Board 8 > Rate the Ace Attorney case: Turnabout Serenade (4-3)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Rules:

1. Rate each case on a scale from 1 to 10 with 1 being the lowest and 10 being the highest. Anything above 10 gets rounded down to a 10, and anything below a 1 gets rounded up to a 1.
2. Anything beyond one decimal point will be rounded accordingly: .04 and below will be rounded down, .05 and up will be rounded up.
3. You may grade on any criteria you like.
4. You can rate cases from previous topics if you miss a topic.

Spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PiEuURt1qf19VoYzcFCU1EFa8uqs2teJiVcip7JmjDw/edit?usp=sharing

Previous Results:

Bridge to the Turnabout (3-5) - 9.8 (37 votes)
Farewell, My Turnabout (2-4) - 9.7 (30 votes)
Turnabout Goodbyes (1-4) - 9.2 (32 votes)
Turnabout Beginnings (3-4) - 8.4 (26 votes)
Rise from the Ashes (1-5) - 8.2 (28 votes)
The Stolen Turnabout (3-2) - 8.2 (24 votes)
Turnabout Samurai (1-3) - 7.4 (29 votes)
Turnabout Memories (3-1) - 7.4 (30 votes)
Turnabout Trump (4-1) - 6.9 (25 votes)
Recipe for Turnabout (3-3) - 6.6 (27 votes)
Reunion, and Turnabout (2-2) - 6.5 (25 votes)
Turnabout Sisters (1-2) - 5.7 (25 votes)
The First Turnabout (1-1) - 4.9 (25 votes)
Turnabout Corner (4-2) - 4.0 (25 votes)
Turnabout Big Top (2-3) - 3.7 (25 votes)
The Lost Turnabout (2-1) - 3.3 (27 votes)

Easily the most divisive case so far. Those who liked it praised Day 2, a large and interesting cast, and an interesting murder. Those who didn't pointed out Day 1, Mr. Hat, and panties.

Summary:

Apollo isn't exactly thrilled to be dragged to one of Klavier's concerts, but things really heat up when a staff member ends up dead. But how do you defend a client who doesn't even speak your language?

Main Characters: Apollo Justice, Trucy Wright, Phoenix Wright, Ema Skye, Klavier Gavin, The Judge
Other Characters: Lamiroir, Machi Tobaye, Daryan Crescend, Romein LeTouse, Valant Gramarye

My Rating: 6/10. There are clear flaws to this case. The number of flashbacks is annoying, the cast is really small, and the case against Machi makes no sense. I don't really care about those. This case is just fun. It's a fun and unique idea for a murder and a mystery, the sound board is a really fun piece of evidence, and the main cast really begin to feel comfortable. The break to figure out Valant's magic trick docks a point here. I like Valant, but this part just sucks.

2/10

The case against Machi makes zero sense. The only thing he could've done is escape through the air vent. Everything else is impossible for him to have done (or at the very least done it alone). Apollo's utter inability to point this out is one of the few things about this series that legitimately frustrates me.

I also like Lamiroir less and less every time I replay it. She's the most unhelpful witness who should actually want you to win (and that includes Larry), and her reasons for being unhelpful are dumb (particularly the whole "I can't tell you how the magic trick was done" bit).

I'll give it an extra point because the scene in Klavier's office is his best moment in the game, and Apollo vs. Daryan on Day 2 is legit good. The case is just a logical mess.

2/10

I'm not going to try to defend this one lol

1

This is the worst case of the entire series. Fundamentally broken logic, Badly designed from a game play perspective, a chore to play through the trial segments which are supposed to be Ace Attorney's best bits, and the case exists as an excuse to introduce the jury system in 4-4.

6/10

It's completely fine, like yeah it has problems but at least it's fun unlike the rest of the game which is boring as shit lol

1

1.5

Less bad than 4-2 because of lack of panties jokes. The 1 2 punch of these two back to back was rough. Can't actually rate the rest of Apollo Justice because I couldn't continue.

Lopen posted...

1.5

Less bad than 4-2 because of lack of panties jokes. The 1 2 punch of these two back to back was rough. Can't actually rate the rest of Apollo Justice because I couldn't continue.

man I would love to see your reaction to 4-4

Lopen posted...

Less bad than 4-2 because of lack of panties jokes. The 1 2 punch of these two back to back was rough. Can't actually rate the rest of Apollo Justice because I couldn't continue.

You made it further than I did!

I should actually probably read what happened at some point because I know that one is supposed to be bad too

Part of me holds out hope I'll actually go back and play AJ/Edgeworth 2 and the other PW Games after those so I don't want to quite submit to that, though slogging through the end of AJ might kill such a project before it got off the ground (and the later games are actually good right?)

the good news is that every game after AJ completely ignores 4-4 so you can forge ahead without needing to actually play it

6.5/10

I thought it was fun and kinda liked examining the video for inconsistencies. Though I suppose Spirit of Justice handled that concept better.

1.4

Valant is nice but he can't salvage this

5.5

A great set up and great ideas and mostly ok characters, swimming in missed potential and too illogical, even for Ace Attorney plot developments. Pacing is miserable, and for how hilarious it is to see Klavier put out the fire in his guitar (and it is funny! I love how the last shot of the song has him in the distance still struggling while Lamirior sings her heart off looking as beautiful and mysterious as ever), I didn't need to see it like twelve times. I hate how no one was willing to reveal how the magic trick was done, like you couldn't have sworn Apollo and the Judge under oath of secrecy?? So much inflated runtime with this fucker. And I know I just said that it "felt too long", but there's stuff that I really felt like missed opportunities. The Gavinners are such a fun gimmick as a band, but you only see two of them! And I feel like they could have also done more with the "foreigners who speak no English" premise. Or rather, maybe they could have used it better? It really bothers me how a supposedly blind 14 year old was able to overpower/fire a gun at a grown interpol agent, and maybe utilizing a culture gap could have smoothed things over a bit. Also, that vent sussy.

The case is still fun even with its fallacies, hence why it is just barely above the "average" threshold for me. (because I am one of those people who believe that 5 should be the average fuck off American school system for trying to gaslight me otherwise) I genuinely love how helpful Klavier is. After three games of prosecutors that were complete assholes until the end (ok Miles does start to soften up earlier on, which is part of why he's the GOAT) it makes for a change of pace. And I do mean that I think this cast is mostly solid, outside of the magic trick bullshit and the lack of suspension of my disbelief anyway. Love the whole "we are doing the blind pianist joke haha PSYCHE" thing.

4-3 is probably Klavier at his most unhelpful! Or at least in court. 4-3 is probably why Klavier feels like an inconsistently written character because I think they wanted to paint him as the nice helpful dude, but it doesn't come across that way during the trial segments here. He hides lots of pertinent info until Apollo stumbles upon them and just goes "LOL already knew that Herr Forehead!"

like it makes sense when Edgeworth, Franziska, or Godot is hiding stuff, but if Klavier is supposed to be the dude who cares about the truth, why is he hiding stuff

Lopen posted...

The 1 2 punch of these two back to back was rough. Can't actually rate the rest of Apollo Justice because I couldn't continue.

I only continued onto 4-4 because I knew it was the last case and was willing to power on. I could not say the same about Investigations.

The games DO get better after Apollo Justice and Investigations 1, but I don't fault anyone for giving up on the series after going through both games. I personally do recommend Dual Destinies regardless whether you played all 4 cases of AJ because that game is sort of a very soft reboot to get things back on track and you don't need the knowledge of even 4-1 to actually enjoy DD, anyway.

Yeah, I definitely do agree there that he's more helpful in 4-2, but I still didn't feel ... threatened by him? Haven't started replaying 4-4 yet, but I just sat here like "oh, the prosecutor continues to be not a complete asshole? We're doing this?" It just feels different enough for me to point it out.

And it was a bit sweet that he let Polly and Tracy hang out backstage even before the nonsense began. I really could not see any other prosecutor doing something equivalent to that in the OT.

1

Egregiously dumb with an absolutely garbage cast of characters. Its the first time I hated ace attorney.

1/10

Completely irredeemable garbage that never makes sense. Daryan is a fun villain and Valant is OK, but man. I truly hate every other single person involved with this case with a passion. If I were to do full series character rankings, I think Lamiroir might legitimately be dead last.

paulg235 posted...

The games DO get better after Apollo Justice and Investigations 1, but I don't fault anyone for giving up on the series after going through both games.

I did get through Investigations 1-- it wasn't that bad just (very, as a huge Edgeworth fan) disappointing.

AAI2 is way better. AAI1 feels like a prototype, and AAI2 feels like the finished product.

AAI1 is even worse than AJ imo. But AAI2 is my second-favorite AA game after GAA2. Yeah, even better than T&T.

I liked AAI2 less than AAI1, due to the bloated cases. That's an uncommon opinion tho.

1/10

Some cases have worse writing, but no other case is a chore like this one is.

I think this is the best paced case in the game BY FAR except 4-1 lol, 4-2 and 4-4 are dreadful slogs but 4-3 goes by like a breeze

1

2

Paratroopa1 posted...

I think this is the best paced case in the game BY FAR except 4-1 lol, 4-2 and 4-4 are dreadful slogs but 4-3 goes by like a breeze

if only that were so

unfortunately 4-3 is somehow even longer than 4-4

and yet 4-4 feels longer

I think the first investigation day of 4-4 feels really long, but I'd say the same thing about 4-3

The rest of it goes by pretty quickly, disappointingly so in the case of the final trial day

2/10

Dude fuck magicians. All my homies hate magicians.

1

I'm not sure if this is my least favorite case in the franchise, but it's at least in the bottom three.

Unlike a lot of this game, which I will happily defend to at least some extent (looking forward to giving 4-4 a high score tomorrow), it's honestly hard for me to decouple my thoughts on this one from the overwhelming hate it receives. I guess that probably means I don't disagree with it? In any case, my predominant memories of this case are it reminding me of 2-3, and I can't say that I care about the characters much either.

3.5/10

Romein LeTouse

Only now do I realize he's romaine lettuce.

4.5/10.

The core of this is actually quite good, but its in dire need of a rewrite. The way the plot plays out both makes no sense and winds up as very tedious to play through. I dont hate it and can see how it could be a lot better, but overall its not very good.

Also looking forward to giving 4-4 a high score tomorrow but not that high.

4-4 should be a fun one. That's probably the most divisive case in the series (for good reason).

divided between people who think it's mediocre and who think it's atrocious, maybe?

SeabassDebeste posted...

divided between people who think it's mediocre and who think it's atrocious, maybe?

There are plenty of people who like it! Maybe not many who love it though.

2/10

yes, it is that bad

i feel like some of y'all are underestimating how crazy some people are about apollo justice

apparently not here in the gamefaqs bubble, evidently.

skulltrumpets posted...

i feel like some of y'all are underestimating how crazy some people are about apollo justice

apparently not here in the gamefaqs bubble, evidently.

Some people will go to bat for 4-4. Those same people will just sort of ignore 4-2 and 4-3, aside from liking Klavier I guess.

There are a lot of Apollo Justice fans out there. Well, its better than Justice for All at least!

LightningStrikes posted...

There are a lot of Apollo Justice fans out there. Well, its better than Justice for All at least!

JFA has 2-4. AJ is the kind of game where the series would be in a better, healthier spot if it never existed.

JFA also has the rest of the game!

I dont agree with that about Apollo Justice. The series retooled itself pretty effectively while keeping what works and eventually paid it all off.

1

If Apollo Justice didn't exist I almost certainly would have played games after Edgeworth 1 so I am inclined to agree it would be better

LightningStrikes posted...

The series retooled itself pretty effectively

Strong disagree there. AJ came close to killing the series, and I don't think that's a hot take. There's a reason that after AJ, we immediately got:

Ace Attorney Investigations: Miles Edgeworth
Ace Attorney Investigations 2
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney Trilogy
Professor Layton vs. Phoenix Wright

For 6 years of spinoffs and rereleases that desperately harkened back to the old characters and old Phoenix design. Then, after sufficient time had passed, Dual Destinies came out. It immediately put Phoenix back in the saddle and tried to pretend his hobo era never existed. There was never a payoff, just scrambling to right the ship after a disastrous misstep.

EDIT: Also difficult to say there was a payoff when Apollo himself gets a new backstory every game!

I mean was it Apollo Justice or was it sales stagnating due to too many releases in a short period of time and the DS starting to get old leading to experimentation. Its not like those spinoffs set the world on fire. I mean were years without a new entry now but also, the last two releases (well I guess the two before last now) were the most successful in the series history. I dont know if you can use release schedules to judge, especially since you also had Shu Takumi moving on to other projects which seems like a more likely factor.

I agree that AJ nearly killed the franchise and the series has been doing damage control since then. Good damage control, mind you, but damage control nonetheless. I think it only began to feel free again with GAA and SoJ.

Who knows what would have happened if AJ didn't get released. Maybe AA would have been put to bed. But that's not the world we live in, so eh.