Board 8 > Anime & Manga Discussion Topic 286: Wrong Stuff

(+) Yeah! (+)

Oh no, reactions are GOLD.

But I mean like...actual discussion.

oh right forgot to watch OP this week

let's see these setups for Film Red

wow Uta is a total b as a kid

living up to the title of diva

new lore Shanks crew gets so passed out drunk they all sleep naked

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2022-08-16/one-piece-film-red-becomes-franchise-no.1-film-in-10-days/.188697

The power of Shanks

Chainsaw Man, Chapter 71 down

Well I was gonna say the pacing is both a blessing and curse for it earlier on but then we got into straight up Berserk territory and I totally fuck with that

And all caught up

yay cats and dogs

Real talk though if I was to think of a modern day Berserk this is what I'd imagine pretty much and that's super cool

What a time to catch up with today's chapter, too.

yea that's honestly one of my favorite chapters so far I think

Oh sounds like time for a Berserk update then

Nearing the end of the 7th deluxe edition book (vol 21)

Guts killed off Father Mozgus and now they're trying to escape while another eclipse looking event seems to be getting ready to kick off at the top of the tower with big behelit and THE BABY

Man I don't know how you guys can read 30 chapters in an hour. Are you even looking at the art!?

Yea, I even slowed down a bit for the art! Like with the most recent chapter

Hey, you want to see something hilarious?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/6/5/AAecVdAADkmt.jpg
BLACK FRIEZA!!!!!!!!! Capable of OHKO'ing both UI Goku and UE Vegeta at full health. And you guys thought Dragon Ball Super couldn't get even more absurd!

I rememeber when Frieza used to be cool.

Like 25 years ago.

Man Frieza was so cool.

Hot take but DBZ never recovered from Mecha Frieza. People focus on "oooh Trunks is so cool Super Saiyan with a sword", which is true, but that was the beginning of the end on both fronts. As soon as there was more than one Super Saiyan DB died a little.

I think most agree the end of the Cell Games was the last great DB arc. I always disliked Frieza and he shouldve stayed gone permanently after Trunks cut him up

I like the Cell Saga a lot in a vacuum, but if I'm talking about...

OK.

I feel like this sounds like pretentious bullshit, but I don't respect the Cell Saga. I really like it, but if I'm talking about "how does this impact my opinion of Dragonball as a historic series", to me it clearly muddled it, and Dragonball would have been an actual classic in the sense that it was a manga that was constantly recommended as a must read, something that was looked back on fondly instead of the huge corporate mess it is nowadays, if it had made a clean break at Namek.

And I have to reiterate I REALLY like the Cell Saga, it's a stupid mess but it's a really fun stupid mess, unlike Buu which is just a really awful stupid mess.

And of course I'm on the record to have hated most of the stuff after that too, and nothing more so than the constant new forms and transformations. Super Saiyan being the end of it (no need to tack 1 on there, God imagine that perfect world) would have been profoundly more satisfying.

and here's me liking Frieza more now because of Super than I ever did in Z

Buu was fun to me lol

Frieza rules in Super

And man, if you dont like goofy forms and crazy characters, dont get into One Piece

I like Buu even if that arc was plagued by bad writing and general quit giving a fuck feeling. I still like DB as a whole a lot, but there are definitely major flaws with it. If you just want pure brainless entertainment its up there with the best, but the minute you start talking plot it makes Naruto look like a literary masterpiece. Most of the transformations dont bother me. I like God and Blue, but I have never liked 3, 4 or either the UI stuff.

Cell just introduced so many great designs and characters its hard for me not to love that arc. Cell himself is the best villain that isnt Vegeta. 16, 17 and 18 are all solid and it was the start of Vegeta displaying true emotional growth by showing he actually was softer than he acted. Vegetas continued character growth is my favorite aspect of Super. This guy went from Im gonna kill my enslaver so I can rule the entire universe to I gotta name my baby fuck training right now this is more important.

GANON1025 posted...

Frieza rules in Super

And man, if you dont like goofy forms and crazy characters, dont get into One Piece

I love this shit when it's actually interesting an unique. That's part of why One Piece is so good! And transformations prior to Android in DB were also super cool. The original Frieza forms are legendary, even if the 3rd should have just been cut entirely.

Transformation in DB after Android are literally the same shit over and over again. A villain that copies Frieza, or a Hero that copies Super Saiyans. Every SSJ form is just hair different, stronger. There's nothing interesting, special, unique, or standout about any of it. "Ultra Instinct Goku is so cool" IT'S JUST A STRONGER SUPER SAIYAN WITH WHITE HAIR THIS SHIT IS NOTHING.

Piccolo turns fucking yellow in that new movie and people lose their mind, Frieza turns black in this new manga chapter its the same old boring tired shit.

I WISH DB would get wacky, instead it's out of ideas. DB wishes it had even an iota of the quality of One Piece nowadays.

Like, fucking honestly? GT sucks but SSJ4 is better than literally every new form in all of this new stuff because at least it's unique.

Ultra Instinct isnt unique to you?

GANON1025 posted...

Ultra Instinct isnt unique to you?

Not even a little, it's just a stronger white haired serious Goku, it is beyond me how someone COULD find it unique. In fact I consider it the poster child of how DB is just recycling itself.

White, red, gold, blue, it's all the exact same thing with different colors.

Oh, you mean visually. So you like SSJ3 and 4 because they visually changed the character.

GANON1025 posted...

Oh, you mean visually. So you like SSJ3 and 4 because they visually changed the character.

No, SSJ3 is also bad, it's the same shit different hair like always.

I thought I remembered more unique stuff SSJ4 could do, but it's been a while and I'm not finding anything, so if I'm misremembering that then that also lands in the shit pile.

Frieza in Super was bad too. I dont get why people liked that. He was all bark and no bite, but worst of all they did Buu dirty on top of it

New super saiyan forms are just changes to the hair and nothing else and the basis for the new form is still "I unlocked more power".

So still a minor appearance change and higher power level.

I mean, you can boil Luffys gears down to he unlocked more power if you really want to.

Also even though Super Saiyan is very iconic lets be real here its still just a hair and eye color change too. If anything Goku turning into a giant ape as a kid was more creative

GANON1025 posted...

I mean, you can boil Luffys gears down to he unlocked more power if you really want

Sure if you ignore the mechanics of how they work/how they change his attacks (except gear 2nd which is basically Luffy super saiyan with a weak explanation) and the fact that they are tied to his fruit so no one else in that world can do the same power ups.

swordz9 posted...

Also even though Super Saiyan is very iconic lets be real here its still just a hair and eye color change too. If anything Goku turning into a giant ape as a kid was more creative

Yeah but since it was the first and at the time only such power up it still felt unique.

SHINE_GET_64 posted...

and here's me liking Frieza more now because of Super than I ever did in Z

Cause people prefer poorly written anti heroes than well written but pathetic villains.

Not that he isn't a villain in super I don't think but just by making him strong through training makes him more respectable (imo less interesting), than a guy who loses his shit when he loses a drop of blood

As far as power ups go it's more about narrative flow for me. All three SSJ reveals felt great because they kept 'subverting' expectations. Even SSJ3 was dropped early like 'dont expect this shit to save the day anymore'

And I will say I don't like gear 4 but it was still utilized fairly well

Like, at bare minimum I'm asking for cool new moves or something. UI Goku still just busting out the Kamehameha. The last time any form of Goku had a cool new move was when Gogeta threw that Sparkle Dust at Janemba.

Excuse me, but according to Dokkan Battle , UI Goku uses the Supreme Kamehameha

Mother fuckers couldn't even make it a white Kamehameha or something.

I thought Kefla had some pretty cool moves. Maybe Im just jaded or whatever at this point, but theres a ton of sameness in so much anime its largely why I rarely ever bother watching it anymore. So many similar looking main designs right down to even their personalities. Theres just so much that feels so similar you could show a picture of 100 black haired anime MCs to somebody who doesnt watch anime and theyd probably think theyre all the same character drawn by different people

swordz9 posted...

I thought Kefla had some pretty cool moves. Maybe Im just jaded or whatever at this point, but theres a ton of sameness in so much anime its largely why I rarely ever bother watching it anymore. So many similar looking main designs right down to even their personalities. Theres just so much that feels so similar you could show a picture of 100 black haired anime MCs to somebody who doesnt watch anime and theyd probably think theyre all the same character drawn by different people

The Kirito effect has been pretty strong.

Its not even just him though. Characters had those designs before SAO. Even for a fair amount of shounen stuff the characters have similar enough hair or personality traits to a degree. Like you can say Luffy is just stretchy Goku (at least thats how he felt early on for what I got to of OP). They definitely use a lot of archetypes a ton for all kinds of characters.

Eh there's always been dominant styles that makes things look the same. I can't tell the difference between lots of things drawn in past eras.

swordz9 posted...

They definitely use a lot of archetypes a ton for all kinds of characters.

This is inescapable though. Stories have been written or told for thousands of years, all the archetypes have already been created. The fact that we're even limiting things to japanese animation is only going to make it more obvious that there's a lot of influence and inspiration on each other.

And I think you'd have to not pay attention to not see how different Luffy is from Goku. Not only is Goku a somewhat inconsistent character over the course of the series, but the themes and scenarios the characters react to are entirely different.

The similarities between Goku and Luffy exist as superficial and referential.

The similarities between Kirito and, without exaggeration, over 100 protagonists in anime and LNs over the last decade are so extreme that more often than not they essentially take place in the same setting and even with the same plot.

Yes, protags looked like Kirito before Kirito, but Kirito became the blueprint to the point right now where not only are we still getting copies, we're even getting copies that are specifically done to try and bait and switch the audience by saying "you thought it was Kirito, buuuuut"....and now THAT is it's OWN blueprint, people copying making fun of the copies.

I didnt get to enough of OP to see too much of a difference so it might be an unfair comparison. Its not like they dont share any qualities though at least, but yeah I guess its inescapable.

I mean Luffy was inspired by Goku FOR the similarities. It's just that the rest of the characters are shaded entirely differently by the series they're in.

Like even in Chapter 2 Luffy says he initially dislikes the character Coby, because he's weak and doesn't fight for his dreams. Goku never says something like this to anyone, he doesn't even have an opinion on having dreams or an ambition. Likewise Goku has a phase where he's shown to be particularly compassionate to fallen enemies, refusing to finish them. Luffy never engages with this rhetoric, as far as we can tell he doesn't give two fucks about the life or death of his enemies.

I guess my bottom line is, if the series themselves are sufficiently different, you can have similar characters in them but they'll feel different because they're being explored in a different way.

Well in that regard OP actually cares about its writing. DB is just cashing checks

I mean DB did some solid ass storytelling, but Oda is a guy who remembers to bring back his 273rd minor character, while Toriyama struggles to remember who Tenshinhan is.

swordz9 posted...

I thought Kefla had some pretty cool moves. Maybe Im just jaded or whatever at this point, but theres a ton of sameness in so much anime its largely why I rarely ever bother watching it anymore. So many similar looking main designs right down to even their personalities. Theres just so much that feels so similar you could show a picture of 100 black haired anime MCs to somebody who doesnt watch anime and theyd probably think theyre all the same character drawn by different people

you could just watch the anime people actually like

or just watch series with female protagonists since they're better than male protagonists 90% of the time

Not sure how helpful that first one is with how often Im at odds with others, but yeah. Just gotta get back into it instead of prioritizing games and non-anime series