believe Isreal is God's righteous instrument, believe it is in the US' strategic interests to support Isreal or that it is self defense for the Israelites. Regardless, they spent thier whole life in a sea of CIA and military intrigue, so aren't exactly going to be making much a moral grandstand about it, it is just business for them. It is more of a problem for the younger generation and they don't vote anyways or will be scared by Trump enough to vote for Biden, so the Israel situation is a non issue

@LightHawKnight
https://youtu.be/zyiG6FJegUk?si=Sxbe4zTfEOW8J8H-

I apologize in advance for not being able to find this interview with Mehdi Hasan and Cuomo. At work and don't have time to look atm, I may dig further later.

Anyway, Mehdi accurately breaks down the idiocy of promoting staying home election day or voting 3rd party.

LightHawKnight posted...

Can I have what you are smoking?

They lied about a un group having ties to Oct 7. Biden canceled aid to that group. Even after out intell said it was a lie. Israel bomb anyone and anything they want. We attack other allies who question Israel. They bomb refugee cases and Biden rewards them so do tell me how i am wrong. They are literally making new Settlements in the west Bank now.

LightningThief posted...

Anyway, Mehdi accurately breaks down the idiocy of promoting staying home election day or voting 3rd party.

I think the idiocy is supporting Biden unconditionally and expecting him to change anything. Just like how Biden sends weapons to Netanyahu unconditionally and expects them to change anything just cause of some spicy words.

If you're always going to support a politician no matter what, they have no incentive to do what you ask them to.

cjsdowg posted...

They lied about a un group having ties to Oct 7. Biden canceled aid to that group. Even after our intel said it was a lie.

That was kind of a stopped-clock-right-twice-a-day situation. What actually happened was that everybody already knew that UNRWA was dirty, and has been for decades. That's why so many countries, even those not especially sympathetic to Israel, immediately ceased funding without even waiting for proof. Didn't that seem weird? They were already looking for any excuse to defund UNRWA. They didn't care whether UNRWA was connected to this particular terror incident.

MrMojoRising posted...

I think the idiocy is supporting Biden unconditionally and expecting him to change anything. Just like how Biden sends weapons to Netanyahu unconditionally and expects them to change anything just cause of some spicy words.

If you're always going to support a politician no matter what, they have no incentive to do what you ask them to.

You have two alternatives, Biden or Trump. There is no third choice.

Why do you guys never ask for the GOP to be better?

Tanthalas posted...

You have two alternatives, Biden or Trump. There is no third choice.

Why do you guys never ask for the GOp to be better?

One is literally a cult at this point. And Centrist Dems still act like they are on the side of good, while being jerks .I think we can get to smug people easier then the cult people.

If its true that the future of this country hinges on this election, and its true that his inaction on Israel-Palestine may cost him votes, shouldnt he want to take a stronger stance on Israel, for the good of the nation, even if he was completely indifferent about innocent Palestinian lives?

cjsdowg posted...

Biden doing that now. So what s the difference.

The rest of their policies?

If both choices are going to result in the same outcome for the Israel/Palestine conflict, then its not a meaningful factor right now. Retracting support for Biden, as one of only two people with a chance of winning the White House this November, will not change that outcome. Hell, I dont think Biden retracting all of his support from Israel, taking back all our weapons, and blasting Kumbaya in the Middle East will stop Israel at this point.

So if the choice of president, which I remind you is only meaningfully between Biden and Trump, doesnt affect the outcome in Israel then its a meaningless factor in who you vote for. The other policy positions are where you have to make your decision, and I and hopefully most voters are not willing to throw our democracy away by letting an insurrectionist and criminal back into the White House.

Focus on the change you can make, and dont let perfect be the enemy of the good. Especially when Trump is actively campaigning on the premise that he will be a dictator and that as president he is above the law.

Tanthalas posted...

You have two alternatives, Biden or Trump. There is no third choice.

Why do you guys never ask for the GOp to be better?

I know what my ballot looks like buddy, I'm not voting for a genocider, though. Sucks that he actively decided (and keeps deciding) to be that. Someone should tell him that he might lose votes from people who hate seeing children die every day on their phones.

Cemith posted...

Yeah 3rd party voting is a vote for Trump. Not voting for Biden is a vote for Trump.

I am thoroughly displeased with how Biden has been treating Gaza but I will not stand idly by while Trump "finishes the job", enacts Project 2025, and my LGBT friends and family are reduced to second class citizens at best, pariahs and prisoners at worst.

This. I'm starting to think these "hurpadurr let's punish Biden" trolls want to jump off a cliff, but are too cowardly to do it themselves, so they want to drag the country with them. Leave my friends and family out of it, thanks.

FunWithAFryPan posted...

If its true that the future of this country hinges on this election, and its true that his inaction on Israel-Palestine may cost him votes, shouldnt he want to take a stronger stance on Israel, for the good of the nation, even if he was completely indifferent about innocent Palestinian lives?

Its not clear whether that actually will gain him votes. As many people as there are unhappy with is handling of Israel, theres likely to be just as much if not more backlash from more centeist Dem voters if he were to take a harder stance against Israel. All were seeing is 10% of voters in a primary, that was pretty much already decided before it began, who if theyre smart will still vote Biden anyway in the general because the alternative is losing our democracy to a known criminal with aspirations of being a dictator.

MrMojoRising posted...

I know what my ballot looks like buddy, I'm not voting for a genocider, though. Sucks that he actively decided (and keeps deciding) to be that. Someone should tell him that he might lose votes from people who hate seeing children die every day on their phones.

Anyone that thinks Biden is committing genocide isnt acting in good faith.

And even if that were true, your choices would be between two genociders.

Horith posted...

Its not clear whether that actually will gain him votes. As many people as there are unhappy with is handling of Israel, theres likely to be just as much if not more backlash from more centeist Dem voters if he were to take a harder stance against Israel.

Based off what though? 75% of Dem voters disapprove Israel's actions in Gaza. Approval is down to 18%.

Hornezz posted...

Based off what though? 75% of Dem voters disapprove Israel's actions in Gaza. Approval is down to 18%.

But the number of dem voters who disapprove of Israel in general is a small subset of those who disapprove of Israel's actions in Gaza. That's the number who would actually be turned off from voting for him, and it's small.

MrMojoRising posted...

I know what my ballot looks like buddy, I'm not voting for a genocider, though.

Yes you are. You just refuse to notice it.

Tanthalas posted...

And even if that were true, your choices would be between two genociders.

And for the Trump-aligned genocide, not only would it get even worse in the Middle East (likely even involving American boots on the ground), but he'd also be sure to enact a mass genocide here, too, targeting non-whites, non-Christians, LGBTQ+ people, anyone even slightly to the left of Fox, anyone who ever said something mildly rude to Trump at a party, etc.

Notably, Biden, despite his flaws, does not include instituting such atrocities in either his or his party's domestic policy.

tankboy posted...

But the number of dem voters who disapprove of Israel in general is a small subset of those who disapprove of Israel's actions in Gaza. That's the number who would actually be turned off from voting for him, and it's small.

American weapons are being used in Gaza. Biden's decisions to keep selling bombs is directly related. It's specifically his handling of the Gaza conflict that's met with disapproval.

ScazarMeltex posted...

Anybody who votes Trump because they think he'll be better for the Palestinians is a fool. Of cosmic proportions.

This. Ill support trump because Biden is supporting genocide

clowns you are supporting a worse genocide by supporting trump. And yes, by not voting for Biden, you are supporting trump because a lower vote turnout helps republicans statistically

anyone saying to vote against biden is committing a logic error or is actually evil unironically

Rika_Furude posted...

clowns you are going to support a worse genocide by supporting trump. And yes, by not voting for Biden, you are supporting trump because a lower vote turnout helps republicans statistically

Why do Dems always blame the voters and not the Dems who are doing the shit.

MrMojoRising posted...

I know what my ballot looks like buddy, I'm not voting for a genocider, though. Sucks that he actively decided (and keeps deciding) to be that. Someone should tell him that he might lose votes from people who hate seeing children die every day on their phones.

You not voting = genocider gets in office. Quite literally. Does not matter.

So, instead of going "meh", how about everything ELSE going on with them that, you know, might impact you?

BTW, one of them is trying to get a ceasefire. The other actively said to wipe them out. Gee, I guess they really are the same.

cjsdowg posted...

Why do Dems always blame the voters and not the Dems who are doing the shit.

Your actions speak louder than your words

Kaldrenthebold posted...

One of them is trying to get a ceasefire. The other actively said to wipe them out. Gee, I guess they really are the same.

Bullshit . The US stop the UN from passing ceasefire amendments over and over. And said point blank Israel can do anything. They fucking killed Americans .And Biden gave them more stuff. The US said we need to find a Final Soultion for the Gaza.

cjsdowg posted...

Why do Dems always blame the voters and not the Dems who are doing the shit.

Its not dems blaming voters, its sane people pointing out reality.

Rika_Furude posted...

Why do Dems always blame the voters and not the Dems who are doing the shit.

My actions is to not support Genocide Joe.

cjsdowg posted...

My actions is to not support Genocide Joe.

And therefore you support Genocide Trump, meaning your action is far worse

cjsdowg posted...

My actions is to not support Genocide Joe.

In the topic yesterday you said you think democrats and republicans both do nothing for black people. You wouldnt support Biden even if his Israel stance stops being shit

Ive been asking for months in multiple forums how letting the republicans have power again helps Palestine.

cjsdowg posted...

My actions is to not support Genocide Joe.

Yes, because Biden is the one twisting Israels arm to force them to kill civilians.

And lets just keep ignoring that the other option is much worse.

Again, why do you guys only make these demands of the Democratic party? Why do you never demand that the GOP work for your vote? Why will you give the GOP your vote for free?

cjsdowg posted...

My actions is to not support Genocide Joe.

Letting Trump get elected will surely stop genocide.

I sometimes get the feeling that the folks shouting "Genocide Joe" the loudest don't actually give the tiniest shit about Gaza. They're here for the moral masturbation.

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

In the topic yesterday you said you think democrats and republicans both do nothing for black people. You wouldnt support Biden even if his Israel stance stops being shit

I would and I have for the greater good. Since Trump is so much worse. However it comes a point where you have to stop saying it too much. You can't be that horrible and get my support.

And therefore you support Genocide Trump, meaning your action is far worse

Democrats are not owed got fucking vote. If they don't earn a vote that is not someone supporting Trump.