Board 8 > Post Your Hot Takes Regarding Ace Attorney

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UshiromiyaEva
03/10/23 2:56:13 PM
#101:


That part definitely sucks, but I do love 5-3 still, mainly because Athena is so good. Seriously it's infuriating that she'll likely never get her own game.

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colliding
03/10/23 2:57:11 PM
#102:


5-3 is the best case in DD and it's not close

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Crescent-Moon
03/10/23 2:58:37 PM
#103:


UshiromiyaEva posted...
That part definitely sucks, but I do love 5-3 still, mainly because Athena is so good. Seriously it's infuriating that she'll likely never get her own game.
As a trans myself, I kind of took it as a slap to the face. I know I'm biased.

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Kenri
03/10/23 2:59:50 PM
#104:


I guess I don't think "Robin is a crossdresser" is a particularly good setup, and I definitely don't give them credit to write that in 2013 in a way that holds up in 2023. I agree that being straight up transgender would have been better but a) it was 2013 so they'd have probably fucked that up too lmao and b) it's still super super easy to read Robin as genderfluid because they still use the "male" personality pretty often after the reveal. If they fully switched to just girl mode after the reveal I wouldn't like the character at all.

Anyway yeah this is all the reason I say "problematic fave" and not just fave, it definitely wasn't handled well.

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Leonhart4
03/10/23 3:19:06 PM
#105:


5-3 slaps

Courtroom Revolutionnaire is the best attorney theme in the series

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MacArrowny
03/10/23 3:21:19 PM
#106:


I never really felt like Robin was being set up to be trans or anything, but maybe that's just because I'm used to Japanese stuff.

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XIII_Rocks
03/10/23 3:24:34 PM
#107:


I liked the ending of 5-3 in fairness

Good villain and Athena ruled

But the entire setup and basically all the other characters sucked

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Nanis23
03/10/23 4:34:50 PM
#108:


The "You are goner!" twist was so, so so BAD
(Forgot for a moment we are in a hot take thread, this is not a hot take)

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TheRock1525
03/10/23 4:36:18 PM
#109:


Barok van Zieks has the best individual theme in any game.

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TheRock1525
03/10/23 4:40:49 PM
#110:


Oh and Gregson is the best detective.

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Leonhart4
03/10/23 4:41:26 PM
#111:


MacArrowny posted...
I never really felt like Robin was being set up to be trans or anything, but maybe that's just because I'm used to Japanese stuff.

Nah, it's similar to the Naoto stuff in Persona 4. It's someone feeling the need to pretend to be a man to be taken seriously in a male-dominated profession.

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Leonhart4
03/10/23 4:42:20 PM
#112:


TheRock1525 posted...
Oh and Gregson is the best detective.

Along these lines, grumpy Ema is the best Ema.

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Bitto
03/10/23 4:45:01 PM
#113:


5-2 is kind of a weak case all-around. The best part is Blackquills strong presence in court and the final twist.

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UshiromiyaEva
03/10/23 4:45:18 PM
#114:


Leonhart4 posted...
Nah, it's similar to the Naoto stuff in Persona 4. It's someone feeling the need to pretend to be a man to be taken seriously in a male-dominated profession.

There's a community of thousands so convinced that Naoto was trans and the writers were censored that they've built entire mods for the game to change it to reflect this.

Yeah, I'm sure the writers who in P5 were still putting the predatory, flaming gays trying to get with young boys scene into the game DEFINITELY had a nuanced trans narrative in mind for Naoto.

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TheRock1525
03/10/23 5:19:37 PM
#115:


Leonhart4 posted...
Along these lines, grumpy Ema is the best Ema.

Snackoo'd

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Raka_Putra
03/10/23 5:23:09 PM
#116:


Edgeworth's design makes him look weird and old.

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Leonhart4
03/10/23 11:52:03 PM
#117:


We should've gotten another Apollo vs. Blackquill case. They play off of each other so well.

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foolm0r0n
03/11/23 12:27:13 AM
#118:


I've only played AA1.

1-1 through 1-4 are absolutely perfect. Probably the best writing in any VN ever (especially localization), and excellent puzzle design too. Every second is gripping and it uses the mechanics so well.

1-5 however is one of the worst things you can play. It has literally every single VN problem that you can think of: dry, stretched out, gimmicky, awkward writing. I think it takes 2x as long to finish as the first 4 cases do combined.

I only discovered later that it was made years later for the DS specifically. But even so, it's mind blowing that they put something of that quality next to the original cases.

This is also why I've only played AA1.

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Haste_2
03/11/23 12:38:45 AM
#119:


My apologies for degrading the previous topic by ranking all the AA games. I just had never done so since playing GAA2 and I was curious as to what my current rankings were >_>

Hot takes... hot takes....

Pursuit ~ Cornered isn't very good music. Likewise with most other pursuit themes in the series. The only one that's great is Pursuit ~ Wanting to Find the Truth, and even then, it's not amazing. Just great.

2-3 has a fantastic villain and fantastic concluding day 2 trial (even if the rest of the case is "meh").

I am with Leonhart on Dual Destinies being the most consistently good Ace Attorney game in the series. Even 5-2 is great.

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XIII_Rocks
03/11/23 1:03:52 AM
#120:


Oh, and I'm not a fan of every case only being two days after AA1.

6's final trial day is just absurdly long and I wonder if there's a way that case could have improved with another day.

Idk if it would have made it better in that specific case, but it's weird that they just never went to three days again after AA1.

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TeamRocketElite
03/11/23 1:25:36 AM
#121:


The final case of GAA2 is a three day trial.

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_SJimW_
03/11/23 1:48:35 AM
#122:


TeamRocketElite posted...
The final case of GAA2 is a three day trial.

This reminds me of another one I have: Spirit of Justice has seven cases (counting the DLC). 6-5's first part and its second part should have been different cases, because they basically are.

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Leonhart4
03/11/23 7:04:48 AM
#123:


6-6 is technically the only two day trial in SoJ. Both days in 6-3 are separate cases.

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ZeldaTPLink
03/11/23 8:45:49 AM
#124:


All 5 cases from AAI1 combined aren't better than any single case from the main series. Not even whatever you are thinking of. The game itself is just incredibly unfun to play, and all cases are badly designed story-wise except maybe I-4 (which still suffers from bad gameplay anyway). Even the cases from the main series that have bad writing/characters are better because the games themselves are fun.

If this had been the start of the Ace Attorney series, it would have died after just this game.
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ZeldaTPLink
03/11/23 8:50:16 AM
#125:


Though that makes for another hot take: the villain of I-4 is great, enough to almost make I-5 playable. Almost.
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ZeldaTPLink
03/11/23 8:59:24 AM
#126:


1-3 has good writing but is the weak link of the first game, again because of the gameplay. 1-5 challenges it in the regard but the story is so fantastic it manages to stay afloat.

2-3 is average.

3-2 is overrated.

4-3 is alright. 4-2 is probably the best case in that game.

AA5/AA6 are just that good and I'm sad so many people dropped the series after 3 or 4.

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ZeldaTPLink
03/11/23 9:01:56 AM
#127:


NFUN posted...
4-1 isn't good

it's not bad either. it makes me feel absolutely nothing

This.

Yeah it's fun to play and it has a twist! But it needs story to work and the fact this is the one game where the filler cases are the best ones says something about its story.
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plasmabeam
03/11/23 9:36:22 AM
#128:


AA1 is better than AA3.

I like the variety of the cases in 1 better than the overarching story of 3. Also, I generally dislike flashbacks in fiction, so that hurts 3 in my eyes as well.

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Leonhart4
03/11/23 11:55:16 AM
#129:


E1-4's story isn't good. Gumshoe willing to throw away his career and possibly his life to protect Kay's feelings is supposed to be endearing, but it's just dumb.

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Nanis23
03/11/23 12:32:08 PM
#130:


You know what. After reading the posts here I feel like I finally have a hot take

I liked AAI1

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Leonhart4
03/11/23 12:37:34 PM
#131:


I like AAI1! I'm just not on board with what E1-4 tried to do.

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Ryokles
03/11/23 1:04:44 PM
#132:


I enjoyed dual destinies and spirit of justice more than the original trilogy

mike meekins is great

2-4 is overrated

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Leonhart4
03/11/23 1:10:03 PM
#133:


Glad to see the Dual Destinies contingent showing up!

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KamikazePotato
03/11/23 1:26:31 PM
#134:


DD would have a claim to the best game in the series if it wasn't perpetually living in the shadow of AA4's writing screwups.

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foolm0r0n
03/11/23 1:26:51 PM
#135:


Edgeworth isn't a good enough character to have his own game

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paulg235
03/11/23 1:29:18 PM
#136:


I actually wonder if its better to just recommend to people who want to get into the series to just skip Apollo Justice and the Edgeworth games and just go straight to Dual Destinies instead after T&T and if it would be better to play DD without any knowledge of AJ. You obviously miss a few important plot points of the series (how Phoenix lost his badge, why Apollo is with him now), but given some people's criticisms of AJ and how it kinda ruined the rest of the series for them afterwards, maybe not being given that information might make DD and SOJ more enjoyable to them. It's definitely an experiment I hope someone who has no exposure to the post-trilogy games tries or has tried.

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Leonhart4
03/11/23 1:30:28 PM
#137:


foolm0r0n posted...
Edgeworth isn't a good enough character to have his own game

You should probably play more than PW1 before saying this...!

I will say Edgeworth probably didn't need a sidekick because he's too smart to have a sidekick who's actually helpful, but the series can't help itself with teenage girls.

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KamikazePotato
03/11/23 1:31:43 PM
#138:


There definitely was something much less fun about playing as Edgeworth than the other protagonists. Some characters are just better left as foils or antagonists.

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Crescent-Moon
03/11/23 1:38:27 PM
#139:


Leonhart4 posted...
You should probably play more than PW1 before saying this...!

I will say Edgeworth probably didn't need a sidekick because he's too smart to have a sidekick who's actually helpful, but the series can't help itself with teenage girls.
I kind of see Kay as a representation of Edgeworth becoming more human. While I think the dynamic could have been done better, she enables a side of Edgeworth that's less cold and actually cares.

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Leonhart4
03/11/23 1:41:31 PM
#140:


KamikazePotato posted...
There definitely was something much less fun about playing as Edgeworth than the other protagonists. Some characters are just better left as foils or antagonists.

Nah, I think 3-5 proved it can work because it's one of the most perfect executions of fanservice in any game. Should've just kept him paired up with Gumshoe...!

Crescent-Moon posted...
I kind of see Kay as a representation of Edgeworth becoming more human. While I think the dynamic could have been done better, she enables a side of Edgeworth that's less cold and actually cares.

Which goes along with my hot take about Kay earlier: She was better as a damsel in distress than a sidekick.

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MacArrowny
03/11/23 1:52:16 PM
#141:


Ooo, time for a scorching take:

Ema in 1-5 is a better assistant than Maya ever was.

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KamikazePotato
03/11/23 1:56:14 PM
#142:


3-5 worked because it was temporary. That's what made it special and fun. Stretching that out to a full game (two full games, even) felt off. The framing of the AAI games didn't help, as it lost the inherent drama of the courtroom setting.

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TheRock1525
03/11/23 1:59:42 PM
#143:


MacArrowny posted...
Ooo, time for a scorching take:

Ema in 1-5 is a better assistant than Maya ever was.

I'll do you one better:

Trucy > Maya

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Leonhart4
03/11/23 2:02:22 PM
#144:


MacArrowny posted...
Ooo, time for a scorching take:

Ema in 1-5 is a better assistant than Maya ever was.

1-5 has the highest percentage of jokes that don't hit, and Ema is the biggest offender...! 1-5 is also guilty of making Phoenix and the Judge TOO dumb at times.

KamikazePotato posted...
3-5 worked because it was temporary. That's what made it special and fun. Stretching that out to a full game (two full games, even) felt off. The framing of the AAI games didn't help, as it lost the inherent drama of the courtroom setting.

I think the loss of trial days hurts it more than Edgeworth as the protagonist.

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Leonhart4
03/11/23 2:04:44 PM
#145:


Also Trucy is a fantastic assistant. She's the ray of sunshine in the otherwise dark and miserable world of Apollo Justice.

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MacArrowny
03/11/23 2:19:43 PM
#146:


Leonhart4 posted...


I think the loss of trial days hurts it more than Edgeworth as the protagonist.
Does each case in both AAI games take place over the span of a few hours? I feel like that's the case, and it's a bit silly.

With AAI2-3 as the exception, of course.

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plasmabeam
03/11/23 2:19:59 PM
#147:


Nanis23 posted...
You know what. After reading the posts here I feel like I finally have a hot take

I liked AAI1

Same. Never understood the hate. Thought it was GREAT.

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Leonhart4
03/11/23 2:24:22 PM
#148:


MacArrowny posted...
Does each case in both AAI games take place over the span of a few hours? I feel like that's the case, and it's a bit silly.

With AAI2-3 as the exception, of course.

I think E2-2, E2-3, and E2-4 span multiple days, but the entirety of both games takes place over the span of 2-3 weeks, which is wild.

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Big_Bob
03/11/23 2:26:20 PM
#149:


Ema is a bad character because she looks and acts like my stepsister, who I loathe. This is a completely valid reason to dislike her.

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Ashethan
03/11/23 2:33:37 PM
#150:


Hot Take: Manfred Von Karma isn't that great of aProsecutor. Great villain, but not a great prosecutor.

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