Board 8 > Paper Mario Mafia Topic 6 - PS Time to Recycle Paper Mario Jokes

(+) Yeah! (+)

Alive (14):
Ben
Cody
Ctes
Death
Dumey
Han
Hb
JC
Kirby
Peaf
Plum
Red
Sultan
Ulti

Shredded:
LD1: Isquen Eldstar, TOWN Vanilla
KN1: Lea Bombette, TOWN Bomb
KN1: SBell - Koopa Bros., KOOPA TROOP Ninjas

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day ends at 9:00 P.M. Eastern (or 2.5 hours from now).

Votals shortly

That's a good point that you made, Kirby.

But for someone to agree with it, they'd have to think there was a purpose to the stars being gathered or whatever. Which Ulti obviously does.

Fuck, I need to get going soon. Death voting for hb is really breaking my brain here. We didn't see much bussing out of him at all last game after he was recruited.

Votals:

Ben [2] - (Sultan), Kirby, Plum, (Ulti), (Dumey)
Han [2] - JC, Ulti
Kirby [1] - Dumey
Hb [1] - Death
Ulti [1] - Sultan
JC [1] (Han), (Peaf), ctes
Dumey [1] - (Ulti), Han
Sultan [0] (Plum), (Ulti), (Ulti)
Death [0] - (Peaf), (Dumey)

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day ends at 9:00 P.M. Eastern (or 2.5 hours from now).

Seems to mostly match up with Death's unofficial ones I did not notice until I did these so should be safe (I tallied off of MZero's post)

Peaf were you considering HB just because you didn't have better options, or because you genuinely think you've found something scummy in his behavior?

I was about to say it was suspicious how many people jumped off of JC without him from so little but apparently we were only three votes.

New topic really killed the momentum of the discussion huh

To be fair, I have listed JC as one of my suspects most of the day, and also took part in questioning JC earlier with Han. I just didn't have a vote on him during that.

Well that didn't go well at all. Ugh

What did I miss

Oh geeze what the hell are these votals

UltimaterializerX posted...

Ben claiming a conditional flavor scanner, as scum, based on one flip is asinine. Peaf has the situation correct.

Forget flavor meta. Look at behavior. There is no scum equity in such a blatant look-at-me fake claim. Its like me thinking Justin was scum recruiter like a doofus because he claimed he would die on day four.

Occulams Razor. Ben is just telling the truth here I think.

My Occulam's Razor says that Ben goes for the crazy role claims when he's forced to claim as scum :P

I remember in Yu-Gi-Oh Mafia when Hb got a guilty scan on Ben. None of us were prepared for it, and Ben was saying he couldn't be there to defend himself because of work. So what did he do? Claimed Watcher as a defense and then left.

He didn't consult us to make sure the claim looked good and didn't have contradictions (it was very contradictory and ended up sealing his fate further). I told him he could have claimed vanilla. He didn't and claimed power to seem more convincing.

Ben makes botched flavor claims all the time when his back is against the wall.

This has nothing to do with flavor meta. Frankly, I don't buy this "sealed Star Spirit powers" nonsense that Ben started.

I am looking at this as "everything Ben has claimed has very conveniently lined up to make himself appear as town, to an uncanny degree, and this reminds me more of wolf-is-cornered Ben than genuine town Ben."

The scum equity for "such a blatant look-at-me fake claim" is to get people off his back lest he gets mislynched. There is absolutely scum equity from a desperation claim if the worst that happens is that their goose gets cooked anyway.

Ben had the choice to either claim and possibly weasel his way out, or he could not claim and die.

EDumey posted...

Peaf were you considering HB just because you didn't have better options, or because you genuinely think you've found something scummy in his behavior?

His end of day 1 was not great, and his presence today has felt phony. I can't really point to any one thing, and it's just been a slight lean on the side of my head.

But yes, also the first thing. No one cares to really look at death, perhaps because i didn't make much of a case and missed the opportunity while it was hot earlier. I'm still suspicious of you but I'm not prepared to push that myself. So yeah.

Was Ben actually put into a position where he was forced to claim, before he mentioned that if he were going to claim he wanted to go after JC? Maybe that just strengthens your argument in your eyes due to intent, but I feel like Ben could have just shown up and started posting, and people would have gotten off his back. He wasn't in claim or die territory until he put himself there.

Ben's role is actually kinda risky for scum to claim, because if it's completely made up he instantly dies if he says someone is a Star Spirit who isn't or vice versa. The power at the very least has to be real.

That has never stopped Ben.

He claimed Watcher as scum in Yu-Gi-Oh Mafia and you eviscerated him, Hb!

But fair, Ben wasn't in any real danger until he tried to back out of claiming once JC revealed he was power.

Right but Kirby is arguing this is a crazy role claim with no basis in reality from someone who was desperate and that doesn't really fit here imo

HanOfTheNekos posted...

If Mario enables Star Spirits, then it could be beneficial for Scum to find them, to deny Mario from getting them.

I just don't buy this. We have had multiple star spirit vanillas right? Helping scum kill vanilla's seems absolutely counterintuitive.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

##Vote:Ulti

I don't think lynching Ben is very pragmatic. We are doing pretty well so lynching a claimed scanner isn't a smart play. I think it will sort itself out

##Unvote
##Vote:Sultan

I'm going back to sultan. I think Ulti is town after that attack on me and I've thought Sultan has been scum this entire game. That vote on Ulti is terrible.

hb has been real quiet today but every time I go poking around in day 1 I feel pretty good about having him in my town pile. Probably not going in that direction, death.

Plum has been trying to get me mislynched all game

So the thought there is that sbell covered THAT HARD for Sultan on day 1 to protect a scum mate that was only being very slightly suspected? And it wasn't just a pocket attempt after all? Is that the thought, Plum?

Kirby321 posted...

That has never stopped Ben.

He claimed Watcher as scum in Yu-Gi-Oh Mafia and you eviscerated him, Hb!

But fair, Ben wasn't in any real danger until he tried to back out of claiming once JC revealed he was power.

Do you think this is a comparable level of danger to "the cop has scanned you scum" for Ben?

Also simple sort of the game right now to me.

(Probable scum here)
Ctes
Death
Dumey
Kirby
Sultan

(Cant be scum together. If so good fine gg)
Han
JC

(Linked fairly hard now)
Ben
Ulti

-comfortable town line-
Hb

Cody

Peaf
Plum

UltimaterializerX posted...

Were not doing Sultan, Plum. Disallowed.

Boo

I remember Han saying something I didn't like but I need to review his posts again before I want to go there.

Oh yeah it was the opening wall.

So I guess my question is if Han is scum does he really post that wall saying Sbell is town?

I am considering joining you on Sultan, Plum. I've got some stuff to get to now but I'm checking in.

Oh I'm still on ulti I was seeing if I would get a reaction but git nothing

##unvote

The reason I scanned JC is because I was aiming for someone who

1. I thought could live till endgame (Provided they're not DOOMED again lol)
2. Who i had no real read on, and who I think other people are generally pretty bad or slow to develop a read on as well.

Cody was out, because I had town confirmed Cody on day 1. I was hoping to hit someone who WAS a star spirit so I could confirm them town, so I avoided scanning my scummier leans (Hb and Ulti at the time). JC is a person whose player slot my brain often skips over too, so that was another reason.

Hbthebattle posted...

Do you think this is a comparable level of danger to "the cop has scanned you scum" for Ben?

Well, no. Not until he put himself in hot water.

I'm a little bothered that everyone else is defending Ben and he hasn't said a word since his claim.

But also... if Ben is telling the truth, he is very much a useless scanner now. His only niche is dismantling scum fake claims, but that niche is no longer there since scum can just avoid claiming Star Spirits.

Suffice to say, I'm going to be salty if Ben walks free and then we end up specialing a better power role. I don't think there's any risk in lynching Ben.

Well that's what I get for not refreshing the page

It was a big F up on my part to start diving into role talk when I did, especially with hindsight of knowing how wild work was about to get today. I just saw someone say that me and JC should claim, and I wanted to get that out there. A sametime would have better, that's really what I meant to say, so that way I could prove my own info too. That's why first I said before and then I said after. I wanted same time, but my brain couldn't get there.

*I* really didnt want to claim today unless I had to, which is why I said nothing about JC. Because the scan on him only tells us he's not a star spirit. He could still be anything. But people who commit to power claims this early are often town, which is why once he said that he was power I didnt want him to claim further, even if I knew his flavor. He would have had plenty of time to say his flavor later, and if he is planning to lie about it it wouldnt have changed whether he claimed it now or later.

Kirby321 posted...

But also... if Ben is telling the truth, he is very much a useless scanner now. His only niche is dismantling scum fake claims, but that niche is no longer there since scum can just avoid claiming Star Spirits.

Can't we assume if someone is a star, that's as good as them being confirmed town?

Hbthebattle posted...

Can't we assume if someone is a star, that's as good as them being confirmed town?

Yes, but town isn't going to lie about their flavor without a good reason. I don't understand why they can't just claim themselves as a Star Spirit. Scum can't do that without risking being caught in a lie.

Wait hold on...

... Okay I see what you mean. I can't argue against that. If someone claims they're a Star Spirit, then Ben can verify it.

I... hate how incredibly niche such a role is, but I can't deny that plausibility.

... Fine. I'll believe Ben for now. But I expect Ben to actually get us some confirmed town.

##Unvote

Although it STILL bothers me that Sbell's role says "any" flavor scanner.

Like... does Ben's role not count as a flavor scanner? Someone has yet to give me a good answer to that.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Its because Ben is town. If he wasnt, someone would have counter claimed him and killed him by now.

That is... not an answer to my question

Kirby321 posted...

Although it STILL bothers me that Sbell's role says "any" flavor scanner.

Counterpoint to this, if it said "the" flavor scanner that would be way more revealing. Any could mean one, or multiple exist.

Beacuse he gets a yes or no answer he would just get a no not a star

Kirby321 posted...

Although it STILL bothers me that Sbell's role says "any" flavor scanner.

Like... does Ben's role not count as a flavor scanner? Someone has yet to give me a good answer to that.

I don't like it on its own but Ulti is claiming something that helps verify its existence. I'm not sure I think Ulti has it in him to gamble with roles like that so my mind has settled on accepting it.

UltimaterializerX posted...

He could in theory scan me to prove it, but thats a waste. Id like to think Im an easy town read and that SBells flip confirms him, so Id rather he just scan other people. Teamwork makes the dream work and all that.

If youre Town, couldnt he just always say Ulti is a star spirit. I forget, does his ability tell which Star Spirit you are?

UltimaterializerX posted...

Oh.

Bens role counts as a flavor scanner, yes.

So if Ben's role is a flavor scanner... that contradicts what Sbell's role PM says about that additional flavor text appearing for any flavor scanner.

Last I recall, Ben's role is just a simple yes/no. Doesn't say anything else about the target's flavor like Sbell's PM explicitly says.