Board 8 > Star Trek Mafia - Topic 2: These Are The Voyages

(+) Yeah! (+)

The Crew:
1- BlueCrystalTear
2- Crescent-Moon
3- ctes
4- Death
5- EDumey
6- Han
7- JC
8- Lea
9- MZero
10- Sheep007
11- SirChris
12- Sultan
13- UltimaterializerX
14- wallmasterz

With 14 players alive it takes 8 to lynch. Day ends at 8:00pm(EST), Tuesday March 7th or approximately 31 hours from now.

Of the Starship Enterprise

quoting again

Crescent-Moon posted...

I don't feel like he engaged with people's arguments after claiming either.

He just said "I'm doomed so I claim vanilla kbye"

This at least could be enforced by whatever is keeping him offline right now

HanOfTheNekos posted... Here's a question:

Who cares about flavor text within one's role PM?

I don't pay much attention usually. Like I read it but I don't really care.

I think the reasoning for claiming before being away for a few hours was pretty good.

I just still don't see how it matches the first post about claiming.

Though I originally didn't also understand why you make that post as scum so. Hmm.

I care about the flavor for what its worth.
And Sheep does have to claim his

classic waking up in PST and there being a few hundred more posts than when I went to bed

will have thoughts for you all in the next little while

Let me refine the question.

Who cares most about the flavor text in a role PM?

Uh, probably scum who's fakeclaiming and is trying to sell the fakeclaim? I don't really understand the point of the question or how it relates to Sheep.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Crescent was till one of the primary voices actively putting suspicion on him though and asking questions.

I'm okay if you and Chris want to keep pushing him to answer your specific questions. I got the impression that you were just jumping on because you were asked to pressure, and didn't have specific questions you wanted answered. Really the only one I thought was unanswered was Wallmasterz, who came onto the train the latest with his own impressions about Sheep and BCT.

But I also forgot Han was voting Sheep until votals were posted, so maybe there was more that Sheep didn't respond to that he should have.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Here's a question:

Who cares about flavor text within one's role PM?

Me?, the host, people who like the flavor, Lol the flavor is part of what makes Mafia fun

Han makes me sad

I think you're misjudging what that care means.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Me?, the host, people who like the flavor, Lol the flavor is part of what makes Mafia fun

Han makes me sad

Han I think any point you are trying to make is flying over sultan's head

Now that I ninja'd you Chris, are you going to continue to play cute or have you seen Sheep's claim play out

SirChris posted...

Han I think any point you are trying to make is flying over sultan's head

It's flying over my head~

ctesjbuvf posted...

Now that I ninja'd you Chris, are you going to continue to play cute or have you seen Sheep's claim play out

I am going to play yakuza and be cute. There is a post game dungeon.

You can be my assistant though. List generally everyone's reaction to sheep's claim and any who have not given a reaction. We are information gathering ctes.

SirChris posted...

I am going to play yakuza and be cute. There is a post game dungeon.

You can be my assistant though. List generally everyone's reaction to sheep's claim and any who have not given a reaction. We are information gathering ctes.

I thought you said you beat yakuza?

I can humor you in a bit but wanting your reaction was part of my information gathering.

Oh post game dungeon nvm

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

I thought you said you beat yakuza?

I just said there is a post game dungeon I didn't know about.

I didn't expect mafia crime dragon quest ok this is too good.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

I am having a think

SirChris posted...

I just said there is a post game dungeon I didn't know about.

I didn't expect mafia crime dragon quest ok this is too good.

My bad i got excited that I caught a scum slip to exsplain inactivity lol

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

My bad i got excited that I caught a scum slip to exsplain inactivity lol

Ah yes the epic Chris scum tell of

*checks notes*

Being inactive

Catching Chris is like catching a Shark. Very hard but would be awesome.

Now thinking it would be interesting myself, I did Chris' homework.

1- BlueCrystalTear
2- Crescent-Moon - Called it hit and run. Said it felt like he asked the game to analyze votes instead of doing it himself, probably not only directed to the claim.
3- ctes - Thought it didn't align with Sheep's initial post about claiming. Thought flavor didn't matter.
4- Death - Disliked him humoring same time at this stage, couldn't follow him. Thinks Dumey baked off to easily.
5- EDumey - Unvoted and understood the supposed idea. Thought it not being something to get around trackers made it more believable.
6- Han - Felt better about Sheep due to no flavor.
7- JC
8- Lea - Felt ignored, asked for flavor but doesn't think it matters, called it a hair trigger claim. Agreed with ctes. Didn't get the fun in town vanilla claiming early and doesn't think it was a genuine feeling or offer. Thought it's good as scum.
9- MZero
10- Sheep007 - Did the claim.
11- SirChris - Tried to be cute and played Yakuza. Didn't want to get into wifom with flavor.
12- Sultan - Thought it seemed odd and guessed he tried to pull a gambit. Neutral on the flavor aspect.
13- UltimaterializerX - Wanted a vote him in spitit because of claiming vanilla with no flavor and thought it had to do with discord issues.
14- wallmasterz - Expected more of him than say vanilla and run so kept his vote for now.

In case it isn't obvious, the remaining three people have said nothing yet. They also haven't been around except that JC came in and said he will catch up.

Don't think this turned out to be too useful to sum up like this but there we go.

EDumey posted...

I'm okay if you and Chris want to keep pushing him to answer your specific questions. I got the impression that you were just jumping on because you were asked to pressure, and didn't have specific questions you wanted answered. Really the only one I thought was unanswered was Wallmasterz, who came onto the train the latest with his own impressions about Sheep and BCT.

Theres a reason I came on to the train latest - I set about reviewing all players. Started with BCT (#1 on the player list) and still thought him suspicious. By the time I finished with BCT there were a few votes on sheep so I decided to review sheep next to share informed thoughts in favor of or against the lynch sheep train. What I found was sheep taking BCT under his wing and defending him quite a bit. Being a bit suspicious of BCT and sheeps whole claim thing from the start of d1, I added my vote hoping to apply some pressure to a sheep claim. It was totally underwhelming so for now Im leaving my vote unless given a compelling reason to unvote. If sheep flips scum, it makes BCT look highly sus imo

Han, what is the point you wanted to make?
My brain is also slow atm

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Me?, the host, people who like the flavor, Lol the flavor is part of what makes Mafia fun

Han makes me sad

Flavor is fun! I agree. I mean, I made SW&P Mafia for Christ's sake.

People care about flavor. But the reasoning for why a role fits is lesser than that. As a community, we've pushed away "Why would Mario be a vanilla, he's the main character" as an argument because we've had years to see it all and have been burned on flavor meta enough. And I mean, people still do it, but not particularly seriously.

Does it matter why "USS Enterprise" is a Vanilla? No. People want to know flavor. But the attachment of the explanation why is superfluous.

The person who cares most about why is the host who made the role, or the scum who helped make the fake role.

Anyway, none of that even matters in this particular situation because it doesn't apply.

Not including flavor on a quick vanilla claim is probably more likely to be a person-by-person basis thing, but my first inclination is that if a Scum is quick-claiming vanilla, they're tossing out a chosen flavor for it.

No problem Wall. Wallm. Wallmz. I'm workshopping that one, hold on.

I wasn't accusing you of bandwagoning by the way, just saying that of all the arguments Sheep hadn't responded to, yours being the latest made the most sense for him not having had a chance to respond yet.

I will have to go back and look, but did Chris or Han actually ask Sheep to respond to anything with their votes when they were made? Will look myself in a moment.

Oh okay I think I get what you're saying.

Like saying I'm X vanilla is okay or I'm just a vanilla is okay

But I'm

X I'm vanilla beacuse blah blah blah looks more suspicious

Ulti, kind of curious why you are voting for sheep in spirit but feel you cant or shouldnt actually move off Dumey? No one else is voting for Dumey, so from my perspective it makes sense to join the group voting sheep if you think hes scum. Its also perfectly acceptable to think you dont have enough info to vote or just dont think sheep is scum. But Dumey isnt happening right now and I dont see the point in hanging a symbolic vote on him. Why not either try persuading folks to move to Dumey or vote for the scum (in your opinion) who is actually gaining traction?

im not accusing you of anything Im just new to playing with you all and asking these questions in good faith

I implied to Sheep that I wanted him to respond about his read on Death, but didn't ask him outright.

I think I'm going to step away and return to this later because a review of Page 1 has me thinking the opposite of what I thought going in. I still didn't like Sheep's posts and neither Dumey's, but the whole "I was gonna claim but decided not to" and "lol me too let's same time" just... Scum doesn't do that.

##Unvote: Sheep

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Oh okay I think I get what you're saying.

Like saying I'm X vanilla is okay or I'm just a vanilla is okay

But I'm

X I'm vanilla beacuse blah blah blah looks more suspicious

That is what I am saying, yes.

Hmm I could see that I guess I know I've done that in the past as town that is why I called in null but that is just me

ctesjbuvf posted...

Said it felt like he asked the game to analyze votes instead of doing it himself, probably not only directed to the claim.

This hasn't changed, by the way. I want to see Sheep actually analyze his own train instead of leaving it up to everyone else.

(Though really I'd also like to just see MZero do anything at all.)

Jc been around? I feel like he is someone I don't specifically remember alot from

1.252 Chris votes Sheep for not being able to follow his reads and not liking that Sheep assumed him as town.
1.262 Sheep immediately engages with Chris and asks what reads Chris wants clarified, and comments about the "trust you to figure me out" comment.
1.267 Chris asks more pointed question about game state from Sheep.
1.276 Sheep answers while also talking with Sultan.
1.280 Chris leaves off with "I guess we shall see how the day develops."

1.297 Han votes Sheep "I agree or don't care about a lot of what's been said, but I want to add that Death is anything but an open book and that's what stuck out to me this morning. I don't believe that read." Then spends rest of the post talking about Ulti.
1.305 Sheep responds to Han about Death, and a whole conversation from multiple people about reading Death is talked about.
Han doesn't provide any other pressure on Sheep here.

1.337 Chris asks Lea to join on Sheep train.
1.341 Lea joins sheep train.
1.350 Lea (my interpretation) says Sheep is a good direction as any with the calibur of players we have an no obvious lynch priorities like Red in the game.
1.362 Lea brings an actual point about Sheep's soft claim and wanting to resolve it.
1.380 Sheep comes back in and claims before saying he will be gone for next couple of hours.

Crescent, please tell me what Sheep failed to engage with before making his claim.

ctesjbuvf posted...

Now thinking it would be interesting myself, I did Chris' homework.

1- BlueCrystalTear
2- Crescent-Moon - Called it hit and run. Said it felt like he asked the game to analyze votes instead of doing it himself, probably not only directed to the claim.
3- ctes - Thought it didn't align with Sheep's initial post about claiming. Thought flavor didn't matter.
4- Death - Disliked him humoring same time at this stage, couldn't follow him. Thinks Dumey baked off to easily.
5- EDumey - Unvoted and understood the supposed idea. Thought it not being something to get around trackers made it more believable.
6- Han - Felt better about Sheep due to no flavor.
7- JC
8- Lea - Felt ignored, asked for flavor but doesn't think it matters, called it a hair trigger claim. Agreed with ctes. Didn't get the fun in town vanilla claiming early and doesn't think it was a genuine feeling or offer. Thought it's good as scum.
9- MZero
10- Sheep007 - Did the claim.
11- SirChris - Tried to be cute and played Yakuza. Didn't want to get into wifom with flavor.
12- Sultan - Thought it seemed odd and guessed he tried to pull a gambit. Neutral on the flavor aspect.
13- UltimaterializerX - Wanted a vote him in spitit because of claiming vanilla with no flavor and thought it had to do with discord issues.
14- wallmasterz - Expected more of him than say vanilla and run so kept his vote for now.

In case it isn't obvious, the remaining three people have said nothing yet. They also haven't been around except that JC came in and said he will catch up.

Don't think this turned out to be too useful to sum up like this but there we go.

Basically I wanted to see if there was anything we could gather immediately on perspective scum/town sheep worlds based on how people reacted to his claim. Are there scum trying to be sneaky on it if he is town. Are there scum buddies trying to massage it if he is scum.

My thoughts are generally those that claim without hesitation are town though. Scum tend to be afraid of being pigeonholed so early on whereas town don't care. I wanted to hold off on saying this outright to give people time to say things without my undue influence messing things up.

##unvote: Sheep
##vote: ulti

Not joining me on a lynch day 1 but cosigning it in spirit? Smells weak to me, brother.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

I implied to Sheep that I wanted him to respond about his read on Death, but didn't ask him outright.

I think I'm going to step away and return to this later because a review of Page 1 has me thinking the opposite of what I thought going in. I still didn't like Sheep's posts and neither Dumey's, but the whole "I was gonna claim but decided not to" and "lol me too let's same time" just... Scum doesn't do that.

##Unvote: Sheep

Im halfway through topic 1 so havent seen how the full sheep thing plays out yet but Im getting stuck on the flip side of that, being just Town doesnt do that

really, nobody should do that ever

what concerns me is that Sheeps longer posts in the first half of the topic have this element of self-awareness that makes it seem like hes going Im going to do things that would be so silly that no scum would do them dohoho. Hiding in plain sight dohoho

I got that vibe primarily from his tone in his comments mostly about how his good buddy dumey was town.

idk is be so scummy that nobody could think Im scum a strat that sheep is clever enough to use? Only played with him in PSW

Ill have to finish the rest of the topic to fully form my opinion but yeah

Speaking of JC.

No specific questions since he said he was catching up

SirChris posted...

Basically I wanted to see if there was anything we could gather immediately on perspective scum/town sheep worlds based on how people reacted to his claim. Are there scum trying to be sneaky on it if he is town. Are there scum buddies trying to massage it if he is scum.

My thoughts are generally those that claim without hesitation are town though. Scum tend to be afraid of being pigeonholed so early on whereas town don't care. I wanted to hold off on saying this outright to give people time to say things without my undue influence messing things up.

##unvote: Sheep
##vote: ulti

Not joining me on a lynch day 1 but cosigning it in spirit? Smells weak to me, brother.

One note about this actually now that I pause

Sheep could know my stance on early claiming and do this as scum I suppose

I legitimately forgot Han had even voted at that time because it seemed like the conversation was covered. It seems to me like Sheep was actively talking with people, though I understand that you may have an issue with the quality of his responses, but it's not like he avoided talking about anything, and just buckled under no pressure. He responded to all inquiries made to him and was still being voted!

If Sheep is Town, then there's a very good chance that one of the people trying to maintain suspicion on Sheep here is scum. Can't lay my finger on who yet. That's what, one of Crescent/Death/Lea/Ulti/Wallmasterz? Seems like a good pool for at least one scum to hide in.

I'll kindly ask more people to weigh in on my comment that Sheep's claim does not align with what he initially said.

ctesjbuvf posted...

I'll kindly ask more people to weigh in on my comment that Sheep's claim does not align with what he initially said.

Can you pull it up for me? Phone posting atm