Board 8 > Persona 4 Golden beated (spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Was it worth replaying after I'd already beaten P4? No. I could've played like four normal-length games in that time. Oh well.

Thoughts:

• Every time I play a Persona game, I name myself the whitest name possible, because I think it's funny when I'm called things like Brent-san. P5 was Brent Johnson, P3 was Sven Larsson, P4 was George Franklin, and P4G was Chris Paulson. This accidentally resulted in multiple people calling me Chris-chan throughout the game.
• I'd heard many people complain about Marie in the past, but wanted to reserve judgment on her until I actually played the game. My judgment? She's shoehorned into the game very poorly. Even if I'd gone in blind, I think I would have still known she wasn't really part of the story. And when she starts showing up in the ending, especially in the final photograph, what is that? I really do get the complaints about her seeming like a Deviantart OC, to the point where I think I agree with them. It's worse than merely being poorly integrated into the story, though, because her personality is also very annoying? I know she's going for tsundere, but there are good tsunderes and bad tsunderes, and this is maybe the worst I've ever seen. It's even weirder, because she's a Velvet Room attendant when Elizabeth is already there. And everyone being like "oh man we have to save Marie, this girl we only sort of know," and everything revolving around that, bleh.
• I appreciate the ending showing everyone growing up a little. It reminds me of Phoenix Wright, where every time there's a flashback to the past, we see that everyone has had the same haircuts since they were two years old.
• Special thanks to Yoshitsune for trivializing the game with his light attack x8 ability after I fused him. The only battles I didn't resolve by spamming that were ones with enemies immune to physical attacks.
• I used Yosuke, Chie, and Yukiko the entire time. Everyone else was literally never in the party.
• I remember being annoyed at Yosuke's and Teddie's antics the first time I played this game, but in 2021, their perversions really do not fly.
• Special commendations to whatever jackass in Japan thought it would be a good idea to skip ahead automatically after beating Adachi, so that I lost three entire weeks of playtime. I was able to max every S-Link except Kanji and Naoki, and I think I would've gotten them, too, if I'd had those three weeks.
• Egypt Teacher is best teacher.
• I have no opinions on the Chie voice actor change.
• The game went on waaaaaay too long. I was ready for it to be over at Adachi, and then it just kept going onnnnnnnn. I groaned at the Marie dungeon.
• Overall, I'm going with P5 > P3 > P4. I've never played P5R or P3P, though.

What happens if you don't max Adachi and Marie in time?

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You don't get the extra scenes with them toward the end if you don't max them out. Did you get the extra dungeon with Marie or not? That's missable even if you max her out.

Also Golden is totally worth replaying after P4 Vanilla. I've probably beaten Golden 4 or 5 times.

And if you thought Marie was poorly implemented in the game, try watching the Golden anime...!

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Anagram posted...

What happens if you don't max Adachi and Marie in time?

Adachi's link only matters with regard to the new Accomplice Ending IIRC. (Well and the Rank 10 Persona) you need it to have reached Rank 6 before all the plot stuff around Nanako and Dojima and then you can choose to protect Adachi by covering for him during the "pick the culprit" section and unlock a new bad end where you burn the only physical evidence that links Adachi to the crime and he goes pretty trollface.

As for Marie, if her link isn't maxed before you beat Adachi then it's like you're playing P4 Vanilla and you just skip from December to the last day and the third semester doesn't happen but you can still get the original's true end by confronting Izanami. Doing this doesn't get you the new epilogue ending where you see everyone a bit older and such, it's just literally the ending as if you were playing the original version of the game.

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You get extra scenes with Adachi after you beat him if you forgo the Accomplice ending as well.

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Leonhart4 posted...

Did you get the extra dungeon with Marie or not? That's missable even if you max her out.

I did indeed.

I don't know how many more 80-hour epic games I have in me. For the immediate future, I just want a couple of short games.

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xp1337 posted...

Adachi's link only matters with regard to the new Accomplice Ending IIRC. (Well and the Rank 10 Persona) you need it to have reached Rank 6 before all the plot stuff around Nanako and Dojima and then you can choose to protect Adachi by covering for him during the "pick the culprit" section and unlock a new bad end where you burn the only physical evidence that links Adachi to the crime and he goes pretty trollface.

As for Marie, if her link isn't maxed before you beat Adachi then it's like you're playing P4 Vanilla and you just skip from December to the last day and the third semester doesn't happen but you can still get the original's true end by confronting Izanami. Doing this doesn't get you the new epilogue ending where you see everyone a bit older and such, it's just literally the ending as if you were playing the original version of the game.

Also thank you for this, I'm looking up the bad ending now.

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Leonhart4 posted...

You get extra scenes with Adachi after you beat him if you forgo the Accomplice ending as well.

Oh, right. Yeah. My mind just kinda rolled those into the social link itself and the stuff that comes with them for everyone but you're right.

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Also, it's really weird to me that Marie isn't a party member. At the end of the game, everything revolves around her, and everyone treats her like she's important to them. It surely couldn't have been that hard to make her a party member, right?

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I'm glad they didn't because she's enough of a self-insert fanfiction character as it is (not that I dislike her, but they put her on a pedestal a bit too much)!

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I really enjoyed P5 so I was excited when this came to steam last year. I think I got about 25 or 30 hours in before I couldn't do it anymore. Those dungeons were insufferable and I wasn't really clicking with the cast either. Also if you're making a murder mystery story try to have at least a few plausible killer options. I wasn't spoiled but it was obvious after like 5 hours who the killer was so it didn't really inspire me to keep playing.

Maybe I just got burned out on the formula after 90 hours of P5 because they're VERY similar but IDK.

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Persona is a very difficult series to play in reverse order

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I played 5-3-4 specifically because people, possibly Leonhart, told me that the series' gameplay gets worse as you go back in time, and I wanted to get 3 out of the way. AI party members was a huge mistake.

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skullbone posted...

Maybe I just got burned out on the formula after 90 hours of P5 because they're VERY similar but IDK.

I think part of the problem is that you started at P5 and went backwards. People who played P5 first tend to prefer it to the others, because the battle system and dungeon-crawling evolves by leaps and bounds between P4 and P5. If you start at P5, P3 and P4 are a slog to play.

For me, P4 is my favorite, simply because of how strong the cast dynamics are, how well-developed Inaba is, and how many good memories I have from it. I started with P3 per this board's recommendation over a decade ago and I have no regrets. It's easier for me to go back to. I need to get back to my Steam playthrough, which stopped because life got in the way.
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I'm another guy who played P5 before P4, and I echo those complaints about P4 feeling underwhelming. Everything (other than the supporting cast) feels like a major downgrade.

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P4 is my favorite of the three by a decent margin, but I get the struggle for others. P5 is just one of the smoothest games I've ever played.

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3 > P5 Royal > 4 > P5 Vanilla IMO.

persona 3 platinum when atlus

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Anagram posted...

* I used Yosuke, Chie, and Yukiko the entire time. Everyone else was literally never in the party.

Though I swapped Chie for Naoto toward the end, I agree with this.

* I remember being annoyed at Yosuke's and Teddie's antics the first time I played this game, but in 2021, their perversions really do not fly.

Teddie's a sicko, yes. But not Yosuke--he's a teenager, and he acts like one.

* The game went on waaaaaay too long. I was ready for it to be over at Adachi, and then it just kept going onnnnnnnn. I groaned at the Marie dungeon. I think I'm burned out on JRPGs for a while.

Plot-wise the game peaked with Nanako's disappearance, and everything after it felt flat.


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The best thing to come out of Persona 4 was the hiimdaisy comic.

https://youtu.be/w7lj9qI8VFc

(Not that I dislike the game overall, it just made the least impression on me compared to P3 or P5)

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I've attempted several times to complete Bossman Coolguy's journey in P3P, but it's pretty much impossible with all the QOL improvements 5 made.

We need remakes, obviously

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skullbone posted...

I really enjoyed P5 so I was excited when this came to steam last year. I think I got about 25 or 30 hours in before I couldn't do it anymore. Those dungeons were insufferable and I wasn't really clicking with the cast either. Also if you're making a murder mystery story try to have at least a few plausible killer options. I wasn't spoiled but it was obvious after like 5 hours who the killer was so it didn't really inspire me to keep playing.

Maybe I just got burned out on the formula after 90 hours of P5 because they're VERY similar but IDK.

This happened to me the first time I tried P4G as well. After I gave it a couple years and lowered expectations I was able to get through it though.
It's not bad, I just feel like 5 is an improvment in pretty much every single way. Once I was able to play it without comparing it to 5 I was able to enjoy it

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I'm playing through Golden right now. Beat 4 years ago, played and beat 5(haven't played royal) and yes, 5 is just an improvement in every way.

Some of these dungeons are just a slog, and the battle system is just better in 5.

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5 is an improvement aesthetically and in terms of gameplay, certainly, but I think 4 has a better story, better themes, and a way better main cast

P4 is a super slow starter though, which probably makes it tougher for people coming to it after 5.

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5 is just perfecting what 3 and 4 started, I think. 5 has its problems, like the first boss being vastly better than the subsequent thirty hours of the game, but it's so much smoother.

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LeonhartFour posted...

4 has a better story, better themes, and a way better main cast

I echo this so much. I legit thought the main cast were my friends because Atlus did such a good job at bringing them to life in a way few games have ever done. It's like I knew them, inside and out. P5 didn't have the same depth and the party's interactions were a major downgrade that made the game disappointing for me despite the gameplay improvements. P5's failure to capitalize on its theme of Sin is another thing.

P4 is a super slow starter though, which probably makes it tougher for people coming to it after 5.

Yeah, P4 is a slow burn compared to P5 being shot out of a cannon and then fizzling. The first act is the best one in vanilla P5 for a reason.
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I think a lot of the additions in P4G make the game worse, mainly the new scenes with the party interacting. The whole concert sequence is the worst part of the game by far.

I think the Marie stuff worked better for me because I did harem route in P4, so I did solo Marie romance here. Makes her feel more important? I don't think she's amazing, but I liked her for sure.

How long did you wait between P4 and P4G? Was around 8 years for me, which I think was long enough. I played P4G on Easy to make it go faster though since I wasn't interested in spending hours slogging through each dungeon again.

P3P's improvements were a bigger deal than P4G's to me. They cut out most of the worst parts of that game.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

The first act is the best one in vanilla P5 for a reason.

What's the reason?
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The worst part of P4G is when a character's voice actor clearly changes in the middle of the scene and then changes back

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Mac Arrowny posted...

How long did you wait between P4 and P4G? Was around 8 years for me, which I think was long enough.

Like three-four years.

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Yeah, that's too quick I think. It's part of why I haven't played P5R yet (the other part being that it doesn't let you play on New Game +...). I hope P5R gets a PC release or something so I can just DL a save and play it on New Game + at some point.
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Mac Arrowny posted...

What's the reason?

Because taking down Kamoshida was inherently personal for all active party members as opposed to just one. Destroying him was a strong motivator that also bonded the four of them together. Not to mention the guy was such an incredible dirtbag of a villain that you wanted to bring down. None of the subsequent villains until the Big Bad had even remotely close to the same stakes. The other acts don't have the same stakes until the endgame - and even then, those were lacking in the same character chemistry that Joker, Ryuji, Ann, and Kitty had as just a foursome bonding together to take down someone they all hated. Plus, the later dungeons go on for too damn long (especially that monstrous ship).

Mac Arrowny posted...

I think a lot of the additions in P4G make the game worse, mainly the new scenes with the party interacting. The whole concert sequence is the worst part of the game by far.

I loved the new act they added to the game, but I do agree that the concert sequence was pretty disappointing. P5R has similar problems and it doesn't fix the soullessness that plagues most of the mid-game.

LeonhartFour posted...

The worst part of P4G is when a character's voice actor clearly changes in the middle of the scene and then changes back

I can only think of one instance in P4G where that bothered me (the Nametame interrogation in the hospital). It's certainly not as bad as, say, Vesperia.
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That's the only time that happened because they simply recast everyone else

But his original VA was so effective and the new guy only had a few new lines so I guess they didn't want to recast him

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I only just realized that GameFAQs censored a high-level persona name in my post.

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I definitely think an argument can be made that vanilla P4 is better than Golden, having just replayed Golden for the third(?) time and finding the entire last section unbearably boring.

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Anagram posted...

I only just realized that GameFAQs censored a high-level persona name in my post.

Is there a reason you still have GameFAQs censoring turned on?
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I just got to the final dungeon

I suspected Adachi for a significant amount of the game. He's an "extra" character who plays the fool, and constantly "accidentally" slips you information. If he's really the bumbling fool he depicted himself as, he probably is never allowed to be a cop anyway. His job gave him a perfect position to manipulate inexplicable murders even further.

There are a couple of moments where it feels like it drags, I agree there. I've heard the drag gets even worse after Adachi too.

Marie is.. An oft-annoying side character who doesn't really add anything to the game because there's 0 attempt to ever integrate her into the actual storyline. Her social link events "exist" and all tie to a singular point, but it never has even the slightest to do with the game.

Now I haven't entered the bonus dungeon later on (I still have to take my Ultra Trumpeter and nearly invincible Yoshitsune on a romp to Adachi), but I suspect it'll feel just as irrelevant. The only reason I bothered getting this social link up early was to unlock this dungeon.

You get 0 warnings that any social links are time restricted, and half of them are. You have to max Nanako by 10/31, Adachi by 11/1, your party by 11/27, and Marie before you beat Adachi. There's a significant amount of social links you have to rush, and no way of knowing you have to rush them.

I didn't know the playable party locked out for a long while and finished the last in-party social link on 11/27.

This game has kind of felt really sluggish but I'll get this done. The dungeons start feeling the same, just with a different paint job. There's always a couple of monsters that barely ever show up that you need 10 items from to unlock something, and you'll fight 2-3 identical formations of trash monsters upwards of 100 times just waiting for what you really want to show up. This is the single most annoying thing in the game. I hit level 99 a little while ago because the "rare" hands were way more common than these enemies were, and I'd farm them when I saw them.

Yoshitsune and Trumpeter are both just a hair short of 99. Trumpeter is virtually maxed in all stats and Yoshitsune is getting there. The only time I've done any grinding at all was to get these two a couple of levels shortly after making them. Otherwise this has all come just from the grind of getting the drops to unlock everything.

All in all, it's a game that really needs more polish. Once you're past two dungeons, mostly you're just fighting palette swaps and traveling through dungeons that aren't any different, and have the same frustrations.

Also there's no quick way to skip by days? Bad.

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Wow what kind of monster wants to skip days in Persona

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The dungeons are maybe the worst part of P4 yeah. They're soooo long and aren't very interesting.
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The best thing about playing on NG+ is being able to blow through dungeons in a single day.

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They're still too long, especially if you do the (bad) sidequests.
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Leonhart4 posted...

The best thing about playing on NG+ is being able to blow through dungeons in a single day.

I blow through all dungeons in a single day anyway. I assumed everyone did. I have never entered the TV world outside of 1 day clearing dungeons/doing the previous dungeon's sidequests and special boss. When I have everything unlocked later I'll jump in doing rain and bounce around killing the rainy shadows. The third dungeon actually opened up during rain, but nothing else did.

Rainy shadows felt far too common during rain anyway and really got in the way of hunting other shadows. So I don't mind doing them last.

A lot of NG+ is burning days away, which you can't do quickly. #1 reason I have no interest in it.

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Just eat the rainy day special at Aiya's if you want to blow through a day quickly

I don't recall having too many wasted days with the extra content Golden added though.

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Also I feel like I'm going to have every social link maxed and every book read with like, a month or more left in the game. There isn't a single social link I don't already have at at least 5.

Dayskip please thank you.

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Crescent-Moon posted...

Also I feel like I'm going to have every social link maxed and every book read with like, a month or more left in the game. There isn't a single social link I don't already have at at least 5.

You will not.

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Persona 5 is the game where it became super easy to max everyone out with plenty of time left. I wasn't even following a guide and I had like three weeks left with everyone maxed.

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Leonhart4 posted...

You will not.

Well, I guess it could skip a whole lot of days at some point again. I forgot I didn't get it all the way to go time yet, got pulled away.

As of 12/17 evening:

Marie 9
Adachi 8 (can't max until the very end)
Kou 7
Hisano 6
Naoki/Ai/Eri 5
Yumi 4

Everyone else is maxed. I need to read 15 more times at night.

I'd have to lose an absurd amount of days not to max that all out within two months, and I have three.

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Eri 5 is a concern

also, this is maybe a spoiler but I feel like it should be accounted for:

there is one extra social link for each party member in the new month, so there's about a week lost right there

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It looks like almost every day of January and Februrary is snowing, meaning Eri also needs to be maxed very very early and no one actually warns about it.

Well, time to go back a couple of weeks!

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colliding posted...

there is one extra social link for each party member in the new month, so there's about a week lost right there

This also goes completely against the social link warning I've seen all over the place that the party has to be maxed by 11/27.

Also imminently fixable!

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That warning is presumably from P4 Vanilla when you didn't have an extra 6ish weeks to finish everything

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Leonhart4 posted...

That warning is presumably from P4 Vanilla when you didn't have an extra 6ish weeks to finish everything

I've seen that warning 3 times from things that are specifically about Golden and specifically about the party itself. NPCs could wait, but the party had to be done by 11/27.

So I had no reason to assume they were ALL wrong.

And as far as I gather the Adachi social link wasn't even a thing in vanilla and they all have the warning about finishing him by 11/01.

I don't look up what to do specifically, I just make sure I avoid being blindsided. Apparently 3 different guides getting it wrong WAS the blindside oops?

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Well, the extra thing they're talking about for your party members is only available if they're already maxed. You may not be able to level them up in the extra content. I always have all the party members maxed by then so I'm not sure.

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