Current Events > K-Pop summer topic part 2

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PumpkinCoach 08/21/22 12:13:09 PM #51:	paerarru posted... with this standard there's no solution but a hard line ban on minors (and good luck with that!) i don't see what that's going to do, because you'd still have minors as trainees, subjected to largely the same environment, but without even the public oversight. also, you do not have to be a minor to be sexually exploited in the industry - take stellar, for example. it depends on what we're identifying as the problem with minors in kpop, and for my part most of those are still labour issues, a lot of which are opaque and dependent on internal pressure. in some ways, there have been improvements on that front - there are curfews that weren't there before (though i'm sure companies have dodged those) and mental health breaks which are good for everyone, but that's beyond the scope of this discussion. what i can comment on is how they're marketed since that's forward facing, but that doesn't tell me what's going on beyond that. like, them doing creepy lolita shit with an mv doesn't tell me about their work conditions, but i do see criticism that over-conflates the issue. i think folks towing the company line of "it's a fan song! they want to bake cookies for their fans it's perfectly innocent no you're the pervert" are ridiculous, but i don't think "min heejin is a groomer! ban all minors" have much of a leg to stand on either. it's tricky, but being a minor doesn't make you automatically unable to handle the industry anymore than being of age makes you able to, so plenty to be done before just an outright ban on minors which, again, wouldn't do shit. so back to the main thing which is sexual exploitation of minors, and that's not really about newjeans but the broader culture. bringing up yer taemins and hyunas is useful because a lot of newer fans like to look at a few groups now as a limited and unique phenomenon rather than something pervasive and ingrained, but as a defense it falls short because you also have idols who debuted as minors talking about issues they faced surrounding that. specifically i'm thinking about IU as an adult writing an album critiquing how she was sexualised as a minor, and the sheer amount of pushback she got for it. like, i get the frustration, "most disgusting thing in kpop" is not a great place to start a conversation (and misses the forest for the trees), but that doesn't mean there's nothing worth considering. anyways, newjeans is mid, boring rnb, sounded like goddamn robots in that mnet itnw cover, the 14yos in my group can beat up their 14yos. https://youtu.be/k9V6wQLs0Hk and that's the rapper. --- https://i.imgur.com/CQr5Xab.gif this is a world... where azuarc eats gurus <cite>PumpkinCoach posted [p:967465452] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>paerarru posted... </cite><quote>with this standard there's no solution but a hard line ban on minors (and good luck with that!)</quote>i don't see what that's going to do, because you'd still have minors as trainees, subjected to largely the same environment, but without even the public oversight. also, you do not have to be a minor to be sexually exploited in the industry - take stellar, for example.it depends on what we're identifying as the problem with minors in kpop, and for my part most of those are still labour issues, a lot of which are opaque and dependent on internal pressure. in some ways, there have been improvements on that front - there are curfews that weren't there before (though i'm sure companies have dodged those) and mental health breaks which are good for everyone, but that's beyond the scope of this discussion. what i can comment on is how they're marketed since that's forward facing, but that doesn't tell me what's going on beyond that. like, them doing creepy lolita shit with an mv doesn't tell me about their work conditions, but i do see criticism that over-conflates the issue. i think folks towing the company line of "it's a fan song! they want to bake cookies for their fans it's perfectly innocent no you're the pervert" are ridiculous, but i don't think "min heejin is a groomer! ban all minors" have much of a leg to stand on either. it's tricky, but being a minor doesn't make you automatically unable to handle the industry anymore than being of age makes you able to, so plenty to be done before just an outright ban on minors which, again, wouldn't do shit.so back to the main thing which is sexual exploitation of minors, and that's not really about newjeans but the broader culture. bringing up yer taemins and hyunas is useful because a lot of newer fans like to look at a few groups now as a limited and unique phenomenon rather than something pervasive and ingrained, but as a defense it falls short because you also have idols who debuted as minors talking about issues they faced surrounding that. specifically i'm thinking about IU as an adult writing an album critiquing how she was sexualised as a minor, and the sheer amount of pushback she got for it. like, i get the frustration, "most disgusting thing in kpop" is not a great place to start a conversation (and misses the forest for the trees), but that doesn't mean there's nothing worth considering.anyways, newjeans is mid, boring rnb, sounded like goddamn robots in that mnet itnw cover, the 14yos in my group can beat up their 14yos.https://youtu.be/k9V6wQLs0Hkand that's the rapper.</quote> ... 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paerarru 08/21/22 10:14:19 PM #52:	Okay, fine. PumpkinCoach posted... i don't see what that's going to do, because you'd still have minors as trainees, subjected to largely the same environment, but without even the public oversight. ...okay, so ban them from training also? You're doubling down on a level of purity that's unrealistic, not to mention impractical. Maybe even a hint paranoid in its vigilance. I know you have very well justified, and well intentioned reasons for doing so, but yes, there's something to be said about not making the conscience and morals of other people the archenemies of our tastes and sensibilities... also, you do not have to be a minor to be sexually exploited in the industry - take stellar, for example. it depends on what we're identifying as the problem with minors in kpop [...] Exactly, that IS the point, but you don't see it through, you don't care to see it through, you don't connect those two paragraphs. There are two big issues, and if and when they come together they may yet make a third, but everybody chooses to cast the narrative their own way, mix and match, one big easy to judge or dismiss lump. like, them doing creepy lolita shit with an mv doesn't tell me about their work conditions, but i do see criticism that over-conflates the issue. i think folks towing the company line of "it's a fan song! they want to bake cookies for their fans it's perfectly innocent no you're the pervert" are ridiculous, but i don't think "min heejin is a groomer! ban all minors" have much of a leg to stand on either. it's tricky, but being a minor doesn't make you automatically unable to handle the industry anymore than being of age makes you able to, so plenty to be done before just an outright ban on minors which, again, wouldn't do shit. [...] But Pumpkin. Liking girls (or boys) is not necessarily creepy, in fact it's quite perfectly natural. Yes, even young girls, to some degree, in some way, if that's even what might happen at some given moment. They do not magically become attractive at the stroke of midnight at some date, they grow into it, over a number of years, some maybe a bit faster than others. It's human nature, and more relevantly it's also part of the entertainment industry. And I know you don't need me to tell you all this. But for some reason some people choose to... let's say put on these special glasses, very comfortable glasses where they see everything in simple black and white, tunneling their vision when they feel the limit gets pushed too far. But wait, yes like you said there CAN be granted indulgent, overly and more or less overtly sensual gasp art here, it's not necessarily a crime scene! Everyone has their own perception, their own limit. And what might seem innocent to some might seem extreme to others. NOW. I understand the concern. Where does that leave the children's agency? Doesn't it just become objectification, isn't something sinister going on... or maybe after all, in a way they're just modeling? Well, now we're back to square one, you see? But now we can, we should consider ALL those factors we went around collecting, and not just go with the first gut instinct that hits us, not just blurt out dramatic or silly one liners, and leave no middle ground, no nuance, no chance. I agree, there is a LOT worth considering, it is very tricky. Otherwise we just go round and round, and meanwhile the problems remain. anyways, newjeans is mid, boring rnb, sounded like goddamn robots in that mnet itnw cover, Ah, you see, you can be unfair! :p the 14yos in my group can beat up their 14yos. lol, now them are fighting words! we'll leave that for next round --- Hottest K-Pop Girl Group http://challonge.com/96st4ysk <cite>paerarru posted [p:967477645] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>Okay, fine.PumpkinCoach posted... </cite><quote>i don't see what that's going to do, because you'd still have minors as trainees, subjected to largely the same environment, but without even the public oversight.</quote>...okay, so ban them from training also? You're doubling down on a level of purity that's unrealistic, not to mention impractical. Maybe even a hint paranoid in its vigilance. I know you have very well justified, and well intentioned reasons for doing so, but yes, there's something to be said about not making the conscience and morals of other people the archenemies of our tastes and sensibilities...<quote>also, you do not have to be a minor to be sexually exploited in the industry - take stellar, for example.it depends on what we're identifying as the problem with minors in kpop [...]</quote>Exactly, that IS the point, but you don't see it through, you don't care to see it through, you don't connect those two paragraphs. There are two big issues, and if and when they come together they may yet make a third, but everybody chooses to cast the narrative their own way, mix and match, one big easy to judge or dismiss lump.<quote>like, them doing creepy lolita shit with an mv doesn't tell me about their work conditions, but i do see criticism that over-conflates the issue. i think folks towing the company line of "it's a fan song! they want to bake cookies for their fans it's perfectly innocent no you're the pervert" are ridiculous, but i don't think "min heejin is a groomer! ban all minors" have much of a leg to stand on either. it's tricky, but being a minor doesn't make you automatically unable to handle the industry anymore than being of age makes you able to, so plenty to be done before just an outright ban on minors which, again, wouldn't do shit. [...]</quote>But Pumpkin. Liking girls (or boys) is not necessarily creepy, in fact it's quite perfectly natural. Yes, even young girls, to some degree, in some way, if that's even what might happen at some given moment. They do not magically become attractive at the stroke of midnight at some date, they grow into it, over a number of years, some maybe a bit faster than others. It's human nature, and more relevantly it's also part of the entertainment industry. And I know you don't need me to tell you all this. But for some reason some people choose to... let's say put on these special glasses, very comfortable glasses where they see everything in simple black and white, tunneling their vision when they feel the limit gets pushed too far. But wait, yes like you said there CAN be granted indulgent, overly and more or less overtly sensual gasp art here, it's not necessarily a crime scene! Everyone has their own perception, their own limit. And what might seem innocent to some might seem extreme to others.NOW. I understand the concern. Where does that leave the children's agency? Doesn't it just become objectification, isn't something sinister going on... or maybe after all, in a way they're just modeling? Well, now we're back to square one, you see? But now we can, we should consider ALL those factors we went around collecting, and not just go with the first gut instinct that hits us, not just blurt out dramatic or silly one liners, and leave no middle ground, no nuance, no chance. I agree, there is a LOT worth considering, it is very tricky. Otherwise we just go round and round, and meanwhile the problems remain.<quote>anyways, newjeans is mid, boring rnb, sounded like goddamn robots in that mnet itnw cover,</quote>Ah, you see, you can be unfair! :p<quote>the 14yos in my group can beat up their 14yos.</quote>lol, now them are fighting words! we'll leave that for next round</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KaZooo 08/21/22 10:58:24 PM #53:	PumpkinCoach posted... anyways, newjeans is mid, boring rnb, sounded like goddamn robots in that mnet itnw cover, the 14yos in my group can beat up their 14yos. Never thought I'd be on gamefaqs seeing 14 year olds pit against each other between users, like parents who get competitive over kids sports. Makes me feel old lol --- Competing every night, both ends, shoot inside/outside, fast break, transition, Monta Ellis have it all <cite>KaZooo posted [p:967478442] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>PumpkinCoach posted... </cite><quote>anyways, newjeans is mid, boring rnb, sounded like goddamn robots in that mnet itnw cover, the 14yos in my group can beat up their 14yos.</quote> Never thought I'd be on gamefaqs seeing 14 year olds pit against each other between users, like parents who get competitive over kids sports.Makes me feel old lol</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
PumpkinCoach 08/21/22 11:57:10 PM #54:	paerarru posted... ...okay, so ban them from training also? You're doubling down on a level of purity that's unrealistic, not to mention impractical. Maybe even a hint paranoid in its vigilance. I know you have very well justified, and well intentioned reasons for doing so, but yes, there's something to be said about not making the conscience and morals of other people the archenemies of our tastes and sensibilities... that's not my conclusion though. i'm agreeing that a ban is impractical and arbitrary, but also that it wouldn't address the issues that often get raised. i think you can have a safe environment for minors and everyone else in the industry, but it takes work. paerarru posted... Exactly, that IS the point, but you don't see it through, you don't care to see it through, you don't connect those two paragraphs. There are two big issues, and if and when they come together they may yet make a third, but everybody chooses to cast the narrative their own way, mix and match, one big easy to judge or dismiss lump. i can barely parse this, but what i mean is that there are issues specific to minors and ones that affect minors but also apply to adults in the industry and could be addressed together. paerarru posted... But Pumpkin. Liking girls (or boys) is not necessarily creepy, in fact it's quite perfectly natural. Yes, even young girls, to some degree, in some way, if that's even what might happen at some given moment. this isn't about how you or i or anyone else personally engages with newjean's material. i am not the thought police. paerarru posted... Everyone has their own perception, their own limit. And what might seem innocent to some might seem extreme to others. hence, a dog whistle. the presentation in the hurt mv is very sexual. i'm not talking morals, just visual literacy. most people are not going to see it that way, and more power to them. i can lay out why it's creepy and that would just be another perspective, and yeah, it's not a crime scene - like i said, i can't draw any conclusions beyond an aesthetic critique. paerarru posted... Where does that leave the children's agency? how much agency do you think the kids are allowed in any part of newjean's presentation? though i take the point that there are presumptions about how individual performers feel in a lot of critique, but again, my focus is not on newjeans but on broader industry and cultural attitudes. KaZooo posted... Never thought I'd be on gamefaqs seeing 14 year olds pit against each other between users, like parents who get competitive over kids sports. oh yeah? let's take it to the skating rink my kid's a champion figure skater --- https://i.imgur.com/CQr5Xab.gif this is a world... where azuarc eats gurus <cite>PumpkinCoach posted [p:967479377] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>paerarru posted... </cite><quote>...okay, so ban them from training also? You're doubling down on a level of purity that's unrealistic, not to mention impractical. Maybe even a hint paranoid in its vigilance. I know you have very well justified, and well intentioned reasons for doing so, but yes, there's something to be said about not making the conscience and morals of other people the archenemies of our tastes and sensibilities...</quote>that's not my conclusion though. i'm agreeing that a ban is impractical and arbitrary, but also that it wouldn't address the issues that often get raised. i think you can have a safe environment for minors and everyone else in the industry, but it takes work.paerarru posted... </cite><quote>Exactly, that IS the point, but you don't see it through, you don't care to see it through, you don't connect those two paragraphs. There are two big issues, and if and when they come together they may yet make a third, but everybody chooses to cast the narrative their own way, mix and match, one big easy to judge or dismiss lump.</quote>i can barely parse this, but what i mean is that there are issues specific to minors and ones that affect minors but also apply to adults in the industry and could be addressed together.paerarru posted... </cite><quote>But Pumpkin. Liking girls (or boys) is not necessarily creepy, in fact it's quite perfectly natural. Yes, even young girls, to some degree, in some way, if that's even what might happen at some given moment.</quote>this isn't about how you or i or anyone else personally engages with newjean's material. i am not the thought police.paerarru posted... </cite><quote>Everyone has their own perception, their own limit. And what might seem innocent to some might seem extreme to others.</quote>hence, a dog whistle. the presentation in the hurt mv is very sexual. i'm not talking morals, just visual literacy. most people are not going to see it that way, and more power to them. i can lay out why it's creepy and that would just be another perspective, and yeah, it's not a crime scene - like i said, i can't draw any conclusions beyond an aesthetic critique.paerarru posted... </cite><quote>Where does that leave the children's agency?</quote>how much agency do you think the kids are allowed in any part of newjean's presentation? though i take the point that there are presumptions about how individual performers feel in a lot of critique, but again, my focus is not on newjeans but on broader industry and cultural attitudes.KaZooo posted... </cite><quote>Never thought I'd be on gamefaqs seeing 14 year olds pit against each other between users, like parents who get competitive over kids sports.</quote>oh yeah? let's take it to the skating rink my kid's a champion figure skater</quote> ... 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paerarru 08/22/22 2:30:02 AM #55:	PumpkinCoach posted... that's not my conclusion though. i'm agreeing that a ban is impractical and arbitrary, but also that it wouldn't address the issues that often get raised. i think you can have a safe environment for minors and everyone else in the industry, but it takes work. Yeah, it wouldn't address the roots of the issues as you'd like. But it would certainly straight up uproot them, on each environment as far as you want to go. No more minors, no more exploitation of minors. Again, not that I'm actually advocating for it, I just don't see any other solution, not to the problem as you describe it, or at least as I've been perceiving you describe it, or perhaps others describe it. I think the work you're talking about that would have to be done to get to that level of safety... is honestly overkill. Not to mention... I think it would be more work than you might think. The roots of these issues go VERY deep. And in many different directions, at that. I'm starting to wonder if you're the one that's too naive! i can barely parse this, but what i mean is that there are issues specific to minors and ones that affect minors but also apply to adults in the industry and could be addressed together. And there are issues that affect adults but can also apply to minors. Those are obviously specially serious. This is what I mean: I do see how New Jeans are being "sexually exploited" to really dramatize the point. But they're being sexually exploited as idols. Not as minors. Perhaps a (not so) subtle, but important distinction. The fact that they are idols who are being sexually exploited (as usual!) who happen to be minors is incidental, I really think, at least I certainly desperately want to believe so. And I can. So I will. And on top of that they're also being just regularly exploited. But they're minors, so that compounds THAT issue. this isn't about how you or i or anyone else personally engages with newjean's material. i am not the thought police. Well, now I'm understanding your focus is different. But this is the debate with some other people. Or closely related. hence, a dog whistle. the presentation in the hurt mv is very sexual. i'm not talking morals, just visual literacy. most people are not going to see it that way, and more power to them. i can lay out why it's creepy and that would just be another perspective, and yeah, it's not a crime scene - like i said, i can't draw any conclusions beyond an aesthetic critique. Mmm... but a dog whistle implies a kind of veiled intention. Again I don't mean to defend anybody... but I'm also wary of judging them. Not to mention I'm not sure who exactly should be judged in each case. Maybe everybody would share some of the blame. Which again leads me to believe there's not really much of a "blame"... it's just business as usual. So yeah. More to the point, we just flat out disagree here. No, I know what you mean. I still think that's a choice of interpretation. In fact I'll tell you, I think you're actually mistaken here. I don't think the girls are being portrayed THAT way there. I wrote a nice paragraph but no. I'm not even going to say anything more on this. how much agency do you think the kids are allowed in any part of newjean's presentation? though i take the point that there are presumptions about how individual performers feel in a lot of critique, but again, my focus is not on newjeans but on broader industry and cultural attitudes. Mmm, a very good point, yours too! Again here's the thing. I don't think the industry particularly looks to exploit minors, in whichever way. I think that's just a bonus they get from many other sources, reasons. It's a bonus for them because in many ways minors are just easier to exploit. In every way. Then again... the thought must occur that they've got used to the convenience of exploiting minors, and have conditioned themselves to actively seek it. A very troubling thought... but yeah, certainly demanding a lot of consideration. --- Hottest K-Pop Girl Group http://challonge.com/96st4ysk <cite>paerarru posted [p:967481219] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>PumpkinCoach posted... </cite><quote>that's not my conclusion though. i'm agreeing that a ban is impractical and arbitrary, but also that it wouldn't address the issues that often get raised. i think you can have a safe environment for minors and everyone else in the industry, but it takes work.</quote>Yeah, it wouldn't address the roots of the issues as you'd like. But it would certainly straight up uproot them, on each environment as far as you want to go. No more minors, no more exploitation of minors. Again, not that I'm actually advocating for it, I just don't see any other solution, not to the problem as you describe it, or at least as I've been perceiving you describe it, or perhaps others describe it. I think the work you're talking about that would have to be done to get to that level of safety... is honestly overkill. Not to mention... I think it would be more work than you might think. The roots of these issues go VERY deep. And in many different directions, at that. I'm starting to wonder if you're the one that's too naive!<quote>i can barely parse this, but what i mean is that there are issues specific to minors and ones that affect minors but also apply to adults in the industry and could be addressed together.</quote>And there are issues that affect adults but can also apply to minors. Those are obviously specially serious. This is what I mean: I do see how New Jeans are being "sexually exploited" to really dramatize the point. But they're being sexually exploited as idols. Not as minors. Perhaps a (not so) subtle, but important distinction. The fact that they are idols who are being sexually exploited (as usual!) who happen to be minors is incidental, I really think, at least I certainly desperately want to believe so. And I can. So I will. And on top of that they're also being just regularly exploited. But they're minors, so that compounds THAT issue.<quote>this isn't about how you or i or anyone else personally engages with newjean's material. i am not the thought police.</quote>Well, now I'm understanding your focus is different. But this is the debate with some other people. Or closely related.<quote>hence, a dog whistle. the presentation in the hurt mv is very sexual. i'm not talking morals, just visual literacy. most people are not going to see it that way, and more power to them. i can lay out why it's creepy and that would just be another perspective, and yeah, it's not a crime scene - like i said, i can't draw any conclusions beyond an aesthetic critique.</quote>Mmm... but a dog whistle implies a kind of veiled intention. Again I don't mean to defend anybody... but I'm also wary of judging them. Not to mention I'm not sure who exactly should be judged in each case. Maybe everybody would share some of the blame. Which again leads me to believe there's not really much of a "blame"... it's just business as usual.So yeah. More to the point, we just flat out disagree here. No, I know what you mean. I still think that's a choice of interpretation. In fact I'll tell you, I think you're actually mistaken here. I don't think the girls are being portrayed THAT way there. I wrote a nice paragraph but no. I'm not even going to say anything more on this.<quote>how much agency do you think the kids are allowed in any part of newjean's presentation? though i take the point that there are presumptions about how individual performers feel in a lot of critique, but again, my focus is not on newjeans but on broader industry and cultural attitudes.</quote>Mmm, a very good point, yours too! Again here's the thing. I don't think the industry particularly looks to exploit minors, in whichever way. I think that's just a bonus they get from many other sources, reasons. It's a bonus for them because in many ways minors are just easier to exploit. In every way. Then again... the thought must occur that they've got used to the convenience of exploiting minors, and have conditioned themselves to actively seek it. A very troubling thought... but yeah, certainly demanding a lot of consideration.</quote> ... 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KaZooo 08/22/22 10:01:32 AM #56:	https://youtu.be/F0B7HDiY-10 I've listened to this one a few times. It's a similar story to what I've been finding per my previous post. It's not bad, but I just don't think it really sticks with longevity. The build up is immediate, runtime is a but short and the instrumental hook is a bit of a filler. Would've been nice if they didn't lean on that "I Will Survive " sample. It's so strongly associated with the original song that it's almost impossible to try to reinvent with it. --- Competing every night, both ends, shoot inside/outside, fast break, transition, Monta Ellis have it all <cite>KaZooo posted [p:967485971] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>https://youtu.be/F0B7HDiY-10I've listened to this one a few times. It's a similar story to what I've been finding per my previous post. It's not bad, but I just don't think it really sticks with longevity. The build up is immediate, runtime is a but short and the instrumental hook is a bit of a filler.Would've been nice if they didn't lean on that "I Will Survive " sample. It's so strongly associated with the original song that it's almost impossible to try to reinvent with it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
PumpkinCoach 08/23/22 12:20:24 AM #57:	paerarru posted... I think the work you're talking about that would have to be done to get to that level of safety... is honestly overkill. Not to mention... I think it would be more work than you might think. The roots of these issues go VERY deep. And in many different directions, at that. I'm starting to wonder if you're the one that's too naive! you don't know how much work i think it will be. maybe this is the problem with taking too large a scope because, yes, there is a constellation of issues, some easier to tackle than others, and some that are part of the general labour struggle that needs to happen regardless of whether there are minors involved. some of it is exploitative in the way all labour under capitalism is exploitative, and there's some that are more specific to kpop (former weeekly's jiyoon spoke candidly on some of that very recently, which is worth a look). the problems are not irreducible - the roots are deep, but not essential. the entertainment industry informs and is informed by the rest of society so it will require shifts in the culture, which are not pre-set conditions but stuff people have influence over. there is a huge gulf between accepting that nothing can be done (or rather, insisting that nothing can be done) and a hard ban. IU expressed her discomfort with the image she was foisted with and the complexes that it saddled her with, and out of a sense of complicity or whatever, was pilloried for it and smeared in a "wdym? there's no problem, you (IU) are the pervert", and that's still how that album is often viewed. so not becoming belligerent and refusing to acknowledge a problem as it is expressed through someone's first hand experience is, for instance, something that could be done. paerarru posted... But they're being sexually exploited as idols. Not as minors. Perhaps a (not so) subtle, but important distinction. The fact that they are idols who are being sexually exploited (as usual!) who happen to be minors is incidental, I really think, at least I certainly desperately want to believe so. And I can. So I will. And on top of that they're also being just regularly exploited. But they're minors, so that compounds THAT issue. this feels like a distinction without a difference, because a minor doesn't cease being a minor when they're an idol. it's saying yes, minors are exploited, but the regular kind of exploitation that we've decided is just the way it is. the fact is that it's an industry with minors, that most enter into as minors, and that sustains itself on the hopes and dreams of minors. you're threading the needle to ease your mind which, well, i guess that's also what you're saying you're doing so carry on i guess? paerarru posted... So yeah. More to the point, we just flat out disagree here. No, I know what you mean. I still think that's a choice of interpretation. In fact I'll tell you, I think you're actually mistaken here. I don't think the girls are being portrayed THAT way there. I wrote a nice paragraph but no. I'm not even going to say anything more on this. mmm, not really. yeah, you can have your interpretation of art, but aesthetics are also part of a greater cultural body of work and criticism within a critical community. again, what makes it a dog whistle is that it functions on multiple levels so you can ignore a lot of it, and many do, and you're not automatically a creep for enjoying it. like yeah, you can also say it's just pretty kids singing a shit song. kpop fans are generally desensitized to this sort of veiled sexual expression, but find a layperson unfamiliar with kpop and show them your soft focus video of teens in adult makeup making doe eyes at an uncomfortably intimate distance, often framing just part of the face or just the lips, into a pov camera that swims around furtively, as they confess their desire for you to make the move because they don't want to get hurt, and ask what they think. --- https://i.imgur.com/CQr5Xab.gif this is a world... where azuarc eats gurus <cite>PumpkinCoach posted [p:967504860] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>paerarru posted... </cite><quote>I think the work you're talking about that would have to be done to get to that level of safety... is honestly overkill. Not to mention... I think it would be more work than you might think. The roots of these issues go VERY deep. And in many different directions, at that. I'm starting to wonder if you're the one that's too naive!</quote>you don't know how much work i think it will be. maybe this is the problem with taking too large a scope because, yes, there is a constellation of issues, some easier to tackle than others, and some that are part of the general labour struggle that needs to happen regardless of whether there are minors involved. some of it is exploitative in the way all labour under capitalism is exploitative, and there's some that are more specific to kpop (former weeekly's jiyoon spoke candidly on some of that very recently, which is worth a look). the problems are not irreducible - the roots are deep, but not essential. the entertainment industry informs and is informed by the rest of society so it will require shifts in the culture, which are not pre-set conditions but stuff people have influence over. there is a huge gulf between accepting that nothing can be done (or rather, insisting that nothing can be done) and a hard ban. IU expressed her discomfort with the image she was foisted with and the complexes that it saddled her with, and out of a sense of complicity or whatever, was pilloried for it and smeared in a "wdym? there's no problem, you (IU) are the pervert", and that's still how that album is often viewed. so not becoming belligerent and refusing to acknowledge a problem as it is expressed through someone's first hand experience is, for instance, something that could be done.paerarru posted... </cite><quote>But they're being sexually exploited as idols. Not as minors. Perhaps a (not so) subtle, but important distinction. The fact that they are idols who are being sexually exploited (as usual!) who happen to be minors is incidental, I really think, at least I certainly desperately want to believe so. And I can. So I will. And on top of that they're also being just regularly exploited. But they're minors, so that compounds THAT issue.</quote>this feels like a distinction without a difference, because a minor doesn't cease being a minor when they're an idol. it's saying yes, minors are exploited, but the regular kind of exploitation that we've decided is just the way it is. the fact is that it's an industry with minors, that most enter into as minors, and that sustains itself on the hopes and dreams of minors. you're threading the needle to ease your mind which, well, i guess that's also what you're saying you're doing so carry on i guess?paerarru posted... </cite><quote>So yeah. More to the point, we just flat out disagree here. No, I know what you mean. I still think that's a choice of interpretation. In fact I'll tell you, I think you're actually mistaken here. I don't think the girls are being portrayed THAT way there. I wrote a nice paragraph but no. I'm not even going to say anything more on this.</quote>mmm, not really. yeah, you can have your interpretation of art, but aesthetics are also part of a greater cultural body of work and criticism within a critical community. again, what makes it a dog whistle is that it functions on multiple levels so you can ignore a lot of it, and many do, and you're not automatically a creep for enjoying it. like yeah, you can also say it's just pretty kids singing a shit song. kpop fans are generally desensitized to this sort of veiled sexual expression, but find a layperson unfamiliar with kpop and show them your soft focus video of teens in adult makeup making doe eyes at an uncomfortably intimate distance, often framing just part of the face or just the lips, into a pov camera that swims around furtively, as they confess their desire for you to make the move because they don't want to get hurt, and ask what they think.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
PumpkinCoach 08/23/22 12:51:20 AM #58:	KaZooo posted... I've listened to this one a few times. It's a similar story to what I've been finding per my previous post. It's not bad, but I just don't think it really sticks with longevity. The build up is immediate, runtime is a but short and the instrumental hook is a bit of a filler. Would've been nice if they didn't lean on that "I Will Survive " sample. It's so strongly associated with the original song that it's almost impossible to try to reinvent with it. it's solid - just straight ahead, uncomplicated pop. kinda admire the straight rip on the sample in a work smarter not harder way. --- https://i.imgur.com/CQr5Xab.gif this is a world... where azuarc eats gurus <cite>PumpkinCoach posted [p:967505351] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>KaZooo posted... </cite><quote>I've listened to this one a few times. It's a similar story to what I've been finding per my previous post. It's not bad, but I just don't think it really sticks with longevity. The build up is immediate, runtime is a but short and the instrumental hook is a bit of a filler.Would've been nice if they didn't lean on that "I Will Survive " sample. It's so strongly associated with the original song that it's almost impossible to try to reinvent with it.</quote>it's solid - just straight ahead, uncomplicated pop. kinda admire the straight rip on the sample in a work smarter not harder way.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
PumpkinCoach 08/23/22 1:59:27 AM #59:	I think the work you're talking about that would have to be done to get to that level of safety... is honestly overkill. Not to mention... I think it would be more work than you might think. The roots of these issues go VERY deep. And in many different directions, at that. I'm starting to wonder if you're the one that's too naive! you don't know how much work i think it will be. maybe this is the problem with taking too large a scope because, yes, there is a constellation of issues, some easier to tackle than others, and some that are part of the general labour struggle that needs to happen regardless of whether there are minors involved. some of it is exploitative in the way all labour under capitalism is exploitative, and there's some that are more specific to kpop (former weeekly's jiyoon spoke candidly on some of that very recently, which is worth a look). the problems are not irreducible - the roots are deep, but not essential. the entertainment industry informs and is informed by the rest of society so it will require shifts in the culture, which are not pre-set conditions but stuff people have influence over. there is a huge gulf between accepting that nothing can be done (or rather, insisting that nothing can be done) and a hard ban. IU expressed her discomfort with the image she was foisted with and the complexes that it saddled her with, and out of a sense of complicity or whatever, was pilloried for it and smeared in a "wdym? there's no problem, you (IU) are the pervert", and that's still how that album is often viewed. so not becoming belligerent and refusing to acknowledge a problem as it is expressed through someone's first hand experience is, for instance, something that could be done. But they're being sexually exploited as idols. Not as minors. Perhaps a (not so) subtle, but important distinction. The fact that they are idols who are being sexually exploited (as usual!) who happen to be minors is incidental, I really think, at least I certainly desperately want to believe so. And I can. So I will. And on top of that they're also being just regularly exploited. But they're minors, so that compounds THAT issue. this feels like a distinction without a difference, because a minor doesn't cease being a minor when they're an idol. it's saying yes, minors are exploited, but the regular kind of exploitation that we've decided is just the way it is. the fact is that it's an industry with minors, that most enter into as minors, and that sustains itself on the hopes and dreams of minors. you're threading the needle to ease your mind which, well, i guess that's also what you're saying you're doing so carry on i guess? So yeah. More to the point, we just flat out disagree here. No, I know what you mean. I still think that's a choice of interpretation. In fact I'll tell you, I think you're actually mistaken here. I don't think the girls are being portrayed THAT way there. I wrote a nice paragraph but no. I'm not even going to say anything more on this. mmm, not really. yeah, you can have your interpretation of art, but aesthetics are also part of a greater cultural body of work and criticism within a critical community. again, what makes it a dog whistle is that it functions on multiple levels so you can ignore a lot of it, and many do, and you're not automatically a creep for enjoying it. kpop fans are generally desensitized to this sort of veiled sexual expression, but find a layperson unfamiliar with kpop and show them your soft focus video of teens in adult makeup making doe eyes at an uncomfortably intimate distance, often framing just part of the face or just the lips, into a pov camera that swims around furtively, as they confess their desire for you to make the move because they don't want to get hurt, and ask what they think. --- https://i.imgur.com/CQr5Xab.gif this is a world... where azuarc eats gurus <cite>PumpkinCoach posted [p:967506196] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote><quote>I think the work you're talking about that would have to be done to get to that level of safety... is honestly overkill. Not to mention... I think it would be more work than you might think. The roots of these issues go VERY deep. And in many different directions, at that. I'm starting to wonder if you're the one that's too naive!</quote>you don't know how much work i think it will be. maybe this is the problem with taking too large a scope because, yes, there is a constellation of issues, some easier to tackle than others, and some that are part of the general labour struggle that needs to happen regardless of whether there are minors involved. some of it is exploitative in the way all labour under capitalism is exploitative, and there's some that are more specific to kpop (former weeekly's jiyoon spoke candidly on some of that very recently, which is worth a look). the problems are not irreducible - the roots are deep, but not essential. the entertainment industry informs and is informed by the rest of society so it will require shifts in the culture, which are not pre-set conditions but stuff people have influence over. there is a huge gulf between accepting that nothing can be done (or rather, insisting that nothing can be done) and a hard ban. IU expressed her discomfort with the image she was foisted with and the complexes that it saddled her with, and out of a sense of complicity or whatever, was pilloried for it and smeared in a "wdym? there's no problem, you (IU) are the pervert", and that's still how that album is often viewed. so not becoming belligerent and refusing to acknowledge a problem as it is expressed through someone's first hand experience is, for instance, something that could be done.<quote>But they're being sexually exploited as idols. Not as minors. Perhaps a (not so) subtle, but important distinction. The fact that they are idols who are being sexually exploited (as usual!) who happen to be minors is incidental, I really think, at least I certainly desperately want to believe so. And I can. So I will. And on top of that they're also being just regularly exploited. But they're minors, so that compounds THAT issue.</quote>this feels like a distinction without a difference, because a minor doesn't cease being a minor when they're an idol. it's saying yes, minors are exploited, but the regular kind of exploitation that we've decided is just the way it is. the fact is that it's an industry with minors, that most enter into as minors, and that sustains itself on the hopes and dreams of minors. you're threading the needle to ease your mind which, well, i guess that's also what you're saying you're doing so carry on i guess?<quote>So yeah. More to the point, we just flat out disagree here. No, I know what you mean. I still think that's a choice of interpretation. In fact I'll tell you, I think you're actually mistaken here. I don't think the girls are being portrayed THAT way there. I wrote a nice paragraph but no. I'm not even going to say anything more on this.</quote>mmm, not really. yeah, you can have your interpretation of art, but aesthetics are also part of a greater cultural body of work and criticism within a critical community. again, what makes it a dog whistle is that it functions on multiple levels so you can ignore a lot of it, and many do, and you're not automatically a creep for enjoying it. kpop fans are generally desensitized to this sort of veiled sexual expression, but find a layperson unfamiliar with kpop and show them your soft focus video of teens in adult makeup making doe eyes at an uncomfortably intimate distance, often framing just part of the face or just the lips, into a pov camera that swims around furtively, as they confess their desire for you to make the move because they don't want to get hurt, and ask what they think.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
PumpkinCoach 08/24/22 5:54:08 PM #60:	anyways, should probably have took it to PMs - some parts of kpop are cool, and some are gross (and some are criminal, like this LPA situation). in conclusion, kpop is a land of contrasts thank you. cautiously looking forward to nmixx because i think they're mega talented and i've liked some of their covers, but their own songs are nigh unlistenable. based on the teasers so far, i think they're going for something abrasive again, but that doesn't have to be bad, though i haven't liked much out of jyp recently. --- https://i.imgur.com/CQr5Xab.gif this is a world... where azuarc eats gurus <cite>PumpkinCoach posted [p:967546381] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>anyways, should probably have took it to PMs - some parts of kpop are cool, and some are gross (and some are criminal, like this LPA situation). in conclusion, kpop is a land of contrasts thank you.cautiously looking forward to nmixx because i think they're mega talented and i've liked some of their covers, but their own songs are nigh unlistenable. based on the teasers so far, i think they're going for something abrasive again, but that doesn't have to be bad, though i haven't liked much out of jyp recently.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KaZooo 08/24/22 8:21:05 PM #61:	PumpkinCoach posted... cautiously looking forward to nmixx because i think they're mega talented and i've liked some of their covers, but their own songs are nigh unlistenable. based on the teasers so far, i think they're going for something abrasive again, but that doesn't have to be bad, though i haven't liked much out of jyp recently. Them and Xdinary Heroes. Talented for sure, but so far I haven't enjoyed the actual music/products put out. I'm inclined to think jyp doesn't actually know what to do with either group. They just got their hands on the talent so no one else can have them. --- Competing every night, both ends, shoot inside/outside, fast break, transition, Monta Ellis have it all <cite>KaZooo posted [p:967549894] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>PumpkinCoach posted... </cite><quote>cautiously looking forward to nmixx because i think they're mega talented and i've liked some of their covers, but their own songs are nigh unlistenable. based on the teasers so far, i think they're going for something abrasive again, but that doesn't have to be bad, though i haven't liked much out of jyp recently.</quote>Them and Xdinary Heroes.Talented for sure, but so far I haven't enjoyed the actual music/products put out. I'm inclined to think jyp doesn't actually know what to do with either group. They just got their hands on the talent so no one else can have them.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
PumpkinCoach 08/24/22 11:30:26 PM #62:	xdinary heroes have a pop punk thing going but they don't really commit. i think jyp lets their bands do their own thing so we'll see where they go as they develop their sound. they're really flying under the radar though - don't even have a wikipedia page. nmixx's debut was sort of maximalist and big on spectacle and since then they've done uhh some children's show theme and a remake of a rainbow b-side? it's weird, i feel like they're not getting the push you'd expect from being the new jyp girl group. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5gailJ3XyU but man, they've got a lot to work with. i can't stand o.o and tank but it's to their credit as performers that those still have their moments. though neither is more baffling than jyp's song choices for itzy lately. --- https://i.imgur.com/CQr5Xab.gif this is a world... where azuarc eats gurus <cite>PumpkinCoach posted [p:967554156] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>xdinary heroes have a pop punk thing going but they don't really commit. i think jyp lets their bands do their own thing so we'll see where they go as they develop their sound. they're really flying under the radar though - don't even have a wikipedia page.nmixx's debut was sort of maximalist and big on spectacle and since then they've done uhh some children's show theme and a remake of a rainbow b-side? it's weird, i feel like they're not getting the push you'd expect from being the new jyp girl group.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5gailJ3XyUbut man, they've got a lot to work with. i can't stand o.o and tank but it's to their credit as performers that those still have their moments.though neither is more baffling than jyp's song choices for itzy lately.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KaZooo 08/24/22 11:40:16 PM #63:	I don't do fancams (kinda think they're creepy). And I also wouldn't want to imply any kind of hair-based discrimination. But long hair changes up a lot on Winter. Fascinating to me as far as I guess visual/aesthetic "science" goes. It makes her look misleadingly taller. Supposedly she called the shots on her look/outfit for this performance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUCwupHGV74 --- Competing every night, both ends, shoot inside/outside, fast break, transition, Monta Ellis have it all <cite>KaZooo posted [p:967554317] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>I don't do fancams (kinda think they're creepy).And I also wouldn't want to imply any kind of hair-based discrimination.But long hair changes up a lot on Winter. Fascinating to me as far as I guess visual/aesthetic "science" goes. It makes her look misleadingly taller. Supposedly she called the shots on her look/outfit for this performance.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUCwupHGV74</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
YamaChan 08/25/22 4:09:13 PM #64:	KaZooo posted... I don't do fancams (kinda think they're creepy). And I also wouldn't want to imply any kind of hair-based discrimination. But long hair changes up a lot on Winter. Fascinating to me as far as I guess visual/aesthetic "science" goes. It makes her look misleadingly taller. Supposedly she called the shots on her look/outfit for this performance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUCwupHGV74 I always forget how much of a K-Pop fan you are. Truly fascinating. I tried to tag you, but it wouldn't let me so quote it is. After 1.5 years of ignoring them and their debuts, I'm finally starting to fall for the 4th gen girl groups. NewJeans was the catalyst though. I love Attention and love Hype Boy even more, and both Cookie (controversial lyrics aside) and Hurt are great songs. This generation of girl groups is going to be deep. --- "Key which hides the powers of darkness... Show your true power before me. Under the contract, Sakura commands you. Release!!" - Sakura Kinomoto <cite>YamaChan posted [p:967569293] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>KaZooo posted... </cite><quote>I don't do fancams (kinda think they're creepy).And I also wouldn't want to imply any kind of hair-based discrimination.But long hair changes up a lot on Winter. Fascinating to me as far as I guess visual/aesthetic "science" goes. It makes her look misleadingly taller. Supposedly she called the shots on her look/outfit for this performance.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUCwupHGV74</quote>I always forget how much of a K-Pop fan you are. Truly fascinating.I tried to tag you, but it wouldn't let me so quote it is.After 1.5 years of ignoring them and their debuts, I'm finally starting to fall for the 4th gen girl groups.NewJeans was the catalyst though. I love Attention and love Hype Boy even more, and both Cookie (controversial lyrics aside) and Hurt are great songs.This generation of girl groups is going to be deep.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KaZooo 08/26/22 12:11:11 AM #65:	It's that once in a blue moon where I kinda like a Twice single. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6jqx9kZgPM Had to double take at Sana @ ~1:05 mark Generally everyone had better looks Song felt mostly balanced. imo though, they gotta skip rap verses sometimes. They just aren't always needed, and sometimes break up a song in a bad way. --- Competing every night, both ends, shoot inside/outside, fast break, transition, Monta Ellis have it all <cite>KaZooo posted [p:967578999] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>It's that once in a blue moon where I kinda like a Twice single.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6jqx9kZgPMHad to double take at Sana @ ~1:05 mark Generally everyone had better looksSong felt mostly balanced.imo though, they gotta skip rap verses sometimes. They just aren't always needed, and sometimes break up a song in a bad way.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mezcla 08/26/22 12:42:14 AM #66:	KaZooo posted... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6jqx9kZgPM Jihyo said look at me im the ult bias now --- SUMIN SUMIN <cite>Mezcla posted [p:967579437] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>KaZooo posted... </cite><quote>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6jqx9kZgPM</quote>Jihyo said look at meim the ult bias now</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mezcla 08/26/22 12:44:19 AM #67:	KaZooo posted... I don't do fancams (kinda think they're creepy). And I also wouldn't want to imply any kind of hair-based discrimination. But long hair changes up a lot on Winter. Fascinating to me as far as I guess visual/aesthetic "science" goes. It makes her look misleadingly taller. Supposedly she called the shots on her look/outfit for this performance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUCwupHGV74 wow an actual fan cam and not one done by the network or just some shitty camera recording its been so long Winter is amazing --- SUMIN SUMIN <cite>Mezcla posted [p:967579464] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>KaZooo posted... </cite><quote>I don't do fancams (kinda think they're creepy).And I also wouldn't want to imply any kind of hair-based discrimination.But long hair changes up a lot on Winter. Fascinating to me as far as I guess visual/aesthetic "science" goes. It makes her look misleadingly taller. Supposedly she called the shots on her look/outfit for this performance.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUCwupHGV74</quote>wow an actual fan cam and not one done by the network or just some shitty camera recordingits been so longWinter is amazing</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
paerarru 08/27/22 9:08:17 PM #68:	YamaChan posted... I always forget how much of a K-Pop fan you are. Truly fascinating. I tried to tag you, but it wouldn't let me so quote it is. After 1.5 years of ignoring them and their debuts, I'm finally starting to fall for the 4th gen girl groups. NewJeans was the catalyst though. I love Attention and love Hype Boy even more, and both Cookie (controversial lyrics aside) and Hurt are great songs. This generation of girl groups is going to be deep. I think a lot of older fans go through this one way or another. In a way I also tried resisting in the beginning, that feeling of comfort in what you already know, or whatever it is, but even though I do feel the generational gap (which I already had when I first became a fan, which might be why I have an easy time dealing with it) it's still just darn good Kpop. And yeah whatever one's opinions on Cookiegate, it can't be denied that NewJeans has given the industry a good and much needed shake up. I remember when I think Kazoo posted Attention, which came completely out of left field, the first thing I thought was okay I'm done, this is the end for me, surely THIS is too new and different. But the more I heard the more I liked. And now I could spend pages analyzing and then praising every little thing; they're just brilliant. There's no need to reinvent the wheel, just make a nice round wheel. Yes take the choreos for example, I completely agree, praise where praise is due, they're fun, they're simple, and they just go naturally with the songs, complementing their looks and their voices, which is what they're supposed to do. aespa is still my number 1 this gen but SM better step up their game if they want to keep them there, because NewJeans pushed everybody else down a spot. Not an easy feat this year. And now with this kind of success the girls are gonna get raised on primo idol chow and make mincemeat out of everyone else. So yeah bring it on. KaZooo posted... It's that once in a blue moon where I kinda like a Twice single. Again I think Twice has become a lot more interesting in recent years. Best they've ever been, and I actually really like very early Twice. --- Hottest K-Pop Girl Group http://challonge.com/96st4ysk <cite>paerarru posted [p:967620183] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>YamaChan posted... </cite><quote>I always forget how much of a K-Pop fan you are. Truly fascinating.I tried to tag you, but it wouldn't let me so quote it is.After 1.5 years of ignoring them and their debuts, I'm finally starting to fall for the 4th gen girl groups.NewJeans was the catalyst though. I love Attention and love Hype Boy even more, and both Cookie (controversial lyrics aside) and Hurt are great songs.This generation of girl groups is going to be deep.</quote>I think a lot of older fans go through this one way or another. In a way I also tried resisting in the beginning, that feeling of comfort in what you already know, or whatever it is, but even though I do feel the generational gap (which I already had when I first became a fan, which might be why I have an easy time dealing with it) it's still just darn good Kpop.And yeah whatever one's opinions on Cookiegate, it can't be denied that NewJeans has given the industry a good and much needed shake up. I remember when I think Kazoo posted Attention, which came completely out of left field, the first thing I thought was okay I'm done, this is the end for me, surely THIS is too new and different. But the more I heard the more I liked. And now I could spend pages analyzing and then praising every little thing; they're just brilliant. There's no need to reinvent the wheel, just make a nice round wheel. Yes take the choreos for example, I completely agree, praise where praise is due, they're fun, they're simple, and they just go naturally with the songs, complementing their looks and their voices, which is what they're supposed to do.aespa is still my number 1 this gen but SM better step up their game if they want to keep them there, because NewJeans pushed everybody else down a spot. Not an easy feat this year. And now with this kind of success the girls are gonna get raised on primo idol chow and make mincemeat out of everyone else. So yeah bring it on.KaZooo posted... </cite><quote>It's that once in a blue moon where I kinda like a Twice single.</quote>Again I think Twice has become a lot more interesting in recent years. Best they've ever been, and I actually really like very early Twice.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KaZooo 08/27/22 11:34:36 PM #69:	paerarru posted... aespa is still my number 1 this gen but SM better step up their game if they want to keep them there I feel the same. The more simpler and musically-focused directions of StayC and NewJeans is just far more appreciative. It's like rewinding to 90's/early 00's female* pop. I think everyone's wearing out on the in-your-face, over-the-top, loud, high tempo direction. Like said earlier, NMIXX seems like an idea only partly thought out. Same with Lapillus. For the life of me I couldn't digest wtf that single of theirs was. also, I can't find interest with male groups. Last I really enjoyed was EXO-CBX because that felt like a version of Bell Biv DeVoe. NCT can have a good single here or there, and are stupid talented that most other groups only hope to copy, but they come off like a machine. --- Competing every night, both ends, shoot inside/outside, fast break, transition, Monta Ellis have it all* <cite>KaZooo posted [p:967622546] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>paerarru posted... </cite><quote>aespa is still my number 1 this gen but SM better step up their game if they want to keep them there</quote>I feel the same.The more simpler and musically-focused directions of StayC and NewJeans is just far more appreciative. It's like rewinding to 90's/early 00's female* pop.I think everyone's wearing out on the in-your-face, over-the-top, loud, high tempo direction. Like said earlier, NMIXX seems like an idea only partly thought out. Same with Lapillus. For the life of me I couldn't digest wtf that single of theirs was.*also, I can't find interest with male groups. Last I really enjoyed was EXO-CBX because that felt like a version of Bell Biv DeVoe. NCT can have a good single here or there, and are stupid talented that most other groups only hope to copy, but they come off like a machine. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KaZooo 08/29/22 1:03:26 AM #70:	Sit-down restaurant I was at was playing "Attention" today. We made it guys. --- Competing every night, both ends, shoot inside/outside, fast break, transition, Monta Ellis have it all <cite>KaZooo posted [p:967644843] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>Sit-down restaurant I was at was playing "Attention" today. We made it guys.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mezcla 08/29/22 9:35:35 AM #71:	KaZooo posted... Sit-down restaurant I was at was playing "Attention" today. We made it guys. Amazing --- SUMIN SUMIN <cite>Mezcla posted [p:967649377] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>KaZooo posted... </cite><quote>Sit-down restaurant I was at was playing "Attention" today. We made it guys.</quote>Amazing</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KaZooo 08/30/22 9:52:09 PM #72:	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiJ9cdx5QM4 imo her and Liz are the best vocalists in IVE. Rei is a bit more a curious matter as she's the foreign member and her accent/pronunciation can be be peculiar at times. I think it was the "Love Dive" studio recording vid where she clearly sounded more on top of her notes than everyone else. --- Competing every night, both ends, shoot inside/outside, fast break, transition, Monta Ellis have it all <cite>KaZooo posted [p:967688781] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiJ9cdx5QM4imo her and Liz are the best vocalists in IVE. Rei is a bit more a curious matter as she's the foreign member and her accent/pronunciation can be be peculiar at times. I think it was the "Love Dive" studio recording vid where she clearly sounded more on top of her notes than everyone else.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mezcla 09/01/22 12:10:04 AM #73:	lmao im fucking dead https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHr1juD1GSg --- SUMIN SUMIN <cite>Mezcla posted [p:967714463] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>lmao im fucking deadhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHr1juD1GSg</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KaZooo 09/01/22 12:46:33 AM #74:	lol actually, becoming a meme song would only help it. --- Competing every night, both ends, shoot inside/outside, fast break, transition, Monta Ellis have it all <cite>KaZooo posted [p:967714917] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>lolactually, becoming a meme song would only help it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mezcla 09/01/22 11:42:08 AM #75:	Also, a certain member of that group just had a birthday, i wondering if she's blowing up a certain nfsw kpop subreddit... --- SUMIN SUMIN <cite>Mezcla posted [p:967722254] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>Also, a certain member of that group just had a birthday, i wondering if she's blowing up a certain nfsw kpop subreddit...</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
paerarru 09/01/22 12:48:36 PM #76:	Mezcla posted... Also, a certain member of that group just had a birthday, i wondering if she's blowing up a certain nfsw kpop subreddit... You can set your watch to those. --- Hottest K-Pop Girl Group http://challonge.com/96st4ysk <cite>paerarru posted [p:967723623] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>Mezcla posted... </cite><quote>Also, a certain member of that group just had a birthday, i wondering if she's blowing up a certain nfsw kpop subreddit...</quote>You can set your watch to those.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
paerarru 09/01/22 2:02:25 PM #77:	KaZooo posted... Sit-down restaurant I was at was playing "Attention" today. We made it guys. Amazing, for the girls it must be pretty unreal, just thinking about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CktgcnjlQ0w They came together with some exposure beforehand but as idols they went from pretty much unknowns to top group in record time. Now so many fans, we just want to see them happy and succeed. Say what you want, Min Heejin captured the LOVE of idol pop. And from one of the newest groups to one of the oldest. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_KSL1You28 They can't even look at each other without tearing up lol... Man, 15 years in a freaking Kpop group. THAT is love. --- Hottest K-Pop Girl Group http://challonge.com/96st4ysk <cite>paerarru posted [p:967725127] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>KaZooo posted... </cite><quote>Sit-down restaurant I was at was playing "Attention" today. We made it guys.</quote>Amazing, for the girls it must be pretty unreal, just thinking about it.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CktgcnjlQ0wThey came together with some exposure beforehand but as idols they went from pretty much unknowns to top group in record time. Now so many fans, we just want to see them happy and succeed. Say what you want, Min Heejin captured the LOVE of idol pop.And from one of the newest groups to one of the oldest.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_KSL1You28They can't even look at each other without tearing up lol... Man, 15 years in a freaking Kpop group. THAT is love.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mezcla 09/01/22 11:34:18 PM #78:	So I went to that subreddit. Uh you know. For research. theyre equally gushing over her and disgusted by her weight. Strange. in other news, yall see Nayeons outfit the other day<_< --- SUMIN SUMIN <cite>Mezcla posted [p:967736481] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>So I went to that subreddit. Uh you know. For research. theyre equally gushing over her and disgusted by her weight. Strange. in other news, yall see Nayeons outfit the other day<_<</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
paerarru 09/03/22 1:06:02 AM #79:	Mezcla posted... So I went to that subreddit. Uh you know. For research. XD No worries, I did the field work... so you guys wouldn't have to! Yeah. theyre equally gushing over her and disgusted by her weight. Strange. Mmm, this is one of the things I don't like about that community, some people. Be it Wonyo's weight or whatever, no need to be nasty. in other news, yall see Nayeons outfit the other day<_< Which one >_> https://www.instagram.com/nayeonyny/ Point to the picture where the idol made you feel things, Mez. --- Hottest K-Pop Girl Group http://challonge.com/96st4ysk <cite>paerarru posted [p:967759232] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>Mezcla posted... </cite><quote>So I went to that subreddit. Uh you know. For research. </quote>XD No worries, I did the field work... so you guys wouldn't have to! Yeah.<quote>theyre equally gushing over her and disgusted by her weight. Strange. </quote>Mmm, this is one of the things I don't like about that community, some people. Be it Wonyo's weight or whatever, no need to be nasty.<quote>in other news, yall see Nayeons outfit the other day<_<</quote>Which one >_>https://www.instagram.com/nayeonyny/Point to the picture where the idol made you feel things, Mez.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KaZooo 09/03/22 3:29:05 AM #80:	Mezcla posted... theyre equally gushing over her and disgusted by her weight. Strange. I don't think it's her (herself), but the impression people are getting with what kind of image the industry tries to promote. Her proportions are a little more dramatic. I wouldn't criticize her, but out of early impressions, she does look concerningly skinny. I haven't heard of any attributes of fragility or health issues, and it seems like it's just the case of legitimately having a "supermodel" figure. The babyface, kinda singular aesthetic is probably also wearing on her critics. Me personally, I'm not hating. I'm just seeing there's a lack of versatility being showcased if we had to review the technical side of visuals which is generally its own can of worms in this industry. So that + her figure + her singing and dancing not exactly being anywhere close to exceptional (well, she's not awful either), and then being at the forefront of two groups, I get that it doesn't sit entirely right with some people. She's at the forefront predominantly due to a particular aspect of her visual (her figure). Comparisons are also something we wouldn't really want to get into, but it's hard to miss what other leads/faces do that she doesn't. Don't get me wrong though, that doesn't warrant directing criticisms at her. I think it's particularly fascinating when people with traits or qualities that are believed to land them in other industries, end up in this one. Itzy Yuna and Weki's Doyeon are similar. Lesserafim's Kazuha coming from a ballet academy is also an interesting one. --- Competing every night, both ends, shoot inside/outside, fast break, transition, Monta Ellis have it all <cite>KaZooo posted [p:967760453] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>Mezcla posted... </cite><quote>theyre equally gushing over her and disgusted by her weight. Strange.</quote>I don't think it's her (herself), but the impression people are getting with what kind of image the industry tries to promote.Her proportions are a little more dramatic. I wouldn't criticize her, but out of early impressions, she does look concerningly skinny. I haven't heard of any attributes of fragility or health issues, and it seems like it's just the case of legitimately having a "supermodel" figure.The babyface, kinda singular aesthetic is probably also wearing on her critics. Me personally, I'm not hating. I'm just seeing there's a lack of versatility being showcased if we had to review the technical side of visuals which is generally its own can of worms in this industry.So that + her figure + her singing and dancing not exactly being anywhere close to exceptional (well, she's not awful either), and then being at the forefront of two groups, I get that it doesn't sit entirely right with some people. She's at the forefront predominantly due to a particular aspect of her visual (her figure). Comparisons are also something we wouldn't really want to get into, but it's hard to miss what other leads/faces do that she doesn't.Don't get me wrong though, that doesn't warrant directing criticisms at her. I think it's particularly fascinating when people with traits or qualities that are believed to land them in other industries, end up in this one. Itzy Yuna and Weki's Doyeon are similar. Lesserafim's Kazuha coming from a ballet academy is also an interesting one.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MixedRaceBaby 09/03/22 12:13:31 PM #81:	paerarru posted... Which one >_> https://www.instagram.com/nayeonyny/ Point to the picture where the idol made you feel things, Mez. I believe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYuJit8Qr2A --- For the mixed race babies! <cite>MixedRaceBaby posted [p:967765816] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>paerarru posted... </cite><quote>Which one >_>https://www.instagram.com/nayeonyny/Point to the picture where the idol made you feel things, Mez.</quote>I believe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYuJit8Qr2A</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KaZooo 09/04/22 3:23:13 AM #82:	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SMURg7toPM Don't want to hate on her own creativity/preferences, but I haven't been much of a fan of her solo works. Much prefer IzOne and covers like this. --- Competing every night, both ends, shoot inside/outside, fast break, transition, Monta Ellis have it all* <cite>KaZooo posted [p:967781959] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SMURg7toPMDon't want to hate on her own creativity/preferences, but I haven't been much of a fan of her solo works. Much prefer Iz*One and covers like this. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
paerarru 09/04/22 10:43:20 PM #83:	MixedRaceBaby posted... I believe O.O KaZooo posted... I don't think it's her (herself), but the impression people are getting with what kind of image the industry tries to promote. Nah... in this particular subreddit, it's her. But you're right, normally that would be the reason. And that's just a whole other mess. Her proportions are a little more dramatic. I wouldn't criticize her, but out of early impressions, she does look concerningly skinny. I haven't heard of any attributes of fragility or health issues, and it seems like it's just the case of legitimately having a "supermodel" figure. I will agree that her weight looks concerning at times. You're right, that doesn't necessarily mean there's anything unhealthy going on... except frailty itself can be unhealthy. Unlike being overweight there's not that many inherent health issues, but it does mean you're less resistant overall, to disease for example, as well as there being possible nutritional issues that may lead to other problems. With that said yeah, for many reasons I don't want to criticize her too much. She gets a lot of criticism if not plain hate for many, usually dumb reasons. Don't get me wrong either, your remarks are perfectly valid... I just disagree with the takes some people come up with. Anyways, in possibly related (?) news, I simply can't stand BP anymore. Which is too bad because I love the girls. But I gotta confess I tried clicking mute on Pink Venom to see if I could enjoy it that way. ~~And I did.~~ --- Hottest K-Pop Girl Group http://challonge.com/96st4ysk <cite>paerarru posted [p:967799483] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>MixedRaceBaby posted... </cite><quote>I believe</quote>O.OKaZooo posted... </cite><quote>I don't think it's her (herself), but the impression people are getting with what kind of image the industry tries to promote.</quote>Nah... in this particular subreddit, it's her.But you're right, normally that would be the reason. And that's just a whole other mess.<quote>Her proportions are a little more dramatic. I wouldn't criticize her, but out of early impressions, she does look concerningly skinny. I haven't heard of any attributes of fragility or health issues, and it seems like it's just the case of legitimately having a "supermodel" figure.</quote>I will agree that her weight looks concerning at times. You're right, that doesn't necessarily mean there's anything unhealthy going on... except frailty itself can be unhealthy. Unlike being overweight there's not that many inherent health issues, but it does mean you're less resistant overall, to disease for example, as well as there being possible nutritional issues that may lead to other problems.With that said yeah, for many reasons I don't want to criticize her too much. She gets a lot of criticism if not plain hate for many, usually dumb reasons. Don't get me wrong either, your remarks are perfectly valid... I just disagree with the takes some people come up with.Anyways, in possibly related (?) news, I simply can't stand BP anymore. Which is too bad because I love the girls. But I gotta confess I tried clicking mute on Pink Venom to see if I could enjoy it that way. And I did.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KaZooo 09/05/22 3:54:30 AM #84:	Already at an awards event. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrlcHAXGduo --- Competing every night, both ends, shoot inside/outside, fast break, transition, Monta Ellis have it all <cite>KaZooo posted [p:967803720] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>Already at an awards event.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrlcHAXGduo</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Memorial_Bench 09/07/22 6:16:35 AM #85:	This video contains content from KBS Media, who has blocked it on copyright grounds -_- --- Thank You <cite>Memorial_Bench posted [p:967848589] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>This video contains content from KBS Media, who has blocked it on copyright grounds-_-</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KaZooo 09/07/22 9:31:54 AM #86:	It was Jeans at the Korean broadcast awards. We made it. --- Competing every night, both ends, shoot inside/outside, fast break, transition, Monta Ellis have it all <cite>KaZooo posted [p:967850861] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>It was Jeans at the Korean broadcast awards.We made it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KaZooo 09/10/22 2:37:50 AM #87:	Mics seem on here, but they've willingly gone into a couple other live performances iirc. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GL2QFKnhxv8 --- Competing every night, both ends, shoot inside/outside, fast break, transition, Monta Ellis have it all <cite>KaZooo posted [p:967918882] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>Mics seem on here, but they've willingly gone into a couple other live performances iirc.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GL2QFKnhxv8</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
paerarru 09/10/22 5:58:49 AM #88:	Memorial_Bench posted... This video contains content from KBS Media, who has blocked it on copyright grounds -_- They blocked it really quick lol, it was like within the first couple hours. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhRgoLReeFE I don't know why they're so restrictive with these, they're just broadcasting awards, I guess they're just supposed to, they did the same with aespa, remember? Anyways, made it! The last (not today's) RM episode starts with Attention playing! That's gotta be some kind of record, too. I hope HYBE starts sending them out everywhere, the sooner the better. I love all the stuff they've been putting out on their own but I wanna see them out and about! Tsuki, Sullyoon and Eunbi were great also but as expected Xiaoting is on a whole other level here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4J-g7ida_WE --- Hottest K-Pop Girl Group http://challonge.com/96st4ysk <cite>paerarru posted [p:967920375] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>Memorial_Bench posted... </cite><quote>This video contains content from KBS Media, who has blocked it on copyright grounds-_-</quote>They blocked it really quick lol, it was like within the first couple hours.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhRgoLReeFEI don't know why they're so restrictive with these, they're just broadcasting awards, I guess they're just supposed to, they did the same with aespa, remember? Anyways, made it! The last (not today's) RM episode starts with Attention playing! That's gotta be some kind of record, too. I hope HYBE starts sending them out everywhere, the sooner the better. I love all the stuff they've been putting out on their own but I wanna see them out and about!Tsuki, Sullyoon and Eunbi were great also but as expected Xiaoting is on a whole other level here.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4J-g7ida_WE</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KainWind 09/12/22 2:23:47 PM #89:	Help what is happening? https://youtu.be/a-V1CFBGqNk --- Momentai <cite>KainWind posted [p:967973660] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>Help what is happening?https://youtu.be/a-V1CFBGqNk</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KaZooo 09/12/22 11:31:43 PM #90:	gross with that nail trimming but yeah that's a lot happening. --- Competing every night, both ends, shoot inside/outside, fast break, transition, Monta Ellis have it all <cite>KaZooo posted [p:967986474] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>gross with that nail trimmingbut yeah that's a lot happening.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KaZooo 09/14/22 1:51:13 AM #91:	another BP M/V dropping soon. Meh --- Competing every night, both ends, shoot inside/outside, fast break, transition, Monta Ellis have it all <cite>KaZooo posted [p:968018800] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>another BP M/V dropping soon.Meh</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
paerarru 09/14/22 8:52:46 PM #92:	Hey at least RV is getting something. Most fans were already resigned to waiting for our next yearly comeback, if that. SM expects you to take it and say thank you. --- Hottest K-Pop Girl Group http://challonge.com/96st4ysk <cite>paerarru posted [p:968039183] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>Hey at least RV is getting something. Most fans were already resigned to waiting for our next yearly comeback, if that. SM expects you to take it and say thank you.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KaZooo 09/16/22 12:07:45 AM #93:	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POe9SOEKotk Routine BP gripe for me this time is the writing. That was lazy with a mix of the same recycled context. Instrumental and flow had potential. --- Competing every night, both ends, shoot inside/outside, fast break, transition, Monta Ellis have it all <cite>KaZooo posted [p:968067942] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POe9SOEKotkRoutine BP gripe for me this time is the writing. That was lazy with a mix of the same recycled context.Instrumental and flow had potential.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
paerarru 09/16/22 3:42:54 PM #94:	KaZooo posted... Routine BP gripe for me this time is the writing. That was lazy with a mix of the same recycled context. Instrumental and flow had potential. Yeah, this one wasn't that bad I guess. Still didn't give me much (well, not musically...), but at least I can listen to it. --- Hottest K-Pop Girl Group http://challonge.com/96st4ysk <cite>paerarru posted [p:968082100] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>KaZooo posted... </cite><quote>Routine BP gripe for me this time is the writing. That was lazy with a mix of the same recycled context.Instrumental and flow had potential.</quote>Yeah, this one wasn't that bad I guess. Still didn't give me much (well, not musically...), but at least I can listen to it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KaZooo 09/17/22 1:31:57 AM #95:	Yong and Mark literally found 2 Baddies https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Onc9IPWCSms --- Competing every night, both ends, shoot inside/outside, fast break, transition, Monta Ellis have it all <cite>KaZooo posted [p:968093905] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>Yong and Mark literally found 2 Baddieshttps://www.youtube.com/shorts/Onc9IPWCSms</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KaZooo 09/18/22 3:34:03 PM #96:	Lesserafim comeback next month? Saw a bit of their documentary. Can't really say I'm ever into that kind of stuff, but I was wondering if how they'd get around the whole Garam thing. Strong production value, but in the face of NewJeans, there's higher expectation for it to translate into something really good. --- Competing every night, both ends, shoot inside/outside, fast break, transition, Monta Ellis have it all <cite>KaZooo posted [p:968127503] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>Lesserafim comeback next month?Saw a bit of their documentary. Can't really say I'm ever into that kind of stuff, but I was wondering if how they'd get around the whole Garam thing.Strong production value, but in the face of NewJeans, there's higher expectation for it to translate into something really good.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KaZooo 09/19/22 9:47:08 PM #97:	Feel like the change up is a gimmick more than anything. It's not anything compelling like Sicko Mode. Overall it's less of a mess than their previous track, but now it's just vague. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1bjnyDqI9k --- Competing every night, both ends, shoot inside/outside, fast break, transition, Monta Ellis have it all <cite>KaZooo posted [p:968160672] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>Feel like the change up is a gimmick more than anything. It's not anything compelling like Sicko Mode.Overall it's less of a mess than their previous track, but now it's just vague.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1bjnyDqI9k</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
PumpkinCoach 09/19/22 10:28:47 PM #98:	PumpkinCoach posted... cautiously looking forward to nmixx because i think they're mega talented and i've liked some of their covers, but their own songs are nigh unlistenable. based on the teasers so far, i think they're going for something abrasive again, but that doesn't have to be bad, though i haven't liked much out of jyp recently. well, better luck next time i guess! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEOgUxpwskI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwNOq7wJF5g at least we'll keep getting nice covers. --- https://i.imgur.com/CQr5Xab.gif this is a world... where azuarc eats gurus <cite>PumpkinCoach posted [p:968161713] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>PumpkinCoach posted... </cite><quote>cautiously looking forward to nmixx because i think they're mega talented and i've liked some of their covers, but their own songs are nigh unlistenable. based on the teasers so far, i think they're going for something abrasive again, but that doesn't have to be bad, though i haven't liked much out of jyp recently.</quote>well, better luck next time i guess!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEOgUxpwskIhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwNOq7wJF5gat least we'll keep getting nice covers. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MedeaLysistrata 09/20/22 4:27:05 PM #99:	is f(x) still around? and recent Twice album --- Please join the 100 Presidents community board and contribute to the project! Check back for updates! https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/1568-100-presidents <cite>MedeaLysistrata posted [p:968177653] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>is f(x) still around? and recent Twice album</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KaZooo 09/20/22 8:32:20 PM #100:	MedeaLysistrata posted... is f(x) still around? and recent Twice album F(x) is pretty much done Krystal probably aligns with Jessica Luna had mental health problems iirc Sounds like they did Amber dirty and she up and doesn't want anything to do with the industry. --- Competing every night, both ends, shoot inside/outside, fast break, transition, Monta Ellis have it all <cite>KaZooo posted [p:968183187] in K-Pop summ... [t:80107225]...</cite> <quote>MedeaLysistrata posted... </cite><quote>is f(x) still around? and recent Twice album</quote>F(x) is pretty much doneKrystal probably aligns with JessicaLuna had mental health problems iircSounds like they did Amber dirty and she up and doesn't want anything to do with the industry. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > K-Pop summer topic part 2 (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > K-Pop summer topic part 2