Board 8 > Rank the Tracks Week 57: Peter Gabriel's So (plus Face Value results)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Previous results can be seen here:
https://board8.fandom.com/wiki/Rank_the_Tracks

The rules:
1. Listen to the album in full
2. Rank every track on the album
3. For the results, there will be a curve at the top of each list; two additional points between #1 and #2, and one additional point for the next two ranks. This way, the songs that really stick out to someone get an edge that is not immediately negated by someone else putting it lower. In the case of Demon Days, someone's 15th track will get 1 point, 14th 2 points, 4th 12 points, 3rd 14 points, 2nd 16 points, and 1st 19 points. For albums with greater than 15 tracks, everything ranked below #15 will be given 0 points and the scale for the top 15 will be the same as a 15-track album. For albums with more than 20 tracks, you only have to list your top 15 (with 16-20, I still like having the average rank listed)
4. If you want to include comments for individual songs, I will compile them in the results
5. The results will be posted at the beginning of the next topic
6. The deadline to vote is Sunday, April 10 at 8:00 AM EST - though if you are for whatever reason listening to the album around that time, just say so in the topic and I can delay a bit
7. You can sign up to be added to the user cycle - the next person on the list will choose 3 albums which the other users will vote on for the next topic.
7a. To ensure people are being given an actual choice, the three nominated albums must be by different artists. You can otherwise stick to a similar sound or era.
7b. The tiebreaker for these polls will be whichever is listed first in the poll options - make sure to deliver the results in order of your own preference (which will hopefully have the added benefit of influencing people toward your first choice if they can't decide).

Peter Gabriel - So track list:
(Note: the list below is the original track listing with a CD bonus track that has been integrated into modern releases; additionally, modern releases have moved In Your Eyes to the final track)
1. Red Rain
2. Sledgehammer
3. Don't Give Up
4. That Voice Again
5. In Your Eyes
6. Mercy Street
7. Big Time
8. We Do What We're Told (Milgram's 37)
9. This is the Picture (Excellent Birds)

User Cycle:
4/10: HBJDubs (Dream Theater - Images and Words)
4/17: TheArkOfTurus (Metallica - Master of Puppets)
4/24: Snake5555555555
5/1: Jesse_Custer
5/8: ZaziGuado
5/15: firefdr
5/22: SpikeSetsFire
5/29: Johnbobb
6/5: VeryInsane
6/12: CasanovaZelos
6/19: Seanchan
6/26: Giggsalot
7/3: RyoCaliente
7/10: darkx
7/17: neonreaper
7/24: Great_Paul
7/31: jcgamer107
8/7: ChichiriMuyo
8/14: BlueCrystalTear
8/21: MetalmindStats

Phil Collins - Face Value results

The participants sorted by deviation from final results:
CasanovaZelos (14)
MetalmindStats (16)
Raetsel_Lapin (22)
neonreaper (22)
BlueCrystalTear (26)
Snake5555555555 (28)
HBJDubs (30)
Johnbobb (42)
Seanchan (46)

General Album Comments

Seanchan: Did a first listen. Going in, I would say I'd be hard pressed to point to a Phil Collin's song other than In the Air Tonight. With that song in mind, and it being the first track, my expectations were set. But a lot of the rest of the album kind of goes in some different directions. This was way more instrumental than I expected. And then it ends on a Beatles track!

BlueCrystalTear: The thing with this album is that it's reflective of Phil's first marriage falling apart. You can just tell in his voice that he's a broken man trying to piece together his life again and creating music as a coping mechnaism. He's also experimenting with pop after the success of Genesis cuts "Follow You, Follow Me" and "Misunderstanding" and drifting away from the avant-garde style that made the mid-70s Genesis cuts so epic (Hackett's departure really changed everything). However, those musical tendencies are still present here, and that's one of the reasons why it's so fantastic: It doesn't go to one extreme or another and blends Phils worlds brilliantly. I like the contrast between the art-rock Genesis with the mainstream pop Phil eventually did, and this album is at those crossroads. Its particularly visible on the two instrumentals (which are for some reason back-to-back), which feel nothing like some of Phils later solo work. Really, the first 11 tracks are all great, hitting both horn-driven highs and emotional abyss lows, and the fact that there are that many good songs is precisely why I nominated it.

Snake5555555555: Solid crossroads between progressive, rock, and pop. The instrumental tracks are always an excellent surprise to break things up. The album is so dreary and melancholic, but Phil always manages to find the hooks in each track without leaving you wanting for more.

Seanchan: This is a solid album that doesn't really have a bad song. Tomorrow Never Knows will always be a Beatles song first though. With that said, I'm not sure this will necessarily be one I come back to very often.

Face Value track ranking

12. I'm Not Moving (Track #10)
Score: 35 (Average Rank: 9.56/12)
Biggest Fan(s): Seanchan (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): HBJDubs, CasanovaZelos, Snake5555555555 (#12)

11. The Roof is Leaking (Track #4)
Score: 35 (Average Rank: 9.11/12)
Biggest Fan(s): Seanchan (#5)
Biggest Detractor(s): neonreaper, MetalmindStats (#12)

10. Tomorrow Never Knows (Track #12)
Score: 45 (Average Rank: 8.44/12)
Biggest Fan(s): Johnbobb (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): BlueCrystalTear, Seanchan (#12)

BlueCrystalTear: An odd Beatles cover that never made sense to me. And having a bit of "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" as an outro adds some hope, but you really have to listen closely for it. This one just doesn't work for me and I think the album would be better off without it.

9. Behind the Lines (Track #3)
Score: 45 (Average Rank: 8.11/12)
Biggest Fan(s): Seanchan (#3)
Biggest Detractor(s): neonreaper (#11)

8. Thunder and Lightning (Track #9)
Score: 52 (Average Rank: 7.22/12)
Biggest Fan(s): HBJDubs (#4)
Biggest Detractor(s): Johnbobb (#11)

7. You Know What I Mean (Track #8)
Score: 54 (Average Rank: 7.22/12)
Biggest Fan(s): BlueCrystalTear, CasanovaZelos (#3)
Biggest Detractor(s): Johnbobb (#12)

BlueCrystalTear: A "hidden gem" that, when I saw Phil in concert in 2018, his son then-17 y/o son Nic (also his drumming apprentice) joked about saying it was the only song of his dad's that he liked, proceeding to troll that there was another (there wasnt, apparently). It was on the setlist at Nic's request. And it was a good choice. This disappeared so Against All Odds could fly, so its good that this one is getting attention again.

6. Hand in Hand (Track #6)
Score: 59 (Average Rank: 6.67/12)
Biggest Fan(s): HBJDubs, Johnbobb (#3)
Biggest Detractor(s): Raetsel_Lapin (#12)

5. If Leaving Me is Easy (Track #11)
Score: 62 (Average Rank: 6.56/12)
Biggest Fan(s): BlueCrystalTear, neonreaper (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): HBJDubs, Seanchan (#11)

BlueCrystalTear: A very sad, yet beautiful song. I get why some people wouldnt like it, though.

4. This Must Be Love (Track #2)
Score: 80 (Average Rank: 4.78/12)
Biggest Fan(s): Snake5555555555 (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Johnbobb (#8)

3. Droned (Track #5)
Score: 84 (Average Rank: 4.22/12)
Biggest Fan(s): HBJDubs, MetalmindStats (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): BlueCrystalTear, Seanchan (#7)

2. I Missed Again (Track #7)
Score: 86 (Average Rank: 4.44/12)
Biggest Fan(s): Raetsel_Lapin (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Snake5555555555 (#10)

BlueCrystalTear: The groundwork for No Jacket Required, and its every bit as good as that albums highs.

1. In the Air Tonight (Track #1)
Score: 128 (Average Rank: 1.67/12)
Biggest Fan(s): HBJDubs, BlueCrystalTear, CasanovaZelos, neonreaper, MetalmindStats (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Seanchan (#4)

BlueCrystalTear: The drum climax is iconic for a reason.

Haha, I KNEW I had deviation locked up for Face Value.

Tag

I only know the two monster singles from this one (In Your Eyes & Sledgehammer) so it'll be cool to hear the rest.

My album blurbs:

Ice Nine Kills - The Silver Scream -
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/3/4/AAR-tQAADGLW.png
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhDfoOax9iM
A metalcore concept album centered around horror movies. For horror fans like me, it's a dream come true. But I think just describing in like that does it a disservice. It's a lot more manic and insane than that. Theatrical and pop flourishes pepper this album with some of the catchiest and most cinematic choruses in metal, all while each verse hits hard with chugging riffs and scarily good puns, references, and LOTS of violent screaming unlock the inner killer within yourself.

Ministry - Psalm 69 -
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/3/5/AAR-tQAADGLX.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imqvLToWH7k
This album is like being in the mind of a conspiracy theorist high on speed and piss drunk at the same time, wallowing in a backwater hellhole amongst gaters, bootleggers, and dragsters, and indeed that's how most of the album was recorded more or less. Most people will either find this album engaging with a lot to say or total gibberish nonsense but me personally, I find it entertaining either way.

Black Marble - It's Immaterial -
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/3/6/AAR-tQAADGLY.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=it5v75DldNQ
It's funny how certain albums find you when need them most, isn't it? It's Immaterial found me on a particularly quiet, sort of lonely 2020 night; its cold, robotic overtones gave me a reaching hand, a shoulder to cry on knowing exactly what I'm feeling, while the gently lulling vocals washing over me like waves of invigorating water and breath never fail to make me feel like everything will be okay in the end with boundless hope.

1: Don't Give Up
2: In Your Eyes
3: Big Time
4: Red Rain
5: Mercy Street
6: We Do What We're Told (Milgram's 37)
7: Sledgehammer
8: This is the Picture (Excellent Birds)
9: That Voice Again

and now, the good Phil Collins

Man I love the idea of a horror concept album but really don't care for I've Nine Kills

jcgamer107 posted...

and now, the good Phil Collins

This is such a bad take every time I see it.

Peter Gabriel left Genesis because the rest of the band wouldn't go pop, so he went solo so he could produce mainstream music.

The man whose departure got Genesis to ultimately go in the direction they did? Steve Hackett. I suggest you listen to Hackett's solo material from the mid/late 70s, since that's an education. I also suggest you listen to A Trick of the Tail and Wind & Wuthering, which are two fantastic Genesis albums that sometimes get forgotten because "blah blah blah Gabriel blah blah."

There's also a reason Phil's solo career was far more successful than Gabriel's. Before today, I couldn't name a single Peter Gabriel solo song aside from the two big hits from this album.

By the way, this is a far cry from meaning that I dislike Gabriel - far from it. I enjoy his Genesis material and the two solo songs I mentioned. It's just that so many people seem to think that Phil becoming lead singer of Genesis was what made the band change, but that's simply not true. It's because he did that Genesis stayed avant-garde.

Collins >>>>>> Gabriel

First listen done.

Initial impressions, I think I like the singles here more than on Face Value but like the overall album less. Also, so many of these songs feel so long, clocking in at 5-6 minutes.

For those who will listen to So via YouTube or the like, be advised that the Mercy Street video has subpar audio quality.

On another note, I personally think it's really cool that we're even talking about how Phil Collins compares to Peter Gabriel here on Board 8.

My ranking:
In Your Eyes
Sledgehammer
Don't Give Up
Red Rain
Big Time
Mercy Street
We Do What We're Told (Milgram's 37)
That Voice Again
This is the Picture (Excellent Birds)

First listen down. Up and down tonally, but definitely well-crafted 80s pop. Like Sean,I noticed the lengthiness of the songs causing my interest to wane. I've never been fond of lengthy songs that are slower-paced like that. If you're gonna make it long, make it epic. And the last couple songs took a very... odd turn. Overall, I think it's very hit-or-miss. But I got at least two more listens to do here before I render a final verdict.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

And the last couple songs took a very... odd turn.

For what it's worth, the track order with In Your Eyes last was apparently Peter Gabriel's preference even at the time, but it couldn't be implemented back then due to vinyl's technical limitations.

To be honest, it would kind of feel like a slog to get to In Your Eyes, with Mercy Street lasting longer than it has to and having the two oddities placed back-to-back at the end of the album. This Is the Picture in particular just doesn't do anything for me. And this is after... three listens, maybe four.

I can see why Gabriel wanted it that way. He wanted buildup to a climactic track (which In Your Eyes is), but apparently vinyl couldn't handle a booming bassline as a final track back then. It's odd, however, that the CD and cassette releases didn't have his preferential order since they had that awful extra track anyway. There was nothing saying the track order had to be the same across different media.

Bump!

So... I think I've listened to this enough times to know how this ranking is gonna end up.(Yes, *that* was intentional.)

1. In Your Eyes Its 80s pop meets world music. Its glorious. Its nice to have someone whose eyes you can just get lost in and die of thirst, too. It works best at the end like Gabriel wanted, too.
2. Sledgehammer A catchy sing-along that was a hit for a reason. Its also about fucking, which is a pretty relatable topic for a lot of people.
3. Red Rain Fantastic opener, but really not much else to say about it other than it really does get your attention.
4. Don't Give Up Went from liking this to feeling that it dragged on too long, and thus it became sleepy. Extra points for Kate Bush, who took her parts to wuthering heights.
5. That Voice Again At first I thought this was a Whitney Houston song, and then it was something else. A very 80s dance tune.
6. We Do What We're Told (Milgram's 37) What is this? Its weird, yet magical? It reminds me of A Hat in Time tbh, which may be why I feel like this doesnt fit what its saying. Even if I love that comparison.
7. Big Time A wake up song that feels like thats all it is.
8. Mercy Street This one also went on way too long. Catchy beat and good hook but it loses me midway, and then I forget about it even though I'm listening to it. Please have mercy.
9. This is the Picture (Excellent Birds) This is even weirder than Milgrams 37 and, unlike that one, not in a good way. Its catchy the first time until you realize that this song is just six words long.

Honestly, I dont like Mercy Street or This Is the Picture that much. Definitely enjoyed the rest of the album though! Loved my top three, liked the next four, last two... won't go there.

bump

1. Sledgehammer
2. In Your Eyes
3. Big Time
4. Red Rain
5. Mercy Street
6. Don't Give Up
7. That Voice Again
8. We Do What We're Told (Milgram's 37)
9. This is the Picture (Excellent Birds)

I just kinda found this album to be boring. Yes, Sledgehammer and In Your Eyes are legitimately good. But even those still suffer from my main issue that the songs just go on a minute or three too long. Maybe I'm just not in the right mood at the moment and this album just isn't my vibe, but I found this one to be a chore. In this matchup, Collins is the clear winner over Gabriel.

Only 5 votes so far? Maybe having these two albums back to back was a bad thing.

Red Rain
In Your Eyes
Big Time
Sledgehammer
Mercy Street
We Do What We're Told (Milgram's 37)
This Is The Picture (Excellent Birds)
Don't Give Up
That Voice Again

CasanovaZelos posted...

Only 5 votes so far? Maybe having these two albums back to back was a bad thing.

Only seven last week at this time IIRC, before the two last minute ones.

I'm starting to get concerned about the longevity of this (awesome) project.

Keep up the good work with this - I appreciate it and I'm sure several others do too!

In Your Eyes
Red Rain
Sledgehammer
Mercy Street
Big Time
Dont Give Up
We Do What We're Told (Milgram's 37)
This Is The Picture (Excellent Birds)
That Voice Again

Didn't quite have time this week unfortunately.

Oh wow, this is the first I've seen of this topic series, oops. At least I should be able to start signing up next week.

Most of the greatness of this album is contained within 2 tracks.....and there are times when the energy and interest start to dip. Nonetheless, its highs are high enough to make it one of the better pop albums of the 80's.

1) Sledgehammer: Extremely catchy with a booming horn section. One of the all-time great music videos, and one of the best modern uses of shakuhachi bamboo flute you'll find.
2) Big Time: Nearly matches Sledgehammer in catchyness & quality of music video. The vocal section from 0:37-0:55 is fantastic. The only Genesis-related track that can compete with this and Sledgehammer in my opinion is Land of Confusion.
3) In Your Eyes: As good as the Sledgehammer & Big Time music videos are, that's how bad this one is - still, the prechrous & chorus are reeaally good, and Peter's vocals have rarely been better.
4) That Voice Again: Very synthwave-y bridge, and a pretty good chorus with nice two-part harmonies
5) Red Rain: Pretty good opener....I actually like everything *but* the chorus here - he comes in sounding like a wannabe Bruce Springsteen or something. The opening build is really good though, and the verses have great vocal and synth work.
6) This is the Picture: Weird and artsy....maybe as a joke? I dunno, it at least has energy to it, and the chorus is good. I will never ever watch the music video though, it looks like it might have potential to be worse than In Your Eyes.
7) We Do What We're Told: An interesting and foreboding track to start to wind down the album....I like the reference to the notorious Milgram experiment
8) Don't Give Up: Good message....not the best song. Has some feeling to it but isn't worth a 6 1/2 minute runtime.
9) Mercy Street: Just way too long and slow.... I'm waiting for it to end almost as soon as it starts

1. Sledgehammer
2. This is the Picture (Excellent Birds)
3. Big Time
4. Red Rain
5. That Voice Again
6. In Your Eyes
7. We Do What We're Told (Milgram's 37)
8. Mercy Street
9. Don't Give Up

I thought about writing something for each song but I didn't 'cause I'm lazy and the deadline's almost up. Sledgehammer is one of the best music videos ever and a definitive 80's pop song. I dunno why I like This is the Picture so much, just kinda dig that menacing bass. Don't Give Up was the only track I didn't like at all.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

Keep up the good work with this - I appreciate it and I'm sure several others do too!

I too appreciate this series, and I would be very sad to see it go.

Also, I just noticed a typo in my Big Time comment, oops. The corrected version:
MetalmindStats posted...

The most obvious (and boisterous) product of its decade here, its just as much a distillation thereof. Gabriel typically had his cake and ate it too with a song thats subtler and cleverer because it works on every level from entirely straight to purely satiric equally well.

I also love this project, just haven't had time this week due to work