Current Events > Israel/Palestina War XIII - Lets steal some more land from the West Bank

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Hornezz
03/22/24 6:24:12 PM
#351:


Trumble posted...
Their claim is that it doesn't go far enough. Which is true, but also no reason not to adopt it so there's at least something. It's not a case where adopting it means sacrificing other things, in this case it literally is a binary choice "yes" or "no".
Right. If they cared about the ceasefire they'd take this and push for more later if necessary. Apparently giving the US the finger is more important. For Russia especially, keeping America's attention (and military budget) focused on Israel is beneficial. So I can't imagine they'd genuinely want this war to stop anyway.

Charged151 posted...
The UN won't be useful in resolving this conflict at any rate...
Probably not. But America openly signalling to the world that it'll no longer unconditionally provide diplomatic cover is pretty significant, even if the vote failed.

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Cheater87
03/22/24 10:45:31 PM
#352:


Israel says they will invade Rafah, no matter what.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/israel-says-invade-rafah-no-203418024.html

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Takuya_Lee
03/22/24 10:49:43 PM
#353:


Cheater87 posted...
Israel says they will invade Rafah, no matter what.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/israel-says-invade-rafah-no-203418024.html

Then they're idiots who can't read the room. The US just called for a ceasefire. That's a giant neon sign saying to not go thru with it.

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Hospy
03/22/24 11:03:29 PM
#354:


Takuya_Lee posted...
Then they're idiots who can't read the room. The US just called for a ceasefire. That's a giant neon sign saying to not go thru with it.
As if we'd do anything if they went ahead.

Oh no, we might say some mean things as we continue to give them billions in aid every year.
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Trumble
03/23/24 12:35:52 AM
#355:


Takuya_Lee posted...
Then they're idiots who can't read the room. The US just called for a ceasefire. That's a giant neon sign saying to not go thru with it.
The US needs to make explicit threats rather than just saying don't do this. It should be "don't do this or we put a total embargo on trade with you", or "don't do this or we bomb you". Not just "don't do this" with no incentive for them to actually stop.

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CommonStar
03/23/24 2:12:00 AM
#356:


Trumble posted...
Their claim is that it doesn't go far enough. Which is true, but also no reason not to adopt it so there's at least something. It's not a case where adopting it means sacrificing other things, in this case it literally is a binary choice "yes" or "no".
The resolution didn't go far enough nor did it call for an immediate and sustained ceasefire. It leaves the option for Israel to continue it's ongoing genocide. It's just repeating Israel's position on a temporary ceasefire. Also it wasn't just China and Russia rejecting the US resolution. Algeria and Guyana rejected it too as well as a few others.

There is however another UN vote tomorrow for an actual ceasefire resolution tomorrow which unless sabotaged by the US will have the support of Russia, China, Algeria and others for the 4th time now.
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Foppe
03/23/24 2:14:08 AM
#357:


I can see USA veto it.

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Trumble
03/23/24 2:23:36 AM
#358:


CommonStar posted...
The resolution didn't go far enough nor did it call for an immediate and sustained ceasefire.
No, and a further one would be needed, but there was still no downside to letting it pass while continuing to push for an even better one. Heck, they even could've abstained so that it would pass but they could still send a message that they don't think it's enough. This isn't a case where supporting this one means you can't support an even better one, or where it comes with nasty side effects.

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Foppe
03/23/24 2:34:02 AM
#359:


36 persons from the same family killed in an IDF attack one week ago, I think we missed that one.

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Hospy
03/23/24 2:35:36 AM
#360:


I'd be absolutely shocked if US doesn't veto it, that'd be the first actual positive sign from the administration.
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Sir_Will
03/23/24 2:36:16 AM
#361:


Hornezz posted...
Probably not. But America openly signalling to the world that it'll no longer unconditionally provide diplomatic cover is pretty significant, even if the vote failed.
Doesn't mean anything until the US stops giving/selling them the arms they're using to commit the genocide. Finger wagging means nothing without something to back it up.

Foppe posted...
I can see USA veto it.
It obviously will.


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CommonStar
03/23/24 2:46:04 AM
#362:


Trumble posted...
No, and a further one would be needed, but there was still no downside to letting it pass while continuing to push for an even better one. Heck, they even could've abstained so that it would pass but they could still send a message that they don't think it's enough. This isn't a case where supporting this one means you can't support an even better one, or where it comes with nasty side effects.
Because it was a PR Stunt by Biden in an election year that didn't actually call for a ceasefire which those countries saw right through. Like I said, it left the option open for Israel to continue their ongoing genocide while America continues to provide them the arms to do so.

Look how quickly western media pumped articles making it look like it was a call for ceasefire that was denied by evil Russia and evil China, meanwhile the US has been vetoing the many previous actual ceasefire resolutions.
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Trumble
03/23/24 4:42:23 AM
#363:


CommonStar posted...
Because it was a PR Stunt by Biden in an election year that didn't actually call for a ceasefire which those countries saw right through. Like I said, it left the option open for Israel to continue their ongoing genocide while America continues to provide them the arms to do so.
Vetoing it also leaves that option open. Passing something is better than passing nothing, as long as it doesn't have any sneaky clauses that enable things (rather than just failing to block everything). It doesn't prevent passing the next one calling for an actual ceasefire too.

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MrMolinaro
03/23/24 4:46:36 AM
#364:


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/03/22/israel-largest-west-bank-settlement-blinken-visit/

Israels far-right finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, announced the seizure of 10 square kilometers (3.8 square miles) of Palestinian territory in the West Bank on Friday. The move marks the single largest land seizure by the Israeli government since the 1993 Oslo accords, according to Peace Now, a settlement watchdog group.

Fridays land order is particularly problematic for the prospect of a two-state solution, experts say.If Israel confiscates land around Jerusalem, all the way to the Dead Sea, there will be no future for a Palestinian capital in East Jerusalem, said Hamza Zubiedat, a land rights activist for the Ramallah-based Maan Development Center. This is where a Palestinian capital was supposed to be located, according to the American and European talks.The land transfer will also cut across the West Bank, dividing the north and south.
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[deleted]
03/23/24 7:02:11 AM
#367:


[deleted]
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Cheater87
03/23/24 7:30:33 AM
#365:


Israel looking to claim Gaza as a new settler colony.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/israeli-commander-calls-to-resettle-gaza-reprimanded-by-idf/ar-BB1kox5P

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Ricemills
03/23/24 7:31:24 AM
#366:


MrMolinaro posted...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/03/22/israel-largest-west-bank-settlement-blinken-visit/

Oh hey, just like the topic title said

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Funkydog
03/23/24 9:52:07 AM
#368:


Israel: "we're not committing genocide we're just ensuring not a single Palestinian remains alive or had a place to call home. Also anyone who opposes starving children is Hamas"

The Israeli government, the IOF and those supporting them are evil monsters and hopefully history will place them alongside the other monsters of the past.

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VirtuousWrath
03/23/24 10:08:54 AM
#369:


I don't why Hamas doesn't just surrender and make some sort of treaty.

Also, consider this, chud buds

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Israel

vs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_State_of_Palestine

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Teddytalks
03/23/24 10:11:12 AM
#370:


VirtuousWrath posted...
I don't why Hamas doesn't just surrender and make some sort of treaty.

Also, consider this, chud buds

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Israel

vs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_State_of_Palestine
Another one to block

Why do you dudes brain just short circuit when non white people get involved. It like you all racist like destiny and Ben Shapiro and want to see Arabs die. Seriously, you people make me not want to vote at all.

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emblem-man
03/23/24 10:27:11 AM
#371:


The resolution also called for Hamas to actually release the hostages right? Which the previous ones didn't?

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IceCreamOnStero
03/23/24 10:28:50 AM
#372:


VirtuousWrath posted...
I don't why Hamas doesn't just surrender and make some sort of treaty.

Also, consider this, chud buds

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Israel

vs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_State_of_Palestine
Trolls used to put some effort in.

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tankboy
03/23/24 10:34:23 AM
#373:


VirtuousWrath posted...
I don't why Hamas doesn't just surrender and make some sort of treaty.

Because Hamas is primarily interested in destroying Israel, and only somewhat interested in protecting Palestinians. They are currently successfully turning world opinion more against Israel than ever, which brings them closer to victory.
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Fenriswolf
03/23/24 10:34:33 AM
#374:


VirtuousWrath posted...
I don't why Hamas doesn't just surrender and make some sort of treaty.

Also, consider this, chud buds

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Israel

vs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_State_of_Palestine


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkwashing_(LGBT)#Israel

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emblem-man
03/23/24 10:34:39 AM
#375:


VirtuousWrath posted...
I don't why Hamas doesn't just surrender and make some sort of treaty.
It'd be good to see more pressure put on Qatar and other middle east countries that give Hamas support, to force Hamas to give up. Rather than only pressure being put against Israel.

But

VirtuousWrath posted...
Also, consider this, chud buds

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Israel

vs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_State_of_Palestine
This doesn't fucking matter at all when it comes to the horrendous conditions that Gazans are going through

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DnDer
03/23/24 10:37:14 AM
#376:


emblem-man posted...
It'd be good to see more pressure put on Qatar and other middle east countries that give Hamas support, to force Hamas to give up. Rather than only pressure being put against Israel.

Putting pressure against Israel is also putting pressure against another middle eastern country that gives hamas support.

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IceCreamOnStero
03/23/24 10:39:16 AM
#377:


emblem-man posted...
It'd be good to see more pressure put on Qatar and other middle east countries that give Hamas support, to force Hamas to give up. Rather than only pressure being put against Israel.

Until Israel stops denying Palestinians dignity and self determination, and as long as Palestinians have no peaceful avenues to stand up for themselves, there will be nobpressure on Hamas.

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Hornezz
03/23/24 10:44:30 AM
#378:


emblem-man posted...
The resolution also called for Hamas to actually release the hostages right? Which the previous ones didn't?
The previous two that were vetoed by the US did so too:

The one from UAE in December: "It demanded an immediate humanitarian ceasefire, and the immediate and unconditional release of hostages as well as humanitarian access."
https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/12/1144562

The Algerian one in February: [rejects the] "forced displacement of the Palestinian civilian population in violation of international law and would demand an immediate end to any such violations and the immediate and unconditional release of all hostages"
https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/02/1146697

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cjsdowg
03/23/24 10:47:00 AM
#379:


After this... I never want to see a main stream dem say a fucking thing about the military industrial industry

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Foppe
03/23/24 10:49:02 AM
#380:


VirtuousWrath posted...
Also, consider this, chud buds

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Israel

vs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_State_of_Palestine
...so you justify what Israel do because of LGBT rights?
What is this, a Stonetoss comic?

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emblem-man
03/23/24 10:49:54 AM
#381:


DnDer posted...
Putting pressure against Israel is also putting pressure against another middle eastern country that gives hamas support.
Yes. And I'm saying it should be put against others as well, especially ones hiding some of the actual top leaders.

IceCreamOnStero posted...
Until Israel stops denying Palestinians dignity and self determination, and as long as Palestinians have no peaceful avenues to stand up for themselves, there will be nobpressure on Hamas.

That's just stupid

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IceCreamOnStero
03/23/24 11:13:10 AM
#382:


emblem-man posted...
That's just stupid

No it isn't. How do you expect to put pressure on people that have nothing to lose? When the only alternative to Hamas that Palestinians have is to lay back and die quietly, Hamas will continue to win by default

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emblem-man
03/23/24 11:23:45 AM
#383:


IceCreamOnStero posted...
No it isn't. How do you expect to put pressure on people that have nothing to lose? When the only alternative to Hamas that Palestinians have is to lay back and die quietly, Hamas will continue to win by default

But Palestinians do have something to lose. They've lost 30k lives in just the last few months. Civilians absolutely have something to lose. If Hamas cares about those lives, that should matter.

People should absolutely put pressure on Hamas (those im Gaza and those leaders outside Gaza) and supporting countries to release the hostages.

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IceCreamOnStero
03/23/24 11:29:02 AM
#384:


emblem-man posted...
But Palestinians do have something to lose. They've lost 30k lives in just the last few months. Civilians absolutely have something to lose. If Hamas cares about those lives, that should matter.

Palestinians were getting murdered before the last few months. They get murdered, displaced and treated like second class citizens regardless of what they do.

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DnDer
03/23/24 11:35:19 AM
#385:


emblem-man posted...
But Palestinians do have something to lose. They've lost 30k lives in just the last few months. Civilians absolutely have something to lose. If Hamas cares about those lives, that should matter.

People should absolutely put pressure on Hamas (those im Gaza and those leaders outside Gaza) and supporting countries to release the hostages.

I think you misunderstand the dynamic here?

After 30k, they have nothing to lose. They're facing literal famine and genocide. Netanyahu has basically printed 30k recruitment posters for hamas.

It's weird and it's sick, but every dead Palestinian makes hamas look more like the only alternative to death for these people, because there's no Palestine to go back to. Israel literally annexed their capital. (I think that was posted above.)

Putting pressure on hamas only works if there's leverage or something to lose. This is hamas's strongest bargaining position right now because they get recruits, and even if they don't, the backlash will isolate Israel and leave it vulnerable to its neighbors.

Dial back the pressure on hamas for now. Stop the genocide. The less you push on hamas, the less power they would seem to have. And then you come in and end them because people whose lives aren't massive piles of suck are so much less likely to turn to terrorism. And without that flow of anger (and thus recruits) they lose whatever mandate they pretended to have.

Also elections. Free and fair elections in Palestine would help as soon as Israel stops the famine and genocide, too. Because when the Palestinians are safe (as safe as they get with Israel as an overseer, anyway), it's going to be a hell of a lot easier to remind people that hamas are the bad guys and not the last line of defense against Israel. The votes will turn toward not-hamas at that point.

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Foppe
03/23/24 11:44:11 AM
#386:


emblem-man posted...
But Palestinians do have something to lose. They've lost 30k lives in just the last few months. Civilians absolutely have something to lose. If Hamas cares about those lives, that should matter.

People should absolutely put pressure on Hamas (those im Gaza and those leaders outside Gaza) and supporting countries to release the hostages.
Palestinians have always died.
Almost 2500 died in 2014, but nobody cared.

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emblem-man
03/23/24 11:53:18 AM
#387:


Foppe posted...
Palestinians have always died.
Almost 2500 died in 2014, but nobody cared.


IceCreamOnStero posted...
Palestinians were getting murdered before the last few months. They get murdered, displaced and treated like second class citizens regardless of what they do.

I'm not denying any of that. All I'm saying is that they have a lot to lose in the form of human lives.

The current Israeli govt and the settlers, and Hamas (and countries supporting Hamas) are the biggest impediment to a current ceasefire. I'm saying it is good to also put pressure on the latter. That is the extent to what I'm saying


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NoMeLx22x
03/23/24 11:58:28 AM
#388:


emblem-man posted...
But Palestinians do have something to lose. They've lost 30k lives in just the last few months. Civilians absolutely have something to lose. If Hamas cares about those lives, that should matter.

People should absolutely put pressure on Hamas (those im Gaza and those leaders outside Gaza) and supporting countries to release the hostages.

If you and your family were unjustly put in prison, kept there, starved, and you sat and watched other families unjustly kept there and watched them die over countless decades, what would you do?

If you heard the wardens of this prison were also allowing people to forcibly evacuate other families from their homes, bulldoze the houses, and sometimes kill them, and then move those random people into them, what would you do?

Lets say there were one group of people that consists of some of the worst guys in the prison, however they were fighting to get out, and you see them as your only means of getting out of this situation other than continuing to sit there and die, what would you do?

They certainly don't have anything to lose. I dont know how you could think otherwise.

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Foppe
03/23/24 12:03:07 PM
#389:


emblem-man posted...
I'm not denying any of that. All I'm saying is that they have a lot to lose in the form of human lives.

The current Israeli govt and the settlers, and Hamas (and countries supporting Hamas) are the biggest impediment to a current ceasefire. I'm saying it is good to also put pressure on the latter. That is the extent to what I'm saying
And how do you put pressure on Hamas?
By killing Palestinias?
Killing kids?
Stopping aid trucks?
Destroying Gaza infrastructure?
Taking more West Bank land?
Turning off the water?
Destroying hospitals?
Killing their hostages?
Destroying the West Bank economy?

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emblem-man
03/23/24 12:29:09 PM
#390:


NoMeLx22x posted...
If you and your family were unjustly put in prison, kept there, starved, and you sat and watched other families unjustly kept there and watched them die over countless decades, what would you do?

If you heard the wardens of this prison were also allowing people to forcibly evacuate other families from their homes, bulldoze the houses, and sometimes kill them, and then move those random people into them, what would you do?

Lets say there were one group of people that consists of some of the worst guys in the prison, however they were fighting to get out, and you see them as your only means of getting out of this situation other than continuing to sit there and die, what would you do?

They certainly don't have anything to lose. I dont know how you could think otherwise.


I'm not denying the level of hopelessness families and individuals will have felt and are feeling. I'm saying Palestinians as a people have lots to lose...because they do. And that's what we all want to avoid any further loss of and why we want a ceasefire.


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Kradek
03/23/24 1:08:30 PM
#391:


VirtuousWrath posted...
Also, consider this, chud buds

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Israel

vs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_State_of_Palestine

Big yikes at thinking posting this justifies anything.

Calls others chud buds, posts this after posts of Israel announcing they're going to turn Gaza into their new settlement project.

Truly detestable.

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CommonStar
03/23/24 1:51:48 PM
#392:


emblem-man posted...
I'm not denying the level of hopelessness families and individuals will have felt and are feeling. I'm saying Palestinians as a people have lots to lose...because they do. And that's what we all want to avoid any further loss of and why we want a ceasefire.
Okay, then the ceasefire should be unconditional.
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MrMolinaro
03/23/24 2:10:03 PM
#393:


https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/03/23/budget-deal-unrwa-gaza/

Congress voted early Saturday to strip hundreds of millions of dollars from the United Nations agency that distributes most of the food, medicine and basic services to Palestinians in Gaza and across the Middle East, marking what critics say is a devastating blow to a region in crisis.The United States, along with several other countries, suspended funding for the U.N. Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) in January after Israel alleged that 12 of the agencys 13,000 Gaza employees participated in Hamass cross-border attack on Oct. 7. These new restrictions, advanced by Republicans as part of an $1.2 trillion government spending package, extends the funding moratorium for at least a year.

Republicans just cut off all funding to Palestinian refugees.
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IceCreamOnStero
03/23/24 2:16:49 PM
#394:


emblem-man posted...
I'm not denying any of that. All I'm saying is that they have a lot to lose in the form of human lives.

Lives that would still be lost and oppressed even if Hamas disappeared today.

If you want someone to surrender, you have to actually respect their surrender. No ond's going to surrender if they're just going to get killed anyway. Same thing with Hamas.

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ButteryMales
03/23/24 2:20:03 PM
#395:


MrMolinaro posted...
Republicans just cut off all funding to Palestinian refugees.
The Republicans don't have the members to do that alone. Both parties cut off funding to Palestinian refugees.

If the vote isn't veto proof even Biden would be supporting it by signing it.
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Sir_Will
03/23/24 2:31:18 PM
#396:


VirtuousWrath posted...
I don't why Hamas doesn't just surrender and make some sort of treaty.

Also, consider this, chud buds

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Israel

vs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_State_of_Palestine
Don't you fucking DARE try to use us to excuse genocide!

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MrMolinaro
03/23/24 2:35:12 PM
#397:


ButteryMales posted...
The Republicans don't have the members to do that alone. Both parties cut off funding to Palestinian refugees.

If the vote isn't veto proof even Biden would be supporting it by signing it.

Both sides is never an intelligent response.
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ButteryMales
03/23/24 2:46:37 PM
#398:


MrMolinaro posted...
Both sides is never an intelligent response.
Keep saying that while Biden signs this into law. That will magically keep Palestinians from starving and dying from disease.
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CommonStar
03/23/24 2:54:40 PM
#399:


Sir_Will posted...
VirtuousWrath posted...

I don't why Hamas doesn't just surrender and make some sort of treaty.

Also, consider this, chud buds

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Israel

vs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_State_of_Palestine

Don't you fucking DARE try to use us to excuse genocide!
That sad part about people who try to use LGBT rights or Women rights as a justification for Israel's onslaught is that it shows how little they actually care about those rights when they don't even give any consideration to the Palestinian women and LGBT civilians being bombed and killed by Israel.
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MrMolinaro
03/23/24 3:02:35 PM
#400:


ButteryMales posted...
Keep saying that while Biden signs this into law. That will magically keep Palestinians from starving and dying from disease.

Biden doesnt have a choice other than shutting down the government. Trying to blame him for the Republican budget is beyond stupid.
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