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LinkMarioSamus 05/21/22 10:56:18 AM #1: |
This is probably going to be the most LMS topic ever, but here goes. -If Adam Malkovich barking orders at Samus in Other M is supposed to be sexist towards women, then why is Vice Admiral Holdo viewing Poe similarly contemptuously in The Last Jedi supposed to be sexist towards men? Then logically shouldn't neither be sexist, or are people just not allowed to bark orders at others of the opposite sex? -It seems like Wanda's character arc in the new Doctor Strange movie is accused of being woke for covering similar territory that got Other M labelled sexist. Is it really a difference that Wanda's maternal instincts empower her vs. hindering Samus? --- Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders? ... Copied to Clipboard!
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ExThaNemesis 05/21/22 11:00:24 AM #2: |
neither is inherently sexist and viewing media through these lenses is so fuckin' stupid --- "undertale hangs out with mido" - ZFS Smash Ultimate Switch Code: SW-6933-1523-8505 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Aecioo 05/21/22 11:00:38 AM #3: |
yesssssssssssss --- http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lcb35gGx0t1qailr4o1_500.gif http://www.megavideo.com/?v=57N0YAEJ ... Copied to Clipboard!
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colliding 05/21/22 11:10:14 AM #4: |
Never played Other M, but Holdo's speaking with Poe isn't sexist. Holdo is purposefully made to be a non-sympathetic character in order to play with sexist tropes associated with women in leadership. I don't know what you mean when you say "is there a difference" in the second point. I think motherhood / maternal instincts are complicated characteristics and any film that simplifies them into either a complete negative/positive is doing storytelling a disservice. --- while you slept, the world changed ... Copied to Clipboard!
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VintageGin 05/21/22 11:12:06 AM #5: |
LinkMarioSamus posted... This is probably going to be the most LMS topic ever, but here goes. Even after reading this, I still wasn't prepared --- Ginhyun http://i.imgur.com/t7G7uoU.gif ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Johnbobb 05/21/22 11:16:26 AM #6: |
Jesus Christ --- Khal Kirby, warlord of the Super Star Khalasar PSN/Steam: CheddarBBQ https://goo.gl/Diw2hs ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Leonhart4 05/21/22 11:17:35 AM #7: |
Stop watching the YouTube randos you insist you don't watch anymore but clearly still do --- https://imgur.com/WqDcNNq https://imgur.com/89Z5jrB ... Copied to Clipboard!
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LinkMarioSamus 05/21/22 11:33:16 AM #8: |
I don't, I just have seen so many of them it's difficult to pull myself out of the rabbit hole. --- Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders? ... Copied to Clipboard!
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LinkMarioSamus 05/21/22 11:34:23 AM #9: |
ExThaNemesis posted... neither is inherently sexist and viewing media through these lenses is so fuckin' stupid Honestly I agree. I feel like people make way to big a deal out of MOM and TLJ being sexist. Even though the former does deserve to be called such, the latter doesn't remotely and I feel like saying anyone who thinks TLJ is "anti-male" is functionally a misogynist. --- Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders? ... Copied to Clipboard!
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ChaosTonyV4 05/21/22 12:27:48 PM #10: |
--- Phantom Dust. "I'll just wait for time to prove me right again." - Vlado ... Copied to Clipboard!
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redrocket 05/21/22 12:43:10 PM #12: |
LinkMarioSamus posted... Honestly I agree. I feel like people make way to big a deal out of MOM and TLJ being sexist. Slow down there. That type of dynamic is not Inherently sexist, but in MOM it is sexist in practice. --- It's like paying for bubble wrap. -transience on Final Fantasy: All the Bravest ... Copied to Clipboard!
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NFUN 05/21/22 1:05:08 PM #13: |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUbp68V3mhM --- Kneel... or you will be knelt ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Steiner 05/21/22 1:10:13 PM #14: |
why the fuck would i click this topic --- Born to bear and bring to all the details of our ending To write it down for all the world to see ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Sheep007 05/21/22 1:19:10 PM #15: |
ExThaNemesis posted... neither is inherently sexist and viewing media through these lenses is so fuckin' stupidGonna piggyback on this a bit and say I think viewing media through a gendered/feminist lens is incredibly valuable. We'd get way better media (and media criticism) if more people did it well cause god knows most popular media doesn't have a bloody clue how to treat gender. But that would require actually thinking about something and trying to understand it. Going "[thing] happens in this media so it's sexist/not sexist!" misses the point at best, and is a shameless and lazy grift at worst. I think an above post kinda sums it up. Most things aren't inherently sexist, but there's very good reasons to be uncomfortable with what MOM conveys and how it conveys it - even if a similar basic idea can be communicated in a far less sexist way. --- Perhaps the golden rock was inside us all along. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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CassandraCain 05/21/22 1:31:28 PM #16: |
Wait how is MOM sexist --- I don't kill... but I don't lose either. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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pjbasis 05/21/22 1:34:41 PM #17: |
I need that McMahon meme for my emotions reading the topic title and then the opening posts. --- http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr345/Rakaputra/B8%20Girls%202012/pjbas.png ... Copied to Clipboard!
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LinkMarioSamus 05/21/22 1:39:53 PM #18: |
redrocket posted... Slow down there. That type of dynamic is not Inherently sexist, but in MOM it is sexist in practice. I think there are certainly sexist aspects in the plot, but Adam doesn't look down on Samus for being a woman. And neither does Holdo to Poe for being a man. At least in the case of MOM I get why due to Samus being on a pedestal as one of gaming's greatest heroines so in that case it's not really the same? With TLJ, I've felt like the whole deal about male characters being "useless" in the film is something you wouldn't notice unless you were keeping a close eye on the gender of every performer in the cast which strikes me as suspect to begin with. Also arguably misses part of the point of the film. Likewise I also find it amusing people act like Rey is "perfect" when she succeeds at nothing in the film. Which to me came across as the whole point - even the most powerful person can't solve every problem themselves (ignore Rise of Skywalker). --- Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders? ... Copied to Clipboard!
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htaeD 05/21/22 1:40:29 PM #19: |
CassandraCain posted... Wait how is MOM sexist Because Samus literally has to let the men do everything --- Sword IGN: Pandora Brilliant Diamond IGN: Aurora ... Copied to Clipboard!
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CassandraCain 05/21/22 1:42:00 PM #20: |
Poor Samus forgot she had an arm cannon --- I don't kill... but I don't lose either. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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HanOfTheNekos 05/21/22 1:50:39 PM #21: |
wait, did you mean Metroid: Other M or Multiverse of Madness? --- "Bordate is a pretty shady place, what with the gangs, casinos, evil corporations and water park." - FAHtastic ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Kenri 05/21/22 1:51:38 PM #23: |
It's hard to analyze Other M from a feminist framework because the whole game is so poorly written. Is it trying to be feminist and failing or trying to be sexist and failing? Tough call but either way it's failing. Also, please go touch grass LMS --- Congrats to BKSheikah, who knows more about years than anyone else. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Lightning Strikes 05/21/22 1:52:40 PM #24: |
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/4/5/AAEfmDAADQT9.jpg --- I just decided to change this sig. Blaaaaaaargh azuarc ... Copied to Clipboard!
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htaeD 05/21/22 2:02:40 PM #25: |
HanOfTheNekos posted... wait, did you mean Metroid: Other M or Multiverse of Madness? God damn it --- Sword IGN: Pandora Brilliant Diamond IGN: Aurora ... Copied to Clipboard!
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CassandraCain 05/21/22 2:06:13 PM #26: |
Kenri posted... Also, please go touch grass LMS Yeah please do --- I don't kill... but I don't lose either. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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demonfang178 05/21/22 3:05:55 PM #27: |
LinkMarioSamus posted... -It seems like Wanda's character arc in the new Doctor Strange movie is accused of being woke f Okay. I haven't seen this and I actively go looking for this shit. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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The_REAL_Duke_O 05/21/22 3:13:31 PM #28: |
LinkMarioSamus posted... This is probably going to be the most LMS topic ever, but here goes. I've played ALL of Other M. Adam barking orders at Samus is NOT sexist. To explain, Samus viewed Adam as a FATHER figure. She is agreeing to follow Adam's orders due to her viewing him as a father. Under other circumstances she would NOT be following his orders, but because she knows him and considers him a father figure, she will listen to him. So no, it's not sexist. Other M focuses a lot on daddy issues and mommy issues (EX # 1 of many of the mommy issues in Other M: Samus blabbing about: "The Baby!! The baby! blah, blah, blah, the BABY, blah, blah blah, etc, etc, etc)", not feminist / sexist issues. Now, is Adam highly incompetent at his job? Oh, hell yes. He is the most incompetent commanding officer I have ever seen in a video game. He sucks as his job. He does not give out orders out of being sexist. But he does give out highly incompetent orders because he is highly incompetent at his job. The orders he gave out in the Volcano scene in Other M is a damn good example of Adam being an idiot at his job. --- I want my Earthbound!!! ... Copied to Clipboard!
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htaeD 05/21/22 3:32:25 PM #29: |
I also hear the english translation did a terrible job at characterizing an already odd relationship. Instead of Samus saying she had no regrets about what she did that made Adam mad with her, instead she comes across as someone desperate to redeem herself in his eyes. --- Sword IGN: Pandora Brilliant Diamond IGN: Aurora ... Copied to Clipboard!
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OrangeCrush980 05/21/22 4:25:51 PM #30: |
LinkMarioSamus posted... This is probably going to be the most LMS topic ever, but here goes. Jesus Christ, you weren't kidding --- "I came back from space, and as I returned, I had one vision... the world set ablaze!" - Yuri Gagarin, Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater ... Copied to Clipboard!
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LinkMarioSamus 05/21/22 4:42:28 PM #31: |
The_REAL_Duke_O posted... I've played ALL of Other M. Honestly yeah that's a real head-scratcher, Samus idolizing a glorified Hate Sink so much. But from what I gather half the accusations of sexism aimed at Other M are more aimed at seeming desecration of a feminist icon than they are at actually making women look bad...not that Other M is free of that though. Honestly I feel like you can rationalize a lot of the weird aspects of the game's plot but it amounts to doing the director's homework for him. No thanks. For those of you wondering how I did a complete 180 with Other M...look, sometimes you get excited for the hot new thing and it takes you a while for your hype to die down and realize it isn't that good. Plus I've seen a lot more movies since and I have a better grasp of good and bad storytelling. And Other M's plot is one of the few cases where I'd say calls of "character assassination" and "plot holes" are fully warranted since people bandy about those terms so much nowadays they have basically lost all meaning. Part of it is also I feel like the game was never THAT hated, only marginally more than something like Jurassic Park III or Kingdom of the Crystal Skull and certainly nowhere near as intensely as something like The Last Jedi. It's just Nintendo rarely makes such a big misfire that continues to fascinate me somewhat, but even then they took Metroid back to the drawing board and it wound up paying off for many. And even then, I wound up watching Batman & Robin for a lot of the reasons I'm seemingly obsessed with Other M and didn't remotely regret it. --- Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders? ... Copied to Clipboard!
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foolm0r0n 05/21/22 7:44:53 PM #32: |
HanOfTheNekos posted... wait, did you mean Metroid: Other M or Multiverse of Madness?Laughed hard at this for some reason LMS knows how to melt your brain every time --- _foolmo_ he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance ... Copied to Clipboard!
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neonreaper 05/21/22 7:53:04 PM #33: |
LinkMarioSamus posted...
I climaxed to this --- Donny: Are they gonna hurt us, Walter? Walter: No, Donny. These men are cowards. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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MZero 05/21/22 7:56:49 PM #34: |
Steiner posted... why the fuck would i click this topic --- MZero, to the extreme https://www.twitch.tv/kabazame ... Copied to Clipboard!
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StealThisSheen 05/21/22 8:02:14 PM #35: |
Go away. --- Seplito Nash, Smelling Like the Vault since 1996 Step FOUR! Get Paid! ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Leonhart4 05/21/22 8:03:50 PM #36: |
LMS just playing the hits --- https://imgur.com/WqDcNNq https://imgur.com/89Z5jrB ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Johnbobb 05/21/22 8:15:44 PM #37: |
LinkMarioSamus posted... It's just Nintendo rarely makes such a big misfire that continues to fascinate me somewhat(that's because most Nintendo stories can be summed up as "guy goes hyaa or yahoo and saves the princess/world") --- Khal Kirby, warlord of the Super Star Khalasar PSN/Steam: CheddarBBQ https://goo.gl/Diw2hs ... Copied to Clipboard!
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The_REAL_Duke_O 05/21/22 9:25:37 PM #38: |
LinkMarioSamus posted... Honestly yeah that's a real head-scratcher, Samus idolizing a glorified Hate Sink so much. But from what I gather half the accusations of sexism aimed at Other M are more aimed at seeming desecration of a feminist icon than they are at actually making women look bad...not that Other M is free of that though. When I played Other M and completed all of it and experienced all of it's story, I never once felt it was "desecrating a feminist icon". I just looked at the story in this way: Samus didn't have a normal family growing up. Her family was Adam (who she viewed as a father, despite him not being a biological father, the guy is just her commanding officer) and the rest of the soldiers in her platoon as her brothers. Now... With that said... Is Adam a good father figure? Oh, hell no. LMAO. I'd say he makes a very poor father figure. He's a commanding officer and makes it known he's a commanding officer. Samus is so eager to have a father figure she just latches on to this guy who she views as an unofficial father because he's really the closest thing she has to that. But in reality, he sucks as a father figure. Hell... He sucks as a commanding officer (several of his orders throughout the game are straight up incompetent as all hell. Especially during the infamous volcano scene where he orders Samus to go into the Volcanic area The story of of Other M isn't about feminist / sexism stuff... the story of Other M is about extremely shitty fathers and shitty mothers and the daughters that have to put up with their bullshit. It's a deconstruction of Samus as well as a huge deconstruction for and I won't even get started on Samus and her entire "The baby... the baby... blah, blah, blah" endless monologues. That's another can of worms that adds another layer to the overall concept of dealing with shitty mothers and shitty fathers in this game. It's as if the writer of this game has issues with his parents and added in multiple layers of bad parenting into Other M --- I want my Earthbound!!! ... Copied to Clipboard!
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swirIdude 05/21/22 10:30:44 PM #39: |
What encourages a man to stay stuck on two pieces of media for the rest of his life? --- Azuarc is my favorite arc of the Game of the Decade 2020 anime. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Raka_Putra 05/21/22 10:34:01 PM #40: |
Malkovich Malkovich Malkovich. Malkovich, Malkovich. Malkovich Malkovich? --- "So much love in his words." - RIP Stephen Sondheim, 1930-2021 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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The_REAL_Duke_O 05/22/22 2:02:53 AM #41: |
Raka_Putra posted... Malkovich Malkovich Malkovich. Malkovich, Malkovich. Malkovich Malkovich? Malkovich!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm4JVkH0T-E --- I want my Earthbound!!! ... Copied to Clipboard!
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LinkMarioSamus 05/22/22 6:12:21 AM #42: |
I mostly made this topic because I found it curious how Multiverse of Madness is considered 'woke' for assassinating a female character. That plus figuring out the hilarious acronym similarity with Other M and how it was most certainly intentional in both cases. Multiverse of Madness also strikes me as being the MCU's closest equivalent to TLJ thus far, even from the praise it gets (for its director's style and character-driven nature). Previously it would have been either Iron Man 3 or Black Panther. --- Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders? ... Copied to Clipboard!
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MariaTaylor 05/22/22 6:42:57 AM #44: |
I can say for certain that a character having maternal instincts doesn't automatically make a character sexist or feminist. if your only question is 'why is this sexist but this isn't sexist?' the answer is that the context is different. context is important. overall, if your goal is to write a feminist story, you should think very hard about what that means and try to unify the narrative under that theme. otherwise I don't think it's worth it for most authors to worry about a subject like this. people will take notice if you write good characters. people will definitely notice if you write bad characters. the truest form of artistic expression is to tell the story you want to tell, and explore the characters you want to explore. if your first step is to think about how you are going to appease twitter, you've already lost. and if you can't write good female characters and good male characters you probably shouldn't be writing anyway. (sadly a lot of people who suck at writing both male and female characters still have jobs) --- only less than nothing, as nothing could have equaled you https://i.ibb.co/5skW2Jq/Mado2.png ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Aecioo 05/22/22 6:44:57 AM #45: |
LinkMarioSamus posted... I mostly made this topic because I found it curious how Multiverse of Madness is considered 'woke' for assassinating a female character. That plus figuring out the hilarious acronym similarity with Other M and how it was most certainly intentional in both cases. Yasssss --- http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lcb35gGx0t1qailr4o1_500.gif http://www.megavideo.com/?v=57N0YAEJ ... Copied to Clipboard!
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demonfang178 05/22/22 6:59:09 AM #46: |
LinkMarioSamus posted... I mostly made this topic because I found it curious how Multiverse of Madness is considered 'woke' for assassinating a female character. You may (or may not) want to ask these extremely rare individuals directly. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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neonreaper 05/22/22 8:44:26 AM #47: |
Can you explain more about Black Panther? --- Donny: Are they gonna hurt us, Walter? Walter: No, Donny. These men are cowards. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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SeabassDebeste 05/22/22 8:56:26 AM #48: |
swirIdude posted... What encourages a man to stay stuck on two pieces of media for the rest of his life? and specifically the fan reaction to them, long after they've left the cultural zeitgeist, and posted to ask audience that does not actually share those viewpoints --- yet all azuarc of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness ... Copied to Clipboard!
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htaeD 05/22/22 8:57:36 AM #49: |
Who compared Black Panther to TLJ???? --- Sword IGN: Pandora Brilliant Diamond IGN: Aurora ... Copied to Clipboard!
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LinkMarioSamus 05/22/22 9:04:19 AM #50: |
htaeD posted... Who compared Black Panther to TLJ???? I guess I said that because some of the latter film's most vocal detractors don't think much better of the former even though it's plainly obvious it was nowhere near as notoriously contentious in general. E.g. both films were the subjects of MauLer's first two rage videos, although I'm starting to realize the BP one was pure clickbait. I guess I was thinking of them similarly in terms of effectively being indie dramas set inside huge franchises, but yeah the similarities kind of end there. --- Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders? ... Copied to Clipboard!
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OrangeCrush980 05/22/22 9:08:26 AM #51: |
It comes down to Other M and The Last Jedi are terrible pieces of media. People hate them so much it may distort individual arguments as to why they're bad. Maybe Malkovich is something that would be shrugged off in a better story, or even praised if done well. But that's not what Other M is; it's a festering pile of crap. --- "I came back from space, and as I returned, I had one vision... the world set ablaze!" - Yuri Gagarin, Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater ... Copied to Clipboard!
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masterplum 05/22/22 9:09:41 AM #52: |
The only comparison I could possibly see between black panther and last Jedi is both have strong minority representation. Which really should just be an /topic --- https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BdWiElvIQAAQpBt.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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