Board 8 > Rate the Ace Attorney case: Turnabout Serenade (4-3)

(+) Yeah! (+)

The DS showing its age was a problem, but yes, the lion's share of the blame can be laid at AA4. There are certain entrants just suck the hype out of a franchise. Even if they survive, they're limping afterwards. Similar example would be Mega Man Battle Network 4.

DD and Spirit of Justice did okay (Capcom specifically said they 'met expectations') but they would have done better if AA4 wasn't bad. The reason the series keeps going is because new people keep discovering the games they actually love: AA1 through 3. Ace Attorney Trilogy is by FAR the most successful release in the series. Comparatively, the Apollo Justice Trilogy just released and is kinda bombing on Steam, because Apollo does not put asses in seats.

KamikazePotato posted...

EDIT: Also difficult to say there was a payoff when Apollo himself gets a new backstory every game!

Shame his own game forgot to give him a backstory besides a reveal about his mother that he himself does not know to this day

To be clear I was referring to AA Trilogy and GAA Chronicles.

2.5/10

I really like Lamiroir's design but that's about it.

KamikazePotato posted...

The reason the series keeps going is because new people keep discovering the games they actually love: AA1 through 3.

Let's not mince words there: people like AA1 and 3 but there's sort of a runt in the middle there. AA2, as we've discussed extensively in this topic series, consists of two really shitty cases, and another mediocre one. 2-4 is good and no one disputes that but one case does not make a good game. This is why AA2 is ultimately a bottom 3 game in the series.

Also I don't know what evidence you have for Apollo Trilogy bombing because if your only metric is the Steam review count corresponding to game sales than that's not actually a viable source.

Yeah, I feel like it's hard to argue that AJ didn't almost kill the series. Takumi leaving the series probably didn't help either, but AJ having its own fanbase doesn't mean it didn't do a lot of damage to the rest of the fanbase. The backlash against the game was vocal.

There's a reason DD barely acknowledged AJ. You couldn't get rid of Apollo entirely, but they introduced a new character to take away from his screentime, and Trucy was almost sidelined entirely. It was only after the success of DD that they felt comfortable drawing from AJ in SoJ.

Also, people might have problems with JFA, but 2-4 being as beloved as it is still makes people group it together with the other two, even if it's the clear weak link.

If AJ had nailed the dismount with 4-4, it might enjoy that same sort of "yeah it's flawed but that last case is so good," but...yeah.

Justice for All getting the Return of the Jedi/Temple of Doom treatment mainly via association with the rest of the original trilogy.

Funnily enough IIRC when they started work on JFA they only had 2-4, I think they even envisioned it as just the one case, and the first three were grafted on later which shows. It would have been a better game!

LightningStrikes posted...

Justice for All getting the Return of the Jedi/Temple of Doom treatment mainly via association with the rest of the original trilogy.

This makes no sense whatsoever.

LightningStrikes posted...

JFA also has the rest of the game!

I dont agree with that about Apollo Justice. The series retooled itself pretty effectively while keeping what works and eventually paid it all off.

The game retooled the series and then they immediately ignored all of the changes it'd made to go back to business as usual. The greatest crime of AJ is that it dramatically changed Phoenix's character, but didn't have the quality or prestige to make it stick, so it was entirely an exercise in pointlessness

KamikazePotato posted...

Similar example would be Mega Man Battle Network 4.

and they're both composed by Horiyama!

To be clear I like JFA less than most people here I think. I threw it a vote in the 'worst AA game' poll that was held recently.

But it's simply not comparable to AJ. JFA just had cases that, while sub-par, didn't do damage to the series canon. They were just bad cases. AJ's fuckups required a soft reboot to fix, and some of the damage is still there.

JFA didn't really get backlash because T&T released the same year. Also...this is a bit inside baseball, but most PW1 fans knew that there were 2 games coming, so even if JFA was disappointing, the 3rd game would be coming out. I remember there was a fan translation of 3-1 that came out between PW1 and JFA that people generally liked too.

Also, part of the thing about AJ is that it wasn't just bad cases, they were actively troll-y cases to the fanbase. We just talked about 4-2 being mean-spirited to PW fans and the treatment of Phoenix isn't great either. JFA didn't really troll the fans.

It's weird watching everyone just be confidently wrong about JFA being a bad game. I don't get it

Paratroopa1 posted...

It's weird watching everyone just be confidently wrong about JFA being a bad game. I don't get it

Hey, I'm with you! I just know people are split on it.

Paratroopa1 posted...

It's weird watching everyone just be confidently wrong about JFA being a bad game. I don't get it

It's the game currently rounding out the bottom two ratings! Although that probably changes after today, lol

Yeah but 2-1 is a short tutorial case so who cares (and it's just not worse than 1-1 sorry). 2-4 is like basically half the entire game and it's utterly magnificient and 2-2 is a fine case as well so even if you hate the circus most of the game is great or fine

people have a habit of saying "it sucks except for 2-4" like bitch 2-4 IS THE GAME

Hbthebattle posted...

but one case does not make a good game

Hard disagree. The series has always been about the highs.

I think what helps it a lot is the two bad cases aren't back to back too.

I'm actually not a fan of 2-2 at all, so JFA was a real struggle for me to get through. I probably would've dropped the series if 2-4 wasn't incredible.

JFA might be my favorite game in the series but that's probably because if we could scale things properly I'd probably put 2-4 at like a 15 and 1-5 at second place at 10.

2-4 should have been the game and was going to be the game but they added a bunch of trash to it! Which kind of gets to the other thing about Justice for All - its the only game in the series which doesnt have a coherent narrative or theme, its just cases awkwardly stapled together. Which makes sense given the development history.

To be clear, Justice for All is like, a 6.5 or 7 out of 10. But its the weakest Ace Attorney game (with the caveat that I havent played PLvPWAA).

KamikazePotato posted...

I'm actually not a fan of 2-2 at all, so JFA was a real struggle for me to get through. I probably would've dropped the series if 2-4 wasn't incredible.

I mean I don't love 2-2 but it's playable for me

If Apollo Justice went 4-3 -> 4-1 -> 4-2 I probably would have got through it

LightningStrikes posted...

Which kind of gets to the other thing about Justice for All - its the only game in the series which doesnt have a coherent narrative or theme, its just cases awkwardly stapled together. Which makes sense given the development history.

I mentioned this in another thread, but I love this about JFA! It allows for some flexibility and creativity. 2-4 is a neat finale case in that it technically doesn't have a grand overarching plot to it and I think that helps it, not hurts it.

I like the overarching plots too, but I also like...just interesting cases and murders that aren't necessarily tied to each other.

Paratroopa1 posted...

Yeah but 2-1 is a short tutorial case so who cares (and it's just not worse than 1-1 sorry). 2-4 is like basically half the entire game and it's utterly magnificient and 2-2 is a fine case as well so even if you hate the circus most of the game is great or fine

people have a habit of saying "it sucks except for 2-4" like bitch 2-4 IS THE GAME

Though I'm also probably being one of the biggest AJ defenders in here, this is a great stance on JFA. I'm honestly shocked so many people dislike 2-2 so much. I have my issues with it, definitely, but it isn't bad enough for a compelling argument over why JFA would be a bad game.

5.5/10

Apollo Justice is my least favorite Ace Attorney, but it's not by a huge margin like it is for most other people.

MacArrowny posted...

This makes no sense whatsoever.

It makes perfect sense, just not in the way intended.

RotJ, ToD, and JFA are all examples of what were the worst entry at the time until a fourth one came around to show you what bad actually looked like.

Yeah, most people would group the OTs of those series together and say "wow what an awesome series that was" even if there was an entry they didn't like as much as the others.

3/10

It's not good. But at least I found it less boring than 4-2 upon replaying the game recently.

AJ:AA is really a weird entry in the series. 4-2 and 4-3 are a low point and 4-1 and 4-4 are not good enough to carry them (like 2-4 did for JfA, and I also liked 2-2 myself).