Board 8 > Rank the Tracks Week 41: Brand New's The Devil and God... (+ Rush's MP results)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Previous results can be seen here:
https://board8.fandom.com/wiki/Rank_the_Tracks

The rules:
1. Listen to the album in full
2. Rank every track on the album
3. For the results, there will be a curve at the top of each list; two additional points between #1 and #2, and one additional point for the next two ranks. This way, the songs that really stick out to someone get an edge that is not immediately negated by someone else putting it lower. In the case of Demon Days, someone's 15th track will get 1 point, 14th 2 points, 4th 12 points, 3rd 14 points, 2nd 16 points, and 1st 19 points. For albums with greater than 15 tracks, everything ranked below #15 will be given 0 points and the scale for the top 15 will be the same as a 15-track album. For albums with more than 20 tracks, you only have to list your top 15 (with 16-20, I still like having the average rank listed)
4. If you want to include comments for individual songs, I will compile them in the results
5. The results will be posted at the beginning of the next topic
6. The deadline to vote is Sunday, December 19 at 8:00 AM EST - though if you are for whatever reason listening to the album around that time, just say so in the topic and I can delay a bit
7. You can sign up to be added to the user cycle - the next person on the list will choose 3 albums which the other users will vote on for the next topic.
7a. To ensure people are being given an actual choice, the three nominated albums must be by different artists. You can otherwise stick to a similar sound or era.
7b. The tiebreaker for these polls will be whichever is listed first in the poll options - make sure to deliver the results in order of your own preference (which will hopefully have the added benefit of influencing people toward your first choice if they can't decide).

Brand New - The Devil and God Are Raging Inside Me track list:
1. Sowing Season (Yeah)
2. Millstone
3. Jesus Christ
4. Degausser
5. Limousine
6. You Won't Know
7. Welcome to Bangkok
8. Not the Sun
9. Luca
10. Untitled
11. Archers
12. Handcuffs

User Cycle:
12/19: Jesse_Custer (Coeur de pirate - Roses)
12/26: ZaziGuado (Lorde - Melodrama)
1/2: SpikeSetsFire
1/9: Johnbobb
1/16: VeryInsane
1/23: CasanovaZelos
1/30: Seanchan
2/6: Giggsalot
2/13: RyoCaliente
2/20: darkx
2/27: neonreaper
3/6: Great_Paul
3/13: jcgamer107
3/20: ChichiriMuyo
3/27: ChainLTTP
4/3: BlueCrystalTear
4/10: MetalmindStats
4/17: HBJDubs
4/22: TheArkOfTurus
4/29: Snake5555555555

Rush's Moving Pictures results

The participants sorted by deviation from final results:
BlueCrystalTear (0)
ZaziGuado (4)
CasanovaZelos (6)
neonreaper (8)
WiggumFan267 (8)
HBJDubs (8)
Seanchan (8)
Jesse_Custer (10)
Snake5555555555 (10)
Reg (10)
darkx (10)
Johnbobb (12)
VeryInsane (12)
TheArkOfTurus (14)
Comedy101 (14)
Raetsel_Lapin (14)
SpikeSetsFire (18)
ChichiriMuyo (18)
MetalmindStats (18)

General Album Comments

BlueCrystalTear: Side One here is absolute perfection. Side Two is REALLY good too.

ZaziGuado: Prog Rock is one of those genres that I feel like I would enjoy, but this album did very little for me, so maybe that's not true? It was only 40 minutes though, so it has that in its favor.

ChichiriMuyo: This album has been a "wow" for me since the first time I listened to it. Moving Pictures is an album from the early synth era, but one where the more experimental effects are relatively few and feel well placed when used*. In most places the synth is just an added instrument to accompany the power trio, almost like a virtual 4th member. It works well, as all four "instruments" get relatively equal play and all of the band's technical skill is on full display. The Camera Eye... well that imo is the only real blemish on this album.

Seanchan: I liked this album but I did not love it. I was hoping this would be another Powerslave but that proved not to be the case.

Johnbobb: I'll admit, I never fully got the hype over Moving Pictures, or even Rush itself. Don't get me wrong, it's a solid album, and Tom Sawyer is a great song. In fact most Rush songs aren't bad but I feel like, even moreso than many bands, their fans treat them like theyre objectively the greatest thing to ever happen to music, and overall I'd say this is good, but not something I ever feel like listening to if it doesn't just happen to be on the radio.

MetalmindStats: I didn't remotely love Moving Pictures, but it certainly exceeded my modest expectations given my lack of familiarity with instrumental-oriented rock.

Reg: I don't normally participate in this topic series (Or with the b8 music community at all...), but I gotta for an album I love. It's not quite my favorite Rush, but it is still great, and I saw them on the Time Machine tour, where they played the entire thing live in sequence.

ChichiriMuyo: Their fans tend to respect technical skill, and in regards to technical skill very few musicians surpass the members of Rush. Individually they've each mastered their instruments to a level that most people can only hope to achieve, and collectively they've put out some masterpieces. If in the future rock music would be studied the way classical is now, they will have a spot in that pantheon.

Now am I going to argue that technical skill alone makes them the greatest thing to ever happen to music? No, of course not. In the last century the greatest thing to happen to music was the Beatles, and uh, I don't think that's so much my argument as it is something the general public agrees on.

darkx: Other than Witch Hunt in a fairly easy last place this was actually pretty hard. Some really strong tracks on the first side and then just when I'm losing interest a bit they end with one of my favorite Rush tracks.

Moving Pictures track ranking

7. Witch Hunt (Track #6)
Score: 52 (Average Rank: 5.47/7)
Biggest Fan(s): ChichiriMuyo (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): CasanovaZelos, Jesse_Custer, neonreaper, BlueCrystalTear, ZaziGuado, Seanchan, darkx (#7)

neonreaper: To be fair to this song, it's not bad and helps flesh out the album.

BlueCrystalTear: This is about cancel culture before there were Internets. I love the theme and it's still quite good, but I just like everything else better.

6. Vital Signs (Track #7)
Score: 64 (Average Rank: 5.05/7)
Biggest Fan(s): darkx (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): TheArkOfTurus, Snake5555555555, WiggumFan267, Johnbobb, Reg, VeryInsane (#7)

neonreaper: Just listening to the album again it almost feels wrong to put this so low.

BlueCrystalTear: It gets redundant toward the end, but it's still quite the romp, and it fits well as an outro.

5. The Camera Eye (Track #5)
Score: 68 (Average Rank: 4.84/7)
Biggest Fan(s): TheArkOfTurus (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Comedy101, ChichiriMuyo, HBJDubs (#7)

neonreaper: 10 minutes of proggy goodness

BlueCrystalTear: It goes on for 11 minutes because of the alternating between epic riffs and calmer parts. And it manages to achieve a balance that makes for a great listen. It's about what a streetcorner security camera sees, yes?

4. Red Barchetta (Track #2)
Score: 102 (Average Rank: 3.79/7)
Biggest Fan(s): Snake5555555555, SpikeSetsFire, Comedy101, Reg, VeryInsane (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Jesse_Custer, neonreaper, Seanchan, Johnbobb (#6)

neonreaper: Good song, with some really nice parts, just feels like it's a tier below the other songs I like, but still a solid track 2. It's enjoyable and helps bring us from Tom Sawyer to YYZ.

BlueCrystalTear: It's a great song that feels unmemorable only because of what's around it tbqh. On many other albums, this would be a standout.

3. YYZ (Track #3)
Score: 116 (Average Rank: 3.26/7)
Biggest Fan(s): Jesse_Custer, WiggumFan267, Seanchan (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): SpikeSetsFire, Raetsel_Lapin (#7)

neonreaper: Just so fun to listen to.

BlueCrystalTear: An instrumental that's this fun is quite rare. Some of them feel like throwaways. This was clearly a jam session where they just were like "Let's kick some ass today."

WiggumFan267: YYZ incorporating the morse code into its rhythm is fantastic, I love weird time signatures.

2. Tom Sawyer (Track #1)
Score: 124 (Average Rank: 2.95/7)
Biggest Fan(s): CasanovaZelos, neonreaper, ChichiriMuyo, Johnbobb, MetalmindStats (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): SpikeSetsFire, Raetsel_Lapin, VeryInsane (#5)

neonreaper: It's a radio friendly song while still being prog, and has a really solid riff. Really good song, not overplayed yet everyone is familiar with it.

BlueCrystalTear: Good song about saying "Fuck you" to the status quo, with great vocals and musicianship. Really gets you want to listen to the rest of this.

1. Limelight (Track #4)
Score: 139 (Average Rank: 2.63/7)
Biggest Fan(s): BlueCrystalTear, ZaziGuado, HBJDubs, Raetsel_Lapin (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): MetalmindStats (#7)

neonreaper: I'm most impressed by Lee's delivery here, really elevates the song.

BlueCrystalTear: Lee's vocals here are perfect, and the musical craftsmanship is DIVINE.

Message from Spike about his 3 Nominations:

https://imgur.com/a/lcJJwu2

1. Supertramp - Breakfast in America
Breakfast in America was the sixth album by English rock band Supertramp released in 1979.
It spawned four US Billboard hit singles and topped the US charts for six weeks.
The album features hits such as, The Logical Song, Goodbye Stranger and Take the Long Way Home.
The songs are split between founding members Rick Davies and Roger Hodgson,
who have very contrasting musical and vocal styles.

2. Electric Light Orchestra - A New World Record
A New World Record is ELO's sixth studio album. Released in 1976.
The album yielded four hit singles, including Rockaria, Telephone Line and Livin' Thing.
The band's frontman, Jeff Lynne, regarded his own songwriting at this point to have reached a new high.
Rockaria features the operatic voice of Mary Thomas during the introduction.
On the first recording take, she mistakenly began the vocal too early.
However, Lynne elected to use the take (complete with her interjection, "Oops!") anyway

3. Toto - Toto IV
Toto IV is Toto's fourth studio album. Released in 1982.
It features the lead single Rosanna and power ballad I Won't Hold You Back.
Africa, which David Paich wrote, and Steve Lukather hated and said would never be popular,
was a very last minute addition to the album and tacked on as the final track.
Lukather didn't want it at all, and felt that Africa didn't match with the rest of the album.
The album peaked at #1 in many countries, including Australia.

I said this last week and can't help but note the irony that I ended up being the person I was talking about...
BlueCrystalTear posted...

That said, this week only has seven tracks so it's more likely that someone's list matches the final result. (Tag for later btw)

The tag for later carries over!

Was I the only one who discovered Brand New at a really uncomfortable time? I first heard of them when Science Fiction released, which was poised to be their big critical breakthrough, and then...

Don't pretend you didn't rig the results :p

Myself, I expected to be on the absolute other end, as I was. Not before I listened to that album, but once I was done ranking them literally one of my first thoughts was "this will not line up with the consensus decision at all."

CasanovaZelos posted...

Was I the only one who discovered Brand New at a really uncomfortable time? I first heard of them when Science Fiction released, which was poised to be their big critical breakthrough, and then...

Sort of... I had known them for only maybe a year or two from this board in a song ranking topic I did before that news.

But I think Science Fiction was rather their big commercial break-through rather than critical, because The Devil and God was already well critically-acclaimed at that point.

Isn't Deja Entendu their magnum opus? I generally can't stand this genre/era of music but open to trying out the best.

ChainLTTP posted...

Isn't Deja Entendu their magnum opus? I generally can't stand this genre/era of music but open to trying out the best.

As someone who listened to this a lot this is generally considered their best work

Nah it's definitely either Devil and God or Science Fiction, but Deja definitely has plenty of critical acclaim too.

Awesome

Very glad to see Breakfast in America on today's poll. It was (/is) on the shortlist of albums I'm considering putting on mine.

I'd also be very happy seeing A New World Record being selected. It'd be my first listen from front to back, but it has my personal favorite ELO song on it.

I meant Devil btw

CasanovaZelos posted...

Message from Spike about his 3 Nominations:

Thanks for posting that for me!

Underleveled posted...

Very glad to see Breakfast in America on today's poll. It was (/is) on the shortlist of albums I'm considering putting on mine.

I'd also be very happy seeing A New World Record being selected. It'd be my first listen from front to back, but it has my personal favorite ELO song on it.

Me too! I'll be happy with whatever gets chosen!
I could have put them in any order, honestly.

All I wanna do when I wake up in the morning is bump this topic... Rosanna, Rosanna.

Did a first listen today. Bizarrely, THIS is one of the few bands we've covered, not nominated by myself, that I've actually listened to a full album from. While I'd heard parts of Your Favorite Weapon, it was Deja Entendu that got quite a bit of play back when I was in college.

The Devil and God Are Raging Inside Me was new to me though and I was enjoying it, or at least parts of it. At any rate, it did make me go back and listen to Deja Entendu again for the first time in forever and, yes, that's still pretty good. Though I wasn't enjoying the practically 20 year mental trip back in time it created... There's something about some of the "screamy" vocals in parts of Brand New's albums that feels firmly rooted in that early/mid 2000s culture that's a little offputting.

It seems pretty evident Toto won't be making it as the album of the week. (14 votes already. 6-7-1. 12 has been the average).
So, I'll say this here, I guess, as there probably won't be another opportunity to talk about Toto.

Africa is my #1 favourite song... Ever. I love it to bits.
And when Toto came to Australia 3 years ago to play live... holy shit was I excited.

Only Steve Lukather and Steve Porcaro were there as original members.
David Paich (who sings most of Africa and plays keyboard) was sick and couldn't make it.
I was baffled why Bobby Kimball wasn't coming. (He sings the chorus in Africa).

So I had to do some research. Apparently, he was kicked out. Replaced with Joseph Williams.
You may know Joseph from singing The Lion King songs and being the son of film composer John Williams.

Anyway, Joseph nailed every song with his beautiful voice. The band kicked arse.
And it was the greatest night of my life. Co-incidentally, it was on my birthday as well.

As for Bobby Kimball, all I had to do was watch this YouTube video, and I was kind of glad he wasn't there.
Brace yourself for the worst rendition of Africa you will ever see.
And just when you think it couldn't possibly get any more cringe, the unthinkable happens at 4:16min...

https://youtu.be/HSvWSYgSM-g

this is a super difficult album to listen to for a multitude of reasons, but it really is pretty unimpeachable at what it does

will aim to rank later this week

SpikeSetsFire posted...

It seems pretty evident Toto won't be making it as the album of the week. (14 votes already. 6-7-1. 12 has been the average).
So, I'll say this here, I guess, as there probably won't be another opportunity to talk about Toto.

I don't think there's any "rule" that stops anyone from nominating an album again?

Seanchan posted...

I don't think there's any "rule" that stops anyone from nominating an album again?

You can always try again. I even dropped an initial rule that 10 weeks needed to pass between albums by the same artist - if, for whatever reason, two people wanted to nominate the same act back to back and everyone else voted for those two albums, that's fine. There's very few limits on what cannot be suggested for the poll. As long as an album has not been covered already, it should be fair game.

Good to know.

1. Jesus Christ
2. Limousine
3. Sowing Season
4. Not the Sun
5. The Archers' Bows Have Broken
6. Handcuffs
7. Millstone
8. You Won't Know
9. Degausser
10. Luca
11. Untitled
12. Welcome to Bangkok

bump

Just did my 2nd "prelim" ranking listen. This is going to be one of those tough to rank albums, I can tell already.

As I've only done the 2 listens, it's hard to truly judge against Deja Entendu, but this one doesn't feel as "fun" to me. It's also an album that makes me feel "lyrically deaf". As in, the words on a lot of the songs are just not reaching my brain with any level of comprehension of overall meaning. But that's probably just a me thing.

One of the greatest albums of all time. Many days, I think it is the best record ever made.

1. Limousine
2. Degausser
3. Jesus Christ
4. Sowing Season
5. Untitled
6. Millstone
7. Luca
8. Handcuffs
9. You Won't Know
10. The Archers' Bows Have Broken
11. Not the Sun
12. Welcome to Bangkok

Literally impossible to rank the top 5. You could interchange them in the rankings and I wouldn't remotely care. Sowing Season was my #1 originally for example, and I have no reason to have now put it at 4 except this is a perfect record that is impossible to rank in a topic like this.

1. Millstone
2. Jesus Christ
3. Limousine
4. You Wont Know
5. Degausser
6. Handcuffs
7. Sowing Season
8. Untitled
9. The Archers Bows Are Broken
10. Not The Sun
11. Welcome To Bangkok
12. Luca

Need to find time to listen...

1: Jesus Christ
2: Handcuffs
3: Millstone
4: Archers
5: Sowing Season (Yeah)
6: Untitled
7: You Won't Know
8: Degausser
9: Welcome to Bangkok
10: Luca
11: Not the Sun
12: Limousine

1. Sowing Season (Yeah)
2. Welcome to Bangkok
3. Limousine
4. Luca
5. Untitled
6. Jesus Christ
7. Handcuffs
8. Millstone
9. Degausser
10. Not the Sun
11. You Won't Know
12. Archers

Didn't really care for this album much at all past the first song.

Seanchan posted...

It's also an album that makes me feel "lyrically deaf". As in, the words on a lot of the songs are just not reaching my brain with any level of comprehension of overall meaning.

This has also approximated my experience with it so far, for what it's worth.

This was pleasant enough, but I found the strength of the album to be the juxtaposition between tracks. There isn't much distance between my placements here.

My ranking:
Jesus Christ
Archers
Degausser
Luca
You Won't Know
Sowing Season (Yeah)
Not the Sun
Millstone
Welcome to Bangkok
Limousine
Handcuffs
Untitled

1. Limousine
2. Jesus Christ
3. Archers
4. Not the Sun
5. Handcuffs
6. Millstone
7. Degausser
8. Welcome to Bangkok
9. Sowing Season (Yeah)
10. You Won't Know
11. Luca
12. Untitled

My previous comments were just reinforced by the repeated listenings. It's a good enough album but I don't like it more than Deja Entendu, though I recognize that's partially based upon lack of long term familiarity. And I did find this a difficult one to rank.

MetalmindStats posted...

This has also approximated my experience with it so far, for what it's worth.

Glad to know I'm not the one one? I felt like I was just missing a layer with this album. When we listened to Taylor Swift it was obviously the focus on the lyrics and storytelling, but it was also easy to follow. Then we've had stuff like Iron Maiden, Spice Girls, or The Knife where it's more about the instrumentation and/or the "vibe", and I don't care (or don't have to care) about the lyrics.

With The Devil and God...I couldn't escape the idea that I was missing something by not understanding the story and the lyrics and the meaning of the songs. For example, I did a tiny bit of research behind Limousine and found out it's based on a true story of a seven year old girl getting killed by a drunk driver. Was the girl someone related to a band member? (Pretty sure that's not the case.) Did the story touch a nerve with a band member because of them having a history with drunk driving? There's also seemingly a lot of religious references in these songs. Why is that?

Unfortunately, I'm usually just looking to enjoy an album with these rankings and not deep dive into the circumstances behind a band's output. And so, for better or worse, I'm mostly left to judge based on surface impressions.

You Won't Know
Sowing Season
Degausser
Not the Sun
Limousine
Jesus
Millstone
Luca
Archers
Untitled
Welcome to Bangkok
Handcuffs

I will have to do this in the morning because the volleyball game went an hour later than I thought it would.

I'll let you know if I don't get around to it so you can post the new topic. >_>

I will probably be putting up the next topic a bit later tomorrow

1. Millstone
2. Archers
3. Not the Sun
4. Degausser
5. Sowing Season (Yeah)
6. Handcuffs
7. Jesus Christ
8. You Wont Know
9. Luca
10. Limousine
11. Untitled
12. Welcome to Bangkok

Sorry Snake, I feel bad even posting this.

I must admit, I'm relieved more than anything that this album did nothing for me even in isolation. It comes off as a sort of dense, disparate tone poem - too dense and disparate to grasp, as I touched on before. Yet it's somehow united by Brand New's musical sensibility and subject matter seemingly woven from Lacey's neuroses, ego, and, frankly, misdeeds. Obtuse yet emotionally vulnerable, a certain personal touch feels abundant here. It's an approach that clearly has worked for many others over the years, but here and now, I find it moreso impedes some surprisingly engaging compositions. That might be a mere artifact of my mental blinders and musical biases, though. Ultimately, I'm walking away from it feeling dreadfully conflicted, circling around to emptiness. I recognize that there's something here I'm not getting, but not why I should care about what I'm missing, much less enough to ignore its baggage.

Don't feel bad, I'm just glad you gave it a chance and to be honest, I think walking away from this album conflicted and even a little empty is a perfectly valid feeling to have from this album. I didn't come away from my first listen totally loving this album, it genuinely took me awhile and close listens to really appreciate it. I relate to many of the songs here, while some lyrics are still shrouded in mystery for me and I enjoy that aspect of the album. It's why it continues to grow on me and I still enjoy every repeated listen. There's a certain darkness & anxiety-inducing fear in this album I've ever rarely felt from any other musical work and that includes warts and all.

I couldn't get through this album because each time I tried I felt distressingly depressed.

Gonna have to do this with one listen, because I have things to do today (including a volleyball championship rally ^_^)
~
This is a very hard album to rank because the tracks are - for the most part - pretty equal. There aren't many true standouts because, save for one, I'd give them all between a B+ and A. This was brutal to do with a single listen so I had to go through a few a second time.

1. Limousine
2. Archers
3. Jesus Christ
4. Handcuffs
5. Sowing Season (Yeah)
6. Millstone
7. Degausser
8. You Won't Know
9. Untitled
10. Luca
10. Not the Sun
12. Welcome to Bangkok

so, uh, yeah. this thing.

this isn't a style of music I typically enjoy, but this is quite the record. I agree with Chichiri that it's a profoundly difficult record to get through, but therein lies its power - it's rare to hear a record paint quite such a harrowing portrait of shame, insecurity and self-loathing as this one (the takes above calling this emotionally opaque are baffling and fascinating to me, i couldn't disagree more). the fact that we now know precisely why lacey was feeling so guilty only adds an extra layer of "challenge" to the listening experience. fortunately (or otherwise, you decide), it's worth the effort because the music is so damn good - the band really steals the best of the LCW-era modest mouse sound, and the added post-hardcore snarl of the guitars really sells the whole thing too. this is immaculately packaged despair, and there's a place in the world for that - just don't expect me to listen to it often

sowing season
you won't know
handcuffs
archers
degausser
limousine
jesus
millstone
luca
not the sun
untitled
welcome to bangkok

(provisional ranking - re-listening now, subject to change)

Giggsalot posted...

(the takes above calling this emotionally opaque are baffling and fascinating to me, i couldn't disagree more)

I should clarify - when I called it obtuse, I was not dinging its vulnerability, the way Lacey evidently bared his soul in its creation. I used the word mostly to indicate how personally inaccessible I found it in spite of those characteristics.

Snake5555555555 posted...

Don't feel bad, I'm just glad you gave it a chance and to be honest, I think walking away from this album conflicted and even a little empty is a perfectly valid feeling to have from this album.

Thank you, though the reason I feel bad is because I came into this week prejudiced against it, and I struggled to shake that lens even after three listens.

Still away from my computer, but I will have the results up when I get back home.

Next week will also probably be late due to the holidays.