Poll of the Day > Public education is about to really go down the toilet

(+) Yeah! (+)

Massive shortages are causing schools to start closing.

Our school just announced that because they cannot find substitutes, so when a teacher calls in sick those students will have to stay home (like a snow day).

Sounds like it isn't just us, but a national issue.

I give the public education system another 3-4 years unless they dramatically increase they pay or find a way to make teaching a desirable profession again.

Considering that there's always a glut of educators, I find this claim hard to believe.

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I know we have some teachers on PotD, I'm curious what their opinion on this is.
All I know is that the one teacher I do follow for content, he just straight up left teaching and is now producing stuff full time.

Zeus posted...

Considering that there's always a glut of educators, I find this claim hard to believe.

Hey zeus, where ya getting that idea from? Do you work in the education field? Do you look up these sorts of things in your off time?

Its almost like we need to actually fund education as a nation and not have schools be primarily paid for by property taxes which just increases inequality

we need to get back to seeing education as more than just something to learn a trade or get a job, its also about just broadening kids into well rounded individuals that can think critically for themselves

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shadowsword87 posted...

I know we have some teachers on PotD, I'm curious what their opinion on this is.
All I know is that the one teacher I do follow for content, he just straight up left teaching and is now producing stuff full time.

Hey zeus, where ya getting that idea from? Do you work in the education field? Do you look up these sorts of things in your off time?

The teacher shortage is real. In our state, they are asking anyone with a certificate (expired or active) to teach. I've been asked to come back twice in the last three months. I don't know why they think I would - it starts at 1/2 what I make now.

Kids and their parents are fucking awful nowadays and teachers cant do anything about it. Who would want that job

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11110111011 posted...

I give the public education system another 3-4 years unless they dramatically increase they pay or find a way to make teaching a desirable profession again.

Since when has the education system being bad convinced the government to make it better.

They'll lower the requirements for becoming a teacher before they'll make being a public school teacher a wealthy profession.

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shadowsword87 posted...

Hey zeus, where ya getting that idea from? Do you work in the education field? Do you look up these sorts of things in your off time?

From the fact I've known many people who tried to go into education within the past decade but couldn't find jobs so they went into other things, and before that a few people who wound up teaching overseas because they couldn't find jobs teaching in the US. Not to mention the countless people I met in the years before that who, again, couldn't find jobs so they went into other fields. This includes people who struggled to find teaching work in the few years (who finally had luck). And, you know, having friends and relatives who either still teach or recently left teaching.

Unless this is something that literally just happened in the past year. However, there's usually a lot of people who wanted to get in who couldn't that it's hard to imagine they'd ever really be short.

Same for education at the college level.

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You can do a simple Google search and see that there's a nationwide teacher shortage.
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Zeus cant lie if he posts factual information. And he really wants to tell lies.

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ForteEXE3850 posted...

Since when has the education system being bad convinced the government to make it better.

2016 should have woken everyone up who wasnt paying attention. And its just been getting worse from there.

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Strong public education is generally against the interests of democratically elected governments. They want it as cheap and as shitty as possible to meet the economic aspects that public education satisfies while ignoring the social aspects.

Given that strong public education system is absolutely vital for a functioning nation, it is vital for teachers to have a large and powerful union/professional organization to put pressure on governments to continuously improve the system.


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It would be so much nicer to be in a country of learned peoples

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11110111011 posted...

Massive shortages are causing schools to start closing.

I give the public education system another 3-4 years unless they dramatically increase they pay or find a way to make teaching a desirable profession again.

One of my best friends is a teacher. They are so desperate to find teachers that he decided he would only work by contracts instead of being hired full time by a school. With Covid, there has been a lot of changes in how classes are taught and the old guard basically said "fuck this," thus many people went for their retirement. He basically gets to pick when or where he goes to work. Lots of mileage, but he's laughing all the way to the bank.

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It's absolutely embarrassing what they pay teachers. When you also add the time they spend on lesson planning and grading, responding to emails, going to meetings, etc, their hourly wage barely matches what you can make at just working retail. And then of course you're also dealing with the tik tok generation, and students who are doing these stupid assault and vandalism challenges. Also, throw Covid into the mix. It's just not worth it anymore.

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I always thought about teaching math since I like it. But I wouldnt want to deal with kids or teenagers all day like at all So, I might consider tutoring after I move. Then its a much shorter amount of time, and I can still help
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teachers are refusing to go back, that's why
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ForteEXE3850 posted...

Since when has the education system being bad convinced the government to make it better.

They'll lower the requirements for becoming a teacher before they'll make being a public school teacher a wealthy profession.

Honestly - no joke - you can make nearly as much (within $2/hour) working at McDonalds as your first year teaching in my school district right now.

Zeus posted...

From the fact I've known many people who tried to go into education within the past decade but couldn't find jobs so they went into other things, and before that a few people who wound up teaching overseas because they couldn't find jobs teaching in the US. Not to mention the countless people I met in the years before that who, again, couldn't find jobs so they went into other fields. This includes people who struggled to find teaching work in the few years (who finally had luck). And, you know, having friends and relatives who either still teach or recently left teaching.

Unless this is something that literally just happened in the past year. However, there's usually a lot of people who wanted to get in who couldn't that it's hard to imagine they'd ever really be short.

Same for education at the college level.

This was true 5-10 years ago (and some before that). There was an "expected" teacher shortage because many people were going to be of retirement age. Many didn't retire because of the crash in 2008/2009 compounded with step freezes (meaning no raises), and if you went to school to be a teacher it was really, really difficult to find a job unless you had a couple of specific subject areas (math, for example). Even if you did find a job, you were often locked in at the starting pay because of a pay freeze in the 00's and 10's.

When Covid hit - most of those who didn't retire finally said screw it and retired. Additionally, those who were lucky enough to start teaching in the late 90's/early 2000's "bought" years toward retirement. Many of them are now eligible or close (my wife can retire in about 4 years) and they are saying screw it as well. Anyone with 25 years of experience is gone, and those within striking distance will be gone in the next few months/years.

Most schools lost their most experienced teachers. This has compounded the employment issue because many substitute teachers are retired teachers - and they aren't coming back to do that anymore (who can blame them?)

There is zero incentive to go into teaching anymore. Nearly every school you can get a teaching degree at costs as much per year as what you would make in your first year of teaching. That puts you 4 years in the hole from the start. Your experience doesn't transfer - if you move to a new district you start all over at step 1 pay. The benefits used to be worth it - but now are largely gone. There used to be a pension - there isn't any more. You would have to be insane to go into education at this point in time. It is an upside-down profession.

Implying it wasn't already there.

Public education has always been bad because sadly it was used as a barrier to separate people which is why there are magnet schools, home schooling etc.

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Bruh half the country thinks vaccines are more dangerous than the diseases they protect against. Public education failed decades ago.

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Zeus posted...

Considering that there's always a glut of educators, I find this claim hard to believe.

Teaching's kind of an awkward field, honestly.

What generally happens is that there IS a glut of teachers... but then a lot of those teachers can't find jobs, which discourages people from following education tracks in school. Which means you eventually wind up with a period of time when there's definitely not enough teachers.

Then schools loosen up requirements, start offering higher salaries, and generally try to attract people to the field. Which results in a new push for education tracks in college, which fills the deficit... but then winds up turning into another glut, which then starts the whole cycle over again.

I know a couple people who tried to get into teaching and basically got fucked because they had the bad luck to be coming out of school at the wrong time. I also know a couple people who fast-tracked directly into teaching because they were lucky enough to hit the job market at the precise time when there was a desperate need.

The problem right now though is that the pandemic, people not wanting to associate in large groups, and vaccine-related issues are making it hard for a LOT of businesses (not just education) to get people in to do the jobs. Because people don't want to risk their health for shit jobs that have shit pay any more (and in some parts of the country, teaching is absolutely a shit job with shit pay).

It's not so much an issue where we live (I know NJ has a ridiculously powerful teachers' union and they get paid pretty close to the top across the board, and I think Connecticut is pretty similar), but there are definitely places where I wouldn't be going in to work if I were a teacher either. Especially if I were an older teacher.
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Krazy_Kirby posted...

teachers are refusing to go back, that's why

who can blame them

who wants to be abused by students, parents, and administrators for shit pay and no recourse to mistreatment

have you ever actually had to deal with public school administrators? Im sure theyre a diverse bunch but Ive encountered some in my life that were vile and petty individuals that shouldnt be in any position of authority.

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I've worked in public and private education. The way teaching occurs in both systems is irreparable. We still ask students to learn the same way people learned pre-internet, which makes absolutely no sense. Older teachers pushed to remove technology from the classrooms, causing an entire generation of students to have unlimited access to technology and have no idea how to use it. General apathy of students coupled with all the Covid-related excuses from parents and administrators have lead to an inability to actually require students to not only fail to meet arbitrary "standard" set by non-educators, but also breed any sort of motivation with an entire generation of kids. Teachers who do go above and beyond to push through these issues are paid the same as their counterparts who do the bare minimum, leading them to either give up and collect a paycheck or leave the field entirely.

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Teachers are paid an embarrassingly low rate. I made more than some entry level teachers working retail while I was in college. Ridiculous that we can't put more value on the people that are supposed to be guiding the next generation.

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InfernalFive posted...

Teachers are paid an embarrassingly low rate. I made more than some entry level teachers working retail while I was in college. Ridiculous that we can't put more value on the people that are supposed to be guiding the next generation.

it really highlights the issue at the root of capitalism. capital is the primary goal in and of itself and no regard is given to what capital represents and what its purpose should be

if greed wasnt the motivator for most people then any intelligent individual would come to the conclusion that education where students are taught how to learn new things and appreciate learning through life would be a great boon to our society. It would likely make our wealthy country even wealthier.

But capitalism doesnt work that way. It relies on greed alone to be the motivator of the masses while the privileged and corrupt siphon all the capital of taxpayers.

we gotta throw out a lot of this old bureaucratic ideology and reshape our country into something that actually works

by the people and for the people

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About to?!! This country already has the general education levels of a third world country. Shit, I know people who are trying to be Teachers and they have a cursory education at best, barely able to read most elementry level words.

Mead posted...

have you ever actually had to deal with public school administrators? Im sure theyre a diverse bunch but Ive encountered some in my life that were vile and petty individuals that shouldnt be in any position of authority.

The trick there is that a lot of administrators start out as gym teachers. Because normal teachers have to grade papers, work on lesson plans, and a lot of other prep work that takes up a lot of their free time. But gym teachers have much more time to take night classes, pursue more advanced degrees, and essentially earn the qualifications necessary for administration over education.

And a lot of gym teachers are basically just bitter old ex-jocks who grew up with the hopes of turning pro, and then blew out a knee or tore a shoulder and had all of their dreams shattered overnight, and they wound up diverting into phys ed. as a desperate back-up plan.
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ParanoidObsessive posted...

The trick there is that a lot of administrators start out as gym teachers. Because normal teachers have to grade papers, work on lesson plans, and a lot of other prep work that takes up a lot of their free time. But gym teachers have much more time to take night classes, pursue more advanced degrees, and essentially earn the qualifications necessary for administration over education.

And a lot of gym teachers are basically just bitter old ex-jocks who grew up with the hopes of turning pro, and then blew out a knee or tore a shoulder and had all of their dreams shattered overnight, and they wound up diverting into phys ed. as a desperate back-up plan.

it hurts how right this seems

theyre just jocks and cheerleaders jfc

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ParanoidObsessive posted...

The trick there is that a lot of administrators start out as gym teachers. Because normal teachers have to grade papers, work on lesson plans, and a lot of other prep work that takes up a lot of their free time. But gym teachers have much more time to take night classes, pursue more advanced degrees, and essentially earn the qualifications necessary for administration over education.

And a lot of gym teachers are basically just bitter old ex-jocks who grew up with the hopes of turning pro, and then blew out a knee or tore a shoulder and had all of their dreams shattered overnight, and they wound up diverting into phys ed. as a desperate back-up plan.

This is actually very accurate.

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