Board 8 > MCU General 13 - The Holiday Special

(+) Yeah! (+)

Thunderbolts ideal lineup in my opinion:
Songbird
Other people, don't care

Give me Songbird already Marvel!

MI, you gotta have Moonstone.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Hawkeye was trash and Im tired of pretending otherwise just because some of the actors are cool.

Hawkeye is not only the best show out of D+ but also one of the top three projects of this phase. Fantastic.

skullbone posted...

I'm not too familiar with the Thunderbolts from the comics, what would the ideal line-up be in your opinion? Even including characters that haven't been introduced to the MCU yet.

Absolute must-haves for a Thunderbolts team are Baron Zemo, Moonstone, Songbird, and a young hero. I think those two are the most absolutely integral characters you need for it.

Baron Zemo because he's a brilliant, manipulative mind with the ambition and enough of a high opinion of himself to lead.

Moonstone because Zemo needs someone undercutting him the whole time from behind his back and manipulating the team to try to use it for her own end.

Songbird because she's cool as hell and fits an archtype of slowly becoming more heroic despite her history of villainy.

The young hero to be completely manipulated by not only Zemo but also Moonstone. Jolt was perfect for this, but no other young heroes come to mind. Important to be a fresh face for the public to fawn over too.

From there, I think you can add most any other villain. I'd probably try to stick with the main original team from the comics and introduce a bunch of new characters people can get attached to. Fixer, Atlas, and Mach-<insert number here>.

Abomination pre-Shu-Hulk would have been good but I don't need to see him again outside of She-Hulk now.

Ghost is a great choice for it.

A new Taskmaster closer to our boy Tony Masters instead of the crappy version we got.

You can probably make Mordo work.

Yellowjacket works still but spoilers.

Vulture or Mysterio could fit too.

Justin Hammer would be a fun addition--could probably be the Fixer replacement if you want to go that route.

I mean I think it works better with unknowns if you want to go more for the villains pretending to be heroes, but existing ones work well if you're just looking to put together a team of known villains being sort of coerced into doing stuff for the government.

Like this team of Thunderbolts just being a bunch of mercs blows and just isn't even close to being as interesting as any version of it from the comics.

I'm not even a big Hawkeye fan but that's a good show

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Vulture or Mysterio could fit too.

Isn't Mysterio like 100% dead

Johnbobb posted...

Isn't Mysterio like 100% dead

Even if he was intended to be, it's not like it's hard for him to fake it somehow.

scarletspeed7 posted...

MI, you gotta have Moonstone.

This is actually a good point she would be my #2

Johnbobb posted...

Isn't Mysterio like 100% dead

Its Mysterio it easily could have been an illusion.

If anyone has an interest in Thunderbolts or what could have been, I do highly recommend reading the original Thunderbolts comics run. I love that Kurt Busiek run of that book so much.

Thanks for the write-up! Yeah the MCU Thunderbolts roster definitely seems too hero focused.

If I'm honest, it seems like it's going with the, unfortunately mediocre, Charles Soule run which was very merc centric as well. I do love Charles Soule's other work so this was disappointing. It had:

Red Hulk
Deadpool
Elektra
Punisher
Ghost Rider
Agent Venom
Some other lame character made up for the series
Leader

And it just... wasn't that fun.

Warren Ellis has a great run of Thunderbolts too with Norman Osborn at the helm that led to one of the most major shake-ups in Marvel comics history.

It's a goddamn comic book show/movie!

I totally get that if you're not invested/enjoying yourself that it's easy to notice all the plot issues. Suspension of disbelief can be a wonderful thing. But...these are NEVER going to make 100% logical sense.

Yeah, you gotta just not think about that kind of thing really. I mean look at Thor Love & Thunder where Gorr believed Gods didnt care about anyone so he kidnaps all the kids so Thor will save them. Why if he believes all gods would just let normal people die because they dont care? Lol

Hawkeye carried the inspiration from Fraction's run which is one of my favorite comics ever, so I adored the Hawkeye show.

And that Thor Love & Thunder issue is actually a logic problem rather some kind of suspension of disbelief issue. That movie is just outright stupid plot-wise and contradicts itself constantly.

Hawkeye has the best story front to back. Not all of the characters are super interesting, but it doesn't really have bad characters. And the performances are great.

Leonhart4 posted...

You have made this post monthly for years. Stop it.

To be honest, the point was more that previously I thought when they accused "feminism" and "social justice" ideologies of ruining franchises I thought they just felt those franchises were getting carried away with them. Now I'm starting to realize all along it was "identity politics" they opposed from the get -go and not potentially poor execution, considering the way they talk about how franchises get "infected" with identity politics instead of simply getting carried away with it.

That's really the only justification I can think of for blaming so-called identity politics for ruining modern entertainment - that said works emphasize diversity and representation at the expense of good storytelling. I've simply thought all along that's what they meant, not realizing those people are completely opposed to diversity and representation in the first place. As a person of color myself, I find this incredibly appalling.

That's not what "stop it" means

At this point you have no reason to tell me to stop it beyond simply not wanting to hear this. Considering the direction of Phase 4 I think it's a reasonable thing to bring up, especially given it's not just a handful of YouTube "randos". You might just have crossed the line into outright cyber-bullying.

aaaaaaaand goodbye

Can vouch that no one wants to see your rants and the only people who say they do are doing it out of a cruelty you obviously can't pickup on.

LMS, the conclusions you're coming to are important, but you're bringing them up to people who know all of this already. It's the equivalent of you stepping in and saying "whoa, US involvement in third world countries decades ago led to a lot of destabilization". Like, we know. This isn't a sudden realization to any of us.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

LMS, the conclusions you're coming to are important, but you're bringing them up to people who know all of this already. It's the equivalent of you stepping in and saying "whoa, US involvement in third world countries decades ago led to a lot of destabilization". Like, we know. This isn't a sudden realization to any of us.

Not just this, but he literally repeats the exact same point at least weekly, yet always frames it as a new revelation to him.

I'm pretty sure LMS isn't seeing any of this; I'd wager Leon just blocked him.

I read some Thunderbolts comics that had Red Hulk, Punisher, Elektra, Deadpool, and Venom and it was so fucking cool. But I guess that's not really what the Thunderbolts are all about since that's a bunch of anti heroes, not a bunch of villains pretending/trying to be heroes.

I mean I wasn't going to reply until I saw the cyber-bullying claim but I don't know how many times people need to make tongue-in-cheek or outright blatant comments about your weird anti-SJW obsession until you get the hint.

If you actually think these people are clowns, as you rightly should, don't dignify them with a second thought and give their opinions any air. Or stop putting yourself in a spot to even see them. There is nothing to be gained from listening to them. It's just reactionary grifters farming outrage about shit.

But people have been saying how absurd a lot of your posts have been for a while. This isn't new, and Leon isn't a cyber-bully for making another post in a long string of posts pointing out how much you talk about this.

And I know the result of everyone saying this is going to be you posting an explanation for why you do/don't follow these anti-SJW weirdos and how you think it's important. But it's not, and never will be. They're a corner of the internet that you'll be happier not actually following. They're super easily avoidable.

CoolCly posted...

I read some Thunderbolts comics that had Red Hulk, Punisher, Elektra, Deadpool, and Venom and it was so fucking cool. But I guess that's not really what the Thunderbolts are all about since that's a bunch of anti heroes, not a bunch of villains pretending/trying to be heroes.

This is actually one of my least favorite runs, but I dropped it before it supposedly got good. Charles Soule is an extremely fun writer though and I recommend his other works. But this seems like what they're trying to base this Thunderbolts idea off of.

But yeah, this was a bad era for Thunderbolts that got away from what they were meant to be. But Jeff Parker's run was probably what started to send them really away from the concept (and was actively butchering Moonstone).

I highly recommend Thunderbolts by Kurt Busiek though! That gives you a better idea of what the original, and generally agreed upon as the best, concept. I think it's branded on most things as "Thunderbolts Classic" if that makes it easier to find.

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

I mean I wasn't going to reply until I saw the cyber-bullying claim but I don't know how many times people need to make tongue-in-cheek or outright blatant comments about your weird anti-SJW obsession until you get the hint.

If you actually think these people are clowns, as you rightly should, don't dignify them with a second thought and give their opinions any air. Or stop putting yourself in a spot to even see them. There is nothing to be gained from listening to them. It's just reactionary grifters farming outrage about shit.

But people have been saying how absurd a lot of your posts have been for a while. This isn't new, and Leon isn't a cyber-bully for making another post in a long string of posts pointing out how much you talk about this.

And I know the result of everyone saying this is going to be you posting an explanation for why you do/don't follow these anti-SJW weirdos and how you think it's important. But it's not, and never will be. They're a corner of the internet that you'll be happier not actually following. They're super easily avoidable.

The cyber-bullying label was more a knee-jerk reaction to how Leon is always on me, not necessarily labelling anyone who doesn't like my rants that way. I guess I shouldn't have put up that realization in this thread though, more I feel like such an idiot for taking this long to get it. And to be honest, I still have a hard time believing people can possibly express this kind of bigotry just when talking about works of fiction online. I've learnt to file off at least 50% of complaints against the Star Wars sequel trilogy as perpetuating racist and sexist ideologies and by this point it looks like I'll have to do the same thing for Phase 4 of the MCU. I just don't really understand how they can get so mad about "diversity and representation" where it's most likely to be seen by mainstream audiences in a Hollywood that is still predominantly white and male, and then act surprised at how bad the optics are of their statement. They must have a victim complex or something, it's the only thing that makes sense.

My fucking head hurts reading this topic sometimes

All right, I gave you a chance to read it, knowing it would accomplish nothing anyway.

See ya.

there's a point you can't just keep coming back to make the literal exact same word-for-word long-winded "revelation"

and for LMS that point was a decade ago

At the same time, there is a part of me that enjoys seeing the topic active. And a sicker part of me still that enjoys that activity to be the incensed rage of the regular as they rail against the functional equivalent of the tide going in and out.

I'm sick.

I thought there were moments of brilliance, but there was some really hamfisted, terrible writing that felt at home in a children's nativity play. I was really torn by some phenomenal work with Mantis on Earth in juxtaposition to such a tell-don't-show mentality in space.

I really loved them exploring more with Mantis ability wise. Before the special they didnt really use a whole lot of anything shes capable of

UltimaterializerX posted...

I'm just not a fan of goofy Christmas-themed stuff I guess.

Oh thank God I'm not the only one. I'm not sure I'd go as far as to call it "garbage" but then again...

Christmas specials are supposed to be corny and sentimental

holiday special is second to only WF as best phase 4 product

Leonhart4 posted...

Christmas specials are supposed to be corny and sentimental

This very much.

So I have been obsessed with Marvel Midnight Suns lately.

It's suuuuuch an amazing game. If you're a huge Marvel fan, you'll have an awesome time. It's by the folks who made the XCOM games and they have absolutely taken this and ran with it. The combat is so much fun and I didn't expect it. It's a strategy game, but uses cards. I usually immediately groan at that, but this does it so well. You make a deck for your characters and there is so much customization involved, and everything feels so fucking cool to do. They also have an awesome tutorial system that always gives you every bit of information you need as they toss something new at you.

The roster also rules. Iron Man, Doctor Strange, Spider-Man, Captain America, Wolverine, Captain Marvel are probably the most common ones you know, but they also have some others like Magik, Nico Minoru, and Robbie Reyes Ghost Rider.

There is something so cool about seeing them all rock their moves and work together though. Magik, in particular, I have the most fun with because she's all about taking command of the position of the arenas you're fighting in, which is extremely important. She has fun with portals and it's just awesome to see her just boot someone into a portal and have them pop out into an explosive. Spider-Man feels really fun to play with too as he bounces and moves around so well.

What I geek out about the most is that they pull from the comics lore a ton too, and they have so many references. Nico, for instance, takes from the Runaways comics lore rather than the TV show or anything. Captain Marvel has something closer to her comics origin. They references various things that have happened in the comics as well for other characters' stories. And they have sooo many awesome references. Ms. Marvel gets mentioned a lot. Magik is always ranting about her brother (Colossus) being overbearing and annoying. Blade talks about the various ridiculous enemies he's had to deal with. It's all a ton of fun.

And there's a relationship system so all of the characters are completely fleshed out. The folks who were a part of the Midnight Suns before take issue with the fact that the Avengers have rolled in and essentially taken over operations. Robbie just wants to chill out but has to deal with Tony Stark infringing on him and Spidey's chill shop club. Magik is struggling to connect with people because she's hurt over a bunch of drama with Scarlet Witch. They even have Tony Stark losing it at one point over something that happens. And Captain America is just written perfectly as a wizened veteran who offers tons of insight, but never oversteps.

Oh, and you mostly play as a self-avatar character who has a ton more customization in moves and appearance. It is actually really good. And you unlock more customizations for everyone else as well. And you just keep making upgrades to the base and your characters to unlock more mechanics. Like at first if you knock back someone into one of your characters, you end up hurting your teammates. But then after a few unlocks, when you can knock them into the character for a team up move where they strike their opponent as well.

It's honestly a tremendous game and I recommend you guys check it out. I've been having a complete blast playing it.

Mainly just check it out for Magik though, she's perfect in this game.

I watched some gameplay and the game looked pretty boring to me. Perhaps I'll give it another chance to convince me

I promise the gameplay is actually awesome. It feels a bit basic at first for the first couple of missions, but then you get more characters, more moves, etc. I thought I'd get bored of it but I've fallen in love with it. There's just so many options and the battles are legitimately challenging.

There was a fight with Crossbones I had to restart a few times because he just kept kicking my ass until I restarted a few times and figured out a way to take him down. He brings in new mechanics like pulling up a shield every time he's attacked, he targets the character with the least health, and he throws a grenade that explodes after x number of moves YOU make. But you can manipulate it by sending him into the blast areas of these to help out, stunning him to get another big hit in before he puts up his shield, etc. The fights just feel great, and when you start to get a strategy down for the toughest ones it feels really satisfying.

Oh and all the moves feel really flashy and great. Spider-Man's animations are outstanding. I love them to bits. Captain Marvel and Ghost Rider feel devastating with giant photon lasers, demon cars and flaming sickles ripping you or your opponent every which way. Unlocking Captain America is big because he's such a meat shield and it really feels like he's protecting the team because he has a bunch of taunt and defensive mechanics.

Like I could rant for so long about how great it is.

I was really excited for Midnight Suns until they announced a season pass adding 4 more characters. I don't replay games so I'd rather just wait until I can actually play the full game in a year or whatever.