Board 8 > Post Your Hot Takes Regarding Ace Attorney

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Ashethan posted...

Hot Take: Manfred Von Karma isn't that great of aProsecutor. Great villain, but not a great prosecutor.

You don't have to be great when you cheat...!

Truck was someone I was predisposed to hate because of what they did to Phoenix but she's both more charismatic and a better assistant than Maya.

My biggest issue with Maya is outside of 1-4 she is effectively useless except when a victim or accused of murder.

Crescent-Moon posted...

Truck was someone I was predisposed to hate

Yeah she withholds Mew from you

MacArrowny posted...

Ooo, time for a scorching take:

Ema in 1-5 is a better assistant than Maya ever was.

Oh yeah this is a good one.

Honestly I kinda don't like any of the Feys except Mia, and even then only when you play as her.

I don't need Maya to be "useful," although she helps a lot more with getting witnesses to talk than I realized when I was doing line counts. This is another thing with Edgeworth in the AAI games. He dominates conversations (and probably should).

Also the games should've had Maya channel Mia for mundane purposes more often like in 3-3.

Maya says a lot of quirky useless things, is almost entirely reliant on Mia, and is basically just a glorified set piece for a lot of the series.

1-2 accused of murder

2-2 accused of murder
2-4 kidnapped

3-5 missing AND later accused of murder

6-3 accused of murder within 10 minutes of being on screen after not showing up for 2 1/2 games
6-5 kidnapped

Maya is involved in 12 cases. She is some way in grave peril in half of them. Half!

That's an oversimplification of her character, but I don't expect people to change their minds on Maya. It feels like you either really appreciate what she brings to the series via those "quirky useless things" or you dislike the circumstances surrounding her character (spirit channeling and frequently getting into trouble).

foolm0r0n posted...

Edgeworth isn't a good enough character to have his own game

Nah Edgeworth is great.

It's just that AA needs trials to work. Endless arguments in the street ain't it. It just feels like every case is dragging.

The spirit channeling doesn't bother me. It's an alternate world, and it sure as hell goes nowhere near the insanity that is Layton vs. Being a victim in half her cases does. She's a character who's badly held back by how they use her, and they basically make it so she can't do a damn thing without Mia most of the time.

The only case that succeeds in actually breaking my suspension of disbelief is 3-3, which is so shoddy from the ground up that it skirts along the bottom tier of cases for me in the series. The only thing about 3-3 I actually like is how I sympathize with Viola. The extremity of the circumstances aside, I've been where she is.

I like spirit channeling because it makes cases more difficult to crack, and the series uses it masterfully, particularly in 3-5 and 6-5. Suddenly it's not just people moving, it is also spirits moving between bodies and you have to figure out the puzzle that comes from it.

Speaking of Layton vs. though, while I didn't hate the game, it's the one game in the series I'm not sure I'm ever going to replay because it sure was a lot to digest and it's low points were some of the worst in the series.

Even by Layton standards the plot is lunacy, but it makes sense that they might have to go that far to actually push a crossover.

Yeah even though I dont think its that hot a take I will also add to those saying AAI1 is great. Really felt like a breath of fresh air for the series. That does however lead to an actual hot take I forgot to add earlier

AAI1s length is great and helps to sell its villain who is one of the best in AA history. Fantastic case all round. Also the Lethal Weapon 2 thing is one of the best uses of a pop culture reference in the series.

Also this is a really niche thing, but while I know that this series has never been about accuracy it really annoys me that they talk about the Supreme Court in TGAA. The British Supreme Court was only founded in 2009, they mean the High Court.

Crescent-Moon posted...

Speaking of Layton vs. though, while I didn't hate the game, it's the one game in the series I'm not sure I'm ever going to replay because it sure was a lot to digest and it's low points were some of the worst in the series.

Even by Layton standards the plot is lunacy, but it makes sense that they might have to go that far to actually push a crossover.

Nah, Layton/AA's plot isn't anywhere nearly as insane as Diabolical Box, in particular.

Maya has the best interactions with Phoenix by a landslide. I don't like spirit channeling but she's still the best assistant character because of that.

LightningStrikes posted...

That does however lead to an actual hot take I forgot to add earlier

AAI1s length is great and helps to sell its villain who is one of the best in AA history. Fantastic case all round.

Okay you win. Hottest take award right here.

Just realised I messed up that post, talking specifically about AAI1-5. I love that guy, hes the best and hes frankly the best for all the reasons everybody hates him.

LightningStrikes posted...

Just realised I messed up that post, talking specifically about AAI1-5. I love that guy, hes the best and hes frankly the best for all the reasons everybody hates him.

Alba is a strong villain that seems to get flak for being strong

He's okay.

Fighting him is incredibly unfun though.

Feels like a weaker version of what we got from 1-5 and 6-5 villains too.

I really like E1-5 and I don't have any problem with Alba, the major issue I think is that the game overall presents so few stakes for Edgeworth personally, like the overarching mystery with the smuggling ring or whatever isn't interesting at all

LightningStrikes posted...

Just realised I messed up that post, talking specifically about AAI1-5. I love that guy, hes the best and hes frankly the best for all the reasons everybody hates him.

He's the best for not being as good of a showdown as Shih-na?

Paratroopa1 posted...

I really like E1-5 and I don't have any problem with Alba, the major issue I think is that the game overall presents so few stakes for Edgeworth personally, like the overarching mystery with the smuggling ring or whatever isn't interesting at all

Yeah, AAI1 is Kay's story. AAI2 is Edgeworth's.

Key doesn't have amazing chemistry with Edgeworth but she's pretty likable overall.

I feel like if you put her with Nick or Apollo she would shine.

I don't think she's supposed to have amazing chemistry. She's not meant to replace Gumshoe - It's just the running joke.

Her relative legal grayness bounces well off of Edgeworth being such a stiff. I kinda think with Nick she would just run him over personality wise and he'd just let her do almost anything she wanted.

Ace Attorney has significantly better writing and comedic timing than the other anime-based murder mystery VNs (Danganronpa and Uchikoshi/Zero Escape). Its to the point where I think VLR is the only one that can compete with most Ace Attorney games. The others are out of AAs
league.

It's definitely better than Danganronpa. Which had potential to be as good as but kept trying too much to make craaaaazy twists.

Zero Escape doesn't feel like the same thing as AA or Danganronpa anyway. It's much less of a murder mystery. They just get lumped together because they came out around the same time.

They get lumped together because they're point and click adventures, even though the stories and themes are pretty different.

I don't consider ZE, DR, and AA to be comparable just because they're all various forms of VNs.

I like them all for different reasons and have zero interest in comparing them to eachother, just like I won't be comparing this new Master Detective Aechives franchise when it starts.

They're more comparable to each other than most games. I don't see the problem with comparing any games, though...

Comparing them was probably the wrong phrase, I more meant I have no interest in ranking them next to eachother in the same list.

ZE is probably better overall depending on how much you like like time travel gimmicks (I love them) but AA is undeniably better written. DR on the other hand has absolutely nothing going for it. Except for Improved Hangman's Gambit

Danganronpa has anime tropes going for it

Ace Attorney is a series I could endlessly replay and never get bored. Replaying the others feels like a bit much.

DR is the only one I have any interest in reading fanfiction for so there's that going for it.

I've probably read over a million words of DR fic at this point across the franchise lol.

LeonhartFour posted...

Danganronpa has anime tropes going for it

Tons of games have that including AA and ZE. DR has more fanservice maybe, depending on your taste.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

DR is the only one I have any interest in reading fanfiction for so there's that going for it.

This is fair. I'm sure amateur writers can do a lot better with that concept than whatever drunkard writes the actual games.

DR is clearly aimed at a younger audience, and that's fine. I probably would have adored it if I discovered it when I was 15. It's not like AA isn't aimed at all ages as well, to a somewhat lesser degree.

i feel DR and AA are very clearly comparable due to how they alternate trials and investigations and have a similar number of cases. 999 (the only one i've played) is pretty different.

it's not clear to me that DR is written for a younger audience, but its "benefit" over AA is clearly in its larger main cast, plus the fact that main cast members are murderers and victims.

oh and of course the improved hangman's gambit

Wow, so much love for Dual Destinies. I guess my hot take is that game has an extremely underwhelming conclusion with the nonentity final boss and all the good stuff leading up to it is made less interesting as a result.

It definitely has the weakest final case besides AA4.

Though the murder case itself is really solid. Love the stuff with the robots.

I love the final boss of Dual Destinies. Obviously everything else about the ending of Spirit of Justice is better other than the lack of Athena, but I prefer the actual character of the main DD villain much more than SoJ's.

ZeldaTPLink posted...

It definitely has the weakest final case besides AA4.

Cybat posted...

Wow, so much love for Dual Destinies. I guess my hot take is that game has an extremely underwhelming conclusion with the nonentity final boss and all the good stuff leading up to it is made less interesting as a result.

This is the consensus, not a hot take...

Unless you mean 5-6, the last and arguably best case in the game.

MacArrowny posted...

Unless you mean 5-6, the last and arguably best case in the game.

inarguably, tbh

5-6 might be the 3rd or even 4th best case in DD depending on how I'm feeling

Which again speaks to the quality of that game

(5-5 is the best case in the game)

5-3 is amazing tho.

It's terrible. But also amazing.

Why are Athena cases so impossibly goofy.

People's reactions to the final villain of DD have always fascinated me in how diverse they are. I think it really comes down to the idea of enjoying the concept of that type of villain itself.

I liked 5-5 and its villain, but the case ended with a bit of a whimper. I think that's more of an issue than the villain, personally.

I guess my hot take is that 1-5 is vastly inferior to any other finale besides 4-4.

It also seems to make everyone like JFA just a little less than me because it retroactively makes all the tension over Edgeworth leaving completely unjustified. (The Wii version didn't have it included for whatever reason.)

The Ace Attorney series is very overrated. Trials and Tribulations is the only great game; the others are all carried by one amazing case and maybe a few other 'okay' ones.

Phantom's psychotic break might be the best meltdown in the series.

Yeah 5-5 rules the only thing to hold against is that it is kind of half of a case but I guess since Apollo Justice went the way it did they didnt want to do only four cases again.

It MIGHT be the second worst final case but theyre all great except for 4-4 and even thats still pretty good. I might take 5-5 over TGAA1-5 though.

Speaking of which TGAA1-5 hot take: the opening portion is amazing and necessary for the case to work at all. The actual part where it drags is the first part of the trial before Ashley gets involved.

I don't really care for 5-5 too much - the twist is fun but the Phantom is just too poorly executed for that case to really stand out for me.