Poll of the Day > Have you ever refused to do something in a video game specifically because...

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Unbridled9 12/11/21 12:56:53 PM #1:	It would hurt a NPC's feelings? Themed runs don't count. This is just general play. <cite>Unbridled9 posted [p:960822127] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote>It would hurt a NPC's feelings? Themed runs don't count. This is just general play. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Criminalt 12/11/21 12:59:06 PM #2:	Yeah, I won't steal from Orc strongholds when I'm playing as an Orc in Skyrim because they're my people. --- No tricks <cite>Criminalt posted [p:960822167] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote>Yeah, I won't steal from Orc strongholds when I'm playing as an Orc in Skyrim because they're my people. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
PK_Spam 12/11/21 1:22:30 PM #3:	Depends on if Im doing a run specifically to be a dickhead. Otherwise Ill usually take the kind option --- "You're not a good person, you'll never be one, you'll never even convince anyone to mistakenly believe you to be one." -HCE to me <cite>PK_Spam posted [p:960822700] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote>Depends on if Im doing a run specifically to be a dickhead. Otherwise Ill usually take the kind option </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ParanoidObsessive 12/11/21 1:23:26 PM #4:	Yes. All the time. Depends on the game and the sort of character I'm playing, but I always value narrative and character decisions over purely mechanical ones. Hell, I'll wear substandard armor simply because it looks better than something stronger. Criminalt posted... Yeah, I won't steal from Orc strongholds when I'm playing as an Orc in Skyrim because they're my people. I generally don't steal from anyone unless I'm playing a Thieves' Guild run. And even then I tend to prioritize stealing from people I don't like over people who are innocent or poor. --- "Wall of Text'D!" --- oldskoolplayr76 "POwned again." --- blight family <cite>ParanoidObsessive posted [p:960822725] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote>Yes. All the time. Depends on the game and the sort of character I'm playing, but I always value narrative and character decisions over purely mechanical ones. Hell, I'll wear substandard armor simply because it looks better than something stronger. <cite>Criminalt posted...</cite> <quote>Yeah, I won't steal from Orc strongholds when I'm playing as an Orc in Skyrim because they're my people.</quote> I generally don't steal from anyone unless I'm playing a Thieves' Guild run. And even then I tend to prioritize stealing from people I don't like over people who are innocent or poor.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Criminalt 12/11/21 1:29:13 PM #5:	ParanoidObsessive posted... And even then I tend to prioritize stealing from people I don't like Like hold guards who warn you to stay out of trouble because you're obviously being racially profiled. --- No tricks <cite>Criminalt posted [p:960822868] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote>ParanoidObsessive posted... </cite> <quote>And even then I tend to prioritize stealing from people I don't like</quote>Like hold guards who warn you to stay out of trouble because you're obviously being racially profiled. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
chelsea_wtf 12/11/21 1:34:44 PM #6:	yeah of course. why the fuck would i play a video game if i didnt care about the characters feelings --- if thine enemy oppresseth you, you must let them oppress you some more <cite>chelsea_wtf posted [p:960823009] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote>yeah of course. why the fuck would i play a video game if i didnt care about the characters feelings </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
The_tall_midget 12/11/21 1:38:38 PM #7:	People do that all the time. Any game which gives you a choice between being "good" vs more "evil", people tend to choose good in the overwhelming majority of times because they don't want to play a character that's an ass. Didn't like 90% of players picked paragon for their runs of Mass Effect? Pretty sure most people also picked NCR in Fallout: NV over Ceasar's Legion, which I could actually understand even from a gameplay perspective since CL route was almost unfinished. --- Let's go Brandon! <cite>The_tall_midget posted [p:960823133] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote>People do that all the time. Any game which gives you a choice between being "good" vs more "evil", people tend to choose good in the overwhelming majority of times because they don't want to play a character that's an ass. Didn't like 90% of players picked paragon for their runs of Mass Effect? Pretty sure most people also picked NCR in Fallout: NV over Ceasar's Legion, which I could actually understand even from a gameplay perspective since CL route was almost unfinished. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Criminalt 12/11/21 1:44:39 PM #8:	In fact I'd argue that mindless, anarchic rampages in games aren't really that much fun and it's more satisfying to set your own boundaries and rules for yourself and try to play within them. --- No tricks <cite>Criminalt posted [p:960823312] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote>In fact I'd argue that mindless, anarchic rampages in games aren't really that much fun and it's more satisfying to set your own boundaries and rules for yourself and try to play within them. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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ParanoidObsessive 12/11/21 1:48:29 PM #10:	Criminalt posted... Like hold guards who warn you to stay out of trouble because you're obviously being racially profiled. Well, I wouldn't know because I never play filthy subhuman scum. --- "Wall of Text'D!" --- oldskoolplayr76 "POwned again." --- blight family <cite>ParanoidObsessive posted [p:960823420] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote><cite>Criminalt posted...</cite> <quote>Like hold guards who warn you to stay out of trouble because you're obviously being racially profiled.</quote> Well, I wouldn't know because I never play filthy subhuman scum.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
rexcrk 12/11/21 1:49:05 PM #11:	Sometimes. But I tell myself its just a video game and not real --- Tell my tale to those who ask. Tell it truly, the ill deeds, along with the good, and let me be judged accordingly. The rest... is silence. <cite>rexcrk posted [p:960823432] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote>Sometimes. But I tell myself its just a video game and not real </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Criminalt 12/11/21 1:53:58 PM #12:	ParanoidObsessive posted... Well, I wouldn't know because I never play filthy subhuman scum. What people like you like to forget is that it's the Empire that's keeping the Dominion out of Skyrim. --- No tricks <cite>Criminalt posted [p:960823552] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote>ParanoidObsessive posted... </cite> <quote>Well, I wouldn't know because I never play filthy subhuman scum.</quote>What people like you like to forget is that it's the Empire that's keeping the Dominion out of Skyrim. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
adjl 12/11/21 1:54:48 PM #13:	Any time I play Majora's Mask, I try to make a point of beating the game after I reunite Anju and Kafei instead of playing the Song of Time. They want to greet the morning together, so I'm going to make sure they have a morning to greet, dammit. --- This is my signature. It exists to keep people from skipping the last line of my posts. <cite>adjl posted [p:960823578] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote>Any time I play Majora's Mask, I try to make a point of beating the game after I reunite Anju and Kafei instead of playing the Song of Time. They want to greet the morning together, so I'm going to make sure they have a morning to greet, dammit. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dikitain 12/11/21 1:58:24 PM #14:	I will Role Play in a game that can be done in such a way. How I do so depends on what I feel like doing in the game. For example, my character in Fallout: New Vegas was so disgusted by Caesar's Legion that he would automatically kill on sight anyone he saw from them, even going to their camp and wiping them out before I got to the part of the game where I could start their quest line. --- After 16 years, I have decided my signature will NOT be about my job! But I still don't know what to put here so...yea... <cite>Dikitain posted [p:960823668] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote>I will Role Play in a game that can be done in such a way. How I do so depends on what I feel like doing in the game. For example, my character in Fallout: New Vegas was so disgusted by Caesar's Legion that he would automatically kill on sight anyone he saw from them, even going to their camp and wiping them out before I got to the part of the game where I could start their quest line. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ParanoidObsessive 12/11/21 2:08:09 PM #15:	Criminalt posted... What people like you like to forget is that it's the Empire that's keeping the Dominion out of Skyrim. The Empire can't even keep the Dominion out of Cyrodiil! Plus, they don't seem to be keeping them out of Skyrim either, considering how many Thalmor I've had to stab in the face. --- "Wall of Text'D!" --- oldskoolplayr76 "POwned again." --- blight family <cite>ParanoidObsessive posted [p:960823928] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote><cite>Criminalt posted...</cite> <quote>What people like you like to forget is that it's the Empire that's keeping the Dominion out of Skyrim.</quote> The Empire can't even keep the Dominion out of Cyrodiil! Plus, they don't seem to be keeping them out of Skyrim either, considering how many Thalmor I've had to stab in the face.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MeadCore 12/11/21 2:09:24 PM #16:	I strangely only feel this way when playing as male characters. If I play as a female character I dont give a fuck --- I have Borderline Personality Disorder. If you have a problem with that then keep it to yourself. <cite>MeadCore posted [p:960823961] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote>I strangely only feel this way when playing as male characters. If I play as a female character I dont give a fuck </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
adjl 12/11/21 2:34:10 PM #17:	The_tall_midget posted... Didn't like 90% of players picked paragon for their runs of Mass Effect? I tried doing a Renegade run after beating it as Paragon and quickly lost interest in the game because it just wasn't fun to be a dick for no reason like that. It can sometimes be entertaining to not be the good guy, but so much of that was just like "Hello! How are you?" "Eat shit and die.", which is so absurdly exaggerated that it's just kinda dumb. --- This is my signature. It exists to keep people from skipping the last line of my posts. <cite>adjl posted [p:960824616] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote>The_tall_midget posted... </cite> <quote>Didn't like 90% of players picked paragon for their runs of Mass Effect?</quote> I tried doing a Renegade run after beating it as Paragon and quickly lost interest in the game because it just wasn't fun to be a dick for no reason like that. It can sometimes be entertaining to not be the good guy, but so much of that was just like "Hello! How are you?" "Eat shit and die.", which is so absurdly exaggerated that it's just kinda dumb. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ParanoidObsessive 12/11/21 2:57:46 PM #18:	adjl posted... I tried doing a Renegade run after beating it as Paragon and quickly lost interest in the game because it just wasn't fun to be a dick for no reason like that. It can sometimes be entertaining to not be the good guy, but so much of that was just like "Hello! How are you?" "Eat shit and die.", which is so absurdly exaggerated that it's just kinda dumb. The problem is they present it sort of like the difference between "hero" and "badass", but because they were still coming off of KotOR with the Light Side/Dark Side dynamic, about half the Renegade choices just sort of come across like "Be an asshole". Alpha Protocol does it better, where your options are basically to be professional, sarcastic, or aggressive. Or as they put it, you're choosing whether you're Jason Bourne, James Bond, or Jack Bauer. It's not really "good" or "evil", or even "nice"/"dick", as much as it is how you view missions and the best methodology for engaging. Of course, in Alpha Protocol, you're kind of a dick no matter what options you pick - there really isn't a "good guy" option. --- "Wall of Text'D!" --- oldskoolplayr76 "POwned again." --- blight family <cite>ParanoidObsessive posted [p:960825207] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote><cite>adjl posted...</cite> <quote>I tried doing a Renegade run after beating it as Paragon and quickly lost interest in the game because it just wasn't fun to be a dick for no reason like that. It can sometimes be entertaining to not be the good guy, but so much of that was just like "Hello! How are you?" "Eat shit and die.", which is so absurdly exaggerated that it's just kinda dumb.</quote> The problem is they present it sort of like the difference between "hero" and "badass", but because they were still coming off of KotOR with the Light Side/Dark Side dynamic, about half the Renegade choices just sort of come across like "Be an asshole". Alpha Protocol does it better, where your options are basically to be professional, sarcastic, or aggressive. Or as they put it, you're choosing whether you're Jason Bourne, James Bond, or Jack Bauer. It's not really "good" or "evil", or even "nice"/"dick", as much as it is how you view missions and the best methodology for engaging. Of course, in Alpha Protocol, you're kind of a dick no matter what options you pick - there really isn't a "good guy" option.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JOExHIGASHI 12/11/21 3:33:08 PM #19:	no --- Next Xbox will be named Xbox1 2 <cite>JOExHIGASHI posted [p:960826142] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote>no </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Metalsonic66 12/11/21 3:53:13 PM #20:	ParanoidObsessive posted... Depends on the game and the sort of character I'm playing --- PSN/Steam ID: Metalsonic_69 Big bombs go kabang. <cite>Metalsonic66 posted [p:960826677] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote>ParanoidObsessive posted... </cite> <quote>Depends on the game and the sort of character I'm playing</quote> </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
keyblader1985 12/11/21 4:29:07 PM #21:	Very often. Generally the only times I act like an asshole in a game is when I'm specifically doing a bad guy run or trying to blow off some IRL steam (in which case I go on murderous rampages in GTA). Otherwise I don't like being a jerk even in fantasy, because being bad feels bad. --- Official King of PotD You only need one T-Rex to make the point, though. ~ Samus Sedai <cite>keyblader1985 posted [p:960827498] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote>Very often. Generally the only times I act like an asshole in a game is when I'm specifically doing a bad guy run or trying to blow off some IRL steam (in which case I go on murderous rampages in GTA). Otherwise I don't like being a jerk even in fantasy, because being bad feels bad. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
WavyNoobSauce 12/11/21 5:26:39 PM #22:	In Jade Empire I could never screw Old Mother Kwan out of her teahouse even when I did evil playthroughs. --- Thank You BasedGod! http://i.imgur.com/TdWrPRT.gif <cite>WavyNoobSauce posted [p:960828761] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote>In Jade Empire I could never screw Old Mother Kwan out of her teahouse even when I did evil playthroughs. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Bulbasaur 12/11/21 6:10:09 PM #23:	ParanoidObsessive posted... you're choosing whether you're Jason Bourne, James Bond, or Jack Bauer. ...why are they all j's and b's --- there is blood on my hands how long til it lies on my heart <cite>Bulbasaur posted [p:960829814] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote>ParanoidObsessive posted... </cite> <quote>you're choosing whether you're Jason Bourne, James Bond, or Jack Bauer.</quote>...why are they all j's and b's </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Cacciato 12/11/21 6:23:05 PM #24:	Bulbasaur posted... ...why are they all j's and b's Joe Bidens fault. <cite>Cacciato posted [p:960830123] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote>Bulbasaur posted... </cite> <quote>...why are they all j's and b's</quote>Joe Bidens fault. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ViewtifulJoe 12/11/21 6:39:58 PM #25:	Well yes ideally you'd want a game's world to make sense and encourage you to think about things like this. --- Still waiting on that third threat <cite>ViewtifulJoe posted [p:960830529] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote>Well yes ideally you'd want a game's world to make sense and encourage you to think about things like this. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Unbridled9 12/11/21 7:08:32 PM #26:	adjl posted... I tried doing a Renegade run after beating it as Paragon and quickly lost interest in the game because it just wasn't fun to be a dick for no reason like that. It can sometimes be entertaining to not be the good guy, but so much of that was just like "Hello! How are you?" "Eat shit and die.", which is so absurdly exaggerated that it's just kinda dumb. The elevator scene in ME2 is fun as heck though to Renegade. <cite>Unbridled9 posted [p:960831237] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote>adjl posted... </cite> <quote>I tried doing a Renegade run after beating it as Paragon and quickly lost interest in the game because it just wasn't fun to be a dick for no reason like that. It can sometimes be entertaining to not be the good guy, but so much of that was just like "Hello! How are you?" "Eat shit and die.", which is so absurdly exaggerated that it's just kinda dumb.</quote> The elevator scene in ME2 is fun as heck though to Renegade. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnMead 12/11/21 7:10:50 PM #27:	Mass Effect is one of the few games where they got the darker side right imo. Its more about just being kind of a dick and getting the job done. I dont like it in games where you can be good or evil/bad but the darker options just feel like a cartoon villain. --- Certifiable. He/him They/them <cite>UnMead posted [p:960831305] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote>Mass Effect is one of the few games where they got the darker side right imo. Its more about just being kind of a dick and getting the job done. I dont like it in games where you can be good or evil/bad but the darker options just feel like a cartoon villain. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
adjl 12/11/21 7:23:55 PM #28:	ParanoidObsessive posted... Alpha Protocol does it better, where your options are basically to be professional, sarcastic, or aggressive. Or as they put it, you're choosing whether you're Jason Bourne, James Bond, or Jack Bauer. It's not really "good" or "evil", or even "nice"/"dick", as much as it is how you view missions and the best methodology for engaging. Of course, in Alpha Protocol, you're kind of a dick no matter what options you pick - there really isn't a "good guy" option. Indeed, I liked how that one worked (although it fell prey to the issue of dialogue options not really reflecting what the character would say, which is annoying). The Witcher was another one that I really liked in that regard. Mostly, trying to turn these choices systems into a binary morality rating tends to end up being weird and awkward, so it's much more organic to give choices with more direct consequences. Unbridled9 posted... The elevator scene in ME2 is fun as heck though to Renegade. I wouldn't know. I've actually still only ever played the first ME. It was entertaining enough, and I've meant to get 2 ever since I finished it, but I've just never gotten around to it. --- This is my signature. It exists to keep people from skipping the last line of my posts. <cite>adjl posted [p:960831657] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote>ParanoidObsessive posted... </cite> <quote>Alpha Protocol does it better, where your options are basically to be professional, sarcastic, or aggressive. Or as they put it, you're choosing whether you're Jason Bourne, James Bond, or Jack Bauer. It's not really "good" or "evil", or even "nice"/"dick", as much as it is how you view missions and the best methodology for engaging. Of course, in Alpha Protocol, you're kind of a dick no matter what options you pick - there really isn't a "good guy" option.</quote> Indeed, I liked how that one worked (although it fell prey to the issue of dialogue options not really reflecting what the character would say, which is annoying). The Witcher was another one that I really liked in that regard. Mostly, trying to turn these choices systems into a binary morality rating tends to end up being weird and awkward, so it's much more organic to give choices with more direct consequences. Unbridled9 posted... </cite> <quote>The elevator scene in ME2 is fun as heck though to Renegade.</quote> I wouldn't know. I've actually still only ever played the first ME. It was entertaining enough, and I've meant to get 2 ever since I finished it, but I've just never gotten around to it. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Unbridled9 12/11/21 8:00:25 PM #29:	In ME2 there's a scene in an elevator where a minion says, very smugly, that he won't tell you anything. So you push him off the elevator while going 'How about goodbye?' <cite>Unbridled9 posted [p:960832512] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote>In ME2 there's a scene in an elevator where a minion says, very smugly, that he won't tell you anything. So you push him off the elevator while going 'How about goodbye?' </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
The_tall_midget 12/12/21 12:51:45 AM #30:	adjl posted... I tried doing a Renegade run after beating it as Paragon and quickly lost interest in the game because it just wasn't fun to be a dick for no reason like that. It can sometimes be entertaining to not be the good guy, but so much of that was just like "Hello! How are you?" "Eat shit and die.", which is so absurdly exaggerated that it's just kinda dumb. Pretty much. I just want companies to realize that a "evil" option does not necessarily means that your character HAS to be an asshole to everyone. You can have a villain that is a nice person to most people, but is so dangerously pragmatic that his ability to empathize goes out the window the moment that the ends justifies the means. Tactics Ogre let us cling together actually does a good job of putting your character in a situation where he HAS to a villain to succeed no matter what; the circumstances in which his country is in basically forces him to. He's not a bad person, per se, but just being nice would never get the job done. --- Let's go Brandon! <cite>The_tall_midget posted [p:960839136] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote>adjl posted... </cite> <quote>I tried doing a Renegade run after beating it as Paragon and quickly lost interest in the game because it just wasn't fun to be a dick for no reason like that. It can sometimes be entertaining to not be the good guy, but so much of that was just like "Hello! How are you?" "Eat shit and die.", which is so absurdly exaggerated that it's just kinda dumb.</quote> Pretty much. I just want companies to realize that a "evil" option does not necessarily means that your character HAS to be an asshole to everyone. You can have a villain that is a nice person to most people, but is so dangerously pragmatic that his ability to empathize goes out the window the moment that the ends justifies the means. Tactics Ogre let us cling together actually does a good job of putting your character in a situation where he HAS to a villain to succeed no matter what; the circumstances in which his country is in basically forces him to. He's not a bad person, per se, but just being nice would never get the job done. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lokarin 12/12/21 2:21:03 AM #31:	I got the pacifist clear of undertale and will never play it again cuz i won't want to hurt their feelings --- "Salt cures Everything!" My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/Nirakolov/videos <cite>Lokarin posted [p:960840601] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote>I got the pacifist clear of undertale and will never play it again cuz i won't want to hurt their feelings </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DragonClaw01 12/12/21 2:24:34 AM #32:	ParanoidObsessive posted... The problem is they present it sort of like the difference between "hero" and "badass", but because they were still coming off of KotOR with the Light Side/Dark Side dynamic, about half the Renegade choices just sort of come across like "Be an asshole". Alpha Protocol does it better, where your options are basically to be professional, sarcastic, or aggressive. Or as they put it, you're choosing whether you're Jason Bourne, James Bond, or Jack Bauer. It's not really "good" or "evil", or even "nice"/"dick", as much as it is how you view missions and the best methodology for engaging. Of course, in Alpha Protocol, you're kind of a dick no matter what options you pick - there really isn't a "good guy" option. That is the issue with most video games. You either are a goody two shoes helping out every stray beggar with thier problems or you are burning down the orphanages while twirling your mustache. Not too much middle ground. --- <('.'<) <(^.^)> (>'.')> Splendiferous <cite>DragonClaw01 posted [p:960840647] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote>ParanoidObsessive posted... </cite> <quote>The problem is they present it sort of like the difference between "hero" and "badass", but because they were still coming off of KotOR with the Light Side/Dark Side dynamic, about half the Renegade choices just sort of come across like "Be an asshole". Alpha Protocol does it better, where your options are basically to be professional, sarcastic, or aggressive. Or as they put it, you're choosing whether you're Jason Bourne, James Bond, or Jack Bauer. It's not really "good" or "evil", or even "nice"/"dick", as much as it is how you view missions and the best methodology for engaging. Of course, in Alpha Protocol, you're kind of a dick no matter what options you pick - there really isn't a "good guy" option.</quote>That is the issue with most video games. You either are a goody two shoes helping out every stray beggar with thier problems or you are burning down the orphanages while twirling your mustache. Not too much middle ground. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zikten 12/12/21 2:40:55 AM #33:	Depends on the npc. I can only think of one specific time where I can say I couldn't bring myself to be mean. In Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines. There is a quest where you deal with a breach of the Masquerade. Someone leaked knowledge of vampire society to a mortal You have a choice in how to deal with it but the first time around, I told the npc they had violated Kindred law, but I didn't intend it to as far as it did. My guy took that choice to mean "let's execute!" The NPC started begging for their life and I was forced into combat. After the NPC was dead I decided reload from before I talked to them, and let them go free The voice actor for the NPC when begging for mercy, is way too good. It was horrible to hear their terror and desperation. I felt like a monster <cite>Zikten posted [p:960840834] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote>Depends on the npc. I can only think of one specific time where I can say I couldn't bring myself to be mean. In Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines. There is a quest where you deal with a breach of the Masquerade. Someone leaked knowledge of vampire society to a mortal You have a choice in how to deal with it but the first time around, I told the npc they had violated Kindred law, but I didn't intend it to as far as it did. My guy took that choice to mean "let's execute!" The NPC started begging for their life and I was forced into combat. After the NPC was dead I decided reload from before I talked to them, and let them go free The voice actor for the NPC when begging for mercy, is way too good. It was horrible to hear their terror and desperation. I felt like a monster</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
The_tall_midget 12/12/21 4:40:53 AM #34:	DragonClaw01 posted... That is the issue with most video games. You either are a goody two shoes helping out every stray beggar with thier problems or you are burning down the orphanages while twirling your mustache. Not too much middle ground. KOTOR II made a few interesting deconstruction of the good guy scenario with Kreia. There is a point where you can help a refugee by giving him money and she immediately chastise you for giving something to someone who hasn't earned it, and is not capable of hanging on to it, which will eventually cause misery for them and others. And the worst part? She's right, because while she's preaching you, you can see a cutscene where the guy you just gave money to is accosted by other refugees/thugs who noticed he had cash, and he's immediately mugged/killed. There is also a quest where a mother is looking for her child or something, and if you decide to resolve it by basically saying "good luck, I am sure you'll find her," instead of actively helping her, Kreia is very pleased that you let her solve her own problems. --- Let's go Brandon! <cite>The_tall_midget posted [p:960842008] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote>DragonClaw01 posted... </cite> <quote>That is the issue with most video games. You either are a goody two shoes helping out every stray beggar with thier problems or you are burning down the orphanages while twirling your mustache. Not too much middle ground.</quote> KOTOR II made a few interesting deconstruction of the good guy scenario with Kreia. There is a point where you can help a refugee by giving him money and she immediately chastise you for giving something to someone who hasn't earned it, and is not capable of hanging on to it, which will eventually cause misery for them and others. And the worst part? She's right, because while she's preaching you, you can see a cutscene where the guy you just gave money to is accosted by other refugees/thugs who noticed he had cash, and he's immediately mugged/killed. There is also a quest where a mother is looking for her child or something, and if you decide to resolve it by basically saying "good luck, I am sure you'll find her," instead of actively helping her, Kreia is very pleased that you let her solve her own problems. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UltraIchi 12/12/21 6:53:00 AM #35:	chelsea_wtf posted... yeah of course. why the fuck would i play a video game if i didnt care about the characters feelings Gta --- I am evil https://i.imgur.com/kNEhaIe.mp4 <cite>UltraIchi posted [p:960843051] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote>chelsea_wtf posted... </cite> <quote>yeah of course. why the fuck would i play a video game if i didnt care about the characters feelings</quote>Gta </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Unbridled9 12/12/21 8:48:07 AM #36:	The_tall_midget posted... KOTOR II made a few interesting deconstruction of the good guy scenario with Kreia. There is a point where you can help a refugee by giving him money and she immediately chastise you for giving something to someone who hasn't earned it, and is not capable of hanging on to it, which will eventually cause misery for them and others. And the worst part? She's right, because while she's preaching you, you can see a cutscene where the guy you just gave money to is accosted by other refugees/thugs who noticed he had cash, and he's immediately mugged/killed. There is also a quest where a mother is looking for her child or something, and if you decide to resolve it by basically saying "good luck, I am sure you'll find her," instead of actively helping her, Kreia is very pleased that you let her solve her own problems. The problem with her philosophy is that it's nihilistic and pessimistic to an absurd degree and fails to back up it's own statements. Using that cutscene as an example, if you don't give the guy money, he instead goes off and mugs some other people. So if you give him money he gets mugged, but if you don't give him money he mugs other people. As such there is no 'right' choice to make and the 'only' solution is to be an apathetic, self-interested, jerk because any time you try to do anything else it will amount to nothing. Except this flies in the fact of the games very structure where your choices DO have a major impact for good or evil and you DO actively improve the lives of others you meet and work with through your own actions and choices. In other words, Kreia's philosophy is utterly bleak, forced, and self-interested and doesn't back itself up in the slightest in a game where the whole point is the exact opposite. You don't even get some statistical advantage by being 'grey' as the best powers are behind the extremes. Meaning your best bet is to effectively tell her to shove it and act like a hero/jerk. <cite>Unbridled9 posted [p:960844429] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote>The_tall_midget posted... </cite> <quote>KOTOR II made a few interesting deconstruction of the good guy scenario with Kreia. There is a point where you can help a refugee by giving him money and she immediately chastise you for giving something to someone who hasn't earned it, and is not capable of hanging on to it, which will eventually cause misery for them and others. And the worst part? She's right, because while she's preaching you, you can see a cutscene where the guy you just gave money to is accosted by other refugees/thugs who noticed he had cash, and he's immediately mugged/killed. There is also a quest where a mother is looking for her child or something, and if you decide to resolve it by basically saying "good luck, I am sure you'll find her," instead of actively helping her, Kreia is very pleased that you let her solve her own problems.</quote> The problem with her philosophy is that it's nihilistic and pessimistic to an absurd degree and fails to back up it's own statements. Using that cutscene as an example, if you don't give the guy money, he instead goes off and mugs some other people. So if you give him money he gets mugged, but if you don't give him money he mugs other people. As such there is no 'right' choice to make and the 'only' solution is to be an apathetic, self-interested, jerk because any time you try to do anything else it will amount to nothing. Except this flies in the fact of the games very structure where your choices DO have a major impact for good or evil and you DO actively improve the lives of others you meet and work with through your own actions and choices. In other words, Kreia's philosophy is utterly bleak, forced, and self-interested and doesn't back itself up in the slightest in a game where the whole point is the exact opposite. You don't even get some statistical advantage by being 'grey' as the best powers are behind the extremes. Meaning your best bet is to effectively tell her to shove it and act like a hero/jerk. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Revelation34 12/12/21 9:57:45 AM #37:	ParanoidObsessive posted... The Empire can't even keep the Dominion out of Cyrodiil! Plus, they don't seem to be keeping them out of Skyrim either, considering how many Thalmor I've had to stab in the face. Yeah that sucked about Skyrim. You had to join the Empire which supported the Thalmor since the only other path was the racist path. I feel like the story was just unfinished since there should have been a third route letting you become the ruler of Skyrim. This is only spoilers to certain people with something stuck up their ass. adjl posted... I tried doing a Renegade run after beating it as Paragon and quickly lost interest in the game because it just wasn't fun to be a dick for no reason like that. It can sometimes be entertaining to not be the good guy, but so much of that was just like "Hello! How are you?" "Eat shit and die.", which is so absurdly exaggerated that it's just kinda dumb. The problem with any game like that is that they either have a good path of an extremely evil path. I wish I could find one with more balanced choices. adjl posted... I wouldn't know. I've actually still only ever played the first ME. It was entertaining enough, and I've meant to get 2 ever since I finished it, but I've just never gotten around to it. Just skip 3 if you do play 2. Zikten posted... Depends on the npc. I can only think of one specific time where I can say I couldn't bring myself to be mean. In Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines. There is a quest where you deal with a breach of the Masquerade. Someone leaked knowledge of vampire society to a mortal You have a choice in how to deal with it but the first time around, I told the npc they had violated Kindred law, but I didn't intend it to as far as it did. My guy took that choice to mean "let's execute!" The NPC started begging for their life and I was forced into combat. After the NPC was dead I decided reload from before I talked to them, and let them go free The voice actor for the NPC when begging for mercy, is way too good. It was horrible to hear their terror and desperation. I felt like a monster Sounds like he would deserve it since humans would just want to kill all the vampires. --- Gamertag: Kegfarms, BF code: 2033480226, Treasure Cruise code 318,374,355, Steam: Kegfarms <cite>Revelation34 posted [p:960845734] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote>ParanoidObsessive posted...</cite> <quote> The Empire can't even keep the Dominion out of Cyrodiil! Plus, they don't seem to be keeping them out of Skyrim either, considering how many Thalmor I've had to stab in the face.</quote> Yeah that sucked about Skyrim. You had to join the Empire which supported the Thalmor since the only other path was the racist path. I feel like the story was just unfinished since there should have been a third route letting you become the ruler of Skyrim. This is only spoilers to certain people with something stuck up their ass. adjl posted...</cite> <quote> I tried doing a Renegade run after beating it as Paragon and quickly lost interest in the game because it just wasn't fun to be a dick for no reason like that. It can sometimes be entertaining to not be the good guy, but so much of that was just like "Hello! How are you?" "Eat shit and die.", which is so absurdly exaggerated that it's just kinda dumb. </quote> The problem with any game like that is that they either have a good path of an extremely evil path. I wish I could find one with more balanced choices. adjl posted...</cite> <quote>I wouldn't know. I've actually still only ever played the first ME. It was entertaining enough, and I've meant to get 2 ever since I finished it, but I've just never gotten around to it.</quote> Just skip 3 if you do play 2. Zikten posted...</cite> <quote>Depends on the npc. I can only think of one specific time where I can say I couldn't bring myself to be mean. In Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines. There is a quest where you deal with a breach of the Masquerade. Someone leaked knowledge of vampire society to a mortal You have a choice in how to deal with it but the first time around, I told the npc they had violated Kindred law, but I didn't intend it to as far as it did. My guy took that choice to mean "let's execute!" The NPC started begging for their life and I was forced into combat. After the NPC was dead I decided reload from before I talked to them, and let them go free The voice actor for the NPC when begging for mercy, is way too good. It was horrible to hear their terror and desperation. I felt like a monster</quote> Sounds like he would deserve it since humans would just want to kill all the vampires.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
adjl 12/12/21 10:30:42 AM #38:	The_tall_midget posted... Pretty much. I just want companies to realize that a "evil" option does not necessarily means that your character HAS to be an asshole to everyone. You can have a villain that is a nice person to most people, but is so dangerously pragmatic that his ability to empathize goes out the window the moment that the ends justifies the means. Tactics Ogre let us cling together actually does a good job of putting your character in a situation where he HAS to a villain to succeed no matter what; the circumstances in which his country is in basically forces him to. He's not a bad person, per se, but just being nice would never get the job done. Exactly. So often, morality systems boil down to a series of "Save puppy to be good, kick puppy to be evil, alternate between saving puppy and kicking puppy to be neutral," which is just dumb. Role-playing "evil" in a less restrictive context generally just means putting self-interest above that of NPC's, or caring less about how many people get hurt by your decisions. That can be interesting, but very few video games manage to properly capture that. In a way, actually, games without formal morality systems do that better than those with. Games like Elder Scrolls give you the option of simply deciding to murder people instead of trying to work around them to get things done, but rather than trying to have a broader impact on your overall "alignment," you see consequences attached (directly or indirectly) to that choice that affect your game experience moving forward. --- This is my signature. It exists to keep people from skipping the last line of my posts. <cite>adjl posted [p:960846336] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote>The_tall_midget posted... </cite> <quote>Pretty much. I just want companies to realize that a "evil" option does not necessarily means that your character HAS to be an asshole to everyone. You can have a villain that is a nice person to most people, but is so dangerously pragmatic that his ability to empathize goes out the window the moment that the ends justifies the means. Tactics Ogre let us cling together actually does a good job of putting your character in a situation where he HAS to a villain to succeed no matter what; the circumstances in which his country is in basically forces him to. He's not a bad person, per se, but just being nice would never get the job done.</quote> Exactly. So often, morality systems boil down to a series of "Save puppy to be good, kick puppy to be evil, alternate between saving puppy and kicking puppy to be neutral," which is just dumb. Role-playing "evil" in a less restrictive context generally just means putting self-interest above that of NPC's, or caring less about how many people get hurt by your decisions. That can be interesting, but very few video games manage to properly capture that. In a way, actually, games without formal morality systems do that better than those with. Games like Elder Scrolls give you the option of simply deciding to murder people instead of trying to work around them to get things done, but rather than trying to have a broader impact on your overall "alignment," you see consequences attached (directly or indirectly) to that choice that affect your game experience moving forward. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
wwinterj25 12/12/21 2:04:56 PM #39:	Sure. Witcher 3 with romance options. I refused to cheat on my first playthrough. --- One who knows nothing can understand nothing. http://psnprofiles.com/wwinterj <cite>wwinterj25 posted [p:960851386] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote>Sure. Witcher 3 with romance options. I refused to cheat on my first playthrough. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ParanoidObsessive 12/12/21 5:04:07 PM #40:	UltraIchi posted... Gta I actually try to go out of my way to avoid hitting pedestrians or otherwise limit collateral damage when I'm playing GTA or Saints Row. Not so much that I'm overly careful all the time (especially during timed missions, I'm a lot more lax about who might get taken out in the crossfire), but I also don't just indiscriminately murder civilians for no reason, either. Unbridled9 posted... As such there is no 'right' choice to make and the 'only' solution is to be an apathetic, self-interested, jerk because any time you try to do anything else it will amount to nothing. There technically is a right choice, though. What she's trying to explain to you is that what you should be doing is either encouraging people to solve their own problems, thus allowing them to become stronger, or to deliberately solve their problems to make them weak on purpose (and to strengthen yourself). Basically, conflict breeds strength, so if you help everyone with their problems you're not really helping them, you're just making them weaker, and more likely to have problems again later. Arguably, you could look at it is as a similar philosophy to "Give a man a fish/Teach a man to fish". She's telling you that if you really want to help people, you should stop giving all these people fish and teach them to fish for themselves. This actually comes into play later on Nar Shadaa - when the dude is talking about his wife who's missing (she's trapped in the Refugee section), you can actually encourage him to be "stronger" in a way that Kreia absolutely approves of, but which still results in the two of them getting back together. Unbridled9 posted... You don't even get some statistical advantage by being 'grey' as the best powers are behind the extremes. Meaning your best bet is to effectively tell her to shove it and act like a hero/jerk. Nah, you're kind of missing the point of her philosophy. Looking for a statistical advantage is literally relying on the Force. Because that's what the Light Side/Dark Side bonuses represent. And her entire philosophy is that people shouldn't rely on the Force. Because it's a callous, manipulative thing that controls everyone. To truly be free, you need to reject the Force entirely. It's why she's with you in the first place - you're the only one who's ever been able to reject the Force and survive. You're basically the only hope she sees for the future - a galaxy where the Force can die but life can continue without it, free to thrive without an invisible master pulling all the strings. Essentially, if you develop your skills (something else she encourages you to do), you shouldn't need the stat bonus from being full Light Side or Dark Side. So actively rejecting the temptation is strength, but allowing the Force to shape your behavior so you can benefit from it is weakness. It's also why Sion and Nihilus exist - they're examples. Sion is showing you what blind reliance on the Force leads to. Nihilus is what you could have become (and technically may still) due to rejecting the Force but still being unable to fully let it go. You need to learn from both, transcend both. Arguably the real weakness of the game is that Kreia's philosophy isn't represented in game mechanics more effectively or more often, but we could say the same about lots of things (like how you can only really be a thug Sith, not a cunning or manipulative one, which is arguably better in every way). It also doesn't really help that, canonically, ~~you rebuild the Jedi Order by recovering the "Lost Jedi" and training them, which leads them to refound the order that eventually grows into the order as we see it in the movies~~, so they can't really tell the story of you learning Kreia's lessons, coming to agree with her philosophy, and trying to murder the Force. Because the future universe doesn't reflect that outcome. --- "Wall of Text'D!" --- oldskoolplayr76 "POwned again." --- blight family <cite>ParanoidObsessive posted [p:960856291] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote><cite>UltraIchi posted...</cite> <quote>Gta</quote> I actually try to go out of my way to avoid hitting pedestrians or otherwise limit collateral damage when I'm playing GTA or Saints Row. Not so much that I'm overly careful all the time (especially during timed missions, I'm a lot more lax about who might get taken out in the crossfire), but I also don't just indiscriminately murder civilians for no reason, either. <cite>Unbridled9 posted...</cite> <quote>As such there is no 'right' choice to make and the 'only' solution is to be an apathetic, self-interested, jerk because any time you try to do anything else it will amount to nothing.</quote> There technically is a right choice, though. What she's trying to explain to you is that what you should be doing is either encouraging people to solve their own problems, thus allowing them to become stronger, or to deliberately solve their problems to make them weak on purpose (and to strengthen yourself). Basically, conflict breeds strength, so if you help everyone with their problems you're not really helping them, you're just making them weaker, and more likely to have problems again later. Arguably, you could look at it is as a similar philosophy to "Give a man a fish/Teach a man to fish". She's telling you that if you really want to help people, you should stop giving all these people fish and teach them to fish for themselves. This actually comes into play later on Nar Shadaa - when the dude is talking about his wife who's missing (she's trapped in the Refugee section), you can actually encourage him to be "stronger" in a way that Kreia absolutely approves of, but which still results in the two of them getting back together. <cite>Unbridled9 posted...</cite> <quote>You don't even get some statistical advantage by being 'grey' as the best powers are behind the extremes. Meaning your best bet is to effectively tell her to shove it and act like a hero/jerk.</quote> Nah, you're kind of missing the point of her philosophy. Looking for a statistical advantage is literally relying on the Force. Because that's what the Light Side/Dark Side bonuses represent. And her entire philosophy is that people shouldn't rely on the Force. Because it's a callous, manipulative thing that controls everyone. To truly be free, you need to reject the Force entirely. It's why she's with you in the first place - you're the only one who's ever been able to reject the Force and survive. You're basically the only hope she sees for the future - a galaxy where the Force can die but life can continue without it, free to thrive without an invisible master pulling all the strings. Essentially, if you develop your skills (something else she encourages you to do), you shouldn't need the stat bonus from being full Light Side or Dark Side. So actively rejecting the temptation is strength, but allowing the Force to shape your behavior so you can benefit from it is weakness. It's also why Sion and Nihilus exist - they're examples. Sion is showing you what blind reliance on the Force leads to. Nihilus is what you could have become (and technically may still) due to rejecting the Force but still being unable to fully let it go. You need to learn from both, transcend both. Arguably the real weakness of the game is that Kreia's philosophy isn't represented in game mechanics more effectively or more often, but we could say the same about lots of things (like how you can only really be a thug Sith, not a cunning or manipulative one, which is arguably better in every way). It also doesn't really help that, canonically, you rebuild the Jedi Order by recovering the "Lost Jedi" and training them, which leads them to refound the order that eventually grows into the order as we see it in the movies, so they can't really tell the story of you learning Kreia's lessons, coming to agree with her philosophy, and trying to murder the Force. Because the future universe doesn't reflect that outcome.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ParanoidObsessive 12/12/21 5:34:49 PM #41:	Revelation34 posted... You had to ~~join the Empire which supported the Thalmor since the only other path was the racist path.~~ I literally never join the Empire (except for once, just for completionist sake). Even aside from the fact that they try to randomly kill you just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time almost from the moment you start playing, once you start to know anything about the backstory, they get even worse. The Imperials are pretty much the entire reason the Empire loses the war with the Dominion (the war was being won everywhere else, but Cyrodiil collapsed and the Empire panicked), they straight up sold out the Redguard (so why would you ever trust them to actually support Skyrim or the Nords?), and giving in to the Thalmor demand to outlaw Talos worship isn't just a question of "religious freedom", it's literally destroying the universe (which is the entire reason the Thalmor want to do it in the first place). And it's not as if the Imperials aren't racist - about half of Tullius' dialogue comes across like he hates Nords, and the Empire was founded through conquest and force, not peace love and understanding. The Imperials are as self-interested as anyone else, they're just better at lying about it (hence their racial power). Also, the Stormcloaks aren't nearly as racist as people make them out to be. The "Skyrim is for the Nords" philosophy isn't all that much more radical than most of the other races tend to be about their own homelands. Skyrim's history is almost entirely comprised of stories where the Nords are fighting against elves, so it's kind of understandable that they'd be at least somewhat down on them. Are you mad because they treat Khajiit like criminals? Well, nearly every Khajiit you meet is a criminal (~~or a secret Thalmor agent~~) - most of the caravan Khajiit will tell you they were criminals in their homeland and left to get away, and the merchants sell Skooma and become fences for the Thieves' Guild when you do that questline. Mad that they treat the Dark Elves like refugees? Most of the Dunmer in Windhelm are refugees - the poor, less capable masses escaping their homeland (and the more capable, more skilled Dunmer tend to move farther into Skyrim, where they become bandits or other antagonists). Mad because Nords tend to dislike Altmer? They literally just fought a war against them, and are still opposed to their continuing manipulation (and the Thalmor are wandering around Skyrim torturing and murdering people). Racist against Imperials? Well, the Imperials are currently trying to beat all dissent and Talos worship out of the population at the whim of the Dominion, so there's not much to respect there (and even so, Ulfric still respects Tullius even if it doesn't stop him from wanting to kill him). To top it off, it's not as if you being one of those races stops them from happily recruiting you into their ranks and accepting your help in freeing Skyrim from the Empire. It doesn't even stop you from entering cities (if you're Khajiit), or being treated relatively well by most citizens of Skyrim (even the ones who strongly support the Stormcloaks). Maybe the real problem is, like Niranye in Windhelm suggests, that the people who get pissed about Nord racism are being "too proud and naive", and don't really make much of an effort to overcome it (the way she did). If anything, from a narrative perspective, the best way for you to fight against what you see as the racism of the Stormcloaks might be to join them - becoming the heroic champion who helps them free Skyrim would probably go a looong way towards showing the Nords that your kin aren't all that bad. Even as an Altmer, you're showing them that not all High Elves are Thalmor or support the Dominion. That not all Khajiit are worthless criminals. That not all Dark Elves are shiftless vagabonds. That not all Imperials support the self-destructive policies of a weak and dying Empire. As is, the Nords in general and Stormcloaks specifically don't have many reasons NOT to think the worst of all the other races. --- "Wall of Text'D!" --- oldskoolplayr76 "POwned again." --- blight family <cite>ParanoidObsessive posted [p:960857084] in Have you e... [t:79805614]...</cite> <quote><cite>Revelation34 posted...</cite> <quote>You had to join the Empire which supported the Thalmor since the only other path was the racist path.</quote> I literally never join the Empire (except for once, just for completionist sake). Even aside from the fact that they try to randomly kill you just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time almost from the moment you start playing, once you start to know anything about the backstory, they get even worse. The Imperials are pretty much the entire reason the Empire loses the war with the Dominion (the war was being won everywhere else, but Cyrodiil collapsed and the Empire panicked), they straight up sold out the Redguard (so why would you ever trust them to actually support Skyrim or the Nords?), and giving in to the Thalmor demand to outlaw Talos worship isn't just a question of "religious freedom", it's literally destroying the universe (which is the entire reason the Thalmor want to do it in the first place). And it's not as if the Imperials aren't racist - about half of Tullius' dialogue comes across like he hates Nords, and the Empire was founded through conquest and force, not peace love and understanding. The Imperials are as self-interested as anyone else, they're just better at lying about it (hence their racial power). Also, the Stormcloaks aren't nearly as racist as people make them out to be. The "Skyrim is for the Nords" philosophy isn't all that much more radical than most of the other races tend to be about their own homelands. Skyrim's history is almost entirely comprised of stories where the Nords are fighting against elves, so it's kind of understandable that they'd be at least somewhat down on them. Are you mad because they treat Khajiit like criminals? Well, nearly every Khajiit you meet is a criminal (or a secret Thalmor agent) - most of the caravan Khajiit will tell you they were criminals in their homeland and left to get away, and the merchants sell Skooma and become fences for the Thieves' Guild when you do that questline. Mad that they treat the Dark Elves like refugees? Most of the Dunmer in Windhelm are refugees - the poor, less capable masses escaping their homeland (and the more capable, more skilled Dunmer tend to move farther into Skyrim, where they become bandits or other antagonists). Mad because Nords tend to dislike Altmer? They literally just fought a war against them, and are still opposed to their continuing manipulation (and the Thalmor are wandering around Skyrim torturing and murdering people). Racist against Imperials? Well, the Imperials are currently trying to beat all dissent and Talos worship out of the population at the whim of the Dominion, so there's not much to respect there (and even so, Ulfric still respects Tullius even if it doesn't stop him from wanting to kill him). To top it off, it's not as if you being one of those races stops them from happily recruiting you into their ranks and accepting your help in freeing Skyrim from the Empire. It doesn't even stop you from entering cities (if you're Khajiit), or being treated relatively well by most citizens of Skyrim (even the ones who strongly support the Stormcloaks). Maybe the real problem is, like Niranye in Windhelm suggests, that the people who get pissed about Nord racism are being "too proud and naive", and don't really make much of an effort to overcome it (the way she did). If anything, from a narrative perspective, the best way for you to fight against what you see as the racism of the Stormcloaks might be to join them - becoming the heroic champion who helps them free Skyrim would probably go a looong way towards showing the Nords that your kin aren't all that bad. Even as an Altmer, you're showing them that not all High Elves are Thalmor or support the Dominion. That not all Khajiit are worthless criminals. That not all Dark Elves are shiftless vagabonds. That not all Imperials support the self-destructive policies of a weak and dying Empire. As is, the Nords in general and Stormcloaks specifically don't have many reasons NOT to think the worst of all the other races.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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