Current Events > I'm playing Pathfinder: WotR and I have no idea what I'm doing. *spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

There are so many options, it's overwhelming. This might be the most intimidating of the D&D type games I've played. (I adapted quickly with Baldur's Gate and Divinity Original Sin, but this might take longer).

The game is based on Pathfinder 1e. Whatever that means.

Anything I need to know or what to watch out for? I'm flyin blind here. I'm a little over an hour into it already.

Play an alchemist and chuck bombs

Pathfinder is an alternative to D&D, with the first edition basically being an update to 3.5.

And the only major thing that comes to mind is that the best ending is locked behind finishing the final story bits during a very specific part of the year. While it is definitely possible to figure that out in game actually timing it can be a bit awkward, especially if you take your time as you can pass the dates by and then have to wait around a full in-game year. For that reason, as well as the ability to fix bugs as they show up, you should really consider downloading the ToyBox mod as it can smooth out some of the more awkward bits that were left in (as well as adding in other missing Pathfinder features).

Crimsoness posted...

Play an alchemist and chuck bombs

I'm a Female Aasarimar or whatever Sorceror because I like flinging fireballs. I heard alchemists can be OP tho.

Ivynn posted...

There are so many options, it's overwhelming. This might be the most intimidating of the D&D type games I've played. (I adapted quickly with Baldur's Gate and Divinity Original Sin, but this might take longer).

The game is based on Pathfinder 1e. Whatever that means.

Anything I need to know or what to watch out for? I'm flyin blind here. I'm a little over an hour into it already.

Pathfinder 1e is basically DnD 3.5.

The game itself is (depending on your difficulty settings) a bit more "hardcore" in using the Pen and Paper rules than your usual D&D games are.

And Wrath of the righteous is pretty badass high fantasy from the very first minute. You won't go around as lvl 1 character, rescuing cats from trees and killing rats in the sewers.

Depending on your difficulty settings it's totally normal to be overwhelmed.

About stuff you should know? Just don't ignore sidequests, especially if they involve your (potential) side characters, and maybe think ahead what your character is supposed to be.

Find a role and stick to it.

Also:
Utility spells >>>>> damage spells, especially early game.

EDIT:
And don't be afraid to start anew.

You may want to take other "paths" sooner or later anyways.

Not all classes are amazing

Some of the mythic paths are a lot stronger than others, but it can depend on your class

E.g. Lich is crazy strong for casters, Angel is crazy strong for clerics/paladins etc

At least as of last time i played

I'd say the most important mechanic to understand is AC vs touch AC

What class are you rolling?

Crimsoness posted...

Play an alchemist and chuck bombs

I wouldnt

ellis123 posted...

Pathfinder is an alternative to D&D, with the first edition basically being an update to 3.5.

And the only major thing that comes to mind is that the best ending is locked behind finishing the final story bits during a very specific part of the year. While it is definitely possible to figure that out in game actually timing it can be a bit awkward, especially if you take your time as you can pass the dates by and then have to wait around a full in-game year. For that reason, as well as the ability to fix bugs as they show up, you should really consider downloading the ToyBox mod as it can smooth out some of the more awkward bits that were left in (as well as adding in other missing Pathfinder features).

The best ending is locked behind a specific time of the year? That's insane, so I've got a time limit to finish then? That's lame.

I'd rather not use mods for a first playthrough

Karovorak posted...

The game itself is (depending on your difficulty settings) a bit more "hardcore" in using the Pen and Paper rules than your usual D&D games are.

Ngl, it's kinda confusing for me. I'm playing on Normal. Should bump it down to Casual to get a feel of things first?

Karovorak posted...

And Wrath of the righteous is pretty badass high fantasy from the very first minute.

I'll say! First I'm at a festival, downing a pint, the next minute a bunch of demons, insects, and insect demons invade, a giant bug god descends, and the guardian dragon gets her head lopped off! All in the first five minutes. Quite an opening that has me hooked lol

Karovorak posted...

About stuff you should know? Just don't ignore sidequests, especially if they involve your (potential) side characters, and maybe think ahead what your character is supposed to be.

Thanks. I like the side characters so I'd hate to lose them. Does this game have permadeath?

Ivynn posted...

The best ending is locked behind a specific time of the year? That's insane, so I've got a time limit to finish then? That's lame.

I'd rather not use mods for a first playthrough

No, there is no time limit. If you pass it by then you can just wait for a year. It's a specific part if a year, not a specific part of the year that you start with.

Frankly I had no troubles getting it on my first playthrough (I actually had a month or so to spare waiting around), but how you play can dictate it.

And ToyBox is basically the same as installing the fan patch for a TES game in my mind: you do it because you aren't a masochist. There were two times (that I remember) that I would have been hard locked if I didn't have ToyBox.

g980 posted...

What class are you rolling?

A Sorcerer. More specifically, a female Aasimar with a scholar background with Gold Dragon blood and also is an Angelkin that specializes in Evocation. That's a mouthful but classes here are not straightforward lol. I wanted to be Neutral Good, but I got locked into Lawful Good. She worships Agrabah or whatever you call him.

Ivynn posted...

Thanks. I like the side characters so I'd hate to lose them. Does this game have permadeath?

IIRC there is an option for it. It should be off by default on Normal.

ellis123 posted...

And ToyBox is basically the same as installing the fan patch for a TES game in my mind: you do it because you aren't a masochist. There were two times (that I remember) that I would have been hard locked if I didn't have ToyBox.

OK. I just don't want to alter the vanilla experience too much. If I get it, would I have to start over?

Ivynn posted...

Ngl, it's kinda confusing for me. I'm playing on Normal. Should bump it down to Casual to get a feel of things first?

Your choice. I think casual is more likely to give you some "bad habbits", but I honestly never used this difficulty, so I can't say.

I'll say! First I'm at a festival, downing a pint, the next minute a bunch of demons, insects, and insect demons invade, a giant bug god descends, and the guardian dragon gets her head lopped off! All in the first five minutes. Quite an opening that has me hooked lol

Thanks. I like the side characters so I'd hate to lose them. Does this game have permadeath?

That depends on the difficulty too, but even on the hardest difficulty most "gameplay" death are not truly permanent, thanks to ressurrection spells.

Dying is still pretty troublesome, especially early on with limited ressources.

Ivynn posted...

OK. I just don't want to alter the vanilla experience too much. If I get it, would I have to start over?

You shouldn't. The only things that would require that would be things like its expanded options for character creation.

And I think the defaults only really include bug-fixy things + you can turn off everything, so you're good there. Just double-check things I suppose just in case.

Okay I'll look into it after this session.

Guess I can make this my playthrough topic.

I think I'm almost done with the Shield Maze and at the first boss fight. Yeesh this scene is straight out of Dragon Age Origins.

Yeah I figured Wenduag would turn on me. Shame. She has a cool design. Time to turn her into a pile of mush.

That fight wasn't so hard as it looked. Might have to bump up the difficulty if Normal is too easy.

Wendy monologuing. This spider-kitty crazy. I think I'll kill her.

I bought the game a couple months ago, then my eyes glazed over at the character creation and I was too scared to come back

I love Pillars of Eternity and ended up looking at Pathfinder and realizing Pillars is streamlined as hell by comparison. I'd be at that character creation screen for days.

g980 posted...

Some of the mythic paths are a lot stronger than others, but it can depend on your class

E.g. Lich is crazy strong for casters, Angel is crazy strong for clerics/paladins etc

Lich is best for Arcane casters, Angel for Divine.

So a Lich Sorcerer or Angel Oracle are typically considered the craziest combos there, what with combined spellbooks (that's a gameplay mechanic spoiler, not a plot one TC).

I highly recommend grabbing Toybox, it'll outright save your file on occasion.

If restarting is on the agenda, I'd recommend rerolling as a Crossblooded Sorc with your main as whatever and your second as whatever element you want to use (Fire if you're going Gold Dragon).

Elemental bloodline gets a level 1 ability to change all spell damage to the type that matches your heritage.

So Magic Missile stops doing Force damage and would do Fire instead.

Couple that with an ability you can get towards the end of Act 2 and your life will be MUCH easier.

Last bit: right now, you'll see conversation options with Mythic paths connected. For now, those will (with the exception of like one huge choice) NOT lock you in or take away many options.

So if you're talking to some dude and an "Angel" Convo option appears, taking it won't lock you into Angel.

The point where you actually make the choice is not at all ambiguous, you'll know.

UnholyMudcrab posted...

I bought the game a couple months ago, then my eyes glazed over at the character creation and I was too scared to come back

Yeah, it's very intimidating. I don't blame you. Almost noped out myself. But I pushed through it. It actually became kind of fun digging in the details eventually.

DrizztLink posted...

Lich is best for Arcane casters, Angel for Divine.

So a Lich Sorcerer or Angel Oracle are typically considered the craziest combos there,

Well I am a Sorcerer so Lich is the way to go then? Can I be a good Lich? I'm trying to stay the Neutral Good path.

DrizztLink posted...

If restarting is on the agenda, I'd recommend rerolling as a Crossblooded Sorc with your main as whatever and your second as whatever element you want to use (Fire if you're going Gold Dragon).

Aw man, I nearly went Crossblooded but the second bloodline confused me. Welp.

Ivynn posted...

Well I am a Sorcerer so Lich is the way to go then? Can I be a good Lich? I'm trying to stay the Neutral Good path.

It's not gonna go too swimmingly (it's basically the Neutral Evil path), but you can do some major damage regardless on other paths.

Azata might be up your alley.

Ivynn posted...

Aw man, I nearly went Crossblooded but the second bloodline confused me. Welp.

Each Bloodline has a few things connected to it, the important here being Arcana and spells.

The Arcana is your level 1 ability, like that one for elemental or being able to use mind magic on undead for Undead.

They also get certain spells for free on leveling up.

So CB Sorc gets one bloodline with everything (including a skill for if you hit level 20 in the class) and one that only does that Arcana and the spells.

You can get a second bloodline at one point, just hold off until then and pick it when it becomes available.

Well I'm like 5 hours in so it's a little late to reroll. Granted much of that time was spent wandering the underground caves and Shield Maze wondering "da fuck do i do" so it probably wouldn't take as long this time.

I kinda forgot what I chose instead of Crossblooded. Think it was Oversomething Mage.

My fav builds in games like these are OP mages that just nuke everything. How would I exactly build to that?

Looking up the ToyBox mod and reading about everything it does

Nothing about this game is simple, is it

Ivynn posted...

My fav builds in games like these are OP mages that just nuke everything. How would I exactly build to that?

Spell resistance ignoring stuffs (there are several ways to go about that, so take your pick). That said, mages are more OP because of additional/non-damaging effects rather than nuking in Pathfinder. Azata can help on all fronts, though as it is pretty hardline Chaotic (with emphasis on Chaotic Good) that's potentially a bit awkward there as well.

Ivynn posted...

Looking up the ToyBox mod and reading about everything it does

Nothing about this game is simple, is it

Lol, nope. And ToyBox is *nuts* even within the context of the game. Heck, the camera system used in wotr probably came about at all because of the previous game's version of ToyBox as it added camera controls over the traditional system the original used. They nuts.

Ivynn posted...

Looking up the ToyBox mod and reading about everything it does

Nothing about this game is simple, is it

Ignore gestalt classes for now.

Basically that's just "whenever you level up you also level up in this class."

So like you can start as a 1 Sorcerer/1 Fighter and level up like that normally so you end up level 20 in two classes.

Past that and the etudes editor (think storyline variable alterations) it's not too complicated.

DO NOT FUCK WITH THE ETUDES EDITOR.

There's a page for general changes (teleport keys, always roll 20 in several different ways, no weight limits, movement speed, that sort of thing), a page for messing with character stats, a page for getting items, and then pages for stuff you'll learn about later.

It seems overwhelming but most of it is window dressing for when you want to commit some fuckery.

It also lets you get achievements while using mods if you care about those.

Ivynn posted...

I think I'm almost done with the Shield Maze and at the first boss fight. Yeesh this scene is straight out of Dragon Age Origins.

Also if you worship the right God (either Lamashtu or Urgathoa, forget which) you start thinking about recipes for Aasimar flesh from your own goddamn holy text.

As someone who has played DnD for the better part of 25 years (started at 2e, been playing 3.5 till this past year when we switched to Pathfinder 2e) the amount of classes and subclasses in this game is absurdly large. I became sort of paralyzed by the quantity of options. Luckily if you find you don't like what you picked you can always respec using the Pathfinder Society dude at your base.

I sometimes suffer from analysis paralysis too.

St0rmFury posted...

I sometimes suffer from analysis paralysis too.

Just gotta activate gestalt and choose literally everything all at once! :D

St0rmFury posted...

I sometimes suffer from analysis paralysis too.

One thing I want is a little warning that pops up that'll be like "you're making a class/race/weapon combo that is straight up just one of your companions."

My dope-ass double kukri Knife Master in Kingmaker will never see the light of day.

Which reminds me:

You might want Weapon Focus Plus, TC.

It switches things around so all the weapon feats apply to classes instead of individual types.

So Weapon Focus (Dagger) would instead be "Light Blades" and work for daggers/kukris/starknives/rapiers instead of needing 4 different feats.

DrizztLink posted...

One thing I want is a little warning that pops up that'll be like "you're making a class/race/weapon combo that is straight up just one of your companions."

My dope-ass double kukri Knife Master in Kingmaker will never see the light of day.

Nok-Nok is my homey for life.

I got ToyBox setup. Hopefully I don't screw it up and it borks my file. >_>

Might be a stupid question, but what does the yellow half of the bar mean when using Turn-Based mode? The green half is how many points you can move but you can still move when it's yellow but not attack.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/6/6/AAZaD9AAEopa.jpg

Ivynn posted...

I got ToyBox setup. Hopefully I don't screw it up and it borks my file. >_>

Might be a stupid question, but what does the yellow half of the bar mean when using Turn-Based mode? The green half is how many points you can move but you can still move when it's yellow but not attack.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/6/6/AAZaD9AAEopa.jpg

You are turning your attack action into a move action, and the yellow bar shows the time that would be taken by attacking/if you move into it you forfeit your attack to get an additional move.

Ivynn posted...

I got ToyBox setup. Hopefully I don't screw it up and it borks my file. >_>

Might be a stupid question, but what does the yellow half of the bar mean when using Turn-Based mode? The green half is how many points you can move but you can still move when it's yellow but not attack.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/6/6/AAZaD9AAEopa.jpg

The Yellow part denotes your main Action, which would be something like an attack, spell, drinking a potion, etc.

The green bit is how far you can move before you cross your movement speed (so like gnomes and their teeny little legs can't go as far in a round) then when you cross it you start cutting into the action. So like sometimes you need to sacrifice attacking if your character needs to cover a lot of ground in one round.

The last bit is your Quick Action (or something like that) where you can do a few things at the very end. For example, if you have Metamagic: Quicken, you can use it to cast another spell here. A Ranger might use Hunter's Mark, something like that.

In essence a round is like 6 seconds of combat so it's the number of things you can reasonably do in that timeframe.

ellis123 posted...

You are turning your attack action into a move action, and the yellow bar shows the time that would be taken by attacking/if you move into it you forfeit your attack to get an additional move.

Oh so it's all movement points? But only the green half is when you can attack? Heh, I was only using up the green this entire time, then ending turn. Did I mention I don't fully understand the game yet? >_>

Ivynn posted...

Oh so it's all movement points? But only the green half is when you can attack? Heh, I was only using up the green this entire time, then ending turn. Did I mention I don't fully understand the game yet? >_>

No worries. It is a *very* complex game.

I, also, only really played in real time mode as that's what I'm into with CRPGs. :V

Ivynn posted...

Oh so it's all movement points? But only the green half is when you can attack? Heh, I was only using up the green this entire time, then ending turn. Did I mention I don't fully understand the game yet? >_>

Green is free movement, yellow is sacrificing attacking for more movement.

You can look at it like Action Points from Divinity.

You can go x meters for free, y meters for 1 point, Z for 2, exactly like that but just one action.

Ivynn posted...

I got ToyBox setup. Hopefully I don't screw it up and it borks my file. >_>

Might be a stupid question, but what does the yellow half of the bar mean when using Turn-Based mode? The green half is how many points you can move but you can still move when it's yellow but not attack.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/6/6/AAZaD9AAEopa.jpg

So turn base breaks into free actions, standard actions (attacks), Move actions (or move equivalent), and full actions. Most people's base movement is 30ft. Shorter races like dwarves have less and people wearing medium to heavy armor get a reduction also. Your move action will be whatever that final number is. So if you just dude in light armor you'll have a 30ft movement. The green is that. The yellow means you are double moving, which then becomes a full round action, leaving you no standard action for attack.

Once you get high enough level to have multiple attacks per round you will make one attack with a standard action. You will get your multiple attacks if you are within 5 feet and can take a full action on attacking.

Beyond how hard it is at first, is it a worthwhile purchase? Been looking at it sometimes when on sale, and I was a big Pathfinder fan.

chaos_knight posted...

Beyond how hard it is at first, is it a worthwhile purchase? Been looking at it sometimes when on sale, and I was a big Pathfinder fan.

Abso-fucking-lutely.

chaos_knight posted...

Beyond how hard it is at first, is it a worthwhile purchase? Been looking at it sometimes when on sale, and I was a big Pathfinder fan.

Yes. It's a great game. I soars where Kingmaker sort of plodded. Each mythic path feels like it plays significantly different than the other making replays enjoyable.

chaos_knight posted...

Beyond how hard it is at first, is it a worthwhile purchase? Been looking at it sometimes when on sale, and I was a big Pathfinder fan.

Definitely. I'd recommend a couple of others before it, but it's definitely on the short list of really good CRPGs.

ellis123 posted...

No worries. It is a *very* complex game.

yeah, really seeing how simplified past WRPGs I played really were. I thought "I conquered Baldur's Gate, I conquered Divinity Original Sin, I can handle these D&D games now" but nope, Pathfinder smacked me in the face with its big-ass rulebook and humbled me. But I shall not be deterred.

Ivynn posted...

yeah, really seeing how simplified past WRPGs I played really were. I thought "I conquered Baldur's Gate, I conquered Divinity Original Sin, I can handle these D&D games now" but nope, Pathfinder smacked me in the face with its big-ass rulebook and humbled me. But I shall not be deterred.

Lol, it goes beyond just that. As someone who has played a lion's share of the major CRPGs that have ever come out WotR stands out as the most complex one *ever.* And it's not even close besides Kingmaker, which takes #2 for obvious reasons. About the only things that I can say were more daunting was stuff that are famous in part because they are so absurd (like Dwarf Fortress or Elona).

Is the game good overall? It has very mixed reviews on steam

refmon posted...

Is the game good overall? It has very mixed reviews on steam

Yes.

ellis123 posted...

As someone who has played a lion's share of the major CRPGs that have ever come out WotR stands out as the most complex one *ever.*

How dare you.

Do not speak to me or my 1 Vivisectionist/2 Scaled Fist/2 Paladin/2 Sorcerer/2 Dragon Disciple/11 Eldritch Knight son ever again.

DrizztLink posted...

How dare you.

Do not speak to me or my 1 Vivisectionist/2 Scaled First/2 Paladin/2 Sorcerer/2 Dragon Disciple/11 Eldritch Knight son ever again.

Lol.

Frankly the multiclassing and the like isn't even on my radar for what makes the game complex. :V

So I climbed the tower with half-orc knight's troop, clearing out cultists until I reached the no-eyed succubus trying to get the wardstone. Got into a fight with her, unleashed righteous flames of damnation from my fingertips and blasted her in her eyeless face.

Then the paladin woman died because she was in between us.

How did I not notice the game had friendly-fire until now. Uggggh can I turn it off? Never like that feature, always made playing spellcasters hard.

And I probably shouldn't be using fire on a demon anyway. I need new spells.