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Current Events > "We made FF16 a generic action game because turn based game are ourdated..

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epik_fail1
11/01/23 6:24:14 PM
#1:


...and do not sell well"https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/a/a41bc3d6.jpg

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Irony
11/01/23 6:24:42 PM
#2:


It's definitely not generic

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UnfairRepresent
11/01/23 6:25:13 PM
#3:


I dunno if I'd describe turn based battles as Final Fantasy's "identity"

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Garabandal
11/01/23 6:25:56 PM
#4:


Turn based combat needs to make a come back

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epik_fail1
11/01/23 6:26:31 PM
#5:


UnfairRepresent posted...
I dunno if I'd describe turn based battles as Final Fantasy's "identity"

Ok, they are not all turn based, but the majority of mainline ones are

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Crimsoness
11/01/23 6:26:44 PM
#6:


Garabandal posted...
Turn based combat needs to make a come back
It never went anywhere. Pokemon is the biggest franchise in the world and has used it for every main entry

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Kamen_Rider_Blade
11/01/23 6:27:02 PM
#7:


Square Enix has ALOT of "Unrealistic Sales Expectations" around most of their titles.

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BombermanGold
11/01/23 6:27:07 PM
#8:


That's a very uh, narrow take and comparison.

Now, explain what BG3 does different from the turn-based FF games.

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#9
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SpiritSephiroth
11/01/23 6:28:28 PM
#10:


Final Fantasy has not been turnbased for around 20 years.

And whoever insinuates that Balders Gate did that well only because its turnbased is really being disingenuous.

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lorddrakath1522
11/01/23 6:28:54 PM
#11:


Here's the attention you're desperate for.

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epik_fail1
11/01/23 6:30:13 PM
#12:


Garabandal posted...
Turn based combat needs to make a come back
Persona 5, Dragon quest XI, Baldur's gate 3 and Fire emblem 3h and possibly Yakyza like a dragon(google give me confusing numbers) all sold millions. Let's be fair, barely any games will sell as much as GTA or Mario kart, so I'd argue they are making a comeback.

Let's be honest, they lost popularity in the ps3/xbox 360 era because past generations had too many of them, they are making a comeback. It seems the BG3 sales were outdated as well and it sold over 20 millions on steam alone. It could possibly be the first turn based rpg to outsell the original Pokemon games in it's lifetime

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The23rdMagus
11/01/23 6:30:28 PM
#13:


If I want a turn-based game these days, I'll play Trails/Dragon Quest/Like A Dragon - and I frequently do.

Final Fantasy isn't exactly known for sticking to its guns.

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Rharyx211
11/01/23 6:30:55 PM
#14:


tbf, my favorite FFs are 6 and 10, which are both basically turn-based.

That said, FF16's combat was fun. Just needed a bit more going on.

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epik_fail1
11/01/23 6:31:14 PM
#15:


BombermanGold posted...
That's a very uh, narrow take and comparison.

Now, explain what BG3 does different from the turn-based FF games.

Only if you are able to explain to me what God of War does differently than FF16, DMC or Bayonetta

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epik_fail1
11/01/23 6:32:08 PM
#16:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Let's pretend classic turn based games were not inspired by that mechanic and just hide it

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R_Jackal
11/01/23 6:33:05 PM
#17:


The problem isn't turn based or not, it's Squenixs utter obsession with turning Advent Children in to a game successfully, and having no idea that they're no longer top of the food chain in anything other than getting a tech demo company anymore.
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epik_fail1
11/01/23 6:34:53 PM
#18:


Rharyx211 posted...
tbf, my favorite FFs are 6 and 10, which are both basically turn-based.

That said, FF16's combat was fun. Just needed a bit more going on.

I prefered remake for 3 reasons

1-many playable characters, they were all fun to play (Although I got a bit bored easily with Barret)
2-More customisation in builds
3-While there was some generic quests, it wasn't overloaded with them. Yeah stories in side quests were great, but where were the secret dungeons, mini games?

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Necronmon
11/01/23 6:36:18 PM
#19:


Now, explain what BG3 does different from the turn-based FF games.

I guess you can have the cast be naked in gate.
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#20
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Murphiroth
11/01/23 6:37:16 PM
#22:


BG3 isn't really comparable to Final Fantasy, so that's a fail.

Final Fantasy has always reinvented itself to some degree, another fail.

Squenix is very well known for unrealistic sales goals, the game sold fine, another fail.

That's a picture of Hironobu Sakaguchi who had absolutely no hand in FFXVI, another fail.

Meme is garbage, your post is garbage, end of.
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Doe
11/01/23 6:37:16 PM
#21:


Name a Final Fantasy game with a turn based combat system even 1/5th as interesting or interactive as DnD 5e.

Final Fantasy is about tapping down to your strongest attack and selecting with A

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TheDurinator
11/01/23 6:42:46 PM
#23:


As someone who played both of these and thinks BG3 is GOTD and FF16 is a steaming turd, I can say with confidence that these two games have nothing to do with each other and shouldn't be compared. DnD 5E is also nothing like turn-based JRPGs in general, especially not FF which is almost always ATB anyway.
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PowerOats
11/01/23 6:46:18 PM
#24:


Murphiroth posted...
BG3 isn't really comparable to Final Fantasy, so that's a fail.

Final Fantasy has always reinvented itself to some degree, another fail.

Squenix is very well known for unrealistic sales goals, the game sold fine, another fail.

That's a picture of Hironobu Sakaguchi who had absolutely no hand in FFXVI, another fail.

Meme is garbage, your post is garbage, end of.


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NoxObscuras
11/01/23 6:47:32 PM
#25:


Rharyx211 posted...
tbf, my favorite FFs are 6 and 10, which are both basically turn-based.

That said, FF16's combat was fun. Just needed a bit more going on.
This. I was a bit disappointed with how the combat turned out, honestly. They hired the main guy that worked on Devil May Cry 5's combat. I wasn't expecting them to go full Devil May Cry style, but at least make the different forms fight differently and give Clive some combos and things. It wasn't bad, it just had a lot more potential.

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Punished_Blinx
11/01/23 6:47:50 PM
#26:


Tbh if Square-Enix actually want Final Fantasy to be a mainstream mega hit it needs to be a critically acclaimed open world game.

Any other pitch they can think of isn't going to get the attention of the mainstream.

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PowerOats
11/01/23 6:48:26 PM
#27:


Punished_Blinx posted...
Tbh if Square-Enix actually want Final Fantasy to be a mainstream mega hit it needs to be a critically acclaimed open world game.

Any other pitch they can think of isn't going to get the attention of the mainstream.


Then Rebirth is set to break records
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Rika_Furude
11/01/23 6:49:54 PM
#28:


It has the KH3 problem. Core gameplay is fun but its so trivially easy that theres no real point playing it
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s0nicfan
11/01/23 6:51:53 PM
#29:


Final fantasy could put turn based battles back in and everyone would just pivot to bitching about there not being an auto battle option because 99% of the battles in the game are mashing the attack button autopilot fights anyway.

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HannibalBarca3
11/01/23 6:53:35 PM
#30:


BG3 combat is a whole different beast than the tradional four dudes in a row style of final fantasy.

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Northlane
11/01/23 6:55:10 PM
#31:


Rika_Furude posted...
It has the KH3 problem. Core gameplay is fun but its so trivially easy that theres no real point playing it
Are there really any action RPGs being made nowadays that have challenging, engaging combat that aren't in From Software's library or the Soulslike genre?

I can't think of a single one

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epik_fail1
11/01/23 6:56:58 PM
#32:


Doe posted...
Name a Final Fantasy game with a turn based combat system even 1/5th as interesting or interactive as DnD 5e.

Final Fantasy is about tapping down to your strongest attack and selecting with A

Final Fantasy tactics.

Wow that was hard!

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Ivany2008
11/01/23 6:59:00 PM
#33:


The sad part is... they had a great turn-based system in FF13. The major issue was that you could only use a single party member in combat, and every other character was controlled by AI. That same system they eventually threw in Octopath and its incredible.
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OracleGunner
11/01/23 6:59:14 PM
#34:


epik_fail1 posted...
Only if you are able to explain to me what God of War does differently than FF16, DMC or Bayonetta
Which version of God of War?

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epik_fail1
11/01/23 6:59:39 PM
#35:


HannibalBarca3 posted...
BG3 combat is a whole different beast than the tradional four dudes in a row style of final fantasy.

It's almost like they could have modernised the genre instead of dropping it

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epik_fail1
11/01/23 7:00:12 PM
#36:


OracleGunner posted...
Which version of God of War?

We are talking about modern games here

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OracleGunner
11/01/23 7:00:19 PM
#37:


epik_fail1 posted...
It's almost like they could have modernised the genre instead of dropping it
Define modernise

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epik_fail1
11/01/23 7:02:29 PM
#38:


OracleGunner posted...
Define modernise

More interactions with the environment, being able to move like a crpg or srpg in battles. Make CC more relevant or even do like Persona 5 where weaknesses and resistance is a massive part of the game

For references : Yakuza Infinite wealth will do exactly that when it's released

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Tyranthraxus
11/01/23 7:02:49 PM
#39:


The last brand new, non-gacha, and turn based final fantasy is Final Fantasy Dimensions

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OracleGunner
11/01/23 7:11:57 PM
#40:


epik_fail1 posted...
We are talking about modern games here
I'll assume 2018 and ragnarok for comparisons sake.

Now in the most basic sense the main flow of combat in GoW 2018 is far more grounded and slower than in DMC and Bayonetta, enemy groupings are also less in comparative difficulty modes and your options are far slower to unlock.

2018 also has the disadvantage of having shoehorned stats into it so if you want to do more damage, better craft the equipment that doesn't provide new moves, just higher numbers for damage. While somewhat aliviated by the exp granting new moves, it is simultaneously hobbled by the cooldown based economy on specials, vs the original's meter based system.

Mind you DMC and Bayonetta aren't perfect, but you can choose to just get new moves and you aren't screwed entirely, then again they aren't semi open worlds, meaning the Balance economy is very different.

The issue with 16 is that it refuses to truly commit to being an action game, there are some weird choices like only 2 abilities per Eikon, all of them being cooldowm based with your DT being the only use for meter, the posture break idea is decent, but hobbled as well since its not fully developed. Magic being reduced to a simple damage is somewhat disappointing since you'd think some elemental breaking could've been added, or hell make magic better for breaking the posture, give it something beyond range. DMC has gunslinger, Bayonetta has bullet climax among other things that make the guns varied and Ragnarok has each melee besides the fist do something when used at range.

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OracleGunner
11/01/23 7:12:23 PM
#41:


epik_fail1 posted...
More interactions with the environment, being able to move like a crpg or srpg in battles. Make CC more relevant or even do like Persona 5 where weaknesses and resistance is a massive part of the game

For references : Yakuza Infinite wealth will do exactly that when it's released
So make it smt.

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NoxObscuras
11/01/23 7:12:50 PM
#42:


epik_fail1 posted...
It's almost like they could have modernised the genre instead of dropping it
Square Enix has Dragon Quest and Octopath Traveler if you want turn based

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Robot2600
11/01/23 7:13:42 PM
#43:


Give the bosses some fucking HP, square.

Persona 4 bosses were like 40 minute fights.

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StealThisSheen
11/01/23 7:15:44 PM
#44:


Robot2600 posted...
Give the bosses some fucking HP, square.

Persona 4 bosses were like 40 minute fights.

No, gross. 40 minute fights are terrible.

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Hayame_Zero
11/01/23 7:16:19 PM
#45:


SpiritSephiroth posted...
Final Fantasy has not been turnbased for around 20 years.

And whoever insinuates that Balders Gate did that well only because its turnbased is really being disingenuous.

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Xenogears15
11/01/23 7:16:26 PM
#46:


Robot2600 posted...
Give the bosses some fucking HP, square.

Persona 4 bosses were like 40 minute fights.

FF and Ultimaniac mode kinda does this well, but enemies do feel kinda spongey.

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MarcyWarcy
11/01/23 7:20:29 PM
#47:


people are getting tired of brainless arpg shit thankfully

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NoxObscuras
11/01/23 7:23:12 PM
#48:


Robot2600 posted...
Give the bosses some fucking HP, square.

Persona 4 bosses were like 40 minute fights.
Ew no. Have you played FF16? The bosses have quite a bit of HP already. Most bosses took me 7+ minutes IIRC.

And Persona 4's dungeons could get pretty long, but the boss fights themselves were nowhere near 40 minutes lol.

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Hayame_Zero
11/01/23 7:24:56 PM
#49:


Robot2600 posted...
Give the bosses some fucking HP, square.

Persona 4 bosses were like 40 minute fights.
Literally no. Regular boss fights should never be that long.

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Squall28
11/01/23 7:36:52 PM
#50:


Murphiroth posted...
BG3 isn't really comparable to Final Fantasy, so that's a fail.

Final Fantasy has always reinvented itself to some degree, another fail.

Squenix is very well known for unrealistic sales goals, the game sold fine, another fail.

That's a picture of Hironobu Sakaguchi who had absolutely no hand in FFXVI, another fail.

Meme is garbage, your post is garbage, end of.

What made BG3 great for me is it reminded me of older final fantasies. I never cared much for turnbase, but what is great about older final fantasies and bg3 is that the world and quests feel like they are designed piece by piece. Every part feels unique. Character and NPC dialogue feels like the writers are sharing jokes with the player.

Final fantasies after 10 has that disgusting MMO type gameplay where it feels like you're doing chores for quests, and it's more of a spectacle than a game.

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