Board 8 > Star Trek Mafia - Topic 8: Attention Boardaytan Workers!

(+) Yeah! (+)

To start is my claims list accurate?

Fwiw, if we're doing set-up meta...

A Town JC exists to see Doc, Cop, Drunk, Vig
And from Scum, a NK or Redirector-type

Vig shoots once, so it's pretty well balanced I would say (unless there's a ninja on Scum which makes it very very unbalanced)

A Scum JC exists to see Doc, Cop, Drunk, Vig
3+1 roles in a smaller game to find.

There's a possibility of another Scum power (but if we believe unblockable and redirect, then the unblockable is mayyyybe a Jack. I still think 4 scum is unlikely, but it's a possibility too).

I guess I could see either. JC being a weaker Town role in a smaller game that can... What's the word... Blow up in your face? I can't think of a very easy word atm.

Anyway, him being a Town role that can blow up in face makes sense as well, given size.

All this to say basically no conclusion without further information.

Wall:
if you believe Ctes is Scum, then where does Ulti fit into that estimation for you?

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

To start is my claims list accurate?

Yes

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Scum neighborizer isn't out of the realm of possibilities. And choosing someone who seems the most town is a good play for a scum neighborizer.

Or, given we have nothing resembling a role cop to confirm the claim, we're taking Dumey's word for it and they're scum together, as I concur that bussing early for townclear is absolutely in Lea's wheelhouse.

And yes, I claimed vanilla. At the top of a page, even.

Lea was on Death too at points. Bussing Chris when a tender Death filet was on the table is not sensible.

In fact, if they were both Scum, Dumey sticks to the vanilla claim I said he was, since he'd have a strong-voiced Town clearing him based on that.

And if Dumey was Scum, he's stuck because Lea already knows he's Neighborizer.

The one thing we can surmise for sure is that they're not both Scum.

oh hi friends. i'm here if anyone has any direct questions for me.

I like what Sultan has been contributing in the last couple of pages. Makes me feel better about him being town from a play perspective rather than just association with Chris. I guess it's always possible that setup discussion is easy to talk about as either alignment, but I feel fairly comfortable shelving Sultan away for a rainy day.

I've read through the arguments on Ctes and I find that I still think he's town, from a setup perspective.

So that means my take on the game right now hasn't changed much, in that I think BCT/Isquen/Wallz is the most likely remaining scum, though JC has made his way back onto the PoE list, so I could exchange JC for any of those I think.

Dumey, what did Lea tell you about me in your Neighbor chat?

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Lea was on Death too at points. Bussing Chris when a tender Death filet was on the table is not sensible.

In fact, if they were both Scum, Dumey sticks to the vanilla claim I said he was, since he'd have a strong-voiced Town clearing him based on that.

And if Dumey was Scum, he's stuck because Lea already knows he's Neighborizer.

The one thing we can surmise for sure is that they're not both Scum.

I'm not so certain about her. Scumchris teams have done weirder.

Just wondering though from the other viewpoint, anyone else find neighborizer ever town-friendly here? Could be she didn't want to confirm since she had her own suspicions. Bussing comes off the table then, and Occam's razor dictates he was doing a "Mason buddies teehee" play.

Bah, the timing of today sucks, work consumes my liiiiife.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Fwiw, if we're doing set-up meta...

A Town JC exists to see Doc, Cop, Drunk, Vig
And from Scum, a NK or Redirector-type

Vig shoots once, so it's pretty well balanced I would say (unless there's a ninja on Scum which makes it very very unbalanced)

A Scum JC exists to see Doc, Cop, Drunk, Vig
3+1 roles in a smaller game to find.

There's a possibility of another Scum power (but if we believe unblockable and redirect, then the unblockable is mayyyybe a Jack. I still think 4 scum is unlikely, but it's a possibility too).

I guess I could see either. JC being a weaker Town role in a smaller game that can... What's the word... Blow up in your face? I can't think of a very easy word atm.

Anyway, him being a Town role that can blow up in face makes sense as well, given size.

All this to say basically no conclusion without further information.

Wall:
if you believe Ctes is Scum, then where does Ulti fit into that estimation for you?

I had my early suspicions towards ulti but his uncountered doctor claim makes him the most confirmed town of any living player imo. I will be up front with you and say Im not sure what you think ctes being scum would indicate concerning ulti.

as for this flavor meta I feel really strongly one of sultan and jc has to be scum due to the way the claimed roles play off each other. If jc is scum lazy tracker, Sultan exists as a decoy. By jc not being able to see where sultan visited, it leaves some mystery there and it doesnt matter who sultan is visiting because its random anyway.

If sultan is scum, I guess hed be lying about being drunk. Because being scum who moves every night but has no control over where hes going and just bumps into people is nerfed af lol

Bless you?

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Dumey, what did Lea tell you about me in your Neighbor chat?

Honestly we've been back and forth about you. Initial reaction at the start of N1 she was suspicious of you and asked me my opinion of you specifically. But the following day after rereading how the lynch went down, she expressed she was more comfortable with how you voted for Chris.

After the Sheep flip, Lea said she had to reevaluate the whole game (including putting me back in her PoE, which I thought was a very townie thing to admit to me), and did note that you're not completely off the table, but I will leave that to her to expand on if she wants. I don't think you were ever mentioned as a priority to push, just that you're not confirmed town and you've made some questionable defenses.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

also that

EDumey posted...

Honestly we've been back and forth about you. Initial reaction at the start of N1 she was suspicious of you and asked me my opinion of you specifically. But the following day after rereading how the lynch went down, she expressed she was more comfortable with how you voted for Chris.

After the Sheep flip, Lea said she had to reevaluate the whole game (including putting me back in her PoE, which I thought was a very townie thing to admit to me), and did note that you're not completely off the table, but I will leave that to her to expand on if she wants. I don't think you were ever mentioned as a priority to push, just that you're not confirmed town and you've made some questionable defenses.

Well this is a lie.

You're saying Lea said nothing about how handsome and good at Mario I am?

Isquen posted...

Scumchris teams have done weirder.

Really? Tell me some of those things.

Handsome was definitely not mentioned, but sure, I guessed she talked you up a little. :)

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Really? Tell me some of those things.

Hearsay. You know, some of those things. Or at least I'm thinking so from when he Bulbasaured above us all, but that was when he was an indy. Or when he was Zenos, I think, but that was also when he was an Indy.

...Shit, I haven't been in a game with scumchris myself ever before this one, have I?

Isquen posted...

Hearsay. You know, some of those things. Or at least I'm thinking so from when he Bulbasaured above us all, but that was when he was an indy. Or when he was Zenos, I think, but that was also when he was an Indy.

...Shit, I haven't been in a game with scumchris myself ever before this one, have I?

Yes and saying Scumchris teams have done weirder is not a sensible perspective for you to have.

I convinced myself earlier ctes and jc were linked. But Ill admit a fake town vig claim is ballsy. Yet I cant escape feeling like there were red flags with the ctes and jc pair.

Does anyone else think town drunk and town lazy tracker make sense as opposing alignments? I think jc being scum lazy tracker makes a ton of sense. Chris did say it would take a lot for him to vote jc before the votes started piling on. And in this scenario jc just lies and says he got redirected to ulti.

Im open to re-reading and maybe jc is scum but ctes is town. But I really dont think theyre both town, like at all. Jcs list where he said he was pleased mzero engaged in a proper discussion while around still lingers in my mind as well

wallmasterz posted...

I convinced myself earlier ctes and jc were linked. But Ill admit a fake town vig claim is ballsy. Yet I cant escape feeling like there were red flags with the ctes and jc pair.

Does anyone else think town drunk and town lazy tracker make sense as opposing alignments? I think jc being scum lazy tracker makes a ton of sense. Chris did say it would take a lot for him to vote jc before the votes started piling on. And in this scenario jc just lies and says he got redirected to ulti.

Lying about redirection is am interesting theory. It throws us off him a bit and has us on a wild goose chase for something that might not even exist.

wallmasterz posted...

I convinced myself earlier ctes and jc were linked. But Ill admit a fake town vig claim is ballsy. Yet I cant escape feeling like there were red flags with the ctes and jc pair.

Does anyone else think town drunk and town lazy tracker make sense as opposing alignments? I think jc being scum lazy tracker makes a ton of sense. Chris did say it would take a lot for him to vote jc before the votes started piling on. And in this scenario jc just lies and says he got redirected to ulti.

Yes, I stated as much before, but I think the fact that it is a small game with very few, but strong power roles, makes Scum Motion Detector make sense. Basically any positive movement they hit outside of Sultan's Drunk ass is good info for them. In a larger game with more random utility roles, Motion Detector might seem too weak.

Walls pulling out things I was thinking about is kind of funny. I was going to mention maybe it's as simple as JC isquen and mention where he said he liked what he saw from Mzero with little to go on.

But I liked the few Mzero posts at that point I thought it looked a bit like town Mzero but that's before he went completely MIA and got replaced. I have been having a hard to reading what I've seen from isquen.

For JC: Order of PoE is the following, Townest to Scummest:

Lea
Sultan
Ulti
BCT
Dumey
Ctes
JC
Wall
Isquen

I think Isquen is a sure shot, then I think we're dealing with something a little more convoluted. I'm stuck on this Ulti vs JC actions thing, and thinking there's only two Scum left really narrows down who else could be party to helping create such a scenario.

I don't think JC has been Scummy. I just think the claim is bad and it lines up poorly with what Ulti said, and Ulti has more claim to Town than JC.

I don't like putting Wall in my poe because every time he engages and posts it's like, so good. It's too well-put for him to be being coached, which then means it's mostly genuine. There's reasons to think he's Town.

Ctes is big brained plays, otherwise, Wall pointed out a dearth of Ctes activity early on.

Dumey's claim doesn't fit in with the Ulti/JC claims if they're both Town. And I still like his reaction to Sheep early on. He's always been head-on-straight.

BCT is BCT. There are times where I think "yeah, he's driving in this point too hard" for it to be genuine, then I remind myself that we've seen this before.

Ulti is blustering as usual. But without him, Chris isn't lynched D1.

Sultan has been engaged enough for me to believe he's his usual Town self and also was Chris's release valve.

Lea is Town.

That's me thoughts.

town power: bulletproof doctor, miller cop, vig/neighborizer, drunk

scum power: double hammerer, lazy tracker, vig/neighborizer, ???

?

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Lying about redirection is am interesting theory. It throws us off him a bit and has us on a wild goose chase for something that might not even exist.

It also explains how Crescent died if Ulti was saving her.

wallmasterz posted...

I convinced myself earlier ctes and jc were linked. But Ill admit a fake town vig claim is ballsy. Yet I cant escape feeling like there were red flags with the ctes and jc pair.

Does anyone else think town drunk and town lazy tracker make sense as opposing alignments? I think jc being scum lazy tracker makes a ton of sense. Chris did say it would take a lot for him to vote jc before the votes started piling on. And in this scenario jc just lies and says he got redirected to ulti.

Town Drunk Town Weak Tracker is possible.
Town Drunk Scum Weak Tracker is possible.
Scum Drunk Town Weak Tracker is very unlikely.
Sultan being lying Scum and Town Weak Tracker is possible.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Yes and saying Scumchris teams have done weirder is not a sensible perspective for you to have.

I'll concede to that and chalk it up to being tired. Screw DST and morning meetings.

JC came in saying he was redirected before anyone had said anything and most people had not yet claimed at the time.

Simple answer here is that he's truthful about being redirected.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Dumey's claim doesn't fit in with the Ulti/JC claims if they're both Town.

How so?

ctesjbuvf posted...

JC came in saying he was redirected before anyone had said anything and most people had not yet claimed at the time.

Simple answer here is that he's truthful about being redirected.

That's a fair point.

ctesjbuvf posted...

How so?

I mean as Scum.

Scum having:
Hammer/Doublevoter
Unblockable Kill
Redirector

no room for Neighborizer unless 4 which is still beyond the pale of acceptable balance.

Ah that makes more sense.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Good unvote there Lea, I was worried

ctesjbuvf posted...

JC came in saying he was redirected before anyone had said anything and most people had not yet claimed at the time.

Simple answer here is that he's truthful about being redirected.

Counter-point: JC was very aware that he HAD to scan the only claimed Vanilla or else face town's wrath. If BCT is town and scum JC didn't want to confirm that he didn't move, then JC would have scum equity in claiming the redirection right off the bat rather than wait for people to ask questions.

I don't see much scum equity in claiming the redirect if both JC and BCT are scum together. So I suppose if I were to put JC back into my potential scum teams, he would be replacing BCT in that lineup.

Taking a prework nap, but might as well give this thought to paper so I dont get hounded for it later when I can't.

Isquen
Townish
Han
JC
---
Sultan
Lea
ctes
---
BCT
Ulti
Dumey
wallmasterZ
Scummish

Though I'm againt the easiest most logical lynch Isquen is probably the right choice huh?

##Unvote
##Vote: Isquen

ok, you put ulti back in your PoE give me a break lol.

Isquen posted...

BCT
Ulti
Dumey
wallmasterZ
Scummish

Exaplin this one Ulti? I think you may have but town having no protection seems unlikely. Unless you're saying the redirection is Towns protection

Ok so lets say jc is telling the truth about being redirected. Ctes is telling the truth about being town vig.

town: bp doc, cop, vig, lazy tracker (sultan claimed drunk, Dumey claimed neighborizer)
scum: double hammerer, then weve seen an unblockable kill and a redirect already. Assuming redirect is a full time role wtf

The claimed redirection. For starters, I think the redirection is more like misdirection, but I dont want to say why.

Isquen I dont mean this rudely but it feels like youre begging to be lynched lol

##unvote: Sultan

honestly I was looking for a pretty simple answer, I just wanted to see if youd give it. not confident enough for you to be my top lynch rn.

wallmasterz posted...

Im open to re-reading and maybe jc is scum but ctes is town. But I really dont think theyre both town, like at all. Jcs list where he said he was pleased mzero engaged in a proper discussion while around still lingers in my mind as well

I went over this with Han already. For me to be scum requires the N1 kill target to not be Crescent. That means Ulti is BP and was tested (which we all agree didnt happen), ctes is scum who shot death, or scum and ctes overlapped on Death (unlikely). Ctes being scum who shot death is the only plausible scenario there. So if Im scum, Ctes is scum.

So two questions:
1 - If Ctes and I are scum, does the game setup make sense to you?
2 - How do you specifically explain my N1 actions if Im scum otherwise?

Ninjad hard by phone posting on walls thoughts on the setup whoops

I am still skeptical of at least one of ctes/jc but we might as well do the obvious and buy a few more days. I will probably read everything again not to mention I think I forgot to respond to a question from either ctes or Dumey

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Since I came back here, Han was lynched as doctor in Nick 90s, Isquen was lynched as doctor in Baseball Musical, SBell was lynched as doctor in YGO and red was lynched as bodyguard in Xenoblade. That's a lot lol.

I don't think it's a good case no.

But is it scum or bad town?

It's a good point.