Board 8 > Dave Chappelle's Netflix specials.

(+) Yeah! (+)

I mean it's just objectively comical to add into a discussion about South Park being an influential piece of media to just... state you hold that exact primary philosophy being discussed that South Park espouses.

---

Paratroopa1 posted...

You are literally insightfully demonstrating the harm that I believe South Park caused right in the middle of this discussion

Sorry, I think this post was poorly clarified - I mean to say that you are correct with regards to swordz's stance being a mistaken one, and the way in which you are pointing out the mistake is demonstrating the way in which South Park has messed people up in the way that you think didn't happen

pjbasis posted...

Swords would you not have had an opinion on slavery? I don't think its possible to not care about politics, you just think it means something distant categorically.

Im not saying I have no opinions that couldnt be viewed as political. Ideally every human would be equal regardless of their ethnicity, religious beliefs or lack of and whatever sex/gender (or whatever the right word is) that they identify as).

When I say I dont care about politics what Im saying is I dont discuss it. I dont read articles on it. I dont watch political debates. I dont look into who is running or what theyre aim and I dont even care enough to go vote. I just have no interesting in watching politicians or discussing politics.

there is a heck of a lot to unpack there

---

Paratroopa1 posted...

You are literally insightfully demonstrating the harm that I believe South Park caused right in the middle of this discussion

I don't think south Park created detached centrists single handidly lmao.

I also never said it didn't contribute. But label me as something easy to understand for you.

---

GuessMyUserName posted...

there is a heck of a lot to unpack there

Yeah had to just kinda stare at that for a bit

---

pjbasis posted...

I don't think south Park created detached centrists single handidly lmao.

I also never said it didn't contribute. But label me as something easy to understand for you.

reinforced, not created

Not denying it.

I just wanted to recognize that it wasn't solely that. Which was apparently enough to imply I was indoctrinated by South park.

---

swordz9 posted...

Im not saying I have no opinions that couldnt be viewed as political. Ideally every human would be equal regardless of their ethnicity, religious beliefs or lack of and whatever sex/gender (or whatever the right word is) that they identify as).

When I say I dont care about politics what Im saying is I dont discuss it. I dont read articles on it. I dont watch political debates. I dont look into who is running or what theyre aim and I dont even care enough to go vote. I just have no interesting in watching politicians or discussing politics.

I'm not sure what the point of your original post was then outside of trying to come across as above it all. You openly wonder why people care about 'garbage politics' in media, and then when people point out that it's the exact kind of ideology that's problematic in our society, you pivot to saying that what you meant is that you've completely disconnected yourself from politics to the point where basic tenets of society are confusing to you. I mean...congrats?

---

KamikazePotato posted...

South Park has been incredibly harmful and further emboldened the Enlightened Centrist ideology, so that's not a best example for the point you're trying to make

Being 'above it all' means that 99% of the time you're just propagating conservative values

extremely correct take

---

Nearly all comedy was like this lets be real.

---

pjbasis posted...

Nearly all comedy was like this lets be real.

Actually, I think The Simpsons, South Park's closest contemporary, is DECIDEDLY ANYTHING BUT THIS, at least during its golden years. The Simpsons has always had cynical takes but they're always couched in a deep level of optimism, empathy, and respect for others, which is the magic ingredient that I think South Park is sorely lacking. I don't think The Simpsons is even remotely 'enlightened centrist.'

"nearly all comedy" is enlightened centrism? wut? i think george carlin was far from an enlightened centrist.

---

Its funny I thought south park was just the popular example of a greater thing, but you guys actually just dont like south Park.

---

bruh moment

---

Im not trying to sound above anything. For stuff like South Park and Chappelle I just watch it for entertainment. I think theyre funny and enjoy watching them. I dont care what messages they may or may not be trying to send because all I care about is the fun factor they provide me. Im a very simple creature like that. If something isnt entertaining to me I just dont care about it. Im very much a popcorn entertainment kind of person.

Sports are something Im also not interested in either. Tons of people are, but I am not in the slightest. I dont watch them or pay any kind of attention to them. I couldnt even tell you what team Lebron or Brady are on or even name any other players.

Paratroopa1 posted...

The Simpsons has always had cynical takes but they're always couched in a deep level of optimism, empathy, and respect for others, which is the magic ingredient that I think South Park is sorely lacking

I felt Golden south Park was like this too. But I'm sure my experiences and feelings matter a lot less than yours. You sound so confident and all.

---

I was gonna leave this topic alone as a relic of me not reading the room well and asking about Chappelle in a comedy context at a time he's being viewed in a political context. That said, the topic's been brought back to life twice so...

GuessMyUserName posted...

If you're actually interested in understanding the issues I'd recommend Jessie Gender's video on the topic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiJQV378F5A

She gives a lot of credit where it's due and more benefit of the doubt than most people would - since frankly that's what she does on all her serious issue videos to have a fair dialogue. But still very well points to the blatant problems in the special. To deny those issues as people being too sensitive is just plain arrogant.

...best post in here, appreciate the video.

---

I always have to laugh at people that use the term "enlightened centrism" unironically. Imagine being so brainwashed and mentally deficient that any position besides blind support of an arbitrary and poorly defined "ideology" is seen as a negative.

---

Paratroopa1 posted...

Actually, I think The Simpsons, South Park's closest contemporary, is DECIDEDLY ANYTHING BUT THIS, at least during its golden years. The Simpsons has always had cynical takes but they're always couched in a deep level of optimism, empathy, and respect for others, which is the magic ingredient that I think South Park is sorely lacking. I don't think The Simpsons is even remotely 'enlightened centrist.'

I might challenge optimism there

Theres a very strong moral thread through classic Simpsons that doing the right thing wont make a difference, and quite possibly could make you miserable, but you should do it anyway. Even if you cant affect real change, you can still save your own soul. A sort of religious take on the categorical imperative.

I guess thats a sort of optimism about good deeds eventually being rewarded, but as an atheist I can never be at peace with that take.

---

As an atheist I think the soul can basically stand in as "your authentic self" and living by ideals can be more important than being rewarded.


---

pjbasis posted...

I felt Golden south Park was like this too. But I'm sure my experiences and feelings matter a lot less than yours. You sound so confident and all.

Yeah, fuck off.

BlAcK TuRtLe posted...

I always have to laugh at people that use the term "enlightened centrism" unironically. Imagine being so brainwashed and mentally deficient that any position besides blind support of an arbitrary and poorly defined "ideology" is seen as a negative.

imagine being dumb and thinking this is what theyre saying

oh wait you dont have to imagine it

---

UltimaterializerX posted...

Something I've noticed about leftists over the years is they like to make up words and terms

imagine a world where language evolves over time as society changes

crazy leftists right

---

Paratroopa1 posted...

Yeah, fuck off.

You earned it.

---

You earned going onto my ignore list forever, I don't have business with you anymore.

UltimaterializerX posted...

There is a difference between "language evolves" and "I'm a genderfluid bugkinzix who can't take a joke" and you full well know it.

"genderfluid" is a word with a specific meaning that entered the vocabulary as understanding of gender identity expanded.
"bugkinzix" is nonsense you just made up because you can't seem to tell the difference between real and fake language

---

HaRRicH posted...

I was gonna leave this topic alone as a relic of me not reading the room well and asking about Chappelle in a comedy context at a time he's being viewed in a political context. That said, the topic's been brought back to life twice so...

...best post in here, appreciate the video.

Glad to see it appreciated! If you enjoyed that one she's put out a second yesterday tackling a few more things she didn't yet cover

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDxv9yMNZow

First half on some of the aftermath, using "cancellation" as a marketing tool that further stokes divisions against the trans community while dismissing honest criticism, (good quote at the end) "it allows people to get angry about trans people, without listening to trans people".

Second half touches on Chappelle's framing of Daphne within the special which the first video didn't cover, and I'd rather leave to people to watch her video to understand. But really pointing out indeed the framing of the larger trans community as adversarial in an us vs them rhetoric - specifically distinguishing Daphne from the rest of us.

Adding my own commentary for a moment here: Suicide isn't exactly new to the trans community, and for once Chappelle finally an audience of cis folks to feel that pain.... because he can relate it to himself. It's a pain the audience can feel from Chappelle, someone they look up to, and feel for themselves.

Going back to the video, but unfortunately with the adversarial framing Chappelle uses, he targets this emotional distress against the trans community - even if unintentional, it's an immensely heavy weight and yes one he leans on the trans community as causing with statements that "they was going in on her" - mind you, an impression we can only rely on Chappelle to be telling accurately. Believe what you will but this absolutely will stir anger towards the trans community within this audience, and in all honesty a number of incensed listeners will go out and repeat that exact same harassment Daphne may have faced against other members of the trans community. As they have, even with all the nuance in the world Jessie gave in her first video receiving a mountain of vile comments against it, ignoring her arguments. It's incredibly insincere to end on such a strong statement for Daphne without at all considering many many more trans women online going through the same shit, and at best cluelessly inflaming it. It's also powerful as Jessie points out the harassment she herself receives... is completely mirrored in the more casual jokes Chappelle himself tells.

Video ends off covering the broader conversation of weaponization tactics by transphobes online, as well as pointing towards good trans comedy even by cis folks (even as including Chappelle's own theys joke in The Closer as such a positive example). I didn't really intend to summarize with as large a post I'm ending up with here, but I think it's just a really important and difficult conversation to make on unintended effects of adversarial framing that doesn't get understood by people who unironically complain about "us vs them" mentality within the context of "cancel culture", without taking note of where that dichotomy is growing from.

---

pjbasis posted...

Is he actually transphobic or did he just say some things that weren't PC enough.

DIdn't expect to end up landing so close to the first option, but after watching that video (first 20 min), he seems kind of wildly ignorant about what the transgender community actually believes.

I don't think I'm well researched on the matter but those first jokes about rowling and terfs were immediately awkward. His intentions might be to have transpeeps laugh along with him, but it's not coming across that well. Especially because his jokes are the kind of jokes actual transphobes would use and laugh at. When you can't tell them apart it gets uncomfortable.

Kinda regret adding to the voices of casual dismissal, but hey it was an honest question and I knew that I would learn more about it in time.

---

pjbasis posted...

Especially because his jokes are the kind of jokes actual transphobes would use and laugh at.

Yeah this is absolutely where lines cross into problematic where comedians need to start listening to the voices of their targets - because to be entirely fair a lot of people don't know the kind of harassment particular minorities really face, in this instance what transphobes are saying to trans people. And if you cross over that line, all you have to do is acknowledge it and move away from that comedy rather than doubling down and dismissing.

Really as it's topical this also applies to a lot of old South Park humour I enjoyed in my younger days that now puts me off. Although keeping in mind yeah looking that many years back you're gonna find a lot of bad stuff we've grown from and look bad to most people now, but I can't really speak to South Park's newer stuff I don't watch.

pjbasis posted...

Kinda regret adding to the voices of casual dismissal, but hey it was an honest question and I knew that I would learn more about it in time.

In the end I'm just always glad when people acknowledge mistakes and hopefully grow from there.

---

pjbasis posted...

he seems kind of wildly ignorant about what the transgender community actually believes.

That honestly feels like the perspective of most of the people who don't care for the trans community. There are constant allegations and assumptions thrown out about trans people and the trans community, typically by people who make no effort to actually learn about what they're criticizing beforehand

---

yeah just makes me wanna center in that quote from Jessie's 2nd video that really resonated

GuessMyUserName posted...

"it allows people to get angry about trans people, without listening to trans people"

deserves repeating outside of a 50min video and my paragraphed commentary on it

---

GuessMyUserName posted...

Glad to see it appreciated! If you enjoyed that one she's put out a second yesterday tackling a few more things she didn't yet cover

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDxv9yMNZow

I'm glad you're really doing the legwork on summarizing this that I don't have the patience to do right now. It's gotten to the point on the Chappelle thing where even watching this video made by someone who's on my side just feels like more emotional energy than I want to put into it, and I feel like there's really no reason to force myself to do it, feel like I've earned a pass

Yeah I absolutely get what you mean, to be honest a lot of times I see this topic bump up I just think to myself I really can't deal with that right now and leave it alone, sometimes for days - and that goes for a lot of Jessie's videos that crop up on my timeline I really haven't had the time to stomach through. She herself even gets bogged down in putting out these videos as you can imagine when she wants to do a lot of nonserious nerdy videos, and in one of her more recent ones she said she wants to cut down on them to focus more on what she wants to put out (although the serious issues are the ones that get significant views as a content creator, albeit with the cost of more hate comments)

It helps though for me in this topic at least when I see more positive and open voices are in the mix, and even skeptics turning a bit towards understanding I can come back and add what I can to help

Of course I do block the usual loudmouths who just wanna start shit and be contrarian

---

Anyone willing to make a video on this topic is braver than I am

This topic is something.
I did like that there was a respectful discussion at some point

---

This topic is nothing. Late 2016 is still by far the worst this board has ever been.

---

I bet everywhere was the worst its ever seen at that time

---

KamikazePotato posted...

This topic is nothing. Late 2016 is still by far the worst this board has ever been.

Yeah that time period was just too much for me, I ended up leaving for a few years because of it

me telling pj to fuck off is nothing compared to how frustrated I was in 2016

BlAcK TuRtLe posted...

I always have to laugh at people that use the term "enlightened centrism" unironically. Imagine being so brainwashed and mentally deficient that any position besides blind support of an arbitrary and poorly defined "ideology" is seen as a negative.

imagine feeling superior to the left and the right just because you don't take a side.

---

GuessMyUserName posted...

Really as it's topical this also applies to a lot of old South Park humour I enjoyed in my younger days that now puts me off.

when i was in my early teens, i was an edgelord and thought all offensive and crude humor was automatically hilarious so naturally i loved south park. fortunately, i eventually grew out of that phase.

---

It's honestly super easy to tell when you meet someone who never outgrew the edgelord humor of South Park in any capacity. Not that the show is ALL edgelord humor, but you know the stuff I'm talking about

I used to know one guy like that. He believed in Pizzagate

---

the alpha/beta era is still the worst board 8 has ever been.

late 2016 was also bad but not nearly as terrible as that era.

---

Alpha/beta, GG, and trumpism are all part of the same neo-nationalism movement. They each got worse than the previous, objectively, but alpha/beta was our first exposure to it, so it felt the worst.

Honestly by the time trumpism came around I saw absolutely nothing new.

---

I'd also connect the alpha/beta stuff to, like, flat Earthism, as part of the same "I don't care about reality, I just want to spout my made up bullshit" movement. Maybe that's part of neo-nationalism too, idk

---

Nah that's too broad. I don't think flat earthism is necessarily political. It's like MLMs and crystals and such.

---