Board 8 > Star Trek Mafia - Topic 8: Attention Boardaytan Workers!

(+) Yeah! (+)

The Crew:
1- BlueCrystalTear
2- ctes
3- EDumey
4- Han
5- JC
6- Lea
7- MZero
8- Sultan
9- UltimaterializerX
10- wallmasterz

Tribbles:
LD1 - SirChris - Harry Mudd, Scum Hammerer/Double Voter
KN1 - Death - Ensign Harry Kim, Town Vanilla
LD2 - Sheep - Kasidy Yates, Town Vanilla
KN2 - Crescent - Elim Garak, Town Miller Guilty Cop

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch.
Day ends Monday, March 13th at 8pm, or approximately 27 hours.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

I mean, I think Sultan is Town anyway. He could fake believing a Cop non-claim, but really, it's totally within Town Sultan's playbook to miss things when he has a bunch of posts to keep up with.

Question - do you believe that there IS a Town Bus Driver?

It's not just fake believing a cop scan, it was doing so after it had already been revealed fake.

It seems most likely based on the targets.

So why do you think Sultan hasn't claimed yet?

Since he's the Town Bus Driver, in your estimation

HanOfTheNekos posted...

And can I ask why? Even if you've already stated it?

I think already yesterday it was pretty difficult for any of them to be lying. There's scum somewhere else just floating by at the moment.

It's easy for JC to be lying if Scum has a way to know Crescent has a power (coincidentally, her own role flip gives a way for that to be known, though I don't believe she'd have stayed quiet about scanning Scum).

It's easy for Ulti to lie if, as you've said, there is a Town BD. But him claiming like that and being uncountered is less likely, sure.

I'm mostly just stuck on thinking that an unblockable and a redirect are unlikely together. It's possible, sure.

But Ctes, thought exercise - why would Scum redirect JC to Ulti?

Doesn't have to be Sultan.

I mean, I don't believe scum redirected JC to Ulti.

Your argument is thus:

Town has two OP/borderline OP Protection roles.

Scum has an unblockable that replaces a NK and no RB equivalent.

Ctes, my dude, that is unlikely as fuck.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

But Ctes, thought exercise - why would Scum redirect JC to Ulti?

Do you think this is unlikely enough that it's worth looking at Ulti/JC?

Hey Lea what's your poe at this point?

ctesjbuvf posted...

Do you think this is unlikely enough that it's worth looking at Ulti/JC?

That specifically? No.

I'm not suggesting that we lynch one of the two today. I'm not suggesting it is a thing that can be resolved.

But if we have two datapoints that are somewhat at odds with each other, than I can't begin to fathom why people are up in arms over thinking about it.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

It's easy for JC to be lying if Scum has a way to know Crescent has a power (coincidentally, her own role flip gives a way for that to be known, though I don't believe she'd have stayed quiet about scanning Scum).

It's easy for Ulti to lie if, as you've said, there is a Town BD. But him claiming like that and being uncountered is less likely, sure.

I'm mostly just stuck on thinking that an unblockable and a redirect are unlikely together. It's possible, sure.

But Ctes, thought exercise - why would Scum redirect JC to Ulti?

Well this is why I was asking about BCT earlier - I think Ulti's a fairly straightforward redirection because they know I won't get any information from it. That's why I was wondering about the motivation to redirect my scan - because I think it's more than likely that scum assumed I would scan the singular claimed vanilla.

I just don't know how far that gets us because we've already discussed our inability to determine BCT's alignment from it.

You understand that anybody who has claimed vanilla since would be unable to do so if they're Scum and you caught them moving? I'm just saying - I don't think it's as focused BCT as you think.

And if they're redirecting you, why not just redirect you at Crescent. It is 100% LESS info than Town had, if you're being truthful.

You already claimed Crescent moved. Crescent agreed. Crescent also apparently was dying no matter what.

Ulti just has a claim - seeing him move is more info for Town than we have otherwise.

Here's my current read of the game.

Town
Me - obv
Ulti - so far no reason to disbelieve
ctes - see above
Dumey - Lea has confirmed that he is in fact Neighborizer. Given the current game state, especially if we're thinking there's a chance there's a 3-person scumteam, I doubt the scumteam would have a Neighborizer somehow lumped in with a redirection and unblockable kill.
BCT - I am somewhat inclined to give BCT the benefit of the doubt here. I don't think his reaction to me scanning him makes sense if he's scum, given that he was under the impression Dumey had claimed vanilla.
Lea - The least confident of my town reads here. Lea's been neighborized and I think has been playing a fairly town game but she's a good player and I think has the skill to be pulling a fast one on us.

Honestly, still evaluating
Han - I feel a bit better about Han after more discussion today, it seems like he's trying to figure out the game in earnest more but I have Han PTSD from last game still, and he is more than a good enough player to be BSing this despite his insistence that he wouldn't suffer through it. He quite literally faked an argument against me last game, albeit as town - and it got fairly heated.
Isquen - I really just need to see more from Isquen - he's in everyone's PoE but he hasn't really done much?
Wallz - Wallz hasn't been offering nearly as much content, though he has given reasons for being less busy iirc. His comment about scum not shooting Ulti, without really getting at the fact that it was suggesting Ulti had to be lying, was kind of strange to me.

Want to Claim
Sultan - if scum doesn't have a bus driver, they know it's sultan or are assuming it's sultan, but I honestly don't think we have a town redirection role here

Sultan - if scum doesn't have a bus driver/redirector*, they know it's sultan or are assuming it's sultan, but I honestly don't think we have a town redirection role here

adjusted for clarity

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Ulti just has a claim - seeing him move is more info for Town than we have otherwise.

Yes and no - is it information we didn't have before? Yes

Is it information that wouldn't be assumed if Ulti remains the only uncountered protection, boosting his likelihood of telling the truth? Not really.

Chaeix posted...

He quite literally faked an argument against me last game, albeit as town

You realize this isn't true, right?

Sorry I have been kind of busy today.

Anyways I've been debating on claiming all day and since yesterday beacuse I 100% beleive JC is what he says he is beacuse of my role I've been driving myself a bit crazy if it is scum or town.

I am Morn Town Drunk.

I am basically a role that is ment to throw off JC more or less.

Each night i bump into someone and talk their ear off thought idk who. I bump into though.

Jc thats a hell of a list my friend

I like how Lea, the person who was instrumental in lynching Chris is your least confident town read and Dumey is higher based on Lea confirming the neighborizing occurred lol if Dumey and Lea are both scum then they could lie about neighborizer entirely

I also believe its factually wrong to say ulti has to be lying if scum didnt shoot him? I think Han, ctes or both alluded to that in their responses to my comment

soundtrack to day 3

https://youtu.be/iJYvCHm3Ov4

wallmasterz posted...

I like how Lea, the person who was instrumental in lynching Chris is your least confident town read and Dumey is higher based on Lea confirming the neighborizing occurred lol if Dumey and Lea are both scum then they could lie about neighborizer entirely

I also believe its factually wrong to say ulti has to be lying if scum didnt shoot him? I think Han, ctes or both alluded to that in their responses to my comment

Dumey is higher because Neighborizer doesn't fit into what I am imagining the scum roles could possibly be. And they could both be scum, but it's an option that I don't think needs to be explored with a vote just yet.

I didn't go back to look at your comment specifically when I made the list. What I was getting at specifically, and what I was referring to but misremembered a bit, was that you thought it wasn't likely that scum had an unblockable kill. That means Ulti has to be lying because if scum doesn't have an unblockable kill, then you're suggesting that he didn't save Crescent.

Drunk is as anti-Town Motion Detector as it is anti-Scum Motion Detector.

UltimaterializerX posted...

WTF does drunk even do?

Like I said I basically each night I randomly run into someone. It's not a role blocker or anything. Just a motion

HanOfTheNekos posted...

You realize this isn't true, right?

you flavor scanned me, then came after me, at which point i claimed and it matched the scan, and we had a pretty big argument

if i am mischaracterizing, i require correction

UltimaterializerX posted...

WTF does drunk even do?

also kind of wondering this

whoops ninja'd while typing

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Like I said I basically each night I randomly run into someone. It's not a role blocker or anything. Just a motion

Question. Can you bump into Vanillas who stay home the entire night?

BlueCrystalTear posted...

Question. Can you bump into Vanillas who stay home the entire night?

it doesn't matter who he bumps into, what matters is that he moves

Chaeix posted...

it doesn't matter who he bumps into, what matters is that he moves

Exactly.
This is why I'm thrown what to think of you Exactly.
Play wise and my isp yesterday I was like yeah he's scum but I could also being away to kinda mess with a town tracker too idk maybe im over thinking this. I hate but love gimmicky roles

Chaeix posted...

it doesn't matter who he bumps into, what matters is that he moves

My curiosity is whether his role makes a vanilla move or have a visitor.

Chaeix posted...

you flavor scanned me, then came after me, at which point i claimed and it matched the scan, and we had a pretty big argument

if i am mischaracterizing, i require correction

Once you claimed flavor, I found an excuse to hop off.

The problem was that my flavor scan of you was vague. You could have been Watt, Big Lantern Ghost, or Big Lantern Ghost's Lantern.

Drunk is a role that randomly visits someone each night.

Town Drunk is just to confuse trackers/watchers. So like Han was saying, imagine that this setup is a game with mostly Vanillas, and Scum has a Motion Detector to try and find power. They only have to find doctor and cop, and everyone else is essentially a vanilla (I had to choose before the end of day, so I'm not sure if I would have showed up as moving during the night?). So Drunk is there as a red herring for scum to find.

It's a weird setup, but it was specifically supposed to be a small game, right? So the low amount, but strong power kind of makes sense. Then scum has an unblockable kill for when they do find the power. I still don't quite understand why scum would choose to shoot Crescent over Ulti if they had an unblockable, unless they really just don't believe Ulti is BP.

Though what is the point of Crescent being a Miller Cop?

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Drunk is a role that randomly visits someone each night.

Okay, gotcha.

So how would this throw JC off unless JC tracked Sultan specifically?

BlueCrystalTear posted...

Okay, gotcha.

So how would this throw JC off unless JC tracked Sultan specifically?

Only if he tracked Sultan specifically.

EDumey posted...

Though what is the point of Crescent being a Miller Cop?

Possibly claim logistics. She could claim Miller to dissuade scum.

There could also be another scanner of some kind who isn't claiming. I doubt it, but it's possible.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Only if he tracked Sultan specifically.

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say. Why is Sultan saying he exists to throw JC off? Something about the way he's wording it bugs me.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

Possibly claim logistics. She could claim Miller to dissuade scum.

There could also be another scanner of some kind who isn't claiming. I doubt it, but it's possible.

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say. Why is Sultan saying he exists to throw JC off? Something about the way he's wording it bugs me.

Think about it BCT. You're not this dense

BlueCrystalTear posted...

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say. Why is Sultan saying he exists to throw JC off? Something about the way he's wording it bugs me.

he is basically the miller for my role

think of it that way

I don't have a specific reason to disbelieve Sultan yet but I have to say it would make an excellent fakeclaim for scum with an action.

ctes, can you walk us through your reasoning for how youve voted so far?

d1, you voted for sultan. You were the only vote on sultan at day end. Chris tried to force sultan so hard it was a literal red flag for many people. Now, sultan is on your relatively short confirmed town list (presumably because Chris flipped scum). Whyd you vote for sultan d1?

n1, you shot town death. If you lacked the conviction to vote death d1 when he was a viable Lynch candidate why would you

Ah sorry fat fingered

if you lacked the conviction to vote for death when he was a viable lynch candidate why would you kill him n1?

then d2 why did you vote for no one?

I apologize for my misuse of the word literal. Its been a day.

Trying to figure out if it's to throw off scum power finder or a miller esk role for town Tracker.

Throughts?

Could be either.

Okay so look at JCs play specifically my iso yesterday I still like.

BCT I think still looks bad and had a scum slip i can't look past.

JC/BCT link any where I wonder

UltimaterializerX posted...

##Unvote
##Vote: Isquen

I say we just kill the AFK player slot instead of hanging ourselves really.

Why? This over BCT or JC? Just curious

UltimaterializerX posted...

I dont think Justin or Andy are scum. Easy enough.

Like, I know my role. For Justin to claim the way he did as scum would be suicide. There is zero scum equity in that play whatsoever.

Hmm okay it's plausible scum is in the inactive if you had to pick a teammate for Isquen who would it be.

Hiding in the inactive just seems to easy lol

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Think about it BCT. You're not this dense

I don't like the name-calling. I am merely trying to figure out how your role fits into the grander scheme of things so I can properly theorize.

There are three setups I can see here:

1. Sultan is scum and is creating a fake role to set up JC as a potential scum tracker
2. Sultan is town with a role designed to trick a town tracker
3. Sultan is town and his role is designed to fool scum

Yes, I know this is obvious, but I really can't tell which is the most likely, so I think theorizing about it at this point isn't going to get us anywhere.

If there are 2 scum left, there's no way one of them is a simple tracker. There's gotta be more to the power than that, like some tracker/watcher combination or additional godfather power. If there are 3 scum left, a simple prosty or vanilla cop would suffice. If it's 4 total scum, we probably got the strongest role out of the way first, which is nice.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

BCT I think still looks bad and had a scum slip i can't look past.

How can one have a "scum slip" when one is town? Explain.