Poll of the Day > The biggest problem I had with math in school was the fact that....

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hypnox
08/17/22 8:20:04 AM
#1:


Almost none of my teachers could ever answer the question "How is this used in the real world?". Not how I personally would use it, but just generally how it would be used in the real world and it bugged me. Every other subject the teacher could give examples of how this was used or would be applied in some peoples careers. But advance math? I think ONE teacher answered it on one specific formula. And honestly that annoyed me, I mean why teach something if you don't know how to apply it.

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#2
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hypnox
08/17/22 8:30:15 AM
#3:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Not really a failure on my part. Its their job to teach me it, if they don't know what its applied to themselves means that maybe it should have been taught.

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ParanoidObsessive
08/17/22 8:47:14 AM
#5:


Your mistake was assuming that school is actually supposed to have any real world value.

It's mainly just to keep the little shits off the streets for 12 years (give or take), now that we've made it unacceptable to just send them to work in the factories.

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hypnox
08/17/22 9:02:27 AM
#6:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


I never once said I am bad at math.

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adjl
08/17/22 10:01:30 AM
#7:


That's because math past basic algebra (that is, the concept of being able to plug numbers into a formula and some basic equation manipulation, with nothing past that) really doesn't get used in the real world. Pretty much all of it is taught "just in case" you end up in a field that uses it and for which that foundation will be helpful. Math is in a bit of a tricky position compared to other sciences in that it's something that you really need to practice to be good enough at it to use it professionally, so you can't just put off teaching higher-level material until the student actually needs it and expect them to be able to cram then, but there's still a lot of relatively advanced math taught non-optionally that could easily be shifted to later classes that are optional in favour of using that time for more universally useful information like broad scientific literacy and skills for running a household.

This is also why the "why are you teaching our kids about sex instead of trigonometry?" argument against sex ed is particularly stupid. Sex ed is pretty much universally applicable. Almost every student will end up having sex at some point in their lives and benefiting from learning how to do so safely, and while some will figure it out without needing to rely on school, that's no less true of sex than of any other subject. Significantly fewer students will ever need to recite cheerful facts about the square of the hypotenuse, so forcing everyone to learn that (and be graded on and potentially failed because of it) makes significantly less sense, and Pythagoras (along with SOH-CAH-TOA) is probably the highest-level trig/geometry concept that can actually be useful for most people (and even then, you can often just take the measurement directly instead of having to calculate anything).

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Lokarin
08/17/22 10:03:52 AM
#8:


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Judgmenl
08/17/22 10:08:01 AM
#9:


Always had this issue and I am horrible at math. I rarely if ever use any math beyond basic arithmetic and I have a field where people act like you do.

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adjl
08/17/22 10:14:55 AM
#10:


Judgmenl posted...
Always had this issue and I am horrible at math. I rarely if ever use any math beyond basic arithmetic and I have a field where people act like you do.

I mean, programming is heavily rooted in algebra, as a fundamental concept (take input variables, manipulate them, produce output variables), but pretty much all the algebra that's needed for it is covered by about grade 6/7, which is a whole lot less than anything that might qualify as "advanced."

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#11
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hypnox
08/17/22 10:25:57 AM
#12:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Well considering I was on of two GT students in my graduating class as well as nearly 15 years experience as an networking support engineer and application developer for major Telecos as well as a telecommunication company that works with the US DoJ, I think I am pretty decent.

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Judgmenl
08/17/22 10:27:42 AM
#13:


adjl posted...
I mean, programming is heavily rooted in algebra, as a fundamental concept (take input variables, manipulate them, produce output variables), but pretty much all the algebra that's needed for it is covered by about grade 6/7, which is a whole lot less than anything that might qualify as "advanced."
Yea I learned all of that in the 8th grade.
Everything after that I could never wrap my head around. Algebra was the last math course I did well in. Anything calculus based just never resonated with me.

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#14
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hypnox
08/17/22 10:45:29 AM
#15:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Questioning the relevance in a topic being taught is hardly the signs of a bad student.

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adjl
08/17/22 10:50:21 AM
#16:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Why shouldn't people who did well in school be able to criticize school curricula?

Judgmenl posted...
Everything after that I could never wrap my head around. Algebra was the last math course I did well in. Anything calculus based just never resonated with me.

My personal impression (though I don't know how it pans out empirically) is that people generally have a certain point after which math stops coming easily to them and they have to start really working to be good at it. For me, that came in second-year calculus: Up until then, I was excellent at math and never had any difficulty, but in that course I actually started to have trouble wrapping my head around concepts and had to actually study/practice to keep up, at which point I stopped taking any more math because I had no expectations that anything further would be useful enough to work for it (not that anything from the previous 4-5 years was particularly useful either).

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#17
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hypnox
08/17/22 10:58:13 AM
#18:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Not really, you are just trying your hardest to troll. Not really a surprise there.

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adjl
08/17/22 10:58:43 AM
#19:


adjl posted...
Why shouldn't people who did well in school be able to criticize school curricula?


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faramir77
08/17/22 11:05:46 AM
#20:


I teach high school math. I make a point to show a real world career application for everything I teach. Some units are tricky to make that connection (like the unit we have on simplifying radical expressions).

I also make a point to say that the vast majority of students won't directly use most of the concepts they learn. That isn't the point of learning math. Math is an exercise in applying pre-established facts to come to a logical and true solution to an abstract problem. You're solving problems you didn't even know you had; that's about as real world as it gets.

If you think your teachers refused to acknowledge any of this, your teachers didn't really care. Unless they did explain things to you but you've just subconsciously chosen to ignore it.

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teddy241
08/17/22 11:45:48 AM
#21:


hypnox posted...
Not really a failure on my part. Its their job to teach me it, if they don't know what its applied to themselves means that maybe it should have been taught.

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rexcrk
08/17/22 12:22:04 PM
#22:




Thats kind of the problem with education in general.

I have no problem learning, but there definitely needs to be more of a balance of stuff you actually need to know for actual real life and other stuff.


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CedarPointcp
08/17/22 1:22:54 PM
#23:


tc, were you good in math though? did you get up to calculus etc......?
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adjl
08/17/22 2:29:27 PM
#24:


faramir77 posted...
I teach high school math. I make a point to show a real world career application for everything I teach. Some units are tricky to make that connection (like the unit we have on simplifying radical expressions).

I also make a point to say that the vast majority of students won't directly use most of the concepts they learn. That isn't the point of learning math. Math is an exercise in applying pre-established facts to come to a logical and true solution to an abstract problem. You're solving problems you didn't even know you had; that's about as real world as it gets.

If you think your teachers refused to acknowledge any of this, your teachers didn't really care. Unless they did explain things to you but you've just subconsciously chosen to ignore it.

This is true. More so than most of the "the mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell" pieces of information in science courses, the simple act of learning and doing math develops intellectual and problem-solving ability (much like reading/analyzing anything increased reading and comprehension skills) in ways that are applicable outside of actually doing math. The actual procedures used may not be applicable outside of school, but the process of learning, applying, and practicing them does exercise the brain in some very beneficial ways, the same way that lifting weights can benefit pretty much any physical activity.

That said, given that so many people struggle with higher math concepts (whether because of formal dyscalculia or just because they've hit the limits of what comes easily to them) I think there's a lot of room to question teaching those higher concepts in non-optional classes and making them a prerequisite for graduating. Those that don't struggle with them need the opportunity to learn them to remain engaged, and a lot of the really advanced stuff is in optional high school classes anyway, but if the aim is just "do math to exercise your brain" then I think there's still a lot of room for improvement to make sure as many people as possible get that exercise.

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hypnox
08/17/22 7:26:29 PM
#25:


CedarPointcp posted...
tc, were you good in math though? did you get up to calculus etc......?

I was AP and GT all through school when it was science and math. History and English I was in regular classes.

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Metalsonic66
08/17/22 7:28:09 PM
#26:


College Algebra kicked my ass... twice

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BigOlePappy
08/17/22 7:31:55 PM
#27:


My math epiphany was when I realized it couldn't be used in the real world. Then I learned math better.

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blu
08/17/22 8:53:25 PM
#28:


Im a physicist and have a math degree. Professionally I dont go beyond some geometry/algebra and even thats rare.

Its very good to understand concepts of math and it helps expand how you think, but you dont actually have to be able to do the math to understand concepts of something like epsilon delta definition of a limit or sets.
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Fierce_Deity_08
08/18/22 2:10:51 AM
#29:


My main problem in math is that my brain just refused to comprehend it. No matter what I tried, I could not understand the concepts at all. I can add pretty quickly if I dont think about it, but if I actively look for an answer, I lock up. I liked all my math teachers though. Such nice people!

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hypnox
08/18/22 3:29:20 AM
#30:


Fierce_Deity_08 posted...
My main problem in math is that my brain just refused to comprehend it. No matter what I tried, I could not understand the concepts at all. I can add pretty quickly if I dont think about it, but if I actively look for an answer, I lock up. I liked all my math teachers though. Such nice people!

well the theme of this topic might actually help you. Some people with problems with math normally need to associate it with real world reasons.

Lets say basic problem 4x+4=28

You and three friends go to a bar with a coupon for free plate of nachos, those nachos are 4 dollars. The bill comes and is 28 dollars, how much does each person pay. Yes theres easier ways to figure that out, but that Algebra equation is one way to do it.

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Fierce_Deity_08
08/18/22 12:06:49 PM
#31:


hypnox posted...
well the theme of this topic might actually help you. Some people with problems with math normally need to associate it with real world reasons.

Lets say basic problem 4x+4=28

You and three friends go to a bar with a coupon for free plate of nachos, those nachos are 4 dollars. The bill comes and is 28 dollars, how much does each person pay. Yes theres easier ways to figure that out, but that Algebra equation is one way to do it.

Yeah, I have blocks on basic problems like that too. My brain shuts off seeing any number right next to a letter like that. Its probably a phobia.

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FatalAccident
08/18/22 1:34:51 PM
#32:


hypnox posted...
Not really, you are just trying your hardest to troll. Not really a surprise there.
hes really trying not very hard at all

but youre biting hard lmao

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keyblader1985
08/18/22 1:49:52 PM
#33:


I was wondering why I have poster #2 ignored since I have no memory of them, but they're demonstrating why.

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Judgmenl
08/18/22 2:18:37 PM
#34:


Usually have a good mental record of who has/hasn't posted here and haven't seen that name before.

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Muscles
08/18/22 2:44:03 PM
#35:


I just could not pay attention in math, it was so God damn boring because it went so slow. It's like they just repeated stuff over and over just for the sake of it. I always did good in it though at least.

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Lokarin
08/18/22 2:44:59 PM
#36:


When is English or Social Studies ever gunna be used in real life?

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agesboy
08/18/22 3:04:12 PM
#37:


always felt like the logic of math was more important than actually solving equations

like sure you will probably never actually need to do calculus irl but knowing what a limit is helps conceptualize something like diminishing returns

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Kyuubi4269
08/18/22 3:12:55 PM
#38:


I like how TC refuted the part of the insult attacking his maths skills, inadvertently confirming the "not well adjusted" part through silence.

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Dikitain
08/18/22 4:09:39 PM
#39:


adjl posted...
I mean, programming is heavily rooted in algebra, as a fundamental concept (take input variables, manipulate them, produce output variables), but pretty much all the algebra that's needed for it is covered by about grade 6/7, which is a whole lot less than anything that might qualify as "advanced."
Not to mention discrete mathematics is the basis of every modern programming language.

Hell, theoretical computer science was nicknamed "Discrete Math 2.5" in my college because it was basically applying everything you learned in discrete math 2 to computer science.

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