Board 8 > Finally playing Edgeworth 2 (spoilers)

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Leonhart4
05/25/21 7:02:18 PM
#102:


Kay's freaking out animation might be the most unsettling one in the series.

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SeabassDebeste
05/25/21 7:12:08 PM
#103:


colliding posted...
This is a weird anime trope that I've seen a few times now - cute girl with a big syringe

probably phallic-related

Leonhart4 posted...
Kay's freaking out animation might be the most unsettling one in the series.

agreed. this case does a good job with using kay as "stakes," better than aa main series extending maya as victim way too long
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colliding
05/25/21 9:34:15 PM
#104:


Leonhart4 posted...
Kay's freaking out animation might be the most unsettling one in the series.

yeah this was actually a bit off putting and tonally incongruous with the series I'd argue.

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LeonhartFour
05/25/21 11:41:14 PM
#105:


I think it's mostly to drive home the point that Kay's amnesia isn't being played for laughs.

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colliding
05/27/21 2:30:10 PM
#106:


The Forgotten Turnabout, cont.

Disappointingly the body doesnt look like Kay, so we can cross "Kay actually did die," "she has a twin," and "was cloned" off the theory list. In a kismetic turn of fate, the body just happens to be in the PICs meeting room, where Edgeworth was scheduled to be tarred and feathered. Maybe Kay came here to try and help Edgeworth and something happened? Karin is here, with yet another fugly AAI character: Karins grandma Bonnie Young. "Fugly" is maybe a bit too harsh. Shes not too bad compared to Delicia, but she still looks like a wrinkly turd of a person. But hey, we finally meet the AA-verses coroner. I wonder if shes been the one messing up our autopsy reports for all these years? She at least has fun gimmicks, like bonking Karin on the head occasionally. Also, I'm happy to see that the "Dye-Young hospital" was more than just a throwaway gag.

I wrote down this bit of dialogue because it was so good: during our investigation, Edgeworth asks Kay if she remembers anything about Gumshoe. She replies that Edgeworth just now was getting on Gumshoes case. Gumshoe replies that this isnt a memory, this is just a part of his pleasant daily life. Something I didn't like was Gumshoe's Monty Python reference soon after this, where he name drops the Knights who say "Nee." A bit too Working Designs for my taste.

Just as Im about to dip my toes into a giant pool of blood at the crime scene, my queen, Franziska, finally graces us with her presence. Franzy is an underrated AA character imo. She kind of sucked in JFA, but ever since she's been great, with some of my favorite animations. Big fan of the finger-wag. One thing I completely forgot from AAI was that Franzy was in charge of Interpol's smuggling ring case and was flying around the world, so I appreciated the tasteful exposition here.

While post-JFA Franzy is pretty good, she does get a bit whip crazy. Maybe she does it a bit too much for my taste, but there are some choice moments like when she tells Gumshoe Try harder, worthless whipbait. Well, I hope this doesnt awaken something in me.

"Nu-Kay" is wearing a white pantsuit and boasting three holes in the chest, probably from the nearby candelabra. She also has weird burns, a security card, a mens jacket, white gloves (not on her hands) and Kays notebook from the last game. The bad news is that it appears that Kays corsage was ripped from the jacket of Nu-Kay. Oh great. Kays done and pulled a Maya on us, hasnt she.

FYI: a googled for a neat comic strip of Franziska to open this post, but then I saw a bunch of Franzy/Edgey shipping art, along with fan-art of "modern day Franziska," that disturbed me. My fault.

Next: Debeste's Dad

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Leonhart4
05/27/21 2:40:08 PM
#107:


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McMoogle
05/27/21 5:12:12 PM
#108:


I love the DeBestes. This whole game is wonderful

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colliding
05/28/21 11:42:25 AM
#109:



Pictured above: live footage of Blaise Debeste destroying my Nanowrimo manuscript. Now more Forgotten Turnabout!

Sebastian shows up, singing the Mighty Mouse theme song. Did he develop a new gimmick, or has he always been a singer? Franzy whips him nearly immediately after he begins speaking - she knows garbage when she sees it. Judge Courtney is also here, and she reveals that Nu-Kay is actually Jill Crane, an attorney in the PIC. Debeste accuses Kay of the murder. The ID card number gimmick from 1-5 comes back. Side note: why do these records have blank names next to the numbers? What purpose is the ID card record if I have to figure out the number/name match on my own? It's fun, so whatever, but isn't this kind of a bad system if the computer can't automatically cross reference the ID numb-YEEEOWCH *gets whipped for thinking too seriously*

Courtney presents an incriminating letter from Kay to Crane, saying thanks for working together. Kay gets something, while Crane gets revenge for 12 years ago. Do I smell yet another flashback case? Already? I've barely finished shoveling the IS-7 incident into the corner of the brain that stores my MK fatalities and hidden block locations.

The letter is pretty fishy, but once I point out that it was found in the victim's bloody pocket but is conveniently missing puncture marks from the candelabra, it becomes obvious it was placed there after the murder. Having played 1-5 before in the MASON system, we can assume, Edgeworth suggests we figure out who the other blank on the keycard list is. Courtney stops him right there: it's her. Not particularly suspicious, given that this is her workplace I guess.

Why do I hear boss music? A new character appears: Chairman Debeste, Sebastian's dad. I don't know how I feel about this guy. He's pretty obviousIy evil; I'd even wager the final boss of the game given his extremely evil theme song. But beyond that, I'm confused by his gimmicks. His character design is going for a daredevil motif, I think, like Evil Knievel? But it could also be a biker outfit, which would explain the big beard. But he also cries all the time and has to dump the tears out of his goggles? Gross! And occasionally he'll pull out a lighter and play with it, sometimes lighting some random papers on fire. That explains the "Blaise" pun, but what is this guy's deal? I DON'T UNDERSTAND. How was this guy ever a chief prosecutor/chairman of the PIC?

He also has a gimmick where he's verbally abusive to his son: Im the proud father of that idiot over there. I mean... Sebastian is pretty dumb, so the shoe fits. But that's not cool. It's pretty clear to me that this toxic relationship is meant to parallel Gustavia's from the last case, and the Edgeworth/Von Karma dynamic. All of these can be juxtaposed with the healthy relationship between Edgeworth and Gregory that was cut short.

Blaise quickly moves to shut down the investigation and arrest Kay, saying that any further actions will result in Edgeworth losing his badge. Sick of being constantly threatened with this, Edgeworth just blows the whole thing up. He takes off his prosecutors badge and resigns on the spot. Franzys upset, Gumshoes upset, Kays upset and whoops, there she goes.

Edgeworth, now jobless, chases after her. He runs back to his office, hoping Kay will be there. One letter off, it turns out, as Ray shows up. He cheers Edgeworth up a bit, and they go investigate the rooftop garden again to see if they can figure out Kays memory loss issue.

And now I'm officially caught up with the writeups.

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SeabassDebeste
05/28/21 1:23:17 PM
#110:


caught-up hype!

colliding posted...
All of these can be juxtaposed with the healthy relationship between Edgeworth and Gregory that was cut short.

just goes to show you how great gregory is
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LeonhartFour
05/28/21 1:46:53 PM
#111:


And how messed up AA relationships tend to be! I think we've got two happy marriages in the entire series!

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MyMainAccount
05/28/21 4:45:25 PM
#112:


You are now tracking this topic

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_SecretSquirrel
05/28/21 5:33:52 PM
#113:


LeonhartFour posted...
And how messed up AA relationships tend to be! I think we've got two happy marriages in the entire series!
The DeLites and the Kitakis, right?

And even the latter has problems with their son.

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Leonhart4
05/28/21 5:35:21 PM
#114:


_SecretSquirrel posted...
The DeLites and the Kitakis, right?

And even the latter has problems with their son.

Well, I was thinking the DeLites and the Sprockets, but I suppose the Kitakis count, even if they are pretty minor.

Although I guess only the Sprockets aren't living a life of crime...!

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MrSmartGuy
05/30/21 3:23:32 AM
#115:


The Inmees were pretty happy until..... that happened.

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colliding
05/31/21 4:20:30 PM
#116:


LeonhartFour posted...
And how messed up AA relationships tend to be! I think we've got two happy marriages in the entire series!

To add to the conversation, I'll suggest Mr. and Mrs. Maggey Gumshoe, who aren't in the series anymore because they got married after Edgeworth 2 and are raising three kids happily. Or at least, they could be. No one knows. They might both be dead for all we know.

A short Memorial Day update to our Case 4 playthrough: After a few days of not playing, I re-read this thread to help catch me up. Edgeworth gave up his badge? I check the court record and sure enough his prosecutors badge is gone. We're up on the roof of the Grand Tower. We briefly talk with Karin and Bonnie before Kay (who had run away) falls out of the cherry tree. Edgeworth scolds her for running off in a touching scene, before it is rudely interrupted by Rays creepy uncle shenanigans.

This case, so far, has been assuming that Kay was pushed off of a 50 story building and survived with only amnesia. But since Kay isnt a stain on the pavement, she probably didnt actually fall: so let's figure out what happened. Deduce rears its ugly head again. I investigate the TV, which shows a live broadcast of the building. This time I luck into choosing the right answer because I thought maybe a window was open turns out theres a hidden 51st floor between the roof and the PIC floor. I thought maybe that was just a load bearing part of the building. We surmise that Kay fell down the maintenance hatch into the 51st floor.

Before we can investigate it, everyones second (maybe third) favorite PW assistant - Ema Skye - shows up! This is pre-jaded Detective Ema, but post 1-5 Ema: a rare Ema indeed. Her arrival at exactly this time and circumstance is a bit random indeed, but Ill never turn down an Ema appearance. There's some explanation here about she having her teacher with her, who's an expert in body language. Maybe they'll show up later.

One quick investigation later, we've found the hatch that leads down to the hidden 51st floor.

Next: Who's in the Hatch? (L O S T reference)

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LeonhartFour
05/31/21 4:23:26 PM
#117:


colliding posted...
They might both be dead for all we know.

well we know Gumshoe at least isn't dead!

colliding posted...
everyones second (maybe third) favorite PW assistant - Ema Skye

According to my poll, she's behind Kay and Gumshoe, so that would make her fourth!

(She's way better as just a detective than an assistant)

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colliding
05/31/21 4:26:24 PM
#118:


LeonhartFour posted...
well we know Gumshoe at least isn't dead!

that's right, there was some kind of reference to Gumshoe in SOJ wasn't there? I've forgotten but I kind of remember that.

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LeonhartFour
05/31/21 5:02:26 PM
#119:


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SeabassDebeste
05/31/21 6:05:54 PM
#120:


it's been ten years since lost ended and in some ways it feels like longer - by like 2013 it felt absolutely ancient

i greatly dislike this series's reliance on passing out and amnesia or whatever to advance its mysteries. i'm not sure it's always necessary.
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colliding
06/01/21 9:32:34 AM
#121:




Down the hatch we go, to the secret 51st floor, where we find a bunch of evidence from AAI whose significance is lost on me, because I chose to skip replaying it before I played this one. I had no problem whatsover sending that game to Wifebolo for her playthrough (which you should read/follow/comment on by the way)! I thought it was fine, but too tedious to warrant a playthrough: I do vaguely remember the Alice Red statue from E1-2, and I also recognize Mr. Monkeys head and Redd Whites table. It is obvious that the candelabra and the Jammin Ninja mask both came from here.

Someone is selling old evidence on the black market. Edgeworth gets lost in thought pondering the fate of the Iron Infant, son of the steel Samurai and the Pink Princess, cursed with responsibility similar to his own. He's so lost in thought he doesn't notice when Lotta Hart appears from behind the Alice Red statue. Thankfully, she brought the witness theme from the first AA game with her! An underrated track. Maybe the most surprising aspect of this is that Edgeworth remembers her name on the first try. I generally like Lotta, though she's looking a lot whiter than I remember. The boilerplate response here is probably that Lotta was never meant to be dark-skinned, but that's not exactly "better"!

It turns out I was right about the Nicole/Lotta connection from Case 1. Somehow, Lotta is respeccted enough to take on pupils. She's switched her specialty from mythical creatures to ghosts to crime bosses, I guess. We gotta logic chess Lotta here which shouldnt be hard given that shes dumb as a post. Her timer is less generous than the prior logic chesses, but pretty simple. She's been hiding in the evidence room for the last day and a half, long enough to witness the Conductor arguing with someone. Lotta has a picture of raincoat guy; it seems this person likely killed Crane then went up to the roof, where they confronted Kay.

The body mustve been hidden around here, so that means its time for some good old fashioned scientific forensics, courtesy of Ema and her trademark luminol. I swear, Ema's just a walking talking spray bottle of luminol at this point. It's too much to ask for meaningful character development in a gaiden game, I understand, but can we not be so blatant that this is a game mechanic disguised as a character? She even takes time to co-opt Edgeworths lines Lets spray luminol on every suspicious looking nook and cranny. Not every nook and cranny, John! (There's a bonus extra L O S T reference for you).

Theres blood on the ladder, the lift, and a costume trunk. Edgeworth surmises the body was hidden in the trunk, but Lotta says it was locked up already when she got there. Strange.

All of a sudden I'm slightly suspicious of Ray. I love the guy, but maybe my "death" vibes are actually "secret culprit" vibes. Something about the way he warns Kay about getting on the lift is weird. Also, I thought it was weird how he offered me candy in Case 2. A bunch of small things. Probably nothing.

Next: The best line in the game so far

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Leonhart4
06/01/21 12:03:41 PM
#122:


For the record, it's the Alif Red statue, unless you were making another joke. Edgeworth calls it that because he can't remember the name of anything that isn't human.

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colliding
06/01/21 1:10:41 PM
#123:


when I get a name wrong it's usually not a joke. even when I got Kate's name wrong the first time, I really couldn't remember! I feel less bad about getting evidence wrong though.

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colliding
06/02/21 4:39:39 PM
#124:


The best line in the game so far comes when Edgeworth explains to Franziska why he gave up his prosecutor's badge. Edgeworth claims: I cast away my badge, because it had become a millstone around my neck. This is a line to thank competent fan translators for. I am convinced that if the AAI team had localized this, they would have butchered this somehow by trying to simplify it to just "a burden" or update the saying to something more general. This is of course a biblical reference, but it's a purposeful re-purposing of the original text, which is warning about people messing with Christ's followers. Here, Edgeworth is making a claim about the corrupted nature of the Prosecutor position.

Anyway, this is a playthrough topic, not a literary analysis, so let's move on. Down the lift we go, back into the PIC lobby, where we have to debate Franziska now. Shes pissed at Edgeworth for giving up his badge. Though I feel like her outburst is more about testing Edgeworths resolve than her actually figuring out the murder. I actually mess up here a bit, because the most obvious block of text (the murder took place in the meeting room) is NOT the one youre supposed to object to, but the one after, which is basically like what do you think of that, Edgeworth? Also, there are two pieces of evidence that could be used to show that the crime scene was somewhere else. Needless to say, it took me four tries.

Franziska reveals that she is here to investigate the evidence auction/smuggling ring and arrest the Conductor - who just so happens to wear a white suit and purple corsage, like the victim. Franziska recognizes Lotta, and I suppose shes still a little bitter about 2-2, because she does not like her whatsoever. 2-2 is certainly not Franzy's finest hour, but to be fair, it's no one's.

Courtney appears, as does Debeste Senior. They scold Edgeworth for a little while and then reveal that they found the red raincoat, did some tests on it, and it turns out the person wearing the red raincoat was the victim all along. So there was some kind of wardrobe change. Gotta say, I'm a bit lost for answers at this point, but I'm sure things will come into focus soon. In any case, something comes loose in Kays amnesia, and she remembers looking down on the person in the red raincoat, which makes her think she was guilty all along. Clearly a Maya 3-5 situation.

Next: Blaisie throws the book at Edgeworth for an illegal investigation and aiding and abetting a criminal. Edgeworth's in the slammer!

Side note:I get the feeling a lot of these serious repercussions will be addressed by the end of the case, if not the game, but it strikes me that this could be laying the foundation for a canonical explanation for Edgeworths inaction/absence in the 4-0 narrative. A big complaint I had about that case was that, given all the friends Phoenix had made, theres no way what actually happened in 4-0 would actually happen: Edgeworth wouldve done something and Gumshoe wouldn't have thrown away two and a half games of character development. I remember there being some throwaway lines in Dual Destinies, about Edgeworth being sorry he couldn't help. But if Edgeworth actually lost his prosecutors badge and was pre-occupied getting it back during 4-0, then it kind of makes sense. AJ still sucks and Hobonix shouldve been a completely new character, but I digress.

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SeabassDebeste
06/02/21 5:24:03 PM
#125:


colliding posted...
The best line in the game so far comes when Edgeworth explains to Franziska why he gave up his prosecutor's badge. Edgeworth claims: I cast away my badge, because it had become a millstone around my neck. This is a line to thank competent fan translators for. I am convinced that if the AAI team had localized this, they would have butchered this somehow by trying to simplify it to just "a burden" or update the saying to something more general. This is of course a biblical reference, but it's a purposeful re-purposing of the original text, which is warning about people messing with Christ's followers. Here, Edgeworth is making a claim about the corrupted nature of the Prosecutor position.

didn't know this - that's cool!
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Leonhart4
06/02/21 7:26:19 PM
#126:


Yeah, the lack of a suitable explanation for Edgeworth's and Maya's absences is one of the many problems with 4-0

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colliding
06/03/21 6:11:07 PM
#127:


Edgeworth is thrown in the slammer, with nothing to his name except Kays Yatagarasu badge. Before I can even check under the bed to see if the tunnel is still here, Gumshoe comes to visit, so Edgeworth heads to the interrogation room. Except its not Gumshoe: Iis Courtney! At first I think shes here to reveal a big secret, like Ive been testing you all this time to see if you can beat Blaise (still my going theory) but shes just here to ask why. Why Edgeworth is so committed to going against the PIC at the expense of his career. Edgeworth says the me from before had power. Which is why I thought justice was on my side. Another great line. This is probably the "smartest" AA game. Courtney still gives off some big secret good guy vibes, though.

Then Blaise stops by to make fun of me on his way to locking up Kay. The logic chess here is long and circular. Ultimately we figure out that Blaise knows that Kay's being set up and doesn't care. Truth is what you make it! This came out in 2011- if only this game had been released in the States, maybe it could have spared us the last ten years of cultural deterioration.

Following this, Edgeworth appears before the PIC. I dont really see what the point of this is, given that he already turned in the badge. Shouldnt he just be in court? I guess I should stop trying to figure out AAs legal system. This does kind of bother me though, as the hearing moves on to talk about the murder itself. Why is this happening now and not in front of old Udgey? Anyway, Blaise gives Edgeworth one last chance to withdraw his objections and play along, which Edgeworth turns down.

Then Blaise gives Edgeworth the evidence back, I guess because he doesnt think anything will come of it. *Tsk.* Idiot. All you had to do was not give him the evidence back. This is where suspension of disbelief comes in and I have to remind myself well the way the game is set up, culprits have to be completely over-confident morons in order for the game to exist the way it does, so just dont think about it. However, this is ultimately why Investigations as a series just doesnt really work for me, because so much of the story relies on antagonists being undone by hubris over and over and over again.

Next: Edgeworth on trial (except not really? Again, I don't understand what's really happening here).


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SeabassDebeste
06/03/21 6:41:35 PM
#128:


e2-4 is a little goofy but its structure is really entertaining
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colliding
06/03/21 6:52:15 PM
#129:


like maybe I misread the whole thing, but I thought the PIC was like an "internal affairs" for prosecutors, and the thing that they were threatening Edgeworth with was taking away his badge

*Edgeworth turns in badge*

Okay, time for a hearing! Wait, what?

but yes, I get it, I understand we have to have a videogame

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LeonhartFour
06/03/21 6:59:28 PM
#130:


well I guess they could prevent him from ever getting it back too since he turned it in voluntarily

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colliding
06/04/21 10:43:41 AM
#131:


Time to complain!

Yeah, so I had some trouble during Courtney's testimony, when she asks me to prove that the crime took place somewhere else besides the PIC hearing room. It's the same problem as before, where there's multiple forms of evidence and multiple objectionable passages. There are three pieces of evidence here that prominently show that the murder took place somewhere else: blood on the lift, blood in the trunk, and bloodstains in front of the statue. However, it turn out that NONE of those are the actual proof the game wants: instead I'm supposed to show the picture of the person in the red raincoat. I have to admit I used a guide here. It's annoying because the game wants me to make a circumstantial argument about the picture, whereas it makes much more sense to point to the big ass bloodstains.

Anyway, now that half my health bar is gone for no good reason, we can prove that raincoat person was the victim, who was attacked in the evidence room and went up to the roof before dying in front of Kay. Courtney objects, saying that someone who was stabbed with a candelabra couldnt do all that (fair). Edgeworth points out that the red raincoat doesnt have a lot of blood on it, considering the violent nature of the case or something, I was really heated about earlier. Bottom line: there's a contradiction in the autopsy report. Let's call the coroner.

While we wait for Bonnie, Courtney turns the discussion to the Conductor. Who is he? Edgeworth doesnt know, but he guesses that Blaise does. Blaise again displays confidence befitting a man in power who has no concept of objective truth. Edgeworth puts it all on the line to support Kay, who he really wants to help remember something. He drops a choice Gurren Lagann reference about believing in me believing in you, and, unfortunately, Gumshoe isnt around to cry manly tears (Blaise has got that covered, I guess). Blaise suggests that if Kay confesses to the crime again Edgeworth gets an automatic game over. In a dramatic moment, Edgeworth presents Kay the Yatagarasu badge, saying that shes a great thief who would never commit murder. Kay keeps telling Edgeworth to give up, and he deduces that Kays been trying to get him to stop for his own sake.

Finally, Kay remembers that the raincoated person had the bull doll with them (oh yeah, forgot to mention theres a suspicious bull doll from the first case hanging out in the court record). Blaise objects to this, but Courtney takes the chance to show some backbone. We examine the bull and, okay, did not see this coming, its a recording device? We hear the fight that Lotta heard, apparently.

Anyway, the multiple blood evidences get me AGAIN, when Edgeworth has to prove that there were traces left behind at the scene that the killer wanted to hide. Body in the trunk, NOPE. Blood near the lift NO. It has to be the big pool of blood in the PIC room (even though thats not the true crime scene, but whatever). For the love of God, get these pieces of evidence out of my court record, because they are MESSING ME UP.

Literally hanging on by a thread and reduced to save states, I press on. Lotta chimes in with something she just remembered. After the fight, she checked in on the auction and saw all the members present and accounted for, although one is supposedly dead, chilling in a trunk at the moment. She also says she could no longer hear the auction gavel. What does this all mean? Not sure, but I sure wish this section would end so I could get some health back.

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SeabassDebeste
06/04/21 11:08:29 AM
#132:


colliding posted...
In a dramatic moment, Edgeworth presents Kay the Yatagarasu badge, saying that shes a great thief who would never commit murder.

loved this, probably the best part of the case (even if i'm not sure it was entirely earned)
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colliding
06/06/21 9:28:54 PM
#133:



Here's the gang, gathered here for the finale to the Forgotten Turnabout.

We question Bonnie and Karin about the autopsy report - which was backwards the whole time (the bonkus on the konkus killed the victim, not the stabbing). Karin was an accomplice, fixing the report and also taking Crane's place at the auction, taking her clothes and swapping them with the raincoat. Then Crane staggered up to the roof where Kay saw her (pantsless presumably). Karin cops to everything but stops short of telling us who the Conductor is, but she drops a pretty big clue when she mentions there was a wavy wig in the trunk for her. He also has a face tattoo. Put two and two together and all of a sudden a certain character's design makes more sense.

Franziska shows up to drop the bombshell knowledge that will change everything about the case but its something we already figured out, about the head wound coming first. Nice to see one of these patented AA dramatic moments get undermined for comedic effect. She does inform us that the murder weapon was a blunt, cylindrical object. Maybe like a judge's gavel, or an auctioneers.

We search for the gavel to no avail, which prompts Courtney to pass a verdict. In an expected twist, she turns on Blaise and indicts him, literally "switching sides" (as in her graphic is flipped and she looks to the right now). In a move that actually is rather surprising, she presents documents related to the IS-7 incident. Just when you think E2-3 is over, now we have an encore. Not only was Blaise the one who failed to report the body missing, he also forced Bonnie to write a fake autopsy report, which in turn forced Karin to be an accomplice.

Blaise testifies about his relation to the victim. The questioning eventually discovers that the culprit, like Crane, has a burn mark. Blaise claims he doesn't have one, and you can see the light bulb turn on in Sebastian's head as he realizes that his dad is a liar. Everyone feels bad for Sebastian for a minute before they proceed to wreck his life. Look, it's Ace Attorney protocol: it's Sebastian's turn for his family to get ruined.

It's hard to feel too bad for Sebastian, because in a series known for its terrible dads (there's a poll for you Leonhart: worst dad), Blaise would be the worst if not for the crime against humanity known as Zak Gramarye. He confesses that Sebastians good grades and success are all due to him pulling strings in the background. This causes Sebastian to run away crying. As revenge, we point out that dudes been wearing a fake beard this whole time. He burns it up by accident, we see the burn mark and that's the end of the case. You shouldnt have given Edgeworth his evidence back bro.

Courtney fills us in on the backstory (kind of): Cranes boyfriend was investigating the evidence ring and got snuffed out. Kay and Crane were in contact, but the letter in her coat (about getting revenge) isn't from Kay. Seems a bit, incomplete. Courtney lets us know that she was going to be in charge of Patricia Rolands defense. Things are gradually coming together.

Before she leaves Courtney gives us back Kays Yatagarasu promise journal, which predictably leads to her getting her memory back and reverting back to the original Kays attitude. Just when I was getting used to the nice version! But before Kay and Edgeworth can go out for celebratory burgers, Kay remembers something important: that on the day of the murder she was at Gourd Lake, and it was there where she saw red raincoat guy. At that moment, we hear a beeping in the storage room. Its a De Killer transceiver!

De Killer clues Edgeworth in to the presence of a mastermind behind this case and maybe the other cases too. (Disclosure: I definitely did not get the bonus present evidence question right about what suggested a mastermind. After a few guesses I find out its the victims letter. Oops)

Looks like all the cases have been related in some way (my bet is Zheng Fa), in a way that is sure to become clear in the final case. Thanks for reading this long post.

Next: Post-case discussion/questions on case 4.

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Leonhart4
06/06/21 9:32:54 PM
#134:


Yeah, Courtney's face turn was pretty good, even if you could see it coming from a mile away.

And yeah, Zak has worst dad on lockdown.

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SeabassDebeste
06/06/21 11:58:54 PM
#135:


the constant telegraphing of courtney's face turn made it kind if cringe-y to me

strap in. e2-5 is monster length and has some silliness and many phases. it's also so, so good.
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LeonhartFour
06/07/21 12:00:11 AM
#136:


yeah E2-5 doesn't mess around, it's not called The Grand Turnabout for nothing

(I think the first half kinda drags, but the second half makes it worth it)

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colliding
06/07/21 5:25:54 PM
#137:


OK, so time for the wrap-up post on "The Forgotten Turnabout."

Overall it's okay, but a clear step down from E2-3. Blaise being the culprit here is surprising only because I thought he was going to be the culprit in the next case. I know the point of AA isn't "figuring out who the murderer is" but "how was the murder committed" and "what are the emotional stakes of this crime." Here, the latter two are not particularly satisfying because much of it is being purposefully reserved for the next case. If not for the Kay memory loss subplot (pretty hackneyed even by AA standards) I probably would've been extremely bored.

I've already written about this, but I really do hate how AAI is structured sometimes. I just can't justify a guilty party willingly allowing themselves to get caught by continually engaging with Edgeworth, when at any given moment they could just say "see ya" or "shut up" and get away relatively easily. Blaise goes as far as to give Edgeworth the evidence back. The "this person is ego-maniacal and overconfident" excuse really only works once. At some point it's just bad writing.

Blaise is interesting enough. I'm sure he'll be back in the next case, as will Roland (maybe Gustavia too). I'll reserve final judgment I guess. I liked seeing Ema and Lotta again, even though Ema is just a gameplay mechanic at this point and the case might have been more interesting if Lotta had been a new character (then at least there might be an additional suspect). Bonnie and Karin had potential (would love for AA to actually develop a regular coroner/morgue tech character) but ended up just being a weird rehash of the Ben/Trilo gimmick.

Predictions:
Ray is bad/morally grey/has some connection to Zheng Fa. He's still my favorite of the original AAI2 characters, but I'm still a bit suspicious of him. I don't see any reason for the writers to keep him around otherwise! Maybe after Edgeworth died he embraced a more "ends justifies the means" mentality and is organizing the evidence black market. Or maybe he's here for comic relief and I'm over thinking it.

Courtney is clearly a lawful good type character who is trying to root out corruption in the prosecutor's office in her own way, but can't do it all on her own for some reason so she needs Edgeworth to do it. She's a female character in an AA game, so I'm sure I'll have to rescue her somehow.

I'm 100% sure Sebastian will have something of a "redemption arc" in which he accidentally ends up being competent and saves the day somehow.

Lastly, in addition to Roland, Blaise and Gustavia, Dogen, President of Zheng Fa, Knightley (flashback), and Gustavia's son will all appear.

I'll start Case 5 tonight and have a write-up tomorrow.

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SeabassDebeste
06/07/21 5:29:00 PM
#138:


i agree with literally everything that you've stated! the only surprise about E2-4 is that it wasn't the finale

i agree that amnesia is a really dumb plot device, but i think if there's any strength to the case then it's in its emotional hook - did you feel strongly about the edgeworth prosecutor path/his relationship with kay?
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LeonhartFour
06/07/21 5:34:29 PM
#139:


Yeah, E2-4 is fine, but like you, I wasn't a huge fan of how they used Blaise.

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colliding
06/07/21 5:39:40 PM
#140:


SeabassDebeste posted...


i agree that amnesia is a really dumb plot device, but i think if there's any strength to the case then it's in its emotional hook - did you feel strongly about the edgeworth prosecutor path/his relationship with kay?

For sure. There are two really good scenes in this case. The first is when Edgeworth gives up his badge, and the second is when he presents the Yatagarasu badge to Kay. Unfortunately, the first scene is undercut by the fact that it doesn't seem to have any actual effect on the narrative of the case. He gave up his badge, but he's still investigating and the PIC still want to have a hearing. They throw him in jail for twenty minutes but that's about it. The problem with the second one is that presenting the Yatagarasu badge only gets Kay to remember the cow doll. I honestly think the moment would've been better if Kay had gotten her memory back there instead of waiting until the end of the case.

You do raise a good point in that the Kay/Miles dynamic is helped by this case, I think. Kay has kind of felt "just there" for the entire game and so this reminds us of what she's all about. She starts to feel as more of a character than just "Edgeworth's Maya." If she gets developed further in Case 5 (which I imagine she will, at least to explain the Crane/Kay connection) then maybe she can move up my assistant rankings (she's actually pretty low in my list behind, well, everyone else).

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SSBM_Guy
06/07/21 6:44:24 PM
#141:


E2-4 is a really weird case. I have it pretty lowly. Courtneys face-turn and Edgeworth/Amnesiac Kay only goes so far. The actual murder is pretty blah and E2-4 feels like a weird set-up for E2-5, which...honestly is a lot of a case already.

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Paratroopa1
06/07/21 6:47:04 PM
#142:


Yeah, I don't like E2-4. The murder and characters aren't very interesting, and the Kay amnesia setup falls flat for me - in particular, the way the evidence on her was just planted and didn't mean anything. I think it would be interesting if the amnesia led to more of a setup where like, Kay did stuff but she doesn't remember, and the evidence she had on her did actually mean something, and you had to logic together Kay's actions that day and how they related to the murder. But there wasn't anything like that at all, Kay didn't do anything and she's just being accused of murder based on basically nothing.
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colliding
06/07/21 9:49:36 PM
#143:


I forgot to mention: I think my favorite part of the case was Franziska. Out of all the characters in AAI and this game, I think she fares the best (besides Edgeworth himself, I guess). I like the direction they decided to take her. At points she might veer too far into "tsundere little sis" archetype (that being said, I didn't mind her in E1-4 when that was definitely her entire character), and she definitely whips people too much, but besides that I like the idea of making her something of an international prosecutor. Here's hoping she remains relevant and competent in E2-5.

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colliding
06/09/21 11:29:49 AM
#144:




Time to begin E2-5: The Grand Turnabout

The intro to this case is maybe the weirdest one yet, as it turns out that the character who I kept thinking was 1-3 Cody is actually a new bratty kid, who also seems to be some sort of human/demon/cow kaiju. Thank you to my readers for not spoiling this for me by pointing out how wrong I was.

Case 5 picks up almost immediately after Case 4. Lotta, Edgeworth and Kay are leaving the Grand Tower, when Penny Nichols shows up, saying that theres yet another dead body. Defund the police, they obviously aren't doing shit anyway. We walk to a temporary film lot near the Grand Tower, where we see genuine kaiju footprints all over the place. We also see Agent Lang (absent since a brief cameo in case 2) standing over the body of the President of Zheng Fa, who Im just reminded is named Di-Jun Huang (a pun on mustard) (maybe?).

Seeing the kaiju prints reawakens Lotta's paranormal leanings, and she is quick to identify the cause of death: hes been stomped on by the "Mighty Moozilla." Even though there are a bunch of giant monster prints strewn about, this is not likely, but this gives Edgeworth a chance to remind himself (and me) that De Killer was originally hired to assassinate this dude. Given that we just found his walkie-talkie at the end of the last case, it would stand to reason that De Killer has succeeded in his contract. However, there's no calling card to be seen. Lang - who is really having a bad two weeks or so, having lost his team and his President - is quick to suspect Penny; but we convince him to investigate first.

But Lotta wont let go of her Moozilla theory. She claims to have seem him last night! Is this before or after you fainted? I forgot to mention this earlier, but maybe the most unbelievable aspect of E2-4 was the fact that nobody saw Lotta the entire time. She's not exactly known for being quiet! Lotta claims to have seen his giant eye in the blinds of the evidence room. Talking to Penny, we realize that the movie being shot is Moozilla vs. Gourdy, (out now in theaters, localized in the U.S. as Godzilla vs. Kong).

Meanwhile, Lang tells us about how his father was once a member of the Zheng Fa secret service and how protecting the President runs in the family. Oops. 12 years ago, the President cut off ties with the Lang clan. This is most likely a reference to whatever the phony letter from case 4 is talking about. Also, it does not go unnoticed that the last Moozilla movie was also 12 years ago, so lets just assume already that its all connected. Maybe there's a frozen corpse hidden in the Moozilla costume.

We examine the body, which is in its non-flabby form. Theres something yellow on his shirt (eww) and Moozillas horn lies next to his corpse. Some of the logic we gather here doesnt quite make sense. Edgeworth assumes that since the front gate was still chained up with the combination lock and the back gate was smashed in, the culprit has to be someone who didnt know the lock combo. Thats faulty logic Edgeworth. We also assume, from the dented fence and Moozillas horn, that the Moozilla head rolled off the roof onto the ground. Again, quite a leap! And then he surmises that the President was crushed by the Moozilla head! I mean... maybe... but okay fine, let's just go with it.

Next: Cow boy appears

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Leonhart4
06/09/21 11:33:56 AM
#145:


More Fall of the House of Lang

Such a good theme

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SeabassDebeste
06/09/21 12:06:45 PM
#146:


colliding posted...
The intro to this case is maybe the weirdest one yet, as it turns out that the character who I kept thinking was 1-3 Cody is actually a new bratty kid, who also seems to be some sort of human/demon/cow kaiju. Thank you to my readers for not spoiling this for me by pointing out how wrong I was.

i actually legit had no idea who you were talking about before up until this point, but this does seem to ring a bell now!
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Leonhart4
06/09/21 12:12:56 PM
#147:


I knew, but I felt it'd be better to let it play out.

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Paratroopa1
06/09/21 6:45:47 PM
#148:


I just want to gush about how much I love the localized graphics in this game. The Moozilla vs Gourdy pic is perfect and I really appreciate how they went the extra mile to make this seem as if it was an official localization - it's so seamless. "Mighty Moozilla" is a fantastic localization choice too.
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Leonhart4
06/09/21 7:08:15 PM
#149:


Yeah, they did a fantastic job with that stuff and went above and beyond probably what fans would have expected from a fan translation.

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colliding
06/09/21 10:12:00 PM
#150:


Agreed! This and "Piece of Cake" are really impressive. I honestly don't think an official translation at this point would be anywhere near as good.

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Paratroopa1
06/09/21 11:34:58 PM
#151:


I do still have a few issues with the translation - they didn't smooth out a lot of obvious japan-isms, there are a few jokes that weren't punched up that normally would be, and I think some of the name choices were less than stellar, but that said, it's pretty damn close to the genuine article, and they went above and beyond in their efforts.
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