Board 8 > Nook's FF Topic [FF16 hype] [Series Ranking]

(+) Yeah! (+)

FF1 is solid as long as your playing one of the remakes. I assume the same can be said about 2 & 3 as well.

NeatoAnAccount posted...

Are we contending that FF1 is better than FF13? When's the last time y'all played FF1? Because that game's rough.

Im willing to argue that, yeah.

Honestly when it comes to any good RPG, Id argue exploration is just as important as combat and story. And FF1 is surprisingly good at that. Then it sprinkles in some adventure elements, like when Titan wont let you through the cave because hes hungry for jewels. Then when you find a find a ruby in some random cave, youre like oh shit, I bet I know who wants this. Or when you find a dwarf who will make you the ultimate weapon if you bring him adamant. And you go the whole game wondering where adamant could be, only to find it in outer space towards the end. Like finally you see why adamant is so rare, and also its just an exciting moment when you open a random chest and there it is.

FF13 has none of that. It doesnt respect its player enough to let them explore its world. Its practically a walking sim, but with a few extra bells and whistles.

FF1 can also be pretty challenging at times - like even something as simple as poison can be pretty deadly early on. Antidotes are expensive, and like half the enemies can poison you. Let alone the fact that you cant revive characters mid-battle, so if someone goes down, theyre down for the entire fight. It really forces the player to pay attention to every single battle, because its almost always life or death, kinda like old skool Dragon Quest.

Meanwhile heres FF13 over here with its auto-potion.

And the warriors of light might be silent protagonist/player avatars, but honestly Ill take that over the bad characterization in FF13. Its why everyone loves Samus, but hated her in Other M.

FF1 introduced so many iconic staples to the series, and FF13 is just a derivative iteration at best, and a huge step backwards at worst.

I recently played FF1 on NES and yes, id rather play that than FF13, straight up.

pjbasis posted...

2 and 3 as well! To your point I am always curious why 1 isn't thrown in with them unless they actually have nostalgia for it.

I would place 1 above both 2 and 3. I didn't play any of them until Final Fantasy Origins for the PSX and FF3DS, so I wouldn't say it's nostalgia.

I think it comes down to 1 being a simpler, quicker experience, which I think just works better for these games today. 2 has a decent story but the weird leveling and magic system. 3 I had fun with at first but I think it went on too long and the final dungeon in particular was just kinda bad.

The original NES versions are likely really dated at this point, but I never played those versions, so I can't speak to them.

NeatoAnAccount posted...

Are we contending that FF1 is better than FF13? When's the last time y'all played FF1? Because that game's rough.

Considering the pixel remasters just released on consoles, I'm sure several people here are playing FFI.

TomNook7 posted...

Im willing to argue that, yeah.

Honestly when it comes to any good RPG, Id argue exploration is just as important as combat and story. And FF1 is surprisingly good at that. Then it sprinkles in some adventure elements, like when Titan wont let you through the cave because hes hungry for jewels. Then when you find a find a ruby in some random cave, youre like oh shit, I bet I know who wants this. Or when you find a dwarf who will make you the ultimate weapon if you bring him adamant. And you go the whole game wondering where adamant could be, only to find it in outer space towards the end. Like finally you see why adamant is so rare, and also its just an exciting moment when you open a random chest and there it is.

FF13 has none of that. It doesnt respect its player enough to let them explore its world. Its practically a walking sim, but with a few extra bells and whistles.

FF1 can also be pretty challenging at times - like even something as simple as poison can be pretty deadly early on. Antidotes are expensive, and like half the enemies can poison you. Let alone the fact that you cant revive characters mid-battle, so if someone goes down, theyre down for the entire fight. It really forces the player to pay attention to every single battle, because its almost always life or death, kinda like old skool Dragon Quest.

Meanwhile heres FF13 over here with its auto-potion.

And the warriors of light might be silent protagonist/player avatars, but honestly Ill take that over the bad characterization in FF13. Its why everyone loves Samus, but hated her in Other M.

FF1 introduced so many iconic staples to the series, and FF13 is just a derivative iteration at best, and a huge step backwards at worst.

I recently played FF1 on NES and yes, id rather play that than FF13, straight up.

This is a good summary of why FF13 is flawed, yeah. It sacrifices everything at the altar of the story but then its story fucking sucks, and they knew it sucked before launching too because they took out the true main character (Serah) and were like 'this'll work anyways right???'. Just a baffling game top to bottom.

Also, ice cold take: FF3DS is the literal worst final fantasy of all time. Absolutely abominable gameplay, a total downgrade over a fucking NES game. If anyone here only played the DS version of FF3, do yourself a favor and play the pixel remaster instead. They managed to make the gameplay WORSE, by a LOT, somehow.

LightningStrikes posted...

If we treat FFXIV as a single player game the mechanics are the best in the series but it takes a while to reach that point. Trusts get good after a while but it is faster and more fun to do dungeons with a group.

When do trusts get good? They're bad in Shadowbringers and Endwalker.

Also pretty silly to say it has the best single player mechanics, but you do you...

It's difficult for me to compare XIVs gameplay with the rest of the series.

Obviously I enjoy playing it more than any other FF game by a country mile, but that's partially due to how much investment I have. I have a single character I've spent hundreds of hours getting to level 90 on 19 combat jobs, if course I'm gonna care.

People say XII feels like an offline MMO, and maybe that's true as far as the genre I'm general, but it definitely does not feel like and offline XIV.

And Trusts are better than they used to be, but they're still not good. Dungeons take twice as long to finish at best compared to an actual party. I understand that some people are looking forward to the full game having trusts but honestly it's a big mistake to do so, the game will never be as good with trusts as it is just playing with randos.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Also, ice cold take: FF3DS is the literal worst final fantasy of all time. Absolutely abominable gameplay, a total downgrade over a fucking NES game. If anyone here only played the DS version of FF3, do yourself a favor and play the pixel remaster instead. They managed to make the gameplay WORSE, by a LOT, somehow.

good to know. FF3DS was so bad i just straight gave up on finishing it, even with a guide

I always liked Trusts. Opinions gonna opine.

I really wonder what a truly offline FF14 would look like, since just porting over the gameplay completely would be a little odd but at the same time it would be a horrible loss to lose all of those boss fights as they currently exist. Maybe FF16 will give us an idea? Seems like the cadence and structure of those boss fights might be pulling pretty liberally from FF14, even if the combat itself isn't.

I don't expect FF14 to go anywhere for a very long time but I really hope they're already starting to think of how they want to eventually take it offline because man it would be awful for the best story in the franchise to become unplayable or otherwise become a shell of its former self.

It's not like XI is offline yet. I don't think it's very urgent.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Also, ice cold take: FF3DS is the literal worst final fantasy of all time. Absolutely abominable gameplay, a total downgrade over a fucking NES game. If anyone here only played the DS version of FF3, do yourself a favor and play the pixel remaster instead. They managed to make the gameplay WORSE, by a LOT, somehow.

FF3DS's not that bad lol. Look at it from another perspective: people hated it for being too faithful to a Famicom game from 1990. It was kind of like Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon. If nothing else, it had updated graphics, it was portable, and it was the first english release. It was fine for what it was.

TomNook7 posted...

FF3DS's not that bad lol. Look at it from another perspective: people hated it for being too faithful to a Famicom game from 1990. It was kind of like Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon. If nothing else, it had updated graphics, it was portable, and it was the first english release. It was fine for what it was.

It absolutely is that bad and it's not faithful to NES FF3 at all. I really cannot emphasize just how much worse the gameplay is. The numbers are completely, absolutely plum fucked, the damage you take is a horrendous RNG fuckfest with some attacks hitting for either trivial or oneshot damage just due to variance, the game lies to you about the damage you inflict (did you know Shurikens break damage limit? No? Fuck you for assuming the game wouldn't hide the actual damage you're inflicting!), the RNG turn order removes much of the strategic element the game might possibly have in favor of playing a slow, grindy, frankly shitty battle strat out, and significant griding is fairly enforced just to push through bosses like the kraken unless you research ways to cheese ahead of time online a lot. Every single issue FF3DS has is compressed into this video, and the writeup here is probably the saddest and most telling thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gdjbhjq7afI

'oh yeah it took more than a decade to finish this game in a low level run because it was so dumb and random'

It's a bit easier if you actually grind, obviously, but just looking at FF4DS as a comparison point shows why FF3DS is so bad. FF4DS is a ballbuster, but it's always fair. At no point is excess grinding necessary, and you get incredibly potent and reliable tools to handle the stuff the game throws at you. FF3DS not so much. I can write an actual thesis about all that's wrong with this game but honestly saying 'fuck Hiromichi Tanaka, may he never work in videogames again' covers it nicely.

Also, it must be emphasized even more that it IS NOT faithful to the NES version. Please do not assume you know anything about the original if youve only played the DS version.

Is Cloud of Darkness nearly as bad on the NES version?

That fight was absolutely the most bullshit part of FFIII DS.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Also, ice cold take: FF3DS is the literal worst final fantasy of all time. Absolutely abominable gameplay, a total downgrade over a fucking NES game. If anyone here only played the DS version of FF3, do yourself a favor and play the pixel remaster instead. They managed to make the gameplay WORSE, by a LOT, somehow.

The main thing I remember about FF3 3DS is that the final dungeon is super long and has zero save points, and that I quit after wiping and losing over an hour of progress

WhiteLens posted...

Is Cloud of Darkness nearly as bad on the NES version?

That fight was absolutely the most bullshit part of FFIII DS.

It's still the hardest boss in the game and you need dedicated healers (or stacking defensive spells, which is a thing you can do, to cut the damage down to size), but it's wayyyyyyyyyy more fair. There's no bullshit RNG to the amount of damage she does, either you can pass her heal check or can't. There's no tentacle addons shitting out bad breath or Lightning on you either, or applying protect or haste to the boss. It's just Particle Beam all day erryday and nothing more.

Oh yeah

I also forgot to note that she has a third of the HP she has in the DS version

I truly cannot emphasize enough just how bad a game FF3DS is

Lol aight, I trust you guys. The good news is none of us have to worry about that version anymore now that the Pixel Remaster is out. I do have FF3 on Famicom, but I haven't really sunk my teeth in, so FF3 isn't actually on this ranking.

#16. Final Fantasy II

It's just... not very fun to play. I first played it on Final Fantasy Origins on Ps1, and even back then I didn't like it. Tried to give it a second try as an adult, and it's just a mess. I appreciate that they were trying to reinvent the wheel, but I just don't think wheels should be square shaped. There's a reason no other RPG has ever attempted a progression system like this. It's just annoying. The characters and music are whatever. I might give it a second chance on the Pixel Remaster, but I also have way better RPGs on the backlog. At least it's better than XIII.

Fuck it, man. 3.5/10.

#16. FF2 - 3.5
#17. FF13 - 3.0

There's a reason no other RPG has ever attempted a progression system like this.

False! Not only have the SaGa games (which this game is effectively the precursor of -- it's Final Fantasy 2, but it's also SaGa 0 in every way that counts) done this before, but we have an even more obvious example of this kind of system being utilized in a massive franchise to this day: The Elder Scrolls! You even earn experience by getting hit for your defensive stats still! Not to say FF2 doesn't have its rough patches, because it does, but I think it's lowkey getting undersold for how important it was to gaming at large.

You really need to be deep in the retro JRPG hole to enjoy FF2 and FF3 in the modern era.

Lol I'm not sure SaGa is the best example you could've used there. Elder Scrolls though... sure.

I played FF2 as part of the GBA Dawn of Souls package and had a decent time. I appreciated that they were trying a bit harder on the story, and Firion and Minwu are cool designs for the era. But yeah it's obviously a mixed bag in terms of its systems.

Alright guys time to go ahead and play through ff5 on super famicom. Feel like ive learned enough hiragana and katakana to claw my way through it. I get a kick out of

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/9/3/AAK53VAAEZ9N.jpg

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/9/4/AAK53VAAEZ9O.jpg

lol jk guys even im not that crazy

Man, comparing them side by side tho, they really did a great job with this. The music and graphics are a huge improvement, and without compromising the games original feel. They even kept the cute little dragon roar.

FF6 pixel remaster though idk man.

https://youtu.be/8z3WXf3g-1o

It kinda looks like garbage. The snes version is some of the best sprite work of all time, so any attempt at outdoing perfection is gonna feel cheap. Curious to know what you guys think

I remember back in the 90s only the Japanese version of SMRPG was playable on emulators, so I played through it that way. I'd already played it multiple times on the SNES, so it was pretty doable.

TomNook7 posted...

Man, comparing them side by side tho, they really did a great job with this. The music and graphics are a huge improvement, and without compromising the games original feel. They even kept the cute little dragon roar.

FF6 pixel remaster though idk man.

https://youtu.be/8z3WXf3g-1o

It kinda looks like garbage. The snes version is some of the best sprite work of all time, so any attempt at outdoing perfection is gonna feel cheap. Curious to know what you guys think

A lot of it looks worse, but ALL of it sounds worse.

Nah the music is all goated imo

Monumental upgrade on what was already an excellent soundtrack. Uematsu and collaborators did a sick job with it. Honestly that's probably the one thing that justifies the Pixel Remasters' existence as a whole -- each and every soundtrack is pushed to the limit. It truly is 'how the music was always meant to be'.

PS: I will never stop giggling like a child over the fact a little girl played the heavy metal drums in the PRs and killed it. Yoyoka Soma is incredible.

saying PR looks like "garbage"is a bit harsh, but I definitely prefer the originals. music... yeah I'll take the original too. but it's basically the same

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Nah the music is all goated imo

Monumental upgrade on what was already an excellent soundtrack. Uematsu and collaborators did a sick job with it. Honestly that's probably the one thing that justifies the Pixel Remasters' existence as a whole -- each and every soundtrack is pushed to the limit. It truly is 'how the music was always meant to be'.

PS: I will never stop giggling like a child over the fact a little girl played the heavy metal drums in the PRs and killed it. Yoyoka Soma is incredible.

Exactly this. I'm gonna be honest: I think sound always will have held those older generation games back from being the best they could have been. Even the Chrono Trigger soundtrack is so much better as an orchestral arrangement. The restrictions definitely helped breed great creativity in composition, but the execution was always overly restrained by the hardware until we started hitting CD audio

If you want "garbage" look at the old mobile version of FFVI that got delisted around the time the pixel remasters were announced.

https://www.amazon.com/SQUARE-ENIX-CO-LTD-FANTASY/dp/B00QA2C5E6

But people still defended it because the sprites looked closer to the chibi artwork

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/finalfantasy/images/b/b1/Terra_SD_Art.png/revision/latest?cb=20220309052916

Re: FF2- I'll give it points for daring to actually kill a lot of the visible characters in the game, including a rotation of your party members.

I'll also give it points that it is... INTERESTING to modify your characters. Unfortunately, the grind for it is just too much, and some plot points are cheapened (I cared about losing Minwu and Leila, couldn't give a rat's ass about the other rotating fourth slot)

I just took the time to look up Yoyoka Soma. What an icon.

Also I've played Dirge of Cerberus for 6 hours and I'm over this shit

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/8/3/AAK53VAAEaDT.jpg

#15. Dirge of Cerberus: Final Fantasy VII

One of my friends swears up and down this actually good, and the metacritic user score was enticing, so maybe there was something there. But there's just too many control and level design issues on top of the mediocre gameplay... but I guess the FFVII coat of paint was enough for some people. 6/10 for the time I guess. There were way better shooters and RPG stories from that generation.

The ranking so far
#15. DoC FF7 - 6.0
#16. FF2 - 3.5
#17. FF13 - 3.0

DoC is straight up trash and wouldn't even warrant a ranking on my list

I played it and thought it was kind of fun. Story was nonsense, but I'd maybe play it one more time. Really it was about the same as Crisis Core for me on the fun factor.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/1/8/AAK53VAAEaG-.jpg

gender non-conforming icon

https://youtu.be/_KhK_k9lp_k

yo they went hard on this song

Harvest is so much better with that flute and lower violin instead of a really shrill string/horn/blackboard with nails.

Got Faris as my blue mage, and learned ponds chorus, and turned all shivas minions into frogs and practically made the fight trivial.

The amount of freedom and customization in ff5 is crazy. ff4 might have had the story, but ff5 had the gameplay

And FF6 had the fusion. The SNES trilogy and the PSX trilogy were truly just built different

They really were.

#14. Final Fantasy XV

FF15 is in this weird space where it's just very obviously deeply flawed, but it's not because of a lack of effort. They clearly loved what they were making, and it works on a lot of levels. It's definitely bigger than the sum of it's parts.

The combat is nonsense, the plot is nonexistent, half the game is missing, but hey... you can go camping with the boys. And I think that's really where the game shines. If you don't rush the main story, and take the time to enjoy the little things in the world, you get a genuine sense of comradery among these guys. They take selfies together, they tease each other, they argue, they bicker. You can find a million things to hate about this game, but the characters ain't gonna be one of em.

8/10. What other game can you eat cup ramen and listen to Florence?

The ranking so far
#14. FF15 - 8.0
#15. DoC FF7 - 6.0
#16. FF2 - 3.5
#17. FF13 - 3.0

XV is nowhere near the worst game I've played, but it's definitely the game I hate the most.

Ehhh, the characters kind of suck too. I agree that the road trip vibe is real done, but they're all cliches. Maybe the DLC fleshes them out but that begs the question of why they relegate the character development to behind a paywall. The best parts of this game are driving around listening to music from other videogames and the memes. That's not a good sign.

Yeah i hear the royal edition fixes a lot. I played the original release, so id be curious to try that one day. Maybe for this topic.

btw, are there any ff14 fans in here? Should i rank the expansions individually, or wait till i finish endwalker first and then rank ff14 as a whole?

I consider every expansion of XIV to be it's own game, but it's a matter of preference.

Each expansion is certainly able to be rated on an individual basis, but rating it as a whole package without Endwalker is going to be like rating any other game in the series without having played the final act. Enough time to form an opinion, sure, but missing the pay off.

What Luis said. You can rate every expac up to Stormblood more or less independently, but Shadowbringers starts pulling the threads together and Endwalker is the payoff for ten years of content.

Ranking them independently and together both make sense. Up to you how you wanna do it.

Also FFXV is pretty close to the worst game I've played, and probably the one I have the most vitriol towards. Remarkable things about it include:

-The battle system is somehow much worse than KH's despite having over a decade of opportunity to refine it and make it a better action RPG
-The world is ugly and boring despite incredible visual fidelity
-The story and main four characters are all terrible (though I didn't play Royal/DLC)

Some things about it are kinda fun, but for me it's probably the most disappointing game of all time, and by far the worst FF (I never played 2/3).