Board 8 > Fire Emblem: Awakening Mafia - Topic 6 - Conquest (Ablaze)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Alive (9):
Ben
changmas
ChichiriMuyo
Corrik
MZero
ScareChan
Sheep007
TidusOfTheX
Ultimaterializer

Dead (6):
IfGodCouldDie - Owain, Vanilla TOWN (LD1)
Shonen_Bat - Frederick TOWN Mason Bodyguard (KN1)
htaeD - Validar MAFIA Vigilante (LD2)
HanOfTheNekos - Kjelle TOWN Bulletproof (KN2)
Chris - Lissa TOWN Doctor (LD3)
red13n - Tharja, Vanilla TOWN (KN3)

[2] Corrik: Sheep. (Ben), Scare
[2] Scare: MZero, Corrik
[1] MZero: Ben

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 4 ends at 12:15 AM GMT Saturday/07:15 PM EST Friday (30 hours and 15 minutes from now).

##Unvote

So it looks like the line is being drawn. Lets knock this out now - does anyone plan to kill someone not Scare or Corrik today?

Nope, just corrik

I'd like to hear claims from Scare, MZero, and Sheep before we start putting any votes down, personally.

Right now Corrik is my lynch

Cool. Yeah I was holding back a little bit because I wanted to see who would defend Corrik. But look - this is the truth of it. Shonen's role ONLY allowed him to bodyguard me, and did not give him the option to not be bodyguarding me. Corrik claiming to have bodygaurded no one each night is a "convenient" lie to avoid having to explain why he didnt protect the players he should have. And it is just that - a lie. Backup takes the exact abilities of the power is it backing up. It cant just interpret Mason Bodyguard as a bodyguard and ignore how his role actually works. What was it supposed to do if I was lynched day 1? It would have to take my Mason role. So there is no reason it cant take a Mason role.

Why did Corrik make such a flawed claim? Who the heck knows. Either scum did not interpret my explanation of what Shonen does correctly, or maybe Corrik just wanted to say he would never claim something this dumb. It's a great argument. But it is flawed for the simple reason that the host wouldnt do something this dumb.

Also using process of elimination Corrik was basically confirmed scum today anyway. So that is why he had to quickly claim something so polarizing and couldn't just claim vanilla.

By the way, funnily enough, Shonen who has not said anything in Mason chat since he was lynched, just showed up to say that its crazy that anyone is believing anything he's saying today, and that even he can see Corrik is scum. Shonen has spoken!

changmas posted...

I'd like to hear claims from Scare, MZero, and Sheep before we start putting any votes down, personally.

I agree with this and would also like to say that Muyo is someone I would consider if I change my mind on Corrik. Still haven't had time to do a full readthrough of Corrik's game as I would want to. And I kinda want MZero to claim before or at the same time as myself.

oh nice

you gonna reclaim, Corrik or we done here?

PunishedBen posted...

Cool. Yeah I was holding back a little bit because I wanted to see who would defend Corrik. But look - this is the truth of it. Shonen's role ONLY allowed him to bodyguard me, and did not give him the option to not be bodyguarding me. Corrik claiming to have bodygaurded no one each night is a "convenient" lie to avoid having to explain why he didnt protect the players he should have. And it is just that - a lie. Backup takes the exact abilities of the power is it backing up. It cant just interpret Mason Bodyguard as a bodyguard and ignore how his role actually works. What was it supposed to do if I was lynched day 1? It would have to take my Mason role. So there is no reason it cant take a Mason role.

Why did Corrik make such a flawed claim? Who the heck knows. Either scum did not interpret my explanation of what Shonen does correctly, or maybe Corrik just wanted to say he would never claim something this dumb. It's a great argument. But it is flawed for the simple reason that the host wouldnt do something this dumb.

Also using process of elimination Corrik was basically confirmed scum today anyway. So that is why he had to quickly claim something so polarizing and couldn't just claim vanilla.

By the way, funnily enough, Shonen who has not said anything in Mason chat since he was lynched, just showed up to say that its crazy that anyone is believing anything he's saying today, and that even he can see Corrik is scum. Shonen has spoken!

We all know how his role worked. We talked about how scum probably shot both masons too. For someone confirmed Town you are sure dropping logic a lot. Be better, Ben.

And POE? There is literally one confirmed town right now. You are playing lazy.

Honestly Sheep since today might be your last, I suggest reading past days with the added context that Corrik IS scum.

Corrik7 posted...

We all know how his role worked. We talked about how scum probably shot both masons too. For someone confirmed Town you are sure dropping logic a lot. Be better, Ben.

And POE? There is literally one confirmed town right now. You are playing lazy.

One confirmed town yeah? Then your bodyguard choice should have simple!

Sheep007 posted...

oh nice

you gonna reclaim, Corrik or we done here?

Like I said, this game was lost when Chris messed up the doctor role. Not going to fakeclaim to satisfy arguments that boil down to "Corrik is stupid". If you don't believe me that is on you. My role is my role. My flavor is my flavor. Is what it is.

If I was lying as scum, I think I would not choose something controversial here, especially when investigative roles are an easy claim. If I was lying town, then obviously there is a reason for what I am lying here, and no amount of pressure would be wise to succumb to because the claim is for scum to decipher, not town.

However, I am lying about nothing so it is what it is. Just funny I am supposedly scum because I am dumb. That's a new one. To be fair lol.

PunishedBen posted...

Backup takes the exact abilities of the power is it backing up. It cant just interpret Mason Bodyguard as a bodyguard and ignore how his role actually works. What was it supposed to do if I was lynched day 1? It would have to take my Mason role. So there is no reason it cant take a Mason role.

I do think this is a damning point. It doesn't seem to make sense that it would ignore half of the role AND change the functionality of the half that it did take.

To play one last devil's advocate here - why would Corrik invent such a flawed claim as scum? Arrogance? Surely he's a capable enough player to make a clean town power claim as scum - why choose something immediately refutable?

PunishedBen posted...

One confirmed town yeah? Then your bodyguard choice should have simple!

I don't think your play is better than mine to warrant a BG. If I am sacrificing myself in a game, it is for a doctor, watcher or a Cop. Otherwise, I would, no offense, consider it not playing to win.

I didn't realize Red was lying and there was no investigative roles, which led me to bad meta on Chris. Which to be fair, I probably would have not lynched him alone on meta if play didn't dictate his lynch, but so be it.

And, like I said before, I have an entire game in the past where I never used my Bodyguard ability an entire game because I think it is dumb. It serves no purpose unless a role is critical to be saved.

Corrik7 posted...

Like I said, this game was lost when Chris messed up the doctor role. Not going to fakeclaim to satisfy arguments that boil down to "Corrik is stupid". If you don't believe me that is on you. My role is my role. My flavor is my flavor. Is what it is.

If I was lying as scum, I think I would not choose something controversial here, especially when investigative roles are an easy claim. If I was lying town, then obviously there is a reason for what I am lying here, and no amount of pressure would be wise to succumb to because the claim is for scum to decipher, not town.

However, I am lying about nothing so it is what it is. Just funny I am supposedly scum because I am dumb. That's a new one. To be fair lol.

This part killed any semblance of serious pondering I was giving to your plea. The fact that you're just trying to implant any doubt into us at this point since a few people have said they think you might be lying town. Which is obviously not the case lol

PunishedBen posted...

Honestly Sheep since today might be your last, I suggest reading past days with the added context that Corrik IS scum.

I mean, I'm gonna be keeping that in mind, but a fair portion of my reads yesterday were based on Chris being scum and I wanna make it so there's a few extra things to look into if Corrik does flip town.

Imma go ahead and vote, there is pretty much a 99% chance corrik is scum

##vote: Corrik

##Unvote

We are not hammering early again

What motive is there for scum Corrik to make this claim instead of something safer and less controversial?

changmas posted...

I do think this is a damning point. It doesn't seem to make sense that it would ignore half of the role AND change the functionality of the half that it did take.

To play one last devil's advocate here - why would Corrik invent such a flawed claim as scum? Arrogance? Surely he's a capable enough player to make a clean town power claim as scum - why choose something immediately refutable?

And I don't really want to imagine WHY Corrik did it. I notice he really wants me to discuss that too. That should say enough why he thinks this claim is a good idea. This isn't a case where he was super safe from getting lynched today and then put himself in a situation that looked bad. This is him cornered at an all time low. He admitted everyone wants to lynch him and that he was giving up. Then he came back with this claim

changmas posted...

What motive is there for scum Corrik to make this claim instead of something safer and less controversial?

Last post before the claim post

Corrik7 posted...

Do whatever yinz wanna do at this point, I don't care. This game was lost when Chris did what he did.

100% of the game is saying to lynch me without any real reasoning. At least there was legitimate reasoning against Chris. I got too much going on to care. Good game, scum.

Later.

He did not feel safe. Vanilla gets him lynched. Investigation role means he has to come up with fake scans for a day he is probably dying on anyway.

I see a lot of lazy play this game though, sometimes from surprising sources. A lot of people using Rule 1 arguments, a lot of people using setup arguments solely, flavor meta arguments, role meta arguments, and there has been very little actual analysis outside of a few people.

Scare's only analysis of play this entire game happened to get Chris lynched which evolved from Rule 1! To lynch who I said or I will mayor the lynch! To finally some analysis.

Sheep has been the most analytical player so far which is why it is hard to come to any conclusion he is scum. Like trust me, I tried to make it work just out of paranoia. I cannot. However, he has basically ceded that if Chang is scum that he is okay losing the game just based on luck. Which is weird. That's pretty lazy. He assumes there was a roleblocker but then thinks they let a flavorscan go off no problem. And thinks his flavorscan is a 100% clear. Personally I don't know the flavor that well, but I think it's basically a scenario where someone assumes a godfather is town if scanned and loses the game over it because they can't think about it more.

Tidus has had basically zero analysis that I can find. He just basically says he is against someone and just is. I think his Chris lynch is covered by his CLAIMED ability to use a protective ability. But, he is also claiming he is purposely not using abilities which is headscratching for his supposed role. Claiming it was anti-town though also.

Ulti has played it safe but most of the arguments against Ulti have disappeared with Chris being Town. There still is the fact he typed his vanilla claim out in wrong format, but Death was scum and had his correct so it kinda removes that argument also. Ulti has been lazy also besides a spurt towards the end of day 1, but there isn't much that looks bad either.

Muyo hasn't done much and has to be spurred to do stuff. I have mostly done the spurring along with Han. Someone asked why I didn't follow up on a post calling out Muyos certainty but they missed where I think Ben answered the question for him and I put *shakes head disgustingly* I mean, he is riding on a claim that seems silly as hell to make as scum at this point. He seems lost on his reads whenever he makes them.

Mzero has been pretty solid when he does stuff. Again it is a question of actually getting him to do stuff. He says that people are not engaging with him so he isn't saying much, but there is topics of posts to engage with. You don't need someone here to actively engage with, though I do understand the context of moment does matter at times. Another people that is being lazy.

The theme is laziness and it is undoubtedly letting scum sneak by doing nothing.

PunishedBen posted...

This part killed any semblance of serious pondering I was giving to your plea. The fact that you're just trying to implant any doubt into us at this point since a few people have said they think you might be lying town. Which is obviously not the case lol

Made it very clear I am not lying. I just pointed out how little you are actually analyzing and being lazy.

PunishedBen posted...

And I don't really want to imagine WHY Corrik did it. I notice he really wants me to discuss that too. That should say enough why he thinks this claim is a good idea. This isn't a case where he was super safe from getting lynched today and then put himself in a situation that looked bad. This is him cornered at an all time low. He admitted everyone wants to lynch him and that he was giving up. Then he came back with this claim

That actually does answer the "why" for me in your theory. Essentially it would be that Corrik, believing himself cornered, has opted for a hail mary. Because scum Corrik could easily fabricate a safer claim, he's deliberately chosen a flawed claim filled with holes in the hopes that it's actually more believable than something safe.

PunishedBen posted...

And I don't really want to imagine WHY Corrik did it. I notice he really wants me to discuss that too. That should say enough why he thinks this claim is a good idea. This isn't a case where he was super safe from getting lynched today and then put himself in a situation that looked bad. This is him cornered at an all time low. He admitted everyone wants to lynch him and that he was giving up. Then he came back with this claim

Nobody that is scum is cornered right now. They are literally closer to winning than town and have neutralized all the main roles of town. You have 2 mislynches vs 3 scum left. You have eliminated a Bulletproof and a Doctor. You have zero people claiming scans of any sort against them. Scum is sailing right now. Are you even playing the same game as everyone else?

Once I am mislynched town is literally at mylo.

Corrik7 posted...

He assumes there was a roleblocker but then thinks they let a flavorscan go off no problem. And thinks his flavorscan is a 100% clear. Personally I don't know the flavor that well, but I think it's basically a scenario where someone assumes a godfather is town if scanned and loses the game over it because they can't think about it more.

I think it's pretty logical that they would continue to roleblock red, who they presumably still believe to be a tracker, over a fairly weak flavor scan. Few players had claimed to that point, and the most likely targets of the scan (Chris, myself, and perhaps Ulti) are likely all town. Or, as you've pointed out, people could've gotten lucky and claimed the same weapon type and would also have nothing to fear. Why should they be concerned about a flavor scan that probably can't implicate any of them over a claimed tracker who could?

changmas posted...

I think it's pretty logical that they would continue to roleblock red, who they presumably still believe to be a tracker, over a fairly weak flavor scan. Few players had claimed to that point, and the most likely targets of the scan (Chris, myself, and perhaps Ulti) are likely all town. Or, as you've pointed out, people could've gotten lucky and claimed the same weapon type and would also have nothing to fear. Why should they be concerned about a flavor scan that probably can't implicate any of them over a claimed tracker who could?

You don't know red was ever roleblocked tbqh

Corrik7 posted...

Sheep has been the most analytical player so far which is why it is hard to come to any conclusion he is scum. Like trust me, I tried to make it work just out of paranoia. I cannot. However, he has basically ceded that if Chang is scum that he is okay losing the game just based on luck. Which is weird. That's pretty lazy. He assumes there was a roleblocker but then thinks they let a flavorscan go off no problem. And thinks his flavorscan is a 100% clear. Personally I don't know the flavor that well, but I think it's basically a scenario where someone assumes a godfather is town if scanned and loses the game over it because they can't think about it more.

If you'd paid attention to what I said day 2, I was unconvinced Chang is scum then and have seen almost nothing to suggest otherwise since. The scan just backs up those thoughts. Like, sure, this could make him the equivalent of a godfather right now, but I'm not gonna spend a full day pressuring him a ton when I'm more concerned about other players.

Will be back in a few hours and do some actual analysis rather than just responses

changmas posted...

I think it's pretty logical that they would continue to roleblock red, who they presumably still believe to be a tracker, over a fairly weak flavor scan. Few players had claimed to that point, and the most likely targets of the scan (Chris, myself, and perhaps Ulti) are likely all town. Or, as you've pointed out, people could've gotten lucky and claimed the same weapon type and would also have nothing to fear. Why should they be concerned about a flavor scan that probably can't implicate any of them over a claimed tracker who could?

Well, I mean, if you are scum that had the right weapon type, you had nothing to fear.

Sheep got one weapon back right? I have two myself. So, that makes the odds even higher of having the weapon as scum. But, I guess scum wouldn't know how the scan worked.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Ben, why do you keep assuming Sheep is town?

Also, if no roles existed Tidus would be far and away the scummiest player in this entire game.

Facts. Ben wouldn't be far behind him either.

The laziness in this game is astounding.

Corrik7 posted...

You don't know red was ever roleblocked tbqh

changmas posted...

Given the assumption that there is a roleblocker, I think it's pretty logical that they would continue to roleblock red, who they presumably still believe to be a tracker, over a fairly weak flavor scan. Few players had claimed to that point, and the most likely targets of the scan (Chris, myself, and perhaps Ulti) are likely all town. Or, as you've pointed out, people could've gotten lucky and claimed the same weapon type and would also have nothing to fear. Why should they be concerned about a flavor scan that probably can't implicate any of them over a claimed tracker who could?

I'm not addressing whether or not a roleblocker exists, your first sentence in the quote I took from you already acknowledges a scenario in which one does.

changmas posted...

I'm not addressing whether or not a roleblocker exists, your first sentence in the quote I took from you already acknowledges a scenario in which one does.

Just because a roleblocker could exist doesn't mean that red was ever roleblocked.

Corrik7 posted...

Just because a roleblocker could exist doesn't mean that red was ever roleblocked.

who are they roleblocking then, if not red n1/n2 or tidus n1 or sheep n2? this is extremely pedantic and frankly ridiculous. of course it's a theoretical possibility. it makes very little practical sense though.

changmas posted...

who are they roleblocking then, if not red n1/n2 or tidus n1 or sheep n2? this is extremely pedantic and frankly ridiculous. of course it's a theoretical possibility. it makes very little practical sense though.

I mean, multiple people here thought red was lying about his claim right? The only person I really see anything about roleblocked is Ulti saying red basically said he was roleblocked, which I myself didn't see. Anyone could have been roleblocked. Like, honestly, we assume red was shot because he claimed tracker but what if red was just shot because after Chris Han and me he was the strongest player left and had less suspicion than me?

Like, the fact I am not dead right now I am sure has completely to do with the fact that like 10 people yesterday said if Chris is actually town I am scum. Almost the entire game was on Chris, so that means most of scum with most of town also.

Scum wanted that Chris flip as town that day, and I was always the number 1 target after it.

Assuming red was roleblocked is questionable though unless you know more than the game. Nobody has claimed roleblocked today either.

If anything, maybe people should be more suspicious of the fact Ulti said red was roleblocked when I don't think red said that or that you seem to keep acting as if it's a given without any thought whatsoever of where the roleblock went night 3 then.

Like, if Red was roleblocked night 1 and 2. He surely wasn't night 3. Which then who would I roleblock night 3. Not Ben right? Honestly it would have to be sheep or me or mzero or outside chance Ulti if we are assuming everyone is town here.

I don't think if you are town you fakeclaimed Chang, there was no reason to not believe Scare was mayor if town from scum eyes since he literally tried to murder Chris with it. And muyo if town has been clueless and not showing anything to give away a role. Ben clearly isn't a power.

So, I mean, why hasn't this crossed your mind? It looks bad for me to conveniently have no action to not be able to claim a roleblock I suppose, but if I was scum I would know where roleblocks went and be able to claim whatever and roleblocked for all the prior nights if they were on red? Right? Or anyone scum could do that if your roleblock on red scenario was right. Why isn't that happening? Isn't that more of a point in the favor of one not even existing? Or that someone who is still alive was roleblocked night 1 and 2 so scum can't claim them themselves because of possibility of counter?

First of all, the entire point of me responding to you was to say that IF a roleblocker exists, it is completely reasonable not to block a weak flavor scan that was very likely to never scan a scum player in the first place. You've led me on a complete wild goose chase beyond that singular point.

I think it's fairly likely at this point that there isn't a roleblocker. But it's still worth considering a scenario where there is one. And I think you're out of your mind if you think they aren't on Red/Tidus n1. And we know Tidus wasn't roleblocked because we saw his vote count as 2 and Sheep's count as 0.

Corrik7 posted...

Like, if Red was roleblocked night 1 and 2. He surely wasn't night 3. Which then who would I roleblock night 3. Not Ben right? Honestly it would have to be sheep or me or mzero or outside chance Ulti if we are assuming everyone is town here.

I think the obvious choice would be Tidus, the remaining claimed power role. But he didn't attempt a night action, so we simply don't know.

changmas posted...

First of all, the entire point of me responding to you was to say that IF a roleblocker exists, it is completely reasonable not to block a weak flavor scan that was very likely to never scan a scum player in the first place. You've led me on a complete wild goose chase beyond that singular point.

I think it's fairly likely at this point that there isn't a roleblocker. But it's still worth considering a scenario where there is one. And I think you're out of your mind if you think they aren't on Red/Tidus n1. And we know Tidus wasn't roleblocked because we saw his vote count as 2 and Sheep's count as 0.

I think the obvious choice would be Tidus, the remaining claimed power role. But he didn't attempt a night action, so we simply don't know.

The obvious option from scum is to hunt a doctor or cop to roleblock. A tracker early game after night 1 (Night 2 and 3ish) especially is a very weak scanner, especially if they have a check for it like a ninja. Scum has spent powers (Ala death's vig) etc. Say normally you have half the scum team moving night 2, the trackers needs to not only Scan a scum but a moving scum and also hopefully not out actual town power in the process. In fact, the biggest POINT FOR a roleblocker blocking red every night is if one of you Vanilla claims like you or Ulti is the roleblocker. Because you would have to move every night after you already said you don't.

If you aren't the roleblocker you could just shuffle who put the night kills in unless the jack theory is right also, so Vanilla being Jack or roleblocker is pretty much the scenario that must ensures that Red being roleblocked every night makes sense.

If a roleblocker doesn't even exist, Tracker is even that much weaker to scum. They can't roleblock it in that scenario but they likely don't care about it either at that point. It's a 25% chance to hit actual scum in the process, can obscure scum as not moving when they could put night kills in later, or even reveal town power to scum.

It's like no one in this game has even thought through anything and is just like "meh Corrik is stupid". Like, Chris was facing the same stuff from a lot of you. I would like to think he actually respected me and a few others who actually made arguments based on his play, and I see why he just was like resigned and fuck it after awhile. Lazy town is letting scum lead mislynches. Put some effort actually in and make sense of what is ahead of you.

Corrik7 posted...

The obvious option from scum is to hunt a doctor or cop to roleblock. A tracker early game after night 1 (Night 2 and 3ish) especially is a very weak scanner, especially if they have a check for it like a ninja. Scum has spent powers (Ala death's vig) etc. Say normally you have half the scum team moving night 2, the trackers needs to not only Scan a scum but a moving scum and also hopefully not out actual town power in the process. In fact, the biggest POINT FOR a roleblocker blocking red every night is if one of you Vanilla claims like you or Ulti is the roleblocker. Because you would have to move every night after you already said you don't.

Corrik7 posted...

He assumes there was a roleblocker but then thinks they let a flavorscan go off no problem.

Tidus' scan item is a weak flavorscan that couldn't even be used on more than half of the players in the game yet you think it's strange that scum would let it go off no problem. But then you turn around and claim that scum shouldn't or wouldn't be roleblocking red because it's a weak scan. It's inconsistent logic.

changmas posted...

Tidus' scan item is a weak flavorscan that couldn't even be used on more than half of the players in the game yet you think it's strange that scum would let it go off no problem. But then you turn around and claim that scum shouldn't or wouldn't be roleblocking red because it's a weak scan. It's inconsistent logic.

I said scum had nothing to fear by the flavor scan if a roleblocker exists. It was going to be used against a small subset of the game to have any use, in which scum already was good there or scum had no reason to feel they would be targeted. Correct.

Reading through old topics now. I have thoughts pending but want to get through the first D2 topic for more context before I vocalise them. Just wanted to pop in and say that Chang actually bothering to point out inconsistent logic from Corrik here feels really good to me. Could be bussing? but I'm really not feeling that from him.

Also, c'mon Corrik. You spent a bunch of the last part of D1 arguing that town was too strong with their scanning roles. This is kinda throwing crap at the wall to see if it sticks now.

Sheep007 posted...

Also, c'mon Corrik. You spent a bunch of the last part of D1 arguing that town was too strong with their scanning roles. This is kinda throwing crap at the wall to see if it sticks now.

What???

I don't know what you are talking about. I literally said that the flavor scan was pointless now because he told scum how to negate it.

Corrik7 posted...

Sheep has been the most analytical player so far which is why it is hard to come to any conclusion he is scum. Like trust me, I tried to make it work just out of paranoia. I cannot. However, he has basically ceded that if Chang is scum that he is okay losing the game just based on luck. Which is weird. That's pretty lazy. He assumes there was a roleblocker but then thinks they let a flavorscan go off no problem. And thinks his flavorscan is a 100% clear. Personally I don't know the flavor that well, but I think it's basically a scenario where someone assumes a godfather is town if scanned and loses the game over it because they can't think about it more.

Corrik7 posted...

I said scum had nothing to fear by the flavor scan if a roleblocker exists. It was going to be used against a small subset of the game to have any use, in which scum already was good there or scum had no reason to feel they would be targeted. Correct.

But then you have the same opinion as Sheep did. Despite you pointing this out (see bolded) in a way that makes it seem like you don't agree.

Also, you asked the newbies to claim(hoped I would mess up and tell you?) probably looking for town powers to shoot

Sheep, when will you claim?

Corrik7 posted...

What???

"A bunch" might be overstating it. But on P9 of topic 2

Corrik7 posted...

Assuming a cop and doctor, town is looking too powerful. The scum team would have to be stacked for town to have cop, doctor, tracker, confirmable vote taker/flavor cop giver, 2 masons. imo. You are looking at a strongman/ninja combination on scum or something to compensate.

and after Chris responded that a cop was not required, you said that...

Corrik7 posted...

It's a confirmable flavor cop giver. 3 confirmable roles on town? In addition to likely traditional power roles? It's a lot. If anything... you should be looking at Red.

TidusOfTheX posted...

Sheep, when will you claim?

Either after or alongside MZero. Preferably also alongside or after Scare. It gives them less room to base their claims around mine.

Hey, Corrik, it sounds like a good time to reveal why you said this.
Corrik7 posted...

If red is tracker like he says, he is probably every other night tracker anyways imo. I have zero doubts there is a cop. Cop + inventor/vote stealer + tracker + masons/BG + Doctor. Yeah. Too much conformable and power. He is a liar or isn't every night.

How did you come to this conclusion at the time and at what point did this opinion change?