Board 8 > Star Trek Mafia - Topic 2: These Are The Voyages

(+) Yeah! (+)

SirChris posted...

This isn't the same question. Town don't need to be as motivated as scum do in their actions. Often town will do things just because they feel like doing it. Asking for scum motivation is much more important because it leads to a motive

(The answer is saying that fakes town whimsicalness and I know friend of the game Ben has done this as scum)

Ok so town does nonsensical and whimsical things more. Han, what was the point of asking me this? You dont think sheep is ballsy enough to make this play? You want me to drop suspicion towards Sheep? If sheep is scum, kind of poetic he replaced Ben lol

Han, not to mention, you were the loudest by far against sheep when the game first started.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Man are the people who think Im scummy going to feel silly tomorrow lmao

Scum should TOTALLY roleblock and shoot me tonight btw. Itll be even funnier!

I don't think I've ever seen scum you go this long without trying to lynch me so I guess that makes you fine right now.

Han has been giving my gut bad vibes for most of the game that I've been trying to figure out but now I'm being self aware and remembering I tend to suspect him almost every game we play.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Ill respond on day two when Ive won your game for you, no worries. We have a scum dead to rights already if you guys would just listen to me

Who ya feeling?

early game Han on Sheep, BCT

t1p31 - I agree with not liking sheep
t1p33 - Sheep mentions claiming
t1p94 - Agreed with Sheep on BCT but feels Sheep was theatrical about it
t1p114 - the easiest way to test BCT is by getting a train on him, and when he gets angry enough to reveal his alignment, even if he's Town, half of the players will be convinced they need to lynch him anyway, so it's kind of a mixed bag - Han
t1p124 - fwiw, when BCT was Scum, I fosed him on his first post, and since then I've usually been the person saying he's Town because he gets mad when he's incorrectly fosed.

I think there's a very significant different between the two - BCT more didn't know what to do when he caught as Scum, but he gets really upset when people call him Scum and try to lynch him.

Ergo, he's likely Town rn - Han

t1p136 - Han responds to Chris asking what Han thinks BCT would do as scum

t1p144 - Chris tells Han he (Chris) has his eye on Han due to his actions towards BCT to start the game

Hey BCT thoughts on JC?

Thoughts on Chris

And thoughts on Sheep

I don't remember you saying a whole lot about these 3

htaeD posted...

Oh its literally only Ctes that is in my blind area, lol.

Actually, same. I see this guy posting and it just never sticks with me and I've never generated anything that even resembles a read.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Hey BCT thoughts on JC?

Thoughts on Chris

And thoughts on Sheep

I don't remember you saying a whole lot about these 3

Dumey asked me about these three last night. Post 294 of this topic.

Thoughts have not really changed.

wallmasterz posted...

Ok so town does nonsensical and whimsical things more. Han, what was the point of asking me this? You dont think sheep is ballsy enough to make this play? You want me to drop suspicion towards Sheep? If sheep is scum, kind of poetic he replaced Ben lol

Han, not to mention, you were the loudest by far against sheep when the game first started.

My original post that started this was talking about Dumey.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

Dumey asked me about these three last night. Post 294 of this topic.

Thoughts have not really changed.

Ahh good to know must have missed it!

Crescent-Moon posted...

I don't think I've ever seen scum you go this long without trying to lynch me so I guess that makes you fine right now.

Han has been giving my gut bad vibes for most of the game that I've been trying to figure out but now I'm being self aware and remembering I tend to suspect him almost every game we play.

Probably because my username is "OfTheNekos" but I'm making no references to cats.

There's a fair bit I'd like to respond to, but my morning at work is very busy, so it may come in a bit piecemeal. Be patient with me if it seems like I haven't gotten to you yet.

htaeD posted...

Why does it look like you havent read my posts at all, EDumey? But rather only read what JC said about me. (and not even correctly at that)

Heck some could say that you are doing a lot of pinging people for questions yourself.
I know thats not all you did. You at least worded some decent arguments about JC and his list that I do agree with. But I am wondering when the information gathering of yours will pay off.

I'm not sure what is going on this game with people either feeling misrepresented in their activity level, or gaslighting about their activity level. Ulti before claimed that he thinks he has posted more than anyone else in the game which is just patently false. You (Death) were late to the game, and then because of timezone shenanigans have not been as active. There were multiple people, not just JC or me, that pointed out you were not posting to your usual level, which IIRC is why the current votes on you manifested. I understand from your perspective that you want to say you've posted as best you can, but if I were to ISO you later today, would you really stand by the idea that you've mostly been quieter, not interjecting as much as usual on "voice of reason" topics (mostly because you haven't been around for them, and have been mostly pinging for questions? I really don't even think that's an unfair assessment. You even started by making an excuse for your lower activity because Mondays are rough, which I was willing to give you sympathetically last night! It's not scummy to have an unproductive Monday. It is slightly scummy to then come in and try to say people who called you out on it are misrepresenting you.

Now I do NOT have the time do that ISO right now, but if you feel strongly about this contention, I will try to make some time to do it during my lunch hour later today.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

My original post that started this was talking about Dumey.

ah, my bad. Youre right.

wallmasterz posted...

Han, not to mention, you were the loudest by far against sheep when the game first started.

I'm not sure I entirely agree with this. From my perspective, the players I felt seemed strongest in their views on me up til my claim were Crescent, Ulti, Chris, and you, in roughly that order. I'd probably even put Sultan above Han. I'm normally fairly scared of Han, but he was one of the less noteworthy sources of pressure at least in my view. Not sure if that's because his heart wasn't in it (for any number of reasons) or just because he wasn't round much when I was, but I don't think Han was ever all that adamant in going for me.

BCT, gun to your head, who're you lynching with ten hours to go if you're calling the shots?

Oh I hated your page 1 posts and still hate them, Sheep.

But your claim had me second guessing and reviewing you/Dumey on page 1, action-wise, turned me off on you/Dumey kind of entirely.

I've been getting stuck in a hole in terms of reading people's tones as of late, so I'm trying to conscientiously fight against such urges. Or as Crescent put it, I'm trying to be self aware.

Sheep maybe loudest isnt quite accurate, but I believe Han was the first person to call out how you babied BCT and said youd treat him as town the entire game because it would become obvious if hes scum. Iirc everyone else just raised an eyebrow about your claim post

Let's ponder a scum jc with hypothetical buddies sheep and ulti.

Shades those two buddies in his list but can't spare any solid points for town death. Placates me. Is the first to my knowledge to point out mzero content being good. I found it bad on ulti's part to diss jc and then act like everyone else has been really solid but especially mzero when up to that point I think jc's list of doom was the only one really concurring with that.

Hm hm hm. Was jc just really sloppy as scum here? No death fear, buddies both being voted by me early so decides to placate me? Is that really the play from scum jc when I am sniffing scum early?

Jc's snarkiness has felt town to me so far but a lot of people are causing smoke with jc right now. Jc is also the type of player I feel like scum wouldn't mind going after

So really there are two scenarios. I am wrong and jc is scum or a villain is trying to kill jc. Or jc is scum and a villain is still trying to kill him to bus.

Monty hall says it is better to lynch someone voting jc than to lynch jc.

wallmasterz posted...

ah, my bad. Youre right.

Anyway, to still answer, the reason I asked that question is because I think it's an important question.

Few players like to be that cute as Scum. They usually fall apart when scrutinized anyway (looking at Ben, puns).

And as Chris said earlier, people like to punish players for "bad play" or acting weird. For example, BCT overreacts to slight pressure, and his suspicions are mainly based on who has pointed in his direction. This makes him easy to lynch because people see that and think that it's not up to snuff - yet, that doesn't mean he's Scum. It just means he's emotional and doesn't do well with being suspected.

SirChris posted...

Monty hall says it is better to lynch someone voting jc than to lynch jc.

I think there's only one person voting JC atm though.

Maybe some shade tossed his way, but no commitment.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

I think there's only one person voting JC atm though.

Maybe some shade tossed his way, but no commitment.

Really

What are the votals

My first thought to the momentum on him was it felt delayed. People were scrutinizing parts of his list, then we had a small wave of people all saying he was scum for it.

SirChris posted...

Monty hall says it is better to lynch someone voting jc than to lynch jc.

I don't remember who's on him but I think if any train so far today could be a scum push, it's his. Something about the pressure he's under feels.. Kinda cheap?

SirChris posted...

Really

What are the votals

I thought JC had like 3 votes +a bit more shade?

Crescent-Moon posted...

My first thought to the momentum on him was it felt delayed. People were scrutinizing parts of his list, then we had a small wave of people all saying he was scum for it.

I don't remember who's on him but I think if any train so far today could be a scum push, it's his. Something about the pressure he's under feels.. Kinda cheap?

Crescent and I on the same page. Excellent.

SirChris posted...

I found the panic claim from sheep to be uncharacteristic of previous scum play. I found no obvious buddies trying to come to his rescue post claim from the list ctes gathered although iirc speaking of potential pairings jc was one of the people who hadn't commented at that time.

I think if it turns out sheep is scum then his wagon at that point is pure.

As for sheep himself I haven't read over night closely yet and I saw he posted some. I don't really like any of his early play but it also messes with me that sheep is just blatantly admitting that my read is on point to being close to a previous scum game.

Enough doubt to give sheep a chance to settle in more as he is very good as town when he isn't mislynching doctors.

Do you think there's any chance of my wagon being pure given me being Town? I've being mulling it over in my head and there's no votes that stick out to me as being particularly likely to come from Scum, but it also feels a little unlikely that Scum just sat back and watched the wagon without wanting to pile on.

Sheep007 posted...

Do you think there's any chance of my wagon being pure given me being Town? I've being mulling it over in my head and there's no votes that stick out to me as being particularly likely to come from Scum, but it also feels a little unlikely that Scum just sat back and watched the wagon without wanting to pile on.

Only vote that sticks out to me is actually an unvote. Edumey acted like he was burned getting off of you so fast.

But also given you were acting sus it is possible it was just town not liking you.

wallmasterz posted...

Sheep maybe loudest isnt quite accurate, but I believe Han was the first person to call out how you babied BCT and said youd treat him as town the entire game because it would become obvious if hes scum. Iirc everyone else just raised an eyebrow about your claim post

I stand by my BCT post. I don't think everyone should treat him the same way as I plan to, but you want to get things out of him in atypical ways (such as my being a condescending little turd), because he responds badly to straightforward pressure.

SirChris posted...

Really

What are the votals

I checked.

Ulti hopped on, then off.

Sultan joined recently. This morning.

That's it. Not sure off the top of my head who else agreed with me on JC.

Crescent do you have any updated thoughts on han? I am starting to get suspicious.

MZero posted...

The whole process of Dumey gradually building up to voting Sheep and unvoting immediately after the claim rubs me the wrong way but I haven't been able to put it in words exactly. It didn't seem like he really wanted to be on that train from the start and kind of forced it.

What would you say the meaningful difference between Lea joining the Sheep train was, and me? I feel like we both fairly clearly stated our intents in joining were not necessarily believing Sheep was scum, but wanting to put pressure on Sheep.

In my eyes, I was more clear that the pressure I was looking for was specifically a claim to evaluate. I got what I voted for, and backed off. Lea did not like the claim as much, and so stayed on a bit longer to see if she could get more information. Do these not seem like similar approaches but with different outcomes based on our perception?

SirChris posted...

Edumey - I saw you say I started a train to get a claim out of sheep. To my recollection I never asked for a claim. Slight mischaracterization don't you think?

This is a little out of order, but because I think it's relevant, that may be very true Chris. I think I projected a little of my own intent on your starting the train. Usually when a train for pressure is put on someone, it's to see A. if they break from that pressure and start saying some weird stuff, B. to get a claim out of them, or C. to start an actual lynch no matter how they react because you think they've caught them. I seem to remember your playstyle as being aggressive about getting claims and moving on to the next player you wanted to test, so I may have assumed your intent beyond what you actually stated in game.

If Sheep had just defended himself but refused to claim, do you think you would have let him go after a little bit, provided he showed the receipts that he had been actively engaging with the criticisms on him despite the votes?

HanOfTheNekos posted...

I checked.

Ulti hopped on, then off.

Sultan joined recently. This morning.

That's it. Not sure off the top of my head who else agreed with me on JC.

Interesting. Felt like there was a shit ton of buzz around the slot

EDumey posted...

What would you say the meaningful difference between Lea joining the Sheep train was, and me? I feel like we both fairly clearly stated our intents in joining were not necessarily believing Sheep was scum, but wanting to put pressure on Sheep.

In my eyes, I was more clear that the pressure I was looking for was specifically a claim to evaluate. I got what I voted for, and backed off. Lea did not like the claim as much, and so stayed on a bit longer to see if she could get more information. Do these not seem like similar approaches but with different outcomes based on our perception?

This is a little out of order, but because I think it's relevant, that may be very true Chris. I think I projected a little of my own intent on your starting the train. Usually when a train for pressure is put on someone, it's to see A. if they break from that pressure and start saying some weird stuff, B. to get a claim out of them, or C. to start an actual lynch no matter how they react because you think they've caught them. I seem to remember your playstyle as being aggressive about getting claims and moving on to the next player you wanted to test, so I may have assumed your intent beyond what you actually stated in game.

If Sheep had just defended himself but refused to claim, do you think you would have let him go after a little bit, provided he showed the receipts that he had been actively engaging with the criticisms on him despite the votes?

In poke wars I was town siding early I was content to let sheep die without a claim there day 1 when he was scum. I was going to run that playback back to see what went down and then sheep decided to ruin it.

We need a new topic

SirChris posted...

Crescent do you have any updated thoughts on han? I am starting to get suspicious.

I've been paranoid of Han ever since his defense of Sheep left me confused more than anything else. It felt like a lot of words designed to give people headaches.

I've been marinating on it, but then it kinda struck me in bed this morning I suspect this guy early on a lot. so I'm questioning my judgment.

Sheep007 posted...

BCT, gun to your head, who're you lynching with ten hours to go if you're calling the shots?

You, for putting the gun to my head.

lol, j/k, I'm questioning Ulti a lot right now given how he's changed his mind several times and ignored me asking why. He suspected me, then suddenly didn't think I was scum anymore when he was ignored. Something's up with him.

Crescent-Moon posted...

We need a new topic

I've been paranoid of Han ever since his defense of Sheep left me confused more than anything else. It felt like a lot of words designed to give people headaches.

I've been marinating on it, but then it kinda struck me in bed this morning I suspect this guy early on a lot. so I'm questioning my judgment.

I didn't like him calling my questions not compelling and then he half way walked it back.

Look I can be right and I can be wrong but few have accused me of not being compelling in my thought experiments so like. Hm. Felt like he was trying to minimalize me.

BCT was also mentioning Thinking Sheep was plum but never voted him.

I thought that was weird earlier when he said he though sheep was scum didn't say much about it then pushed a link between Sheep and Walls and voted walls.

Think he moved on since then but later mentioned thinking Sheep was scum with more reasoning

Crescent-Moon posted...

I've been paranoid of Han ever since his defense of Sheep left me confused more than anything else. It felt like a lot of words designed to give people headaches.

???

Which word? Sheep? Flavor?

It was a pretty straightforward defense, so I'm not sure where this reaction comes from.

SirChris posted...

Interesting. Felt like there was a shit ton of buzz around the slot

Chris and I operating under the same misconception that JC was under a lot more fire than he actually was is townvibing me.

Like I swear he was at 3 votes did that just not happen?

HanOfTheNekos posted...

???

Which word? Sheep? Flavor?

It was a pretty straightforward defense, so I'm not sure where this reaction comes from.

All I remember thinking at the time was "If Sheep is scum, immediately murder Han for whatever the fuck this defense is"

BlueCrystalTear posted...

You, for putting the gun to my head.

lol, j/k, I'm questioning Ulti a lot right now given how he's changed his mind several times and ignored me asking why. He suspected me, then suddenly didn't think I was scum anymore when he was ignored. Something's up with him.

I think Ulti's logic there for backing off was that when I'm Scum, I tend to only Townread Town, because I like looking like a good player (kinda true! but definitely not always).

Is it a fair assessment that you're not all that sure on Ulti, but are moreso confused? And would it therefore be fair to say you don't have any solid scumread?

UltimaterializerX posted...

Man are the people who think Im scummy going to feel silly tomorrow lmao

Scum should TOTALLY roleblock and shoot me tonight btw. Itll be even funnier!

I am not convinced ulti is scum but I am pretty much convinced ulti is not vanilla. If his initial enthusiasm was based on the player list I dont get why it dwindled when the player list hasnt yet. At first I thought maybe hes town power and doesnt want to draw too much attention. Is ulti a player who would make this post as town power? Looking for some genuine insight from the folks who know him best

BlueCrystalTear posted...

You, for putting the gun to my head.

lol, j/k, I'm questioning Ulti a lot right now given how he's changed his mind several times and ignored me asking why. He suspected me, then suddenly didn't think I was scum anymore when he was ignored. Something's up with him.

Hmm so you'd go ulti over sheep I guess this tracks a bit but you've been calling sheep scum for a while and haven't went that route

wallmasterz posted...

I am not convinced ulti is scum but I am pretty much convinced ulti is not vanilla. If his initial enthusiasm was based on the player list I dont get why it dwindled when the player list hasnt yet. At first I thought maybe hes town power and doesnt want to draw too much attention. Is ulti a player who would make this post as town power? Looking for some genuine insight from the folks who know him best

Yes, Ulti would make this post as literally anything. I think it's relatively null and ignorable and just the dude having a giggle.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

BCT was also mentioning Thinking Sheep was plum but never voted him.

what

Pretty sure sultan meant scum not plum

wallmasterz posted...

I am not convinced ulti is scum but I am pretty much convinced ulti is not vanilla. If his initial enthusiasm was based on the player list I dont get why it dwindled when the player list hasnt yet. At first I thought maybe hes town power and doesnt want to draw too much attention. Is ulti a player who would make this post as town power? Looking for some genuine insight from the folks who know him best

Ulti is the kind of player who would make that post regardless of his alignment or role and probably has dozens of times before.

Quick someone jump on Plum

Oh btw

Wallmaster is town

Earlier he acted like me voting ulti didn't matter much when we all know me wanting something and me getting serious about it will usually accomplish it. He acted like my vote was like any other which means he doesn't have scumbuddies telling him about me.

Ez reads

BlueCrystalTear posted...

what

Yupp gotta love Phone play and phone thinking it's smarter than me and changing scum to plum

Sultan just scum slipped. Him and plum are buddies tbh