Board 8 > Star Trek Mafia - Topic 8: Attention Boardaytan Workers!

(+) Yeah! (+)

i think that's kind of han's point as why it makes less sense now

ulti seems to be bp based off of the night action logic
ulti is also an uncountered doctor

so we are grappling with the possibility of overwhelming evidence of a role that doesn't make sense to exist in a balanced setup

I will finish re-reading with as open a mind as possible but as things stand right now I find Han with the, if youre scum, extremely unenviable position of being squarely in the sights of the most confirmed town person in the game.

Chaeix posted...

I will point out that BCT's reaction is the strangest thing here because I don't think it was faked? He was genuinely confused about why he was targetted - and if he was scum, wouldn't he know why I was targeting him? Either that or BCT's gotten much better at acting.

At the very least BCT can't be the redirector himself. If he was trying to save himself from a scan, there is literally no utility in redirecting me instead of just, like, not moving.

Only thing I could think of is a varient of reflecting people off of him. To someone else

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Only thing I could think of is a varient of reflecting people off of him. To someone else

if i was redirected TO ulti, would i then be redirected away FROM ulti if that were the case?

cause i definitely finished n2 or whatever night it was with a scan on ulti.

Chaeix posted...

i think that's kind of han's point as why it makes less sense now

ulti seems to be bp based off of the night action logic
ulti is also an uncountered doctor

so we are grappling with the possibility of overwhelming evidence of a role that doesn't make sense to exist in a balanced setup

Look at most of other town power claims: drunk, lazy tracker, cop (I believe miller?), neighborizer. Only vig is in a league of its own. Ill consider any possibility but believing this game has an op doctor and somewhat nerfed rest of town feels more believable than there being no doctor in this game, or ulti being doctor but not bp and yet somehow still alive after three nights when he claimed doctor uncountered on d1.

I don't understand these night actions even a little bit.

UltimaterializerX posted...

And ctes mentioned bus driver day two before I claimed anything

It was not me who brought it up. I was working with the knowledge of how Death died and others suggested bus drive to which I reminded them it's not the only option.

It's pretty hard to figure out a scum team that just shoots at the most obvious target every day and somehow unblockable the second night. I have the whole time been working under the idea that BP+Doctor is a bs role yet Ulti keeps being alive.

Does the scum team fear redirection on n3 to the point of not shooting at all? That's a stretch right.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Yeah but you knew you shot him. That isnt indicative of alignment. Youre also more than smart enough to make that shot as scum.

Sure but you brought it up as if I slipped, so I just pointed out it was not me who said it.

ctesjbuvf posted...

It's pretty hard to figure out a scum team that just shoots at the most obvious target every day and somehow unblockable the second night. I have the whole time been working under the idea that BP+Doctor is a bs role yet Ulti keeps being alive.

Does the scum team fear redirection on n3 to the point of not shooting at all? That's a stretch right.

Have you accepted bp doctor factually being a thing at this point? If you havent totally accepted it Id like to hear your explanation for how its possible.

Sultan, Dumey, can you please remind us of your full role title?

UltimaterializerX posted...

Huh. I think you figured it out.

##Unvote
##Vote: ctes

Every other power role, EVERY SINGLE ONE, is a variant.

Vig being a normal thing stands out like a tumor, and I think Wall just stumbled onto why. ctes as scum fakeclaimed it before knowing all of towns roles are variants.

Its also a literal perfect fake claim, because no one would have questioned shooting Death there. Well done, ctes.

Good stuff ulti. I think we should wait and hear from sultan and Dumey before we continue barking up this tree, just to get it on the record. Both already claimed so I cant imagine itll be an issue.

Another thing. The existence of a scum Jack makes some sense. N1 either 1) ctes is scum and death was the regular scum target or 2) they targeted both crescent and death. Ulti saved crescent and the kill on death was some kind of EK.

N2, jc got redirected from bct to ulti. I believe scum redirect might be a one time thing as well, which is why jc didnt get redirected last night when he scanned me. The one-time redirect probably allows the user to choose someone whose actions they want to redirect, and they chose the known tracker (pretty sure jc claimed d2). Someone, I dont remember who, proposed scum targeted bct to have any actions directed at bct redirected. To be clear I dont think that person is necessarily scum, but I do think they were mistaken.

wallmasterz posted...

Have you accepted bp doctor factually being a thing at this point? If you havent totally accepted it Id like to hear your explanation for how its possible.

I have not. For as much as Ulti has mentioned banned roles, this one would be extremely strong. For it to be possible? Well, unblockable shot would have to exist I think, if Ulti is truthful about being doctor we already know for sure they have this in some capacity.

I just still don't understand the actions if this is the case.

If Ulti is actually scum, then why in the world does scum not kill anyone for two nights in the game so far? That would be some huge trade off for letting Ulti look better that I don't think it should be considered.

All power roles being variants is some pretty bad meta stuff.

And for the people talking about how unbelievable bp doctor is, or was, we are running out of valid explanations for it not to exist. The first requirement for it not to exist is this game of mafia has no doctor when (meta alert) the source of the games theme literally has a character named the doctor. Lol.

ctes you realize you being vig means town has a bulletproof doctor and an extra kill, right?

wallmasterz posted...

ctes you realize you being vig means town has a bulletproof doctor and an extra kill, right?

Assuming bulletproof doctor is still true, yes, though in the event that it is you know for sure that scum has ways to play around it given Ulti said he protected Crescent the night she died.

UltimaterializerX posted...

And Han, Ive been scum with you multiple times. YOU TAUGHT ME TO TARGET OURSELVES TO GET CONFIRMED. Dont lie and pretend you dont bus teammates. I have a very long memory.

Clearly you have the memory of a goldfish.

Name one game we were Scum together in. Name one.

And better yet, recognize that the ONLY game recently where you didn't call me Scum was the game I was Cult. Every other game, where I was always Town, you called me Scum.

You clearly can't read me.

I know I theorized Ctes as claiming a vig shot on a bad N1 target to gain clout, but we have to keep in mind that that theory requires Scum to willingly aim at a vanilla as well. And if they didn't redirect you or JC last night, then it means they didn't on N1, which makes the Death shot worse.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

we have to keep in mind that that theory requires Scum to willingly aim at a vanilla as well. And if they didn't redirect you or JC last night, then it means they didn't on N1, which makes the Death shot worse.

We already established the point would be killing town and trying to confirm ctes town at the same time, so scum going for vanilla isnt farfetched there. I mean correct me if Im wrong, but no one other than death knew for certain death was vanilla when he was killed.

ctesjbuvf posted...

All power roles being variants is some pretty bad meta stuff.

How so? I happen to think its pretty clever game design.

My current view of things

Town

Wall
Ulti
JC

Sultan
Ben

Lea
Dumey

Han
Ctes

Scum

To be clear not saying I think Lea and Dumey are both scum. Rather, I believe the last scummate is there.

You're implying a pretty huge scum trap from hosts side, that's not clever game design.

Votals:
[0] Han - (Ulti)
[0] ctes - (Ulti)

With 9 alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

Day ends Wednesday March 15th at 8pm EST, or approximately 36.5 hours.

PunishedBen posted...

Here's some very loose reads based on things I remember or just saw recently on the last few pages.

3- Han. SCUM? Unless literally he is the one who got protected last night. Very possible as well and I'm about to be very wrong.

Ben considering how little of the game you had read when you posted this, what made you so sure of Han being scum? And why would him being saved last night be the only exception?

ctesjbuvf posted...

You're implying a pretty huge scum trap from hosts side, that's not clever game design.

Last game all town other than Mario and Luigi was a star spirit or party member but Gourmet Guy was still on the safe list. I dont recall any complaints then.

I do get scum being annoyed this am because it sounds like you guys talked yourself into being positive ultis bp claim was bs and you just found out it isnt.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Its a very old game from many years ago (I think it was Killer7). I remember very clearly you wanting us to target ourselves with abilities to get town confirmed.

Ulti, this is probably the worst argument I've ever seen levied against me in a Mafia game.

I'm not being a jerk. Don't flip this around on me because you decided to pick a game from...

I can't find the game.
Post fettbox but pre-logging of faqs would imply that the game took place in late 2010.

A game from 13 years ago (which, coincidentally you picked one that can't be verified through logs).

Now, I spent plenty of time in the previous game day in discussion when the lynch was set in stone, and you did nothing but let the lynch happen then tried to blame me solely for it. So excuse me for being the slightest bit annoyed here that you're flinging crap and then trying to act as though you're the only person with clean hands.

My time to engage was yesterday early and Sunday. You want me to dig deep into things now, you have to wait until Wednesday.

That's what you chose by afking in the previous game day.

I'm busy now. I'll keep up and check in when I can.

Anyways again I am Morn Town Drunk.

Ctes being scum only makes sense if he is vig/ something else and used the vig to try and confirm himself.

Dumey could be both neighbor/something.

Or a vanilla is not a vanilla and was a limited use thing.

What do we think the set up is 4 v 10? Or 3 v 11? Or 3 v 1 v 9?

Also for ctes and unblockable and a vig both is a bit strong. Unless it's a Jack of all kill kind of a deal. But also adding on a double voter Varient on the scum side that can control a lynch is crazy to think about.

I'm not the best at balance but I know that on paper doesn't sound balanced. Maybe that's why ulti is BP Doctor? Cuz that is also a strong role.

Also Ben brought up a good point earlier and might be why the joke went over my head. Uh Creasent was miller cop.. but there isn't another cop to scan her guilty??

UltimaterializerX posted...

If ctes is town, 3 scum left. If hes scum, 2 scum left.

lol

The other possibility I thought about is there was 5 scum, which is crazy but not impossible since we got bp doc. There would be 4 scum left and scum would probably especially annoyed because they thought the game would end after n3. But I doubt this and I think scum would be more open to the bp doc claim than they were if this was the case.

wallmasterz posted...

Last game all town other than Mario and Luigi was a star spirit or party member but Gourmet Guy was still on the safe list. I dont recall any complaints then.

You forgot Peach, but even do it would be fair criticism of the game. I hesitated on Dumey then because his role seemed out of place (godfather was goddamn Fice T.) and it made sense to me that there's be some characters like that to anti-meta. Of course if I remember General Guy existing I gun for Dumey a lot harder then, it just wasn't necessary to.

Regardless, that game doesn't make my point less valid.

wallmasterz posted...

The other possibility I thought about is there was 5 scum, which is crazy but not impossible since we got bp doc. There would be 4 scum left and scum would probably especially annoyed because they thought the game would end after n3.

If there were 4 scum left they make sure a n3 kill goes through, it doesn't matter who they kill then.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Also Ben brought up a good point earlier and might be why the joke went over my head. Uh Creasent was miller cop.. but there isn't another cop to scan her guilty??

My best assumption is that it's a red herring, which isn't that uncommon.

Maybe you're right about the red herring (I always think of a pup named Scooby-Doo when I hear Red Herring lol)

Question for Han.

Do you think Ulti is scum despite everything on the table or are you just frustrated with him beacuse he is throwing inaccurate shade, or both?

Hey Wall, why did JC go from possible scum to your top town tier?

UltimaterializerX posted...

Alright Wall, I gotta know. Youve been needling me all game and now youre playing nice. Why the change?

Im surprised youre asking, tbh. I am looking to solve the game and trying to work from the most logical building blocks forward. I believe there is a doctor in this game. I am putting a lot of trust in this being the case. If Im wrong, ulti you got extremely lucky with a fake claim and Ill accept the L. If anyone died other than you n3, I was going to come in guns blazing after you. Anyone who thinks it through like I have knows there was a 99% chance you end up dead or no one dies n3. The alternative is theres no doctor and youre lucky af scum covering your tracks but it only makes sense to move forward on the 99% probability.

##vote:Ctes

I'm kinda lost but I got a weird feeling about ctes.

Looking at ctes alot of his play is riding on his vig shot. I'm going to do a ctes ISO to confirm this thought. But something isn't sitting right in my mind

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Looking at ctes alot of his play is riding on his vig shot.

A lot of my play?