Board 8 > Rate the Ace Attorney case: The Grand Turnabout (E2-5)

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Rules:

1. Rate each case on a scale from 1 to 10 with 1 being the lowest and 10 being the highest. Anything above 10 gets rounded down to a 10, and anything below a 1 gets rounded up to a 1.
2. Anything beyond one decimal point will be rounded accordingly: .04 and below will be rounded down, .05 and up will be rounded up.
3. You may grade on any criteria you like.
4. You can rate cases from previous topics if you miss a topic.

Spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PiEuURt1qf19VoYzcFCU1EFa8uqs2teJiVcip7JmjDw/edit?usp=sharing

Previous Results:

Bridge to the Turnabout (3-5) - 9.8 (37 votes)
Farewell, My Turnabout (2-4) - 9.7 (30 votes)
Turnabout Goodbyes (1-4) - 9.2 (32 votes)
The Inherited Turnabout (E2-3) - 8.5 (16 votes)
Turnabout Beginnings (3-4) - 8.4 (26 votes)
Rise from the Ashes (1-5) - 8.2 (28 votes)
The Stolen Turnabout (3-2) - 8.2 (24 votes)
Turnabout Samurai (1-3) - 7.4 (29 votes)
Turnabout Memories (3-1) - 7.4 (30 votes)
Turnabout Target (E2-1) - 7.1 (17 votes)
Turnabout Trump (4-1) - 6.9 (25 votes)
Recipe for Turnabout (3-3) - 6.6 (27 votes)
Reunion, and Turnabout (2-2) - 6.5 (25 votes)
Turnabout Ablaze (E1-5) - 6.0 (19 votes)
Turnabout Sisters (1-2) - 5.7 (25 votes)
Turnabout Reminiscence (E1-4) - 5.6 (22 votes)
The Imprisoned Turnabout (E2-2) - 5.3 (16 votes)
The Forgotten Turnabout (E2-4) - 5.3 (14 votes)
Turnabout Visitor (E1-1) - 5.0 (20 votes)
The First Turnabout (1-1) - 4.9 (25 votes)
The Kidnapped Turnabout (E1-3) - 4.6 (22 votes)
Turnabout Airlines (E1-2) - 4.2 (22 votes)
Turnabout Corner (4-2) - 4.0 (25 votes)
Turnabout Big Top (2-3) - 3.7 (25 votes)
Turnabout Succession (4-4) - 3.5 (24 votes)
The Lost Turnabout (2-1) - 3.3 (27 votes)
Turnabout Serenade (4-3) - 2.7 (24 votes)

E2-4 ties with E2-2. Mostly everyone liked the Courtney face turn. However, the amnesia plot had a lot of mixed opinions. Some thought it led to really strong Edgeworth/Kay dynamics, culminating in Edgeworth choosing his relationships over his badge. Others felt it wasn't used very well and is a weak plot line.

While I've been using the Prosecutor's Path names and translation, I went through AAI2 through the dowolf translation, which I really liked. The name in that translation, Turnabout Oblivion, feels a lot more apt than The Forgotten Turnabout. And Blaise being named Oswald leads to some nice lines with his nickname being Ozzie.

Summary:

No more than a few hours after their last close call, Edgeworth and Kay stumble onto a new, high profile murder investigation. And a kidnapping. And another kidnapping? And another murder? Edgeworth goes all out to solve this final case, relearning what being a prosecutor really means to him all over again.

Main Characters: Miles Edgeworth, Dick Gumshoe, Kay Faraday, Raymond Shields, Justine Courtney, Sebastian Debeste, Franziska von Karma, Shi-Long Lang
Other Characters: Di-Jun Huang, Penny Nichols, Will Powers, John Marsh, Patricia Roland, Blaise Debeste, Nicole Swift, Lotta Hart, Regina Berry, Simon Keyes, Sirhan Dogen, Shelley de Killer, Jack Cameron, The Body Double, Horace Knightley, Pierre Hoquet, Dane Gustavia, The Mastermind

My rating: 9/10. The Grand Turnabout, indeed. This is a highly ambitious case and it meets those ambitions...at the beginning and the end of the case. The middle, though, can really drag. There's a BUNCH crammed in this case, mostly by design. I'll tackle the big threads.

Debeste's face turn and the trials: Great and terrible. Everything to do with Sebastian Debeste is really fun and he earns his face turn here. I...think it might have been better to put this in E2-4 simply because this case is too bloated, but it also helps to see Sebastian by Blaise's side in E2-4 and decisively turn on him here. The trials, on the other hand, are simply terrible. As Anagram mentioned last topic, Shields is just blatantly not following his duties and it just feels...really wrong. The pacing is brutal too. I do appreciate that Blaise continues to be deeply incompetent, though.

The murder and the evil Yatagarasu: Huang is a really interesting victim, made even more interesting when you learn that it's the body double. Patricia, Blaise, and the Body Double is a pretty neat group of victims, but...it's pretty weird that they're all complete jobbers. Patricia's sympathy in E2-2 pretty much goes out the door when you realize she's a monster. I really like the Moozilla stomp murder scene and how it actually turned out to be a Goomba stomp kill. I always appreciate a theatrical murder scene.

The mastermind: I think this will really color how much you love this case. Keyes is probably my favorite game-long villain and the game does a great job of making him a monster, but also showing how much of this was outside the bound of his control. Keyes himself obviously has a ton of really fun animations and figuring out who exactly the mastermind is is really fun, especially since this case brings literally the entire cast out. I don't really like Dogen being Keyes' parental substitute. I think that's fine...but why does it need to be an assassin? de Killer and Dogen walking out of a tent surrounded by law enforcement is also pretty bad, a clear visual indication of how untouchable assassins are in Ace Attorney.

The emotional highlights: Generally, the Ace Attorney games have throughlines in them overarching the game. AAI2 has both a throughline regarding the mastermind, but also a throughline regarding fatherhood. I really enjoyed this part of AAI2 and it really culminates in this case in regards to Keyes. I just want to mention how much I love that aspect of AAI2. Oh, and Gumshoe getting a raise in his final appearance so far in the series feels...appropriate.

9.7

The Forgotten turnabout is E2-4 not E2-3.

I keep making that mistake. I also forgot to update E2-3's score with a few new ratings.

7

It's good, but it's still the worst final case besides E-1's. And GAA1's. And PWxL's.

6

like you said, it drags in the middle. also I didn't like Keyes

Forgotten: 3
The Grand: 7

Good case, but a little too overly long for its own good. The problem with longer cases, personally, is that there's diminishing returns no matter how good it is, since I lose focus.

8/10

It's a pretty good finale, neither a truly great one nor a disappointing one. Like, the villain reveal is pretty fun but his plan isn't really AS cool as it could've been, and there's some stuff that doesn't make sense. Also this case really bounces around a lot and doesn't feel like it has much of an identity of its own at times since it's wrapping up the overarching plot of the entire game.

Honestly might be the least memorable case in the game to me. I remember there was a lot of stuff that happened but I don't remember the details or why any of it did, much less who died or why or how or what the mastermind's deal was. Perhaps there is such a thing as doing too much in an epic case! I remember figuring out the mastermind being pretty satisfying though.

3/10

Simon Sucks

4

Keeps going for hours after it stops being interesting. I could not care less about the assassin stuff

E2-4: 7
E2-5: 8 (if shorter and more concise, this might have been a 9)

Before I can rate this, can anyone remind me why Simon does any of the shit he's responsible for besides getting Knightley killed? Was E2-3 just him being mad at his dad? Past that I have no idea.

Change my vote to 5, actually.

3

kevwaffles posted...

Before I can rate this, can anyone remind me why Simon does any of the shit he's responsible for besides getting Knightley killed? Was E2-3 just him being mad at his dad? Past that I have no idea.

Pretty sure it was some combination of daddy issues and nihilism

To be honest, the more I realize that I can't actually remember the more I feel like lowering my score lol

The ratings of these last few cases have not exactly inspired me to watch the rest of AAI2.

10, arguably the best post-2-4 case

kevwaffles posted...

Before I can rate this, can anyone remind me why Simon does any of the shit he's responsible for besides getting Knightley killed? Was E2-3 just him being mad at his dad? Past that I have no idea.

A lot of it has to do with Simon being the witness to the assassination of Huang and the evil Yatagarasu knowing about this and trying to silence him.

8.6/10

It's really long-winded, but I love a lot of the main plot points about it.

• Courtney showing off her vulnerable side
• Will and Penny show up!
• Edgeworth's pep talk to Sebastian
• Sebastian's sprite of him sniffing away his last tears eyeing up his dad in court (would've worked better if he didn't go right back to crying, but eh)
• The twist villain
• Dare I say the greatest villain breakdown of all-time? And it's not even close???

That said, the whole side plot of intuiting that the kidnapping was actually a murder is soooooo fucking long and kills a lot of the momentum that the current-day murder has. This being the main reason I bumped this down to the 8's.

Man, it'll be wild if this game ever gets an official translation with all new names.

as long as the kid gets a better name than John Marsh

9

MacArrowny posted...

Man, it'll be wild if this game ever gets an official translation with all new names.

Most of the names I'd be able to accept new variants of pretty quickly, but I will NEVER accept any name other than Sebastian Debeste

9

okay sorry might be a bad idea to rank fresh off finishing the case but holy goddamn shit was this epic as hell. it is definitely a bit overstuffed, i can agree, especially fresh off E2-4. so like maaaaaybe im definitely over ranking it a bit, but i had fun and in the end that matters most.

i mentioned finding roland a sympathetic killer before. i take that back! i mentioned disliking courtney and sebastian. i take that back too! i really love how this does just tie into the rest of the game and forces me to look back on my experiences the past week.

sebastian is literally a top ten character now he's great ... blaise go fuck yourself!!!

and wow, i think this was the first time since the original game that i felt truly surprised by a killer reveal?? how did i not see simon as the bad guy i even said that i saw ship art of him and knightley!!!!!

it is satisfying to see so many returners. nice to see ema actually stick around for real this time (cough kidnapped turnabout cough) and will powers will always be my beloved ... i did kinda dislike how lotta goes back to her 1-5 roots of paranormal nonsense, but she's a silly character, so no biggie ig.

thinking it over amd yeah, there's enough bloat to knock it down to a 9. there's so much that makes the case feel like two or three cases. there's a lot of frantic going back and forth that slows things down a bit. there's a kidnapping and another kidnapping and call backs to more kidnapping and a kidnapping that's a murder and another murder and a reminder that like three other murders literally just happened. it is a lot. thrilling and satisfying, absolutely, but probably could have done with some trimming.

it's "great" when one of these games has a character that's secretly super dangerous to search for images of and nobody can tell you (hi danganronpa, ghost trick)

I'm so glad you didn't get spoiled on this even though you literally found Simon/Knightley ship art

KamikazePotato posted...

The ratings of these last few cases have not exactly inspired me to watch the rest of AAI2.

E2-3 is literally 4th place now!

Leonhart4 posted...

E2-3 is literally 4th place now!

I actually watched the initial part of the case way back when, and I thought it was really boring! Maybe it picks up but yeah, wasn't that excited to learn about Gregory considering we know everything important about him and that case. I think the Investigations formula at its core just doesn't work for me.

As for E2-5, I'll give it an 8.5/10.

The first half of the case is super hit or miss. The trial in particular is some of the dumbest stuff in any epic case. The Sebastian moment at the end is excellent, but it can't redeem how bad the rest of it is.

But once we finally move past it, the case gets really, really good. I loved finding out the truth of what happened to the president (Fall of the House of Lang is such a good song) and the reveal of the anti-Yatagarasu.

The big bad reveal is also really good, and while the showdown is long, it feels earned and doesn't drag like with Alba. The ending is a bit anticlimactic if you're playing it after Dual Destinies (as many people did out of necessity because of the fan translation), but this game really cements Edgeworth as an all-time great character. The journey is worth it for that alone.

KamikazePotato posted...

I actually watched the initial part of the case way back when, and I thought it was really boring! Maybe it picks up but yeah, wasn't that excited to learn about Gregory considering we know everything important about him and that case. I think the Investigations formula at its core just doesn't work for me.

Some people don't like the Gregory stuff (I thought it was great), but the present day stuff is really where it's at. I think AAI2 does a lot of good for Edgeworth as a character. It brings more emotion out of him than I really thought was possible for him. It was a pleasant surprise for me.

Paratroopa1 posted...

Most of the names I'd be able to accept new variants of pretty quickly, but I will NEVER accept any name other than Sebastian Debeste

you and me both buddy

AAI2 saw what AAI1 did and was like "oh, right, we should actually give the main character a character arc"

I think the worst thing about what AAI1 did is that it somehow managed to suck all of the novelty out of playing as Edgeworth by making it not really matter that you're playing as Edgeworth

If the game ever does get officially released overseas, I wonder if Capcom would do with they did with the Crossbell Trails games and essentially just use the fan translation as official.

I'd be willing to deal with some of the more questionable name choices if we got to make Sebastian Debeste the canon name.

Nothing from the GAA games was taken from the fan tls, right?

MacArrowny posted...

Nothing from the GAA games was taken from the fan tls, right?

Nope, but I'm okay with that decision

What ended up being better, the GAA fan translation or official translation?

KamikazePotato posted...

What ended up being better, the GAA fan translation or official translation?

I never played the completed fan translation, but the official one is better for the names alone.

The official translation by a significant amount.

KamikazePotato posted...

The ratings of these last few cases have not exactly inspired me to watch the rest of AAI2.

My own comments have been pretty negative, but I'm also speaking about "the case", i.e. the logistics of the murder plot and the self-contained mystery. There are character arcs happening throughout these cases that are actually pretty good and worth seeing through imo.

Yeah, AAI2 has some really good original characters, and they make better use of their cameo appearances than the first game did.

I would be absolutely shocked if the official translation were not better than the fan translation. I mean, the AAI2 fan translation exceeded my expectations by quite a lot, but it's still noticeably worse than any official translation imo

Paratroopa1 posted...

I would be absolutely shocked if the official translation were not better than the fan translation. I mean, the AAI2 fan translation exceeded my expectations by quite a lot, but it's still noticeably worse than any official translation imo

Yeah, I don't think it would actually happen except as a cost-cutting measure just to get the game released over here, and it wouldn't be better than an official translation (although like you said, for a fan translation, it's pretty solid).

For a fan translation it's gorgeous - they went above and beyond by getting voice actors (Sungwon Cho!) and redoing all the graphics, and the script itself is fine, but in my opinion it still has quite a few "Japanese-isms" that Capcom's would have ironed out. Examples that really stand out to me in Prosecutor's Path: people (especially Kay) saying "Eh??", people saying "a certain person/that person", people using the word "forceful" too often (and other situations in which a good script would use more synonyms). There's others. It stands out. Still, I can't fault them too much because they did an INCREDIBLE job overall.

Bitto posted...

I'm so glad you didn't get spoiled on this even though you literally found Simon/Knightley ship art

this absolutely enhanced my experience with this game, but goddamn was i so lucky

I absolutely ship Knightkey even though we basically never see them interact

8.5/10

Simon's a little too inscrutable in the wrong ways to have me fully buy him as this super mastermind. If I'm remembering it correctly, he could have just done nothing before E2-4 and things likely would have gone his way in the end.

Otherwise, this is a pretty high rating for a case I remember pretty poorly, but I did quite enjoy it at the time.

From what I've seen these past few days... You have absolutely no redeeming qualities. Perhaps you should try starting over again... as a human being.

Moozilla

vs. Gourdy