Board 8 > FFXIV Topic 9 -- To The End(Walker)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Didn't you just say you skip cutscenes? <_<

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Didn't you just say you skip cutscenes? <_<

and why do you think i do lol. because i don't like most of the characters.

Dels posted...

wow, i hate all 3 of them!

What the hell lol

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Dels posted...

and why do you think i do lol. because i don't like most of the characters.

I mean...how can you know...?

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

I mean...how can you know...?

because i skip now after playing through multiple expansions lol

Xiahou Shake posted...

Not certain I'll finish the remaining bits before EW launch especially factoring in the remaining trials, last raid tier and last two Nier raids, but this is close enough that I can be happy with it, I think.

Your timing is probably good, since it means you won't have to grind for equipment to finish the last raids and story bits. <_<
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Well, to each their own!

Can't really say I get it, personally.

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mostly i just have such terrible memories of the ARR story that i just could never get fully invested in the game's plot or characters, even though it admittedly improved in the expansions. i started skipping around level 30 or so back in the day after trying to watch scene and it just got so unbearable.

i came back years later and played post-ARR and the expansions for real but i could never get past the associations with how bad ARR was.

i actually like most of the characters that debut post-ARR. lyse is the best.

i got through three expansions and it wasn't terrible but i started skipping again during post-ShB because i just find all the "let's sit around and talk for 30 minutes about why aether works the way it does and let's go into this tomb and learn the history of these ancient people" so boring. i hate history lessons. also the game has too many villains whose story is "we are evil and we want to destroy the world / we just want to kill you because fighting is fun"

oh and that last bit applies to heroes too, characters whose entire personality and development is "i'm a really good person! i'm so noble! i love everyone! i just want to do good and help the world! sometimes i get sad because i can't help enough and because the villains are evil :( but yay friendship!" which is what both aymeric and graha tia fall into

like their level of depth is being at a job interview being asked what your greatest weakness is and all they can answer is "sometimes i'm just SUCH a good person that i self-sacrifice too much"

i like characters like ardbert or emet selch way more because they're not just, whatever the equivalent of a male mary sue is

Jesus Christ I've never seen someone so wrong before in my life

Dels you missed a lot bud

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Oooooof.

But I mean yeah like I said, as long as you're enjoying yourself.

The story and characters are the reason this game is good for me, and why it's the best FF game. Wouldn't even be playing it without that.

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y'all don't have any pieces of media that you just absolutely despise and can't stop talking about how much you hate them?

well, i like everything else about the game. it's too bad there's this one part of it that i hate.

Dels posted...

y'all don't have any pieces of media that you just absolutely despise and can't stop talking about how much you hate them?

Sure! FFXV is an absolutely worthless product that is a failure in literally ever feasible aspect. I LOVE talking about what an irredeemable piece of shit that game is.

I just don't see what the game really has to offer if you hate the story. Obviously I love plenty of the gameplay bits, but that's heavily the result of context and narrative around it. If this game was just a bunch of loreless set pieces you selected from a menu with no setup or background...it's be like...a 5/10?

Still better than XV.

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didn't expect to see the "superman is boring" argument relitigated in the FF14 topic

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Sure! FFXV is an absolutely worthless product that is a failure in literally ever feasible aspect. I LOVE talking about what an irredeemable piece of shit that game is.

I just don't see what the game really has to offer if you hate the story. Obviously I love plenty of the gameplay bits, but that's heavily the result of context and narrative around it. If this game was just a bunch of loreless set pieces you selected from a menu with no setup or background...it's be like...a 5/10?

Still better than XV.

i mean i hear this a lot from story-lovers and i consider it basically just as offensive as you consider me saying i hate the story. like, this game is amazing? the areas are beautiful, the battle system is fun, learning how every job plays is super interesting, the boss battles are fantastic, the OST is perfect, and everything is just super polished and stylish. so why say "if it wasn't for the story i wouldn't play it"? feels like that's downplaying all the other stuff.

hell you don't even have story for 3 months at a time usually but i'm assuming you stay subscribed and do things.

and yeah sounds like you understand lol. now imagine if FFXV had all this other stuff you liked, but in order to get to it, you *had* to watch all the cutscenes.

okay granted this doesn't quite fit because i did force myself to watch 3 entire expansions worth but you can't say i didn't give it a chance

though i named multiple parts i liked tbf. if i actually hated HW, SB, or ShB, i would've started skipping much earlier. i think they're mostly alright.

Yeah I'm not sure I could play FF14 without the story being as good as it is. So much of my enjoyment comes out of all the context enhancing those moments and legit elevating them to some of the highest highs I've experienced in the medium.

Like I'd still take the game's gameplay over most MMOs tbf but I can't imagine skipping cutscenes and just excising everything that makes the game so truly special to me.

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All of that stuff is excellent, sure.

But if it weren't for the story then none of that would matter to me. It's irrelevant.

It would be like saying "you should love Call of Duty games because the shooting is good". Like, sure, but who gives a shit?

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I will say it's not that uncommon to play this game for non-story reasons. I've raided with multiple people who were cutscene skippers just in it for the Savage fights. Hell, the first group I joined was almost entirely cutscene skippers.

I mean, I personally think it's weird. But that's because while the raids are good, I personally wouldn't raid if I wasn't already invested in the game.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

All of that stuff is excellent, sure.

But if it weren't for the story then none of that would matter to me. It's irrelevant.

It would be like saying "you should love Call of Duty games because the shooting is good". Like, sure, but who gives a shit?

but people do play call of duty because the shooting is good? lol. people play all sorts of games for gameplay!

i mean i played WoW back in the day too, not as hardcore as this, and it never made you do any forced cutscenes or anything. tons of people did. so the idea of people playing an MMO for the not story stuff doesn't feel very absurd to me.

It's sad that Dels hating the story is getting more response than Shake loving it.

Speaking of bad story though, Sorrow of Werlyt/Weapon story is wayyyy too grimdark. I can't believe there are people who say Zenos is good because FFXIV doesn't have any pure evil villains when this exists...
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well i don't know about LtM but i know some people who are hardcore raiders who say the same thing, "i don't understand why you'd play if you don't like the story", and i'm just like, ????? i see you in raids 40 hours a week i know you're not doing story that whole time!

and i don't quite buy "fighting living liquid for 20 hours is fun because i'm invested in its story" soooo

It's not really something I want to argue about because it's absolutely a matter of personal opinion. If you were like some big YouTuber then sure point in laugh, but if you don't like the story then you don't like the story and that's fine!

I'm coming from this as someone who's favorite genre is visual novels, so obviously my opinion is colored. The two games in front of this one for me are both VNs.

But this is in 3rd because of the story, not because of how much I love running Orbonne Monestary, though obviously that's still a big factor.

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Mac Arrowny posted...

It's sad that Dels hating the story is getting more response than Shake loving it.

this is how the world works >:) hate gets more clicks, that's why clickbait and outrage videos work

besides i think hate is just as valid a feeling as love

Mac Arrowny posted...

Speaking of bad story though, Sorrow of Werlyt/Weapon story is wayyyy too grimdark. I can't believe there are people who say Zenos is good because FFXIV doesn't have any pure evil villains when this exists...

Werlyt is my favorite side story in the entire game by far, lol.

It's dark, sure, but it works.

The last section got me the most out of any non-voiced part of the game, for sure.

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oh i like story games and visual novels as well. i'm a jrpg fan. if you told me, uh, 5 or 6 or whatever years ago that i'd play a game and skip all of its story i'd think you were crazy. this game is very much an exception. though, again, i really only mostly skipped ARR, and uh, i know i'm not alone in that so can you blame me.

Dels posted...

well i don't know about LtM but i know some people who are hardcore raiders who say the same thing, "i don't understand why you'd play if you don't like the story", and i'm just like, ????? i see you in raids 40 hours a week i know you're not doing story that whole time!

and i don't quite buy "fighting living liquid for 20 hours is fun because i'm invested in its story" soooo

These people just seem like they like both! And if not for the story keeping them invested in the game maybe they'd be playing a different game's fight for 20 hours. You have to have the drive TO GET to that point in that game after all.

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also (i'll drop this now lol but) i was chatting with someone in my raid group who does love the story and they were saying they were also disappointed that the latest villain just kind of showed up and said "yeah i'm evil i want to destroy the world hehehe" and so far has not had any other motives revealed.

so ITS NOT JUST ME! just saying!

(yes i'm aware the other ascians in ShB had better motives than that)

UshiromiyaEva posted...

These people just seem like they like both! And if not for the story keeping them invested in the game maybe they'd be playing a different game's fight for 20 hours. You have to have the drive TO GET to that point in that game after all.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Dels posted...

and i don't quite buy "fighting living liquid for 20 hours is fun because i'm invested in its story" soooo

one of my motivating factors to beat TEA was because I think Heavensward and Alexander totally fucking own, and I wanted a shiny alexander weapon for the game I like lol

My personal enjoyment of raiding is affected by the story, I get why that's not the case for everyone, but I wouldn't like this game nearly as much if it was just one of those two halves.

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I mean x.4 patches and on are prologues to the next expansion, wouldn't exactly be great writing if they revealed the full motives of a villain before the expansion for which they're a driving force has even started.

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Lol I always love how there's two camps regarding Zenos

1) Utter annoyance at having to deal with Zenos again

2) Utter delight at getting a rematch with Zenos

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i guess to me its like

its like we teleported to an alternate universe right now where, uh, mega man games had super deep stories and there were 20-minute cutscenes between every level

and i told someone in that world "yeah idk i just like mega man because the level design is good and i like shooting stuff, sick OST too"

and they were like "wow, i can't imagine ever playing mega man if i didn't like the story. like the only reason i'm invested in these levels is because i care so much about mega man and dr. light from the cutscenes before i did the first level"

it is possible to like games for just gameplay! since most genres don't have story focus anyway.

Mac if you happen to have Allegory (or Phantasmagoria from your last time playing which you can turn into Allegory in Mor Dhona) you can buy 490 pieces too.

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Shadow Dino posted...

Lol I always love how there's two camps regarding Zenos

1) Utter annoyance at having to deal with Zenos again

2) Utter delight at getting a rematch with Zenos

i would say this game's penchant for having characters die, often in a huge climax, and then just revive off-screen, iiiiiis kind of a weak point. i think others would agree with even me on that >_>

I used to be middle of the road on the Juicy Boy post StB (loved him during), but the more I rewatch his scenes vicariously through Twitch streamers as the months have gone by the more I fall back in love.

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Dels posted...

i guess to me its like

its like we teleported to an alternate universe right now where, uh, mega man games had super deep stories and there were 20-minute cutscenes between every level

and i told someone in that world "yeah idk i just like mega man because the level design is good and i like shooting stuff, sick OST too"

and they were like "wow, i can't imagine ever playing mega man if i didn't like the story. like the only reason i'm invested in these levels is because i care so much about mega man and dr. light from the cutscenes before i did the first level"

it is possible to like games for just gameplay! since most genres don't have story focus anyway.

We don't have to go outside the universe, though. This is more like saying you love FFVII but skipped all the cutscenes. Like yeah, it's not impossible to think that, but it's just hard to understand. I don't consider the gameplay of XIV to be better than that of any other decent jRPG, it just different and asks different things of you.

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SMTV is the most recent example. That game BARELY has a story, and I love playing it. But if it was the exact same game with LITERALLY no story, but everything else was identical...it would be a big pile of shit! No way I would play it.

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juicy boy and fannish daniel both suck individually but their odd couple routine is immensely entertaining to me in a way that makes me appreciate them as antagonists

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Fanny Pack is a fucking treat.

He was always a hoot, but as soon as he busted out the finger pointing on the roof I knew we had gold.

Kokichi Ouma energy.

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Fan "Emet Who?" Daniel

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Fanta Dankata

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

We don't have to go outside the universe, though. This is more like saying you love FFVII but skipped all the cutscenes. Like yeah, it's not impossible to think that, but it's just hard to understand. I don't consider the gameplay of XIV to be better than that of any other decent jRPG, it just different and asks different things of you.

well, that's true. i do consider JRPGs to be a genre where you're generally only playing because you like the story. if someone said they were skipping the story in ff7 i'd find that weird.

though i might find it less weird if it was ff7r, i haven't played it but the combat system seems more dynamic. (edit: actually no i'd still find it weird probably. i'd find it weird for any single player JRPG, yeah)

like, idk if it's a nostalgia thing or whatever, but i'm definitely less likely to play a jrpg with random turn-based encounters these days unless the battles are fun in their own way.

which i'd say the gameplay in this game is. better than turn-based menu-based battle system. with, again, my evidence being that the game is inspired by WoW and other MMOs which people play for non-story reasons

UshiromiyaEva posted...

SMTV is the most recent example. That game BARELY has a story, and I love playing it. But if it was the exact same game with LITERALLY no story, but everything else was identical...it would be a big pile of shit! No way I would play it.

Well, people play stuff like Etrian Odyssey for example, right? That's another vaguely "we don't have to imagine" example because it's... basically an RPG, isn't it?

But it gets by because the battle system is complex enough that it's fun on its own. Maybe like SMTV, idk I haven't played mainline SMT much.

ChadDaniel vs. Virgin-Selch

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Ah, so the real FFXIV fans think Fandaniel is better than Emet-Selch? Guess it's a good thing I don't consider myself a megafan.
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Ganon is epic meming

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Don't let our meming leave the wrong impression Mac, lol.

Fandaniel is great because he's dumb as hell.

I consider Emmet-Selch to be the best villain jRPGs.

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Dels posted...

Well, people play stuff like Etrian Odyssey for example, right? That's another vaguely "we don't have to imagine" example because it's... basically an RPG, isn't it?

This is why it's a fruitless argument and can't be painted in broad strokes, as much as I've thrown my own fuel on the fire even against my own recommendation.

Because yeah...I think those Etrian Oddesey games are terrible. They're just boring, empty dungeon crawling with no real drive to me. I don't get them at all!

Obviously there are plenty of people who disagree, since it's a beloved series. It's all about your priorities.

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