Board 8 > Star Trek Mafia - Topic 2: These Are The Voyages

(+) Yeah! (+)

Is actually saying very little in many words not the definition of fluff?

You just agreed it was not that, but rather forced content.

Chaeix posted...

13- UltimaterializerX - I don't really feel great about Ulti. It's almost 'too' standard Ulti? idk. I feel like I'm about to win 'things town ulti does on d1' bingo right now and it's unsettling. And there's a weird contrast between his approach right out of the gate. he goes from 'pce, see u when chris wields the hammer of justice in 48 hours' to 'dumey scum soulread' in the span of like ten posts. It could be irrelevant as scum or town Ulti might just not give a s*** but it strikes me as odd.

Chaeix posted...

4- Death - my gut is screaming death is scum i can't lie or explain or justify it. normally my gut pings him town and gives him the benefit of the doubt, that is not happening here.

Chaeix posted...

10- Sheep007 - I'm leaning Sheep as scum who is comfortable playing icarus at the moment. But not sure pressure should be applied here given he's claimed already. If he's scum and Dumey is town, then I think that adds asterisks to his second attempted soulread of Death.

Like I would have thought he would have voted sheep or Ulti over death based on these

I kind of agree that a few of the reads feel like they're saying things to say things. I'm also quite disappointed that I don't think JC ever replied to my question!

In case you come to this and wonder what I'm asking...

Chaeix posted...

If Sheep is scum and Dumey is town, then I think that Sheep throwing a second soulread/town read out on Death was likely an attempt to distance or decouple.

So to clear this up... JC, am I correct in saying you think that after I made Dumey look better to the game through my read on him, I then tried to do the same with my scumbuddy Death?

I should point out that JC at least blatantly admitted that his read on me only got some actual reasons a few posts after he settled on his list.

Make sense now? I wish I could exsplain this better.

Like it's not fluff it's more filler? It looks like he is pushing to make it look like reads rather than just sticking to what he actually has... does any of this make sense?!

ctesjbuvf posted...

That question if for both Sultan and Han btw (but I guess anyone can answer if something in it felt forced to them).

Particularly you, me, MZero, Chris, Sultan, and Wall lines.

Chaeix posted...

and it most definitely does suck that my strongest read is a gutread but

here we are

After being goaded about it.. but as I pointed out before. It looks like he does have a read for ulti and Sheep though???

I guess gut out weighing the 2 actual reads he had reasoning for??

Actually now that I see people mention it back on page2, Ulti being more active is probably a nultell because of Chris' presence being the changing factor.
Though at the very least it makes me think those two arent scum together.

I guess the vote is more my issue with JC at the moment but I also thought it seemed a bit over the top a for what could have been hey these 2 look fine and I dont like these 3 cuz xyz. Why add everyone? And he wasn't even asked to make a list it was on his own accord

Ctes - posts 51 and 52 in this topic made me go 'actually yeah that's exactly correct about sheep so far' in regards to having seller's remorse

SirChris posted...

Anyway I am tired, but one last thing.

I think the criteria for reading into people that Ulti and now Sultan is employing is deeply flawed. i won't speak for Han's original vote but having problems with lists or surface level things like people not developing strong reads early isn't beneficial for town. There's a big difference between "I don't like someone did this" and "I can see the scum motivation behind it."

To vote JC I would need someone to lay it out for me why scum JC goes after death on a gut read when death is a really good player. Why would scum JC pick a fight with death there? What's the motivation? How does scum JC benefit from doing that with a weak reason? What does it accomplish for him? Why not sheep me? Why not attack a weaker player?

Sultan and han can you both answer these questions.

Edumey - I saw you say I started a train to get a claim out of sheep. To my recollection I never asked for a claim. Slight mischaracterization don't you think?

I see what you are saying Sultan
I dont want to say too much before JC responds tho.

(This is also where I hope I didn't just forget doing something lol)

htaeD posted...

I see what you are saying Sultan
I dont want to say too much before JC responds tho.

Hello death let's have a chat. Besides jc where is your head at right now? What do you think the purpose of my vote on you was?

htaeD posted...

Actually now that I see people mention it back on page2, Ulti being more active is probably a nultell because of Chris' presence being the changing factor.

Him not having COVID should be considered the major factor I would think.

SirChris posted...

Sultan and han can you both answer these questions.

Honestly, they're not compelling questions.

Death isn't seem as strong enough a player to fear poking at (and he's not the guy who strikes back). If you're Town, sheepinf could be rightfully seen as sheeping you. Motivation could be that Sheep or Ulti is a Scummate and he wants to push attention elsewhere while keeping his business option voiced.

And he benefits from doing it for a weak reason because, in a game where multiple people have said Death is an easy read, Death has not been easily read. Ergo, there's a vacuum and a supposed excuse.

SirChris posted...

Hello death let's have a chat. Besides jc where is your head at right now? What do you think the purpose of my vote on you was?

Besides goofing around I could presume you wanted to gauge my reaction and/or motivate me.

Getting my head into a certain direction is difficult for me right now tho since I am at work and dont have a full overview of posts yet. You will have to wait a few hours.
I will say I already think EDumey is still a suspect and I wanted to look into Ulti. Probably Ctes as well.
And JC but that maybe bias influencing it partially.

Sheep007 posted...

I have gleaned surprisingly little from what I missed overnight beyond kinda liking MZero's posts on Dumey, and finding pretty much all of Wall's posts worthwhile.

I will also say that I kinda like Wall leaving their vote to stew? It doesn't feel whatsoever like lazily leaving their vote on me - they keep bringing it up to remind everyone that I exist, and I think that's very pro-town behaviour, both for creating pressure and because Scum could just safely slink off me at this point

Is this what you actively think, Wall, or is just an option that you're considering in your head?

you trying to cling on to me? >_>

Bad pun aside, its somewhere between what I actively think and an option Im considering. Even having read just the one game (Paper Mario), I saw ulti march to the beat of his own drum pretty much nonstop. If I was sold on scum ulti my vote would be on ulti. As it stands I agree with Han calling him out for the low hanging fruit approach. Theres no doubt playing your cards close to your chest and quietly observing is a valid town approach to d1, but we have to determine when its personality/gameplay style and when its a conscious effort by scum to fly as under the radar as possible without drawing suspicion. Either way I think ulti is deliberately not providing meaningful reads on anyone and Im not sure how to feel about it. I dont get ulti, but that doesnt mean hes scum. I dont get most (all?) people here because Im new.

I would argue I do strike back, Han!
I am just not seen as all that threatening, that much I agree.

That said, I dont think the threat would come from me but from players who see me as town and would lash out for me?

Okay so I guess Chris is argument is more so bad town play and not scum play.

Why would scum JC pick a fight with death there?
Answer: Jc wants to pick someone to make him look good having a gut read on. Death sounds more appealing that saying a gut read in BCT. And what fight there is hasn't been really a fight to it?

What's the motivation?
answer: to look like he is doing something productive and look like he is trying to solve the game.

How does scum JC benefit from doing that with a weak reason?

Answer: Why would anyone do this? Why didn't he go after Sheep or Ulti if he was town? Role of 3?? Doesn't want to go after one of the team mates. I guess he could to after the other. Maybe He truely has nothing at all and pulled something out of his hat.

What does it accomplish for him?
Answer: to look town

Why not sheep me?
Answer: he litterally said he has fear of you and that be and doesn't want to get caught by following you. Beacuse you know you're like Mafia God of B8.

Why not attack a weaker player?

Answer: like I said it's more appealing that saying oh I got this big soul read on someone weak. That isn't as appealing as I got a soul read on a food player like Death.

I will also say that in my experience scum is more content to let town pick fights with me

Looking at you scumHan from2 games ago.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Him not having COVID should be considered the major factor I would think.

Honestly, they're not compelling questions.

Death isn't seem as strong enough a player to fear poking at (and he's not the guy who strikes back). If you're Town, sheepinf could be rightfully seen as sheeping you. Motivation could be that Sheep or Ulti is a Scummate and he wants to push attention elsewhere while keeping his business option voiced.

And he benefits from doing it for a weak reason because, in a game where multiple people have said Death is an easy read, Death has not been easily read. Ergo, there's a vacuum and a supposed excuse.

Not compelling questions huh

I feel like you are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole atm. For one several people hopped onto sheep and no one has cared about that so I don't see why scum jc would be afraid to do that unless as you say specifically those other wagons are scum buddies for jc

Secondly how often do you catch scum in this method, han? I think ulti has referenced list catching from you before but this is reminding me s lot of very recent games for me where people don't look for scum motives very carefully and instead try to punish lax play.

It would be just so dumb to me if jc as scum had perfectly cogent arguments against two others then went lol Death vote. Felt genuine to me and I hopped on to see how it played out.

htaeD posted...

Besides goofing around I could presume you wanted to gauge my reaction and/or motivate me.

Getting my head into a certain direction is difficult for me right now tho since I am at work and dont have a full overview of posts yet. You will have to wait a few hours.
I will say I already think EDumey is still a suspect and I wanted to look into Ulti. Probably Ctes as well.
And JC but that maybe bias influencing it partially.

Yeah. You don't seem worried at all which iirc is much more town for you than scum. You tend to panic from memory.

##unvote: death

I will say edumey seeming to be the only person to question me today makes me think that is town. The lack of scrutiny makes me feel old

SirChris posted...

I will say edumey seeming to be the only person to question me today makes me think that is town. The lack of scrutiny makes me feel old

To be fair I am starting to get a bit of the God Father coming our if you. Pushing your agenda. But not as strong as other games when you were scum and I should have kept pushing the peddle.

The Chris fear around these parts is real.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

To be fair I am starting to get a bit of the God Father coming our if you. Pushing your agenda. But not as strong as other games when you were scum and I should have kept pushing the peddle.

The Chris fear around these parts is real.

What's my agenda?

SirChris posted...

What's my agenda?

Like a bit of that my way or the highway play you pull out. Does that make sense. It's a bit more layed back but from earlier you have 2 hours to follow me with out looking like scum thing was a bit of that.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Here's a question: why do you think Scum would say "hey I thought about claiming post 1 but I decided not to"?

Well to state the obvious, theres a risk/reward aspect to doing something not congruent with scum behavior. Wifom and what not. Sheep took a fair bit of heat, probably more than he expected, but by maintaining his composure everyone other than me mostly or entirely backed down for the time being.

its also a nonsensical thing to do right out of the gate as town, imo. So why would either alignment do it? Seems odd to say why would scum do this and not consider the fact you answered your own question by asking it.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Like a bit of that my way or the highway play you pull out. Does that make sense. It's a bit more layed back but from earlier you have 2 hours to follow me with out looking like scum thing was a bit of that.

Sultan do you have any memories of my town games?

SirChris posted...

Sultan do you have any memories of my town games?

Yeah youre usually less bossy and more suggestive.

wallmasterz posted...

Well to state the obvious, theres a risk/reward aspect to doing something not congruent with scum behavior. Wifom and what not. Sheep took a fair bit of heat, probably more than he expected, but by maintaining his composure everyone other than me mostly or entirely backed down for the time being.

its also a nonsensical thing to do right out of the gate as town, imo. So why would either alignment do it? Seems odd to say why would scum do this and not consider the fact you answered your own question by asking it.

This isn't the same question. Town don't need to be as motivated as scum do in their actions. Often town will do things just because they feel like doing it. Asking for scum motivation is much more important because it leads to a motive

(The answer is saying that fakes town whimsicalness and I know friend of the game Ben has done this as scum)

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Yeah youre usually less bossy and more suggestive.

Sultan I don't think I know a single person across any community I have ever played in would describe my play as either alignment as non bossy.

This is unsurprising I suppose given I don't think you have a solid read on my play, but still.

wallmasterz posted...

its also a nonsensical thing to do right out of the gate as town, imo. So why would either alignment do it? Seems odd to say why would scum do this and not consider the fact you answered your own question by asking it.

Town do nonsensical things more.

SirChris posted...

Not compelling questions huh

Maybe one of them felt worthwhile.

I feel like you are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole atm. For one several people hopped onto sheep and no one has cared about that so I don't see why scum jc would be afraid to do that unless as you say specifically those other wagons are scum buddies for jc

I mean, JC could be content to just put a vote on Sheep who has already cut off wasting time with his claim, and then do fuck all for the rest of the day. Seems really transparent though.

Secondly how often do you catch scum in this method, han? I think ulti has referenced list catching from you before but this is reminding me s lot of very recent games for me where people don't look for scum motives very carefully and instead try to punish lax play.

5 times, Ulti is always paying me lip service without ever having any backing in truth so he should be ignored wrt me, and this isn't punishing lax play. It's not even close to that. I'm not sure why you're trying to shove a Mario shaped peg into this game of Yahtzee.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Town do nonsensical things more.

Maybe one of them felt worthwhile.

I mean, JC could be content to just put a vote on Sheep who has already cut off wasting time with his claim, and then do fuck all for the rest of the day. Seems really transparent though.

5 times, Ulti is always paying me lip service without ever having any backing in truth so he should be ignored wrt me, and this isn't punishing lax play. It's not even close to that. I'm not sure why you're trying to shove a Mario shaped peg into this game of Yahtzee.

Okay then walk me through it. Why do you think scum jc gave good reasons to vote others but went with a gut vote. You arent like others in this game you can think on a higher level. Walk me through it.

He didn't give good reasons to vote others.

Excepting perhaps Sheep, but again, sticking on Sheep when everyone else looks elsewhere draws a spotlight on him.

His read of Ulti very clearly states that his thoughts could be irrelevant.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

He didn't give good reasons to vote others.

Excepting perhaps Sheep, but again, sticking on Sheep when everyone else looks elsewhere draws a spotlight on him.

His read of Ulti very clearly states that his thoughts could be irrelevant.

Okay let me clarify

"Better than lol gut"

SirChris posted...

I will say edumey seeming to be the only person to question me today makes me think that is town. The lack of scrutiny makes me feel old

This does remind me
You probably already said this, but what did you think about how the whole Sheep stuff played out?

htaeD posted...

This does remind me
You probably already said this, but what did you think about how the whole Sheep stuff played out?

I found the panic claim from sheep to be uncharacteristic of previous scum play. I found no obvious buddies trying to come to his rescue post claim from the list ctes gathered although iirc speaking of potential pairings jc was one of the people who hadn't commented at that time.

I think if it turns out sheep is scum then his wagon at that point is pure.

As for sheep himself I haven't read over night closely yet and I saw he posted some. I don't really like any of his early play but it also messes with me that sheep is just blatantly admitting that my read is on point to being close to a previous scum game.

Enough doubt to give sheep a chance to settle in more as he is very good as town when he isn't mislynching doctors.

I think this 'why would scum do this' angle only works on a case by case basis.
Ben for instance absolutely is the kind of guy who'd softclaim in his first post as scum.

With EDumey I just cant tell if thats within his scumballpark.

SirChris posted...

Okay let me clarify

"Better than lol gut"

Gut's a great reason to vote someone :)

I guess if I wanted to respond to you here in a way that's productive, I would ask "who else?"

Frankly, I'm seeing him linked to Ulti atm, so that would be a reason to not vote Ulti. You've already stated that Sheep is an acceptable Vanilla to off at end of day, so further pushing right now is at best performative.

He ended up giving a both sides answer for Ctes, nothing for me, appeasement for you, the same 'wall is fine but maybe not tomorrow!' as Ulti... I would just say that Death is an easier person to go after than some people who would start a fight, or would be seen as low hanging fruit

As I understand it, Dumey has been scum a lot recently so I could see him pulling a potential "screw it" gambit, especially after he seemed a bit frustrated with how things went the last game

SirChris posted...

Sultan I don't think I know a single person across any community I have ever played in would describe my play as either alignment as non bossy.

This is unsurprising I suppose given I don't think you have a solid read on my play, but still.

Idk man I've definitely seen you be kinda bossyish as scum in the past but maybe that was also very early on days where I was terrified of you as either alignment. Lol

Oh as non bossy. Nvm idk I just remember some games you being super nice about it and being like he look at this and less like vote now!

I am now wondering why Ulti just didnt ask townpower to scan Chris.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Gut's a great reason to vote someone :)

I guess if I wanted to respond to you here in a way that's productive, I would ask "who else?"

Frankly, I'm seeing him linked to Ulti atm, so that would be a reason to not vote Ulti. You've already stated that Sheep is an acceptable Vanilla to off at end of day, so further pushing right now is at best performative.

He ended up giving a both sides answer for Ctes, nothing for me, appeasement for you, the same 'wall is fine but maybe not tomorrow!' as Ulti... I would just say that Death is an easier person to go after than some people who would start a fight, or would be seen as low hanging fruit

Who else huh

Hm. Let me ponder that some.

But I think im also getting myself distracted here I don't have enough to follow that gut feeling and the gut feeling is very very minor atm. But Chris brought it up.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Oh as non bossy. Nvm idk I just remember some games you being super nice about it and being like he look at this and less like vote now!

I have been perfectly patient this game. In fact I see my questions cited a lot in terms of people trying to solve! I was just being nice letting people get free bus credit if Sheep is scum

UltimaterializerX posted...

Man are the people who think Im scummy going to feel silly tomorrow lmao

Scum should TOTALLY roleblock and shoot me tonight btw. Itll be even funnier!

I got a soul read from this post

ulti has a soul confirmed

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Also, Ulti hopping on JC with me feels bussy. In particular of worry about Ulti here is that he has said the following:

"Wall if it's day 2"
"If Wall wasn't around, I'd circle BCT"

Holy low hanging fruit, Batman

This might be pointless, but I would like Ulti to respond to this.