Poll of the Day > Can somebody explain the Biden documents drama to me?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I'm out of the loop.

Based on what little I've read:

• Some classified documents from Biden's tenure as vice president were found in an office space he had used in the years leading up to his presidential run
• When his attorneys found the documents, they contacted the National Archives to return them
• House republicans are now pushing for a full investigation, probably to take heat off of Trump for all those documents he was caught holding on to.

They found a bunch of classified documents in an old office he used shortly after his term as vice president. Essentially the same thing everyone lost their shit over with Trump. If you can't tell, the media is treating this story just a bit differently.

Doesn't matter does it? Either way Republicans will make up some bizarre questionably legitimate story abotu how these documents prove Biden is a crook pedo psycopath sent by Satan to corrupt the great country of the United states, y'know, the same thing they accuse all Democrats of.

funkyfritter posted...

Based on what little I've read:
* Some classified documents from Biden's tenure as vice president were found in an office space he had used in the years leading up to his presidential run
* When his attorneys found the documents, they contacted the National Archives to return them
* House republicans are now pushing for a full investigation, probably to take heat off of Trump for all those documents he was caught holding on to.

What is "office space" exactly? Was it like a private office of his? Why were people going through his old documents in the first place?

It was a private office he was reportedly using between 2017 and 2020. The documents were discovered while his attorneys were packing up files because the office was being vacated.

It's just the general traitors can't tell the difference between normal and crimes. Despite claiming to be the party of law and order *rolls eyes*

BlackScythe0 posted...

It's just the general traitors can't tell the difference between normal and crimes. Despite claiming to be the party of law and order *rolls eyes*

Its normal for any politician to take classified files?

Revelation34 posted...

Its normal for any politician to take classified files?

Depends on the level of classification...

BlackScythe0 posted...

Depends on the level of classification...

Why do you think that?

ZangsBeard posted...

Why do you think that?

Think what? That they need documents to do their job? That some documents can be carried and others can only be viewed in specific secure facilities? You mean why do I think reality?

I remember seeing a video talk about document laws, they gave examples of people who had been successfully convicted as a guy who had a job to shred documents for the air force, he wanted to go home so he just threw them in a dumpster. Kid found them when he was playing in the dumpster and when the dad found said documents while cleaning kids room he called the base.

The other example was a dude who took some documents with him when he went to meet his friend decided to put them in his friends desk at the friends job and they went on a weekend trip. Friend didn't have a desk to himself and when the other guy who used that desk found them on monday called the base.

In order for this to be a crime he needs to have done something intentionally wrong with the documents and the most "obvious" wrong thing here was if the documents weren't supposed to be removed in the first place.

BlackScythe0 posted...

Think what? That they need documents to do their job? That some documents can be carried and others can only be viewed in specific secure facilities? You mean why do I think reality?

I remember seeing a video talk about document laws, they gave examples of people who had been successfully convicted as a guy who had a job to shred documents for the air force, he wanted to go home so he just threw them in a dumpster. Kid found them when he was playing in the dumpster and when the dad found said documents while cleaning kids room he called the base.

The other example was a dude who took some documents with him when he went to meet his friend decided to put them in his friends desk at the friends job and they went on a weekend trip. Friend didn't have a desk to himself and when the other guy who used that desk found them on monday called the base.

In order for this to be a crime he needs to have done something intentionally wrong with the documents and the most "obvious" wrong thing here was if the documents weren't supposed to be removed in the first place.

How in the remote fuck do you think any of that is an answer to my very direct question to a very simple statement?

ZangsBeard posted...

How in the remote fuck do you think any of that is an answer to my very direct question to a very simple statement?

How do you think your question made sense?

BlackScythe0 posted...

How do you think your question made sense?

So you cant answer a simple question to defend your statement. Got it.

Non-issue just like with the Trump documents.
Media is just fearmongering like they always do.

Judgmenl posted...

Non-issue just like with the Trump documents.

Not exactly. The Trump docs would've been a non-issue had he not tried to hide them, lied about having them, fought returning them, etc.

Both Biden and Trump should be investigated for any potential breach of national security over the act of simply having classified documents they weren't supposed to have/were supposed to return, but Trump's actions after it was discovered he'd had classified documents are much more egregious

The key difference is that trump after being repeatedly asked to return classified documents he had in his possession, he repeatedly refused, then claimed not to have any then refused again. Thus negating any doubt about this being a simple accident.

Bidens team on the other hand found classified documents and immediately and voluntary turned them over.

had trump either voluntarily turned over his sets of classified documents or at least returned them when first asked for well over a year ago, then this would have been the same.

they are being treated diff because it is different and their respective conduct speaks to their intentions no matter how much trump supporters want to try to spin it.

Ozmose posted...

They found a bunch of classified documents in an old office he used shortly after his term as vice president. Essentially the same thing everyone lost their shit over with Trump. If you can't tell, the media is treating this story just a bit differently.

well if nothing actually happened to Trump and hes still trying to run for president in the next race, im guessing nothing should happen to Biden either

Amazing how dumb these MAGA Let's Go Brandon morons are sometimes

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/8/7/AAZslrAAEFFL.jpg

Far-Queue posted...

Amazing how dumb these MAGA Let's Go Brandon morons are sometimes

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/8/7/AAZslrAAEFFL.jpg

Not to mention when he left office he both turned over everything he thought he had, and asked if anything was missing and was told no. Then upon the discovery of the items immediately turned them over, AND and investigation was automatically opened.

Or... Trump hiding documents, literally moving them room to room to prevent them from being found, lying about having them, given a multitude of chances to just turn them over

But you know LITERALLY THE EXACT SAME CIRCUMSTANCES.

The followers of one would be toupeed god are so fucking stupid sometimes...

I guess they should have better transitioning methods then. It's happened to two presidents.

BigOlePappy posted...

I guess they should have better transitioning methods then. It's happened to two presidents.

What has happened to two presidents?

BlackScythe0 posted...

What has happened to two presidents?

Not all of their documents were returned. For whatever reason they didn't do it correctly.

I'm sure it's happened to other presidents in the past and will happen to more in the future. You'd think with the staff they have that someone would be on top of that but then again this is the government we're talking about.

They just need to catalog the distribution of sensitive materials and run an audit every month or so. Shouldn't be that difficult to implement tbh but again this is the government we're talking about

BigOlePappy posted...

Not all of their documents were returned. For whatever reason they didn't do it correctly.

Are you suggesting this is the same as Trump?

BigOlePappy posted...

Not all of their documents were returned. For whatever reason they didn't do it correctly.

The situation with Trump isn't accidental. With Biden it appears to be an issue of accidentally not returning the docs, finding them and immediately returning them.

Trump specifically stole the docs, hid them and obfuscated investigations regarding them. It's really not the same.

The difference is once the documents were discovered they were returned immediately, and Biden didn't sell them to hostile foreign powers like we know Trump did. But, right, exact same thing. /s

Its only yahoo (didnt check original appearance) but quotes lawyer experts who say this kind of thing Happens more than you woild think which is scary.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/why-the-biden-documents-discovery-is-different-from-trumps-mar-a-lago-case-233119531.html

ZangsBeard posted...

So you cant answer a simple question to defend your statement. Got it.

Why do I need to defend it? Dude asked if it's normal for people to take documents related to their job. Yes it is, it just depends on the classification as to whether they can actually take it out of specific locations or not. Taking documents they are allowed to for their job isn't a crime, intentionally mishandling them is.

What more could you possibly want? What does "Why do you think that" even mean?

Conner4REAL posted...

Its only yahoo (didnt check original appearance) but quotes lawyer experts who say this kind of thing Happens more than you woild think which is scary.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/why-the-biden-documents-discovery-is-different-from-trumps-mar-a-lago-case-233119531.html

It's only scary because we elect bad faith actors to high ranking office. This has previously seemingly not been an issue that has negatively affected our political atmosphere until Trump stole and sold docs.

BlackScythe0 posted...

Why do I need to defend it? Dude asked if it's normal for people to take documents related to their job. Yes it is, it just depends on the classification as to whether they can actually take it out of specific locations or not. Taking documents they are allowed to for their job isn't a crime, intentionally mishandling them is.

What more could you possibly want? What does "Why do you think that" even mean?

Lol thats a lot of words to say absolutely nothing. I literally only wanted to know if you had any actual reason to believe that statement and the basis for it. For my own personal edification.

You of course felt like taking off a diaper and wiping it across the walls with wide eyes of amazement was a better response.

Which I love how you yet again dont actually answer the very simple and pointed question I asked.

BlackScythe0 posted...

Depends on the level of classification...

This was literally all I was questioning. I was simply curious. Youve yet to actually answer why the level of classification matters, instead choosing to vomit in your shoes, stomp around in them, and yell See! Like youve actually answered anything.

Feel free to not respond, as youve shown yourself utterly incapable of following a single sentence question, let alone a complex conversation about how you couldnt answer a simple question.

Conner4REAL posted...

Its only yahoo (didnt check original appearance) but quotes lawyer experts who say this kind of thing Happens more than you woild think which is scary.

Wasn't the nuclear football left on a train once?

Conner4REAL posted...

Its only yahoo (didnt check original appearance) but quotes lawyer experts who say this kind of thing Happens more than you woild think which is scary.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/why-the-biden-documents-discovery-is-different-from-trumps-mar-a-lago-case-233119531.html

Its amazing how clueless the Trumpers are in the comments. The difference has been explained and all they can do is spew herp derp, Bidens a democrat so thats why its ok. Even though one cooperated and did the right thing and the other lied about it until he was forced to give them back.

Also amazing how some still believe that the election was rigged. XD

ZangsBeard posted...

Lol thats a lot of words to say absolutely nothing. I literally only wanted to know if you had any actual reason to believe that statement and the basis for it. For my own personal edification.

You of course felt like taking off a diaper and wiping it across the walls with wide eyes of amazement was a better response.

Which I love how you yet again dont actually answer the very simple and pointed question I asked.

This was literally all I was questioning. I was simply curious. Youve yet to actually answer why the level of classification matters, instead choosing to vomit in your shoes, stomp around in them, and yell See! Like youve actually answered anything.

Feel free to not respond, as youve shown yourself utterly incapable of following a single sentence question, let alone a complex conversation about how you couldnt answer a simple question.

BlackScythe0 posted...

Yes it is, it just depends on the classification as to whether they can actually take it out of specific locations or not.

BlackScythe0 posted...

Think what? That they need documents to do their job? That some documents can be carried and others can only be viewed in specific secure facilities?

Any reason you're being a jerk?

BlackScythe0 posted...

Any reason you're being a jerk?

Ad hominem response. Classic.

I'm fine with Biden being investigated.
I don't think any president should be exempt from being investigated.

BlackScythe0 posted...

Are you suggesting this is the same as Trump?

What happened with Trump? I know about the drama but I didn't really follow the case.

Looks like they found more classified documents at a different location.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2023/01/11/biden-documents-second-batch/11034294002/

Lock 'im UP!

FrozenBananas posted...

well if nothing actually happened to Trump and hes still trying to run for president in the next race, im guessing nothing should happen to Biden either

Agreed. On the other end, if they're going to file charges on Trump, Biden should get the same.

Conner4REAL posted...

Bidens team on the other hand found classified documents and immediately and voluntary turned them over.

The shady part is that this all happened right before the mid terms and they kept it hushed, while the Trump document story was simultaneously being blasted across every form of media in the country.

lol

definitely a lot of whacko media conflating this and Trump. and true, looks like there're some more docs lol. but this is nooowhheeerreeeeee near the amount and they're literally giving them back asap - complete opposite of Trump who was like YO THESE ARE MINE I HAVE A RIGHT TO THEM!!!!!!!!

Conner4REAL posted...

Its only yahoo (didnt check original appearance) but quotes lawyer experts who say this kind of thing Happens more than you woild think which is scary.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/why-the-biden-documents-discovery-is-different-from-trumps-mar-a-lago-case-233119531.html

It absolutely does. One major problem is that the status of 'classified' is so broad that it encompasses a bunch of shit that isn't even really a threat. Just about every dude I know, myself included, that separated from the army drove off with "classified" documents. That's what happens when you give hundreds of thousands of troops a Secret clearance.

Don't worry, Biden declassified them with his mind. So R's should have no problems with anything here.

Ozmose posted...

Agreed. On the other end, if they're going to file charges on Trump, Biden should get the same.

The shady part is that this all happened right before the mid terms and they kept it hushed, while the Trump document story was simultaneously being blasted across every form of media in the country.

As others in this thread have mentioned, there is a large distinction between Biden's situation and Trump's.

Upon discovery, Biden's staff immediately contacted the National Archives and volunteered to return the documents. They discovered the documents themselves and self-reported, cooperated, and in the process have actively searched for more documents to turn over, which is in part how they found the second batch. Reports are quoting roughly two dozen classified documents in Biden's possession, though that figure may climb as they continue to search his properties.

The National Archives had repeatedly over the course of months asked Trump and his staff to turn over classified documents they believed to be in his possession, to which Trump went to great lengths to deny having, lie about having, move the documents to prevent their discovery, and flat-out refused to cooperate or turn the documents over. Documents which numbered in the hundreds and included nuclear secrets.

If negligence and simple possession can warrant charges, then yes. Both Biden and Trump should be treated equally and face the same level of discipline.

However, Trump and his staff's actions in their case have opened them up to a whole host of separate possible charges. Some of them very dire.

The two situations share some similarities, but are not equal to each other's.

Intent is a critical part of investigating the mishandling of classified material. A simple "oopsie!" can result in losing your clearance and possibly being terminated from your job (if it requires a clearance), but taking classified material with the intention to sell or give it to another party is a crime of the highest caliber. People have been executed for this (e.g. the Rosenbergs).

"Fun" fact: Ethel Rosenberg's execution was particularly gruesome. She was given three shocks in the electric chair, then doctors determined her heart was still beating, so she was strapped in again and given two more shocks. Eyewitnesses reported that smoke rose from her head.

Looks like the found even more at another location.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/biden-s-classified-document-headache-worsens-with-second-batch/ar-AA16eLIl?OCID=ansmsnnews11

Hes old and dumb so he left a bunch of classified shit lying around all over the place, because way too much shit is considered classified when it comes to government documents

Revelation34 posted...

Its normal for any politician to take classified files?

In BS0's mind, it's not a problem when an elected Democrat does anything. For the non-zealots, it proves what every reasonable person has known all along -- this IS a common thing and the claims about Trump's files were ginned up beyond hyperbole and were made in bad faith.

Count_Drachma posted...

In BS0's mind, it's not a problem when an elected Democrat does anything. For the non-zealots, it proves what every reasonable person has known all along -- this IS a common thing and the claims about Trump's files were ginned up beyond hyperbole and were made in bad faith.

Is recognizing that it was a far larger quantity of files and that he purposefully claimed that he could arbitrarily "declassify" them ginning it up beyond hyperbole and in bad faith? Recognizing that one is willfully relinquishing them while the other tried his hardest to keep them is in bad faith as opposed to basic observation? Biden deserves to be charged if they were mishandled. But calm down on covering Trump's ass, good lord. it took numerous formal requests, a grand jury subpoena and a court-approved search warrant to retrieve them lmfao.