Current Events > People are getting DQ'd from Pokemon Worlds for hacked pokemon

(+) Yeah! (+)

They are called pocket monster trainers, not pocket monster fighters.

DarkBuster22904 posted...

This isn't a meaningful restriction; it's busywork.

You've successfully boiled down winning a pokemon tournament to as much cultural value as an NFT. Awesome

lucariopikmin posted...

Which ones are saying that besides people with obvious bad hacks because every time I see one justifying it they say it's because of ease of use or because they don't have time to get the right stuff because of something like real life.

You could read this topic and find people arguing it doesn't give advantage while stating why it gives advantage
lucariopikmin posted...

But serious answer, neither because it doesn't take long to fix it and both can still practice during their fix time.

So you're going to ignore the time needed for retraining/catching/breeding, vs hopping onto a computer and editing a file?

It's never been easier to power up Pokemon, I don't see why they feel the need to cheat.

StealThisSheen posted...

No, because SOMEBODY still took that time, vs. hacking means nobody took the time at all. If you want to pay somebody for their time... Okay, that's on you. But when you just hack, literally nobody spent any time whatsoever.

From a competitive standpoint, why does this matter at all? Throughout this topic, you've been saying that if people don't want to put in the time, then don't enter. Why is it ok to skip the time sink process by paying money for someones team, but not ok through other means like generating a team?

If person A buys a set of Pokemon from someone, and person B generates a team through software, then this ultimately becomes a fair battle because the process by which the team is acquired doesn't matter when it's time to fight. The outcome will be determined by the usual factors (team composition, knowledge checks, etc.)

But if you ban acquiring Pokemon through generation, but approve of them being acquired through money, the tournement becomes less about who is the best Pokemon player and more about who has the most money.

PiOverlord posted...

They are called pocket monster trainers, not pocket monster fighters.

Meanwhile they're out here inventing Porygon and doing who knows what to him to make him turn into Porygon-Z.
Oh sure, I guess it's fine when it's unspecified Poke-scientists coming up with the get-Pokemon-quick schemes.

Gamefreak1000 posted...

From a competitive standpoint, why does this matter at all? Throughout this topic, you've been saying that if people don't want to put in the time, then don't enter. Why is it ok to skip the time sink process by paying money for someones team, but not ok through other means like generating a team?

If person A buys a set of Pokemon from someone, and person B generates a team through software, then this ultimately becomes a fair battle because the process by which the team is acquired doesn't matter when it's time to fight. The outcome will be determined by the usual factors (team composition, knowledge checks, etc.)

But if you ban acquiring Pokemon through generation, but approve of them being acquired through money, the tournement becomes less about who is the best Pokemon player and more about who has the most money.

Sohow often is the purchasing of an entire team happening?

CM_Ponch posted...

You could read this topic and find people arguing it doesn't give advantage while stating why it gives advantage

Which has gotten explained to you several times. Nor is it actually relevant to that argument.

CM_Ponch posted...

So you're going to ignore the time needed for retraining/catching/breeding, vs hopping onto a computer and editing a file?

Why are you complaining about me ignoring something when you literally ignore the later half that addresses that shit point you're trying to make. And you yourself are putting B at a disadvantage now because they need a computer, good job.

Gamefreak1000 posted...

From a competitive standpoint, why does this matter at all? Throughout this topic, you've been saying that if people don't want to put in the time, then don't enter. Why is it ok to skip the time sink process by paying money for someones team, but not ok through other means like generating a team?

Because someone actually dedicated time to that pokemon and made sure it was legal. Someone had to understand how to build it to that specific need.

CM_Ponch posted...

Because someone actually dedicated time to that pokemon and made sure it was legal. Someone had to understand how to build it to that specific need.

I did that too and it SUCKED. Genning is way easier

lucariopikmin posted...

Why are you complaining about me ignoring something when you literally ignore the later half that addresses that s*** point you're trying to make. And you yourself are putting B at a disadvantage now because they need a computer, good job.

Once again, you have to create all these hoops to pretend genning puts you at a disadvantage.

lucariopikmin posted...

Which has gotten explained to you several times. Nor is it actually relevant to that argument.

And your explanation was bad, that's why we're stuck here, because at the end of it you're trying to justify cheating

DKBananaSlamma posted...

I did that too and it SUCKED. Genning is way easier

Is it really way easier than just using a few bottle caps, mint, and patch?

CM_Ponch posted...

Once again, you have to create all these hoops to pretend genning puts you at a disadvantage.

You don't give a shit about this when you made a very specific scenario to put genning at an "advantage" while needing additional rules to help you even more and then flopped around when you needed to address the serious answer. By the way, that also isn't relevant to the actual argument again.

CM_Ponch posted...

And your explanation was bad, that's why we're stuck here, because at the end of it you're trying to justify cheating

You will quote where I said that cheating is fine. Wouldn't want to show that you're lying now.

CM_Ponch posted...

Because someone actually dedicated time to that pokemon and made sure it was legal. Someone had to understand how to build it to that specific need.

But again, from a COMPETITIVE standpoint, why does that matter? In this scenario, we're talking about two people who skipped the process of raising it themselves. One traded it from another player, and one generated it.

If being able to generate Pokemon is an unfair advantage, I don't understand why having money and connections also wouldn't be considered an unfair advantage.

lucariopikmin posted...

You don't give a s*** about this when you made a very specific scenario to put genning at an "advantage" while needing additional rules to help you even more and then flopped around when you needed to address the serious answer. By the way, that also isn't relevant to the actual argument again.

It's not a very specific scenario, it's literally what the actual event is like. If Genners weren't gaining an advantage by cheating they wouldn't be cheating.

lucariopikmin posted...

You will quote where I said that cheating is fine. Wouldn't want to show that you're lying now.

You being pro genning is saying cheating is fine

Gamefreak1000 posted...

But again, from a COMPETITIVE standpoint, why does that matter? In this scenario, we're talking about two people who skipped the process of raising it themselves. One traded it from another player, and one generated it.

If being able to generate Pokemon is an unfair advantage, I don't understand why having money and connections also wouldn't be considered an unfair advantage.

Because one person generated a pokemon out of thin air while the other had one that actually had effort put into it, if your example shift to someone paid money, then that's even more reason the genners is at an advantage

Gamefreak1000 posted...

But again, from a COMPETITIVE standpoint, why does that matter? In this scenario, we're talking about two people who skipped the process of raising it themselves. One traded it from another player, and one generated it.

If being able to generate Pokemon is an unfair advantage, I don't understand why having money and connections also wouldn't be considered an unfair advantage.

The same way it's not considered bad in TCG, It's all based on the legal rule sets in play. You can't use 3rd Party Programs.

CM_Ponch posted...

Because one person generated a pokemon out of thin air while the other had one that actually had effort put into it, if your example shift to someone paid money, then that's even more reason the genners is at an advantage

It had the effort of a 3rd party put into it, but not that of the competitor. In fact, I would actually argue the player going through the process of generating a Pokemon and putting it in their game is going through far more effort than the person who just traded to skip the process (regardless of money involved). The person who put in the most effort is the one who raised it, who isn't even battling and thus irrelevant to the scenario.

CM_Ponch posted...

It's not a very specific scenario, it's literally what the actual event is like.

They have longer prep time than 24 hours.

CM_Ponch posted...

You being pro genning is saying cheating is fine

I asked you to quote here I said it was fine, not for you to make excuses so you can keep your lies up.
CM_Ponch posted...

I gen my pokemon

Also a lot of irony in you lying about others being "fine with cheating" when you have no issues with it yourself.

Tyranthraxus posted...

Is it really way easier than just using a few bottle caps, mint, and patch?

Yes, it really is >_> Dont have to grind myself silly for BP

Gamefreak1000 posted...

It had the effort of a 3rd party put into it, but not that of the competitor

The 3rd party being someone who played a legal copy of the game and trained a legal pokemon within the confines of said game?

lucariopikmin posted...

They have longer prep time than 24 hours.

Then why do you need to Gen if you have so much time?

lucariopikmin posted...

Also a lot of irony in you lying about others being "fine with cheating" when you have no issues with it yourself.

Nice of you to ignore the rest of that sentence which you agreed with

CM_Ponch posted...

The 3rd party being someone who played a legal copy of the game and trained a legal pokemon within the confines of said game?

Yes, and?

Please note I'm not asking why Nintendo banned sloppily generated Pokemon. I'm asking what difference it makes on a competitive level. As in, if I was a player in that tournament, what difference does it make if my opponent is using a generated team versus an opponent who is using borrowed Pokemon.

Gamefreak1000 posted...

Yes, and?

Please note I'm not asking why Nintendo banned sloppily generated Pokemon. I'm asking what difference it makes on a competitive level. As in, if I was a player in that tournament, what difference does it make if my opponent is using a generated team versus an opponent who is using borrowed Pokemon.

The differences is in the legality of Generated Pokemon versus Pokemon train legitmately in game without 3rd party software creating them.

CM_Ponch posted...

Then why do you need to Gen if you have so much time?

Has gotten explained several times and isn't relevant to the actual argument. It's fine to admit that you're wrong and that it isn't the same as the very specific scenario that you handpicked.

CM_Ponch posted...

Nice of you to ignore the rest of that sentence which you agreed with

Didn't agree with it nor was the rest of relevant to the argument nor does it change the fact that you're fine with cheating. You're also once again bitching about people "ignoring" things when you're doing that yourself to begin with.

What's the matter? Can't back up your lies?

Gamefreak1000 posted...

Please note I'm not asking why Nintendo banned sloppily generated Pokemon. I'm asking what difference it makes on a competitive level. As in, if I was a player in that tournament, what difference does it make if my opponent is using a generated team versus an opponent who is using borrowed Pokemon.

One cheated and one didn't. One did everything under the guidelines TPC set and one didn't.

lucariopikmin posted...

You're right about that and it is funny to see them complain about their bad hacks getting detected.

This you?

lucariopikmin posted...

Has gotten explained several times and isn't relevant to the actual argument.

Why genning gives an advantage isn't relevant to the why genning is considered cheating argument?

CM_Ponch posted...

This you?

You do understand that I agreed with the later half of that and not the first part, right? Not that it is actually relevant to the part where you lied about me being "fine with cheating" while you're fine doing it yourself which you don't want to address, just like the rest that you're ignoring.

CM_Ponch posted...

One did everything under the guidelines TPC set and one didn't.

That is correct. The TPC is allowed to set and enforce the guidelines they want, and I even understand why they set the guidelines they did.

What I don't understand is why it's an issue to skip the raising and breeding process by generating Pokemon, but not an issue to skip the raising and breeding process by trading. If both Pokemon have legal movesets, stat lines and abilities, then it's a completely even playing field when it's time to actually battle.

My posts aren't addressing the TPC's tournament rules so much as addressing some of the short-sighted arguments in this topic.

Gamefreak1000 posted...

That is correct. The TPC is allowed to set and enforce the guidelines they want, and I even understand why they set the guidelines they did.

What I don't understand is why it's an issue to skip the raising and breeding process by generating Pokemon, but not an issue to skip the raising and breeding process by trading. If both Pokemon have legal movesets, stat lines and abilities, then it's a completely even playing field when it's time to actually battle.

My posts aren't addressing the TPC's tournament rules so much as addressing some of the short-sighted arguments in this topic.

That's more of an issue with hackers/cheaters/botters/macroers flooding and devaluing the market

lucariopikmin posted...

You do understand that I agreed with the later half of that and not the first part, right? Not that it is actually relevant to the part where you lied about me being "fine with cheating" while you're fine doing it yourself which you don't want to address, just like the rest that you're ignoring.

I already addressed it when I said I understand the risk and am not going to cry over the consequences. No one can stop you from cheating, just don't cry when you get caught.

Gamefreak1000 posted...

What I don't understand is why it's an issue to skip the raising and breeding process by generating Pokemon, but not an issue to skip the raising and breeding process by trading. If both Pokemon have legal movesets, stat lines and abilities, then it's a completely even playing field when it's time to actually battle.

One of the core aspects of pokemon as a series is training and trading. If you value your time enough to raise a pokemon for someone else then you're doing what the series was intended to do

Gamefreak1000 posted...

That is correct. The TPC is allowed to set and enforce the guidelines they want, and I even understand why they set the guidelines they did.

What I don't understand is why it's an issue to skip the raising and breeding process by generating Pokemon, but not an issue to skip the raising and breeding process by trading. If both Pokemon have legal movesets, stat lines and abilities, then it's a completely even playing field when it's time to actually battle.

My posts aren't addressing the TPC's tournament rules so much as addressing some of the short-sighted arguments in this topic.

Because at the end of the day one is created specifically to skip the
majority of what goes into creating a team via third party software use.

CM_Ponch posted...

One of the core aspects of pokemon as a series is training and trading. If you value your time enough to raise a pokemon for someone else then you're doing what the series was intended to do

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/2/2/AAXqMxAAEvpK.jpg

lol, didn't seem to work out for this guy.

Fenrir_Howls posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/2/2/AAXqMxAAEvpK.jpg

lol, didn't seem to work out for this guy.

Seems like the reputable trainer was probably full of shit huh? Hell the entire post more paints a picture that makes me question more things.

Baha05 posted...

Seems like the reputable trainer was probably full of shit huh?

You'd know.

Also calling BS on anyone claiming it would be okay if someone bought or was simply given a competitive team. Fans have constantly gatekepted what was "acceptable". Back in the day people bitched when players breed 6 IV Ditto despite the egg hatched being legit in TPC's eyes.

That's why you gotta gen them yourself. You gotta do it right

Gamefreak1000 posted...

Yes, and?

Please note I'm not asking why Nintendo banned sloppily generated Pokemon. I'm asking what difference it makes on a competitive level. As in, if I was a player in that tournament, what difference does it make if my opponent is using a generated team versus an opponent who is using borrowed Pokemon.

Functionally, none whatsoever.

Fenrir_Howls posted...

lol, didn't seem to work out for this guy.

Brady was in hot water last week for copying Wolfey's leaked team. So we know he doesn't build his own teams, now we know he doesn't prep his own pokemon. He charges for coaching BTW.

Fenrir_Howls posted...

You'd know.

Also calling BS on anyone claiming it would be okay if someone bought or was simply given a competitive team. Fans have constantly gatekepted what was "acceptable". Back in the day people bitched when players breed 6 IV Ditto despite the egg hatched being legit in TPC's eyes.

Except for the fact I don't deal in gen Pokemon, on top of that consider the context of the message makes it more clear that he's making shit up.

At the end of the day, if they got rid of the rule against genning it would not effect gameplay in any way and would actually probably improve things as getting rid of the biggest roadblock would bring more players.

That makes it a stupid rule. It's not cheating and gives you zero advantage, it's completely arbitrary.

CM_Ponch posted...

One of the core aspects of pokemon as a series is training and trading. If you value your time enough to raise a pokemon for someone else then you're doing what the series was intended to do

That's one of the core aspects of Pokemon as a whole, yes. But it's not the core aspect of a Pokemon Battle tournament. Pokemon tournaments don't quiz your knowledge of the story, or check how many eggs you've hatched. It focuses in specifically on the battle aspect and tests your matchup knowledge. As long as the Pokemon you're battling against is legal in all areas, it doesn't make a difference how the Pokemon came into existence.

Sexypwnstar posted...

That's more of an issue with hackers/cheaters/botters/macroers flooding and devaluing the market

That's fair, but for a game like Pokemon, I think all that ultimately does is lower the barrier of entry. If someone has level 100 Pokemon and they're playing against non-fully leveled Pokemon, they're most likely going to win. If both are level 100, then the one who is EV/IV trained is going to win. If both are at 100 and appropriately trained, that's when the depth of Pokemon's battle system starts to come out and knowledge/team composition becomes paramount.

Without genning or battle simulators, a lot of people would be stuck on the lower levels, not willing to put in the time to overcome the competitive entry barrier. At the highest level of play (like Worlds), EVERYONE is going to have a fully leveled/trained team, and it matters less how you obtained your team, and more how you use them.

RuneterranSnap posted...

At the end of the day, if they got rid of the rule against genning it would not effect gameplay in any way and would actually probably improve things as getting rid of the biggest roadblock would bring more players.

That makes it a stupid rule. It's not cheating and gives you zero advantage, it's completely arbitrary.

At the end of the day it ruins part of how these games are played an encourages cheating for something that has prize money on the table.

RuneterranSnap posted...

At the end of the day, if they got rid of the rule against genning it would not effect gameplay in any way and would actually probably improve things as getting rid of the biggest roadblock would bring more players.

That makes it a stupid rule. It's not cheating and gives you zero advantage, it's completely arbitrary.

This is pretty much how I feel about it. Fuck if they were genned or not. Do they have stats and moves that are attainable within the confines of the game? If so, just let em play. Until that happens tho, you got two choices, gen your pokemon properly or raise them yourself. Them's the breaks.

Unknown5uspect posted...

This is pretty much how I feel about it. Fuck if they were genned or not. Do they have stats and moves that are attainable within the confines of the game? If so, just let em play. Until that happens tho, you got two choices, gen your pokemon properly or raise them yourself. Them's the breaks.

Then play non official competitions.

To me, the power of friendship will make my pokemon stronger!

Baha05 posted...

Then play non official competitions.

Did you like even bother to read my post or what?

Unknown5uspect posted...

Did you like even bother to read my post or what?

Yes and that doesn't negate my point because the argument is talking about officially sanctioned tournaments. If people want to use Genned Pokemon there are other ways to do so.

Baha05 posted...

At the end of the day it ruins part of how these games are played an encourages cheating for something that has prize money on the table.

Dude, people still would gen Pokemon for personal use often because of the difficulty of acquiring the legally.

Fenrir_Howls posted...

Dude, people still would gen Pokemon for personal use often because of the difficulty of acquiring the legally.

And they can do that and choose not to enter them into competitions.