Board 8 > Finally playing Edgeworth 2 (spoilers)

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colliding
05/13/21 7:28:49 PM
#52:


Leonhart4 posted...
Yeah, E2-2 is one of those instances where you know it has to be the culprit because the design lends itself to a breakdown.

I thought the killer overall was kind of lame though.

Really her saving grace for me is the fact that it was a spur of the moment thing, based on a false assumption that Knightley was one of Dogen's goons. This, in my opinion, gives her motive enough of a tragic backstory that I sympathize with her (slightly). Again, and maybe this is intentional, it reminds me of 2-3 and Acro. Which reminds me, we didn't really get a reaction from Regina, who has had yet another friend taken away from her due to them murdering someone.

I can definitely see how she's relatively weak throughout the case though. She really has nothing going for her until the very end.

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Raka_Putra
05/14/21 5:26:50 AM
#53:


I like E2-2's killer enough. Serviceable culprit.

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colliding
05/14/21 11:42:51 PM
#54:


I'm off visiting friends this weekend, so don't expect a E2-3 writeup any time soon.

In the meantime, if someone wants to summarize the Zheng Fa/Yatagarasu/Smuggling ring business from AAI for me, just in case it's important for the upcoming cases, I wouldn't be opposed.

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colliding
05/16/21 5:36:55 PM
#55:



No takers on the AAI recap (totally fine), so let's move on to E2-3: The Inherited Turnabout. It opens with a commercial/promo for an old television show: "Piece of Cake," a baking/dancing program for kids, starring the world's best baker, Jeff Master, and his assistant Kate Whatshername.

When I think of "memorable intro cinematics" in the AA series, I think of 1-4, 1-5, and 3-2 - intros that generate intrigue and excitement simultaneously, setting the stage without giving everything away. Add E2-3's intro to the top 5, cause I love it. I love that it has English voice acting, I love that the lyrics seem to match the song, I love the weird Lynchian combination of wholesome domestic cooking show and vaudevillian murder scenario. Bravo.

In the present day, Edgeworth and Ray Shields walk into a museum, where Ray tells Edgeworth to have a seat on his knee and listen to a story. A story about baking and intrigue, ice cream and murder! It's the IS-7 incident, the infamous case that led to Edgeworth's dad, Gregory (sometimes referred to in these write ups as "Gregsworth") facing off against Von Karma and getting him penalized, shattering his perfect record and giving old Manfred a motive for murder. This is a story that I never really thought needed to be told, but now that it is I'm glad.

Despite being the straightest of straight arrows, Gregsworth is also king, in his noir trenchcoat and fedora. He is stern but caring, serious and earnest. His perfectly average/normal character design works in his favor in that it positions him as someone who cares about his work and others more than himself. Young Ray is the perfect assistant for him; it's nice to finally have a full-time male assistant. He's funny when he needs to be and never gets annoying, and his paper eating animation is top notch.

In this case our defendant is Jeff Master, an uncanny amalgamation of Paul Hollywood and Chad from Bleach.He doesn't give us too many details about the crime; all we need to know now is if he is guilty or not. He says he is innocent, and Gregory, being a stalwart defense attorney, believes in his client's innocence. He sings Gregsworth and Ray a little song in the detention center. There's a subtle sense of tragedy throughout this entire case, because we as the player know that this doesn't end well for Master or Gregory. This really helps moments like this shine.

The murder, coincidentally enough, takes place in the exact same venue that Miles and old Ray find themselves in the present day. What connections exist between the past and present? Will Miles be able to find out the truth of what happened 18 years ago? How will this experience push or pull him toward or away from the prosecutorial path? Let's find out!

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LeonhartFour
05/16/21 5:41:15 PM
#56:


colliding posted...
In the meantime, if someone wants to summarize the Zheng Fa/Yatagarasu/Smuggling ring business from AAI for me, just in case it's important for the upcoming cases, I wouldn't be opposed.

oh sorry, didn't see this, I'll try to sum it up as best I can, but it's been while since I last played AAI1

The smuggling ring was circulating fake Zheng Fa money throughout the country and destroyed their economy. Badd and Kay's dad started investigating them, but they got frustrated with the limitations of the law, so they became the Yatagarasu. Then the smuggling ring sent Calisto Yew as a mole into their group to keep them from catching them. Then she had to kill Kay's dad when he was on the verge of exposing them.

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colliding
05/16/21 7:15:51 PM
#57:


LeonhartFour posted...
oh sorry, didn't see this, I'll try to sum it up as best I can, but it's been while since I last played AAI1

The smuggling ring was circulating fake Zheng Fa money throughout the country and destroyed their economy. Badd and Kay's dad started investigating them, but they got frustrated with the limitations of the law, so they became the Yatagarasu. Then the smuggling ring sent Calisto Yew as a mole into their group to keep them from catching them. Then she had to kill Kay's dad when he was on the verge of exposing them.

Thanks for this! I didn't want to read the wiki just in case I got blind spoiled by something in AAI2 (which has happened to me before, notably on Trails wikis).

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colliding
05/17/21 12:28:08 PM
#58:


More Inherited Turnabout.

Still in the past with Gregory and Ray. Master is accused of murdering Isaac Dover, a contestant in a competition to find the worlds best dessert maker. The body was discovered by Masters partner, Kate Harrison(? - I checked - it's Hannah). We meet her as we enter Masters mansion. Shes bright and bubbly and not immediately suspicious.

Of course, this is Ace Attorney, and a body can no longer just be found on the ground or in a closet. No, Dovers body is found inside Masters room, inside a chocolate treasure chest, smashed open by a chocolate ship. This might seem unbelievable but let me tell you, I have SEEN SOME THINGS on Great British Bake Off that put this within the realm of believability.

Its fitting that such a candy-focused murder scene features the return of everyones favorite character from Edgeworth 1: Detective Badd. Badds as good as ever here, with his taciturn and hard boiled demeanor hiding a person as earnest and reliable as Gumshoe. He doesnt want us investigating at first, but he eventually relents, admitting he also doesnt like the prosecutor (that would be Von Karma for those playing along at home).

Badd's got some good banter with the serious Gregory and the eager Ray. We notice that someones been messing with the decorations and leaving fingerprints around the crime scene. We notice that the part of the chest with the victims blood stain is missing. We notice a candy-maker, another contestant named *checks notes* Dane Gustavia. In my notes for this case, I put him down as "candyman" because he is initially quite forgettable, aside from his the sight gag of him creating different animals based on the personalities of our motley investigation crew. It becomes obvious that the major players in this case are characterized by particular dessert types: This guys candy, Master is chocolate, Dover was sherbert, and another person, Delicia Crepes, is cream. That last one's pun is pretty obvious, and I guess Isaac Dover is "ice" and "Dove bar," but I don't get Dane's pun or Master's, unless it's simply that he's the master of chocolate.

Eventually, the man, the myth, the legend Manfred Von Karma himself shows up and throws his weight around.He doesn't want us investigating, but we convince him to let us investigate Delicia's room, given that her fingerprints are all over the crime scene.

So far, the case is doing a really great job of adding to, rather than detracting from, the mythos of 1-4 rather than a clumsy retcon, this actually feels important and improves upon the DL-6 incident. I'm really a fan of the dynamic between Badd and Von Karma; it goes to show that even at the height of his powers, no one really liked him, not even his "own side." As far as Gregory goes, I already felt bad for Edgeworth before, but now that I've met his father and seen what a thoughtful dad he is, the events of 1-4 hit even harder. Bravo to the team, seriously. This case is an accomplishment so far.

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Leonhart4
05/17/21 12:43:03 PM
#59:


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SeabassDebeste
05/17/21 1:10:06 PM
#60:


it bothers me that it's sherbet and not sherbert

i really like both the gregory parts and the miles parts of e2-3. due to gregory's nature, it's one of the most deliberately paced cases in the series - not just long, but kind of meandering without urgency (like in 6-5, for example) - but it comes together really beautifully.

the singing is fantastic in this case too
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Paratroopa1
05/17/21 8:02:18 PM
#61:


Wait, did characters' names change since the last time I played this?
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LeonhartFour
05/17/21 8:03:43 PM
#62:


Paratroopa1 posted...
Wait, did characters' names change since the last time I played this?

as far as I know it's still the same but I guess he keeps forgetting Katherine's last name and now it's a running gag

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Paratroopa1
05/17/21 8:05:12 PM
#63:


I thought it was a running gag too but then he said Delicia Crepes and I felt like I was being gaslit into having remember the names of every cast member of E2-3 wrong somehow
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colliding
05/18/21 9:29:53 AM
#64:


Paratroopa1 posted...
I thought it was a running gag too but then he said Delicia Crepes and I felt like I was being gaslit into having remember the names of every cast member of E2-3 wrong somehow

Sorry for the unintentional gaslighting. Kate is a running gag, but I legitimately mis-remembered Delicia's last name as "Crepes" instead of "Scones" for some really weird reason. Maybe I was hungry for crepes.

Speaking of Delicia, we meet her when we investigate her room. She has made a cream covered castle; not quite as impressive as a chocolate pirate ship with a corpse inside. As for Delicia herself, the spectre of bad character design rears its ugly head again. I try to be fair and think, well if this were a numbered Ace Attorney and we were just looking at her from the front rather than a side view, would she still be bad? The answer is yes, friends, this is a bad character design. This isnt an AA character - this is a literal happy meal toy.

Theres a bunch of incriminating evidence in Delicias room: theres fake desserts for one. Theres a bloody rock salt lamp too. Finally, theres a fancy electric blanket/light-up towel exactly like the one found on the body. This all seems to imply that Delicia may well be a pint-sized suspect. At the very least, shes a fake baker and is here for some other purpose.

Details are sketchy at this point: I blocked out much of this because I hate Delicia. Eventually, we all decide to look at Dovers exhibit as a possible crime scene, only for the shocking reveal: his exhibit has all been melted away! Even Von Karma is surprised by this.

Back in the present, Ray pauses his story and probably needs a glass of water. Edgeworth, probably bored from standing for an hour or so, encourages him to get the show on the road. What was once Master's mansion is now the Zodiac Art Museum - so we are now officially hunting the Zodiac Killer. The exhibit from 18 years ago has been recreated in four rooms, though there is an odd mix-up with the Autumn and Winter rooms seemingly being out of seasonal order.

History repeats itself and we meet Kate Hannah at the very beginning of our investigation. She looks older but is otherwise the same. Shes as cheerful as ever; she wasnt suspicious back then, but the relatively small amount of exposure were getting with her leads me to believe she has some role in the case.

Next: Cameos!


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Leonhart4
05/18/21 10:37:16 AM
#65:


Delicia has an odd design, but I like her a lot as a character.

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SeabassDebeste
05/18/21 11:08:27 AM
#66:


yeah i couldn't get over delicia's appearance, yeesh. not as outwardly gross as spark brushel, but still just uncomfortable
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colliding
05/18/21 9:33:52 PM
#67:


This game's really had some UGLY characters so far. Delicia, Simon, the President of Zheng Fa. Even Debeste is kind of weird looking (he looks fine in his official art; I'm just criticizing his in-game art). I don't really know how to describe it except cheap-looking. This was an issue in AAI too. It's like they got the established character designers to do the returning characters, Kay, Badd, Lang, and Courtney, and then asked the interns to do the rest of the cast.

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SeabassDebeste
05/18/21 11:11:51 PM
#68:


i think the zheng fa president isn't uglier than like will powers or wendy oldbag. actually like his design. simon is a funny-looking dude but is of the right look i think.
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LeonhartFour
05/18/21 11:34:52 PM
#69:


I think part of it is that the OT has a pretty distinct, semi-realistic artstyle, and AAI deviates from that in weird ways at times. I distinctly remember the first time I saw Cammy Meele in AAI1 and not liking how "off" she looked.

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SSBM_Guy
05/19/21 12:16:44 AM
#70:


The worst is always Mack Rell. Thats straight up a different artist.

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/aceattorney/images/1/17/Mackrelpor.png

AAI2 actually has some great designs! I particularly like Courtney and the E2-3 characters (outside of Scones)

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colliding
05/19/21 8:33:46 AM
#71:


Inside the Winter exhibit, I am delighted to recognize Ron Delite and mediocre waifu (according to Anagram) Desiree Delite. At this point, I thought for sure this case was going to develop in a completely different way. I predicted some Mask DeMasque hijinks to steal the Zodiac statues. I don't know why I thought that, because Ronnie the Bear's already been proven innocent of being Masque DeMasque! And I must disagree with Anagram's assessment of Desiree - she's beautiful, loyal, and rides a motorcycle - what's not to love?

And is that Cody? From 1-3? He cryptically mentions that he can't believe "she" quit and is working here now. I guess he's talking about Kate, but this goes against his established character trait of only caring about the Steel Samurai. Maybe this isn't Cody but it looks like him. I guess if it were Cody, he would recognize Edgeworth. So who is this guy? A new character? Regardless, it's cool to recognize these fan service sprites.

Edgeworth and Ray piddle around the scene for a bit. Theres a Gemini and a Taurus statue, as well as two slabs that dont feature a zodiac animal, but just some star patterns. But it's really cold in here, so we leave. Lo and behold, who do we see when we emerge from the Winter room but one Laurice Deauxnim, child book artist extraordinaire, shocked and agog.

I saw something horrible again.

Of course. I am still not sick of Larry. The closest Ive come to being sick of Larry is E1-5, and thats more due to other characters and that cases overall sludge-like pacing issues than him as a character. I even like him in 6-6 (an underrated case, I think).Theres a funny logic chess bit here where Larry is painfully easy to read (like you choose to "wait and see" every chance for the first piece, and then you choose the top choice every chance after that). Edgeworth says what a waste of time. Uhhh yeah! Just like logic chess itself! It's not so bad, but it still feels kind of corny.

So what happened was, that guy from the IS-7 incident, the Candyman (seriously, is "Dane" supposed to be a pun on like sugar cane?), he comes barrelling out of the Autumn room huffing poison gas. Larry sees him, but he also sees something behind him. Luckily for us, he drew a sketch of it. Imagine my disappointment when the sketch actually isnt bad? Is Larry actually improving? Did the writers seriously just skip an opportunity to dunk on Larry with another bad art gag? Boo!

There's a couple funny bits here. When I present the sketch of what turns out to be the Pisces statue to Kay, she does remark that it is fishy which is pretty good assistant banter. Then Larry and Ray bond over the fact that they're both creepy pervs. When is cancel culture going to come for Laurice Deauxnim?

Gumshoe gives us the okay to enter once the gas has dissipated. The Autumn room looks and feels identical to the Winter room. At first I suspect weird haunted mansion room switch mechanisms, but apparently its just some skillful placing of illuminated fabric to make the Pisces statue look like Gemini and Capricorn look like Taurus. But for what purpose?

Next: Delicious Drugs.

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SeabassDebeste
05/19/21 9:54:59 AM
#72:


yeah, larry in e2-3 is good imo

the series's insistence on treating being a perv as a lovable "oh you" trait is possibly its worst aspect
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Leonhart4
05/19/21 11:17:11 AM
#73:


What's not to love about Desiree is that you'll be bankrupt within a week

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colliding
05/19/21 9:11:13 PM
#74:


SeabassDebeste posted...
yeah, larry in e2-3 is good imo

the series's insistence on treating being a perv as a lovable "oh you" trait is possibly its worst aspect

Case in point, Courtney and Debeste predictably show up post-gassing and Larry immediately falls enamored with the beautiful judge. I'm getting a little tired of Courtney continually threatening Edgeworth with disbarment and then not doing anything. I predict it's a long-con and Courtney actually needs Edgeworth for her own goals separate from the PIC. It's the only thing that makes sense! Courtney and Debeste have got "foes turned friends" written all over them.

At this point I actually do start feeling a bit bad for Debeste, because he clearly has some kind of learning disability. He throws out some crazy arguments about the poisoning which are easily refuted, and it does feel a bit like picking on a 5-year old for believing in Santa Claus.

Theres poison on the Pisces statue, a mix of Normallium and Fatallium. Gotta love these Ace Attorney names. It just so happens that Delicia Crepes nee Scones is also here, and shes a pharmacist, so she worked up a cure for the poison that probably saved old candy mans life. Ray says what we're all thinking - boy it sure is WILD how everyone from 18 years ago is back at the same time as the exhibit from 18 years ago is being recreated. Seems like a setup to me too Ray.

So we once again question Delicia, except 18 years later now, and she is once again bad (Yessie) and annoying (Yessie). Candyman heated up the lid of the Pisces statue which caused the chemical reaction. Why would he be trying to get into the Pisces statue? Delicia is the most obvious suspect for the poison, except she reported hers missing a week ago. It also doesnt really make much sense for her to commit an obvious crime that points to her so directly. The only other real person of interest is Kate, but she just doesn't seem capable of murder.

Once we leave the Autumn room, chaos erupts. Kay finds a dead body in the atriums fountain and at the same time, Gumshoe reports that the Winter exhibit has melted just like 18 years ago. At this point I really have no idea who the culprit is or what the secret of the case is, so this is a big improvement over the last one!

Next: Back to the Past

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Anagram
05/19/21 9:59:17 PM
#75:


colliding posted...
I am delighted to recognize Ron Delite and mediocre waifu (according to Anagram) Desiree Delite
I was shocked and very happy when they showed up.

colliding posted...
And I must disagree with Anagram's assessment of Desiree - she's beautiful, loyal, and rides a motorcycle - what's not to love?

Leonhart4 posted...
What's not to love about Desiree is that you'll be bankrupt within a week


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SeabassDebeste
05/19/21 11:43:25 PM
#76:


colliding posted...
At this point I really have no idea who the culprit is or what the secret of the case is, so this is a big improvement over the last one!

yessss

i love the drama and the cliffhanger of it all!
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colliding
05/20/21 9:29:31 AM
#77:


Back in the past, Von Karma has kicked us out of Dovers room, where the statues have melted. Ray is a bit distraught, so Gregory gives an inspirational speech about being hope for those who have made mistakes, and Ray admits he has much to learn. Kate H. agrees to help as much as possible, even offering chocolate to the group. Its too sweet for Gregory but Ray likes it just fine. She gives us her backstory: Kate was taken in as a young girl by Master Jeff, and works with him to make it up to him.

There is then some time spent on a new piece of evidence: a polaroid camera. The day of the murder, Master Jeff was supposed to photograph every exhibit, but he ran out of film early because Kate ended up taking around 14 photos of Dover's exhibit. Because Dover, it turns out, isnt actually Dover, but the mysterious sculptor Pierre Hoquet (appears okay?). While fan-girling over the exhibit, Kate accidentally unplugs the A/C and melts it. There's a lot of mysteries at once: why is Kate such a fan of Hoquet? Why is Hoquet hiding his identity? Why is the lyre salty? (That one was from Delicia).

Enter Von Karma. He shuts down the investigation for the day. Not being able to really do anything else, Gregory and Ray go out for hamburgers.

The next morning, we meet Kate and Badd in the detention center. Shockingly, Master Jeff has been Rean Schwarzered, and his hair has turned white due to Von Karmas all-night long interrogation session. Some of Kate's chocolate cheers him right up, but his hair is still white. Feeling a bit more energized, Master tells us some interesting facts: Gustavia and Dovers desserts tasted similar, and he enjoyed the taste of Dovers supposedly salty lyre. Master surmises that he cant taste salt disease. Even weirder, he says he has a recipe for a cure at his mansion. Huh - a bit contrived, but let's see how this plays out.

Master tells Kate to live for herself, rather than for him, which causes her great distress. She runs out of the room. Wow, what a neat parallel to Miless situation, huh.

Next: the Origins of Coldkiller X

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Leonhart4
05/20/21 10:13:50 AM
#78:


They really make you feel for Master's plight

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colliding
05/20/21 7:01:23 PM
#79:


In terms of "real time" I'm in the middle of Case 4 now, so I'm going to try and catch up on these write ups before I start forgetting details. I keep waiting for the lame filler case and it apparently never comes in this game, so that's something.

After we visit Master, we return to the mansion, where Von Karma's pretty much made investigating impossible. We talk to Kate, whos still feeling down from what Master said earlier. A bunch of reveals happen all at once: there's a son of Candyman, the "Angel's Recipe" is actually a book of prescription medicines that haven't been released to the public yet (one of them being the cure for "can't taste salt" disease), Master is the sole heir to the conglomerate that makes Coldkiller X, Delicia is a plant from said conglomerate, and it is likely that Candyman (okay, I'm just going to start calling him Gustavia now that he's important to the case) and Dover/Hoquet and he were probably working together.

Von Karma once again shows up to get in our way. To my utter delight, he gives one of the shortest testimonies of the series (two text boxes!) Despite his taciturn defenses, Gregory successfully shows that Dover and Gustavia were working together through the day before the finals, and that Dovers sherbet was prepared a day in advance. Von Karma springs a trap on us in our cross-examination and reveals Gustavias reason for entering Dovers room: to steal a photo of he and Dover and their sons.

(Interesting side note: for the longest time I thought that there was going to be some switcheroo type deal in the picture with the sons, where the kid standing in front of Dover is actually Gustavia's kid and vice versa. Nothing eventually came of this (yet?), but if you look at the image there are clues there).

Once Von Karma leaves, we logic our way into the truth about the situation: theres no autopsy report, the bloodstained chocolate is gone, but there is blood in the water is there actually a body? Is Von Karma forging a crime scene?

What follows is one of the best scenes in the entire AA series, where Gregory confronts Von Karma and accuses him of forging evidence. The courage Gregory shows here is really inspiring (you can see a lot of Miles in there) and I admit I got chills a few times! Von Karma storms off, saying that hell see us in court. Gregory and Badd prepare a trump card for the trial - which ends up being a recording of Von Karma's coerced interrogation of Master.

Of course, as we all know, Gregsworth ultimately fails in acquitting Master. After a year of trial, Master succumbs to Von Karma's questioning and confesses. Von Karma threatens to charge Kate with murder, even though the body was never found. The trump card does work in getting Von Karma a penalty and forcing the detective in charge, Rip Lacer (no thought necessary for this pun) to step down from his position. Strangely enough though, Master is found "guilty of being an accomplice" - not actually "guilty of murder."

Back in the present, Ray apologizes for not being there for Gregory during the DL-6 case, and he apologizes for holding a grudge against Miles. Oh man. Our boy Ray's gonna get murdered isn't he (don't answer that)?

Next: Kate starts acting "sketchy"

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MrSmartGuy
05/20/21 7:10:39 PM
#80:


There is no lame filler case. If anything, it was the jail one.

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Leonhart4
05/20/21 7:59:07 PM
#81:


Gregory vs. Von Karma was so great. I hoped for playable Gregory for a really long time and E2-3 delivered.

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Anagram
05/20/21 8:31:33 PM
#82:


I really like how Edgeworth Sr.s talking animation is him moving his hand up and down. I dont know why that stood out to me.

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SeabassDebeste
05/20/21 9:07:01 PM
#83:


i want live reactions too!

colliding posted...
What follows is one of the best scenes in the entire AA series, where Gregory confronts Von Karma and accuses him of forging evidence. The courage Gregory shows here is really inspiring (you can see a lot of Miles in there) and I admit I got chills a few times!

also yes. gregory is just so atticus-like here. just the simple rage at the injustice of it all.
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colliding
05/21/21 10:54:11 AM
#84:




So I got stuck in this next part and I'm still salty as a lyre about it. After we find Dover's body in the present, Debeste and Courtney let us investigate the fountain atrium. This investigation takes a while, because it takes me too long to realize that some tea's been spilled on the ground (this isn't the reason I got stuck though... that's coming up). Laurice and Kate H. are both acting suspicious. It doesn't take much to figure out that Larry's acting weird cause he fucked up somehow - indeed, he spilled the tea, breaking a teapot in the process. To show he's sorry (? - I wish I had Larry's mind sometimes) he shows us this sketch he did of this case's lovely women. He insists that Delicia isn't one of them though - you did draw her Larry. Methinks you dost protest too much.

Now to figure out why Kate is acting weird. Here's where I got stuck. I've mentioned before that I have problems with the "Deduce" mechanic, because it wants you to choose the particular contradiction in a scene when there are multiple ways of conceptualizing it in your brain. Obviously Larry's sketch is the right evidence to present, but where on the tea cart am I supposed to "deduce it from?" I kept clicking on top of the cart because there's chocolates on it. Or I can click on the teapot because it's not there on the picture. I got desperate a few times and tried submitting the "lift cart" as evidence instead of the sketch. Turns out, the game wants you to compare the sketch to the "side" of the cart - the tablecloth ostensibly - because the big contradiction here is supposed to be that Larry's sketch has a "light blue" tablecloth and not a white one. This is maybe my fault for playing on desume on a pretty small screen, but I honestly could not even tell the difference. But still, why do I have to compare it to the "side" of the cart? I knew the right evidence? Anyway, this ate up a good half of my health bar.

From the investigation we learn:
1) Kate bought the mansion recently
2) The teapot probably contained normallium
3) The cloth and the body are from 18 years ago, so the exhibits probably are too
4) Kate was doing a lot of moving around with tea carts

This all makes it pretty obvious that Kate moved the body in the present as some way to get revenge on the true culprit; I couldn't quite figure out what she was doing in the past until she admits that she just stole the statues in the past because of her love of Pierre Hoquet, not knowing that the dead body was actually in one of them (how'd it get from the chocolate ship to here though)?

Kate's present plan is actually pretty good: 18 years later she buys back the mansion and finds the exhibits/body still in cold storage. She puts on the art exhibit to lure the murderer back - she changes the rooms and disguises the statues to set a trap for the real killer, who is the only other person who would know where the body was. She puts poison gas in the trap and voila, you've caught yourself a killer. Though it does kind of make you an attempted murderer.

Next: finale

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SeabassDebeste
05/21/21 10:57:42 AM
#85:


kate's fan animation is so good
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colliding
05/21/21 11:01:59 AM
#86:


SeabassDebeste posted...
kate's fan animation is so good



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SeabassDebeste
05/21/21 11:38:07 AM
#87:


not that fan...!
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Leonhart4
05/21/21 3:54:23 PM
#88:


Yeah, I remember getting stuck on the tablecloth, too.

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colliding
05/22/21 6:09:46 PM
#89:


The Inherited Turnabout: Endgame

I didn't realize it until this game, but Edgeworth is Luke Skywalker. Edgeworth wants to move to accuse Gustavia of the murder from 18 years ago, while Courtney says we need to hurry and arrest Kate for the poisoning. Edgeworth brings up that the P.I.C is partly at fault for letting Von Karma forge evidence all these years, and Courtney responds that she "sees fragments of Von Karma in him." Edgeworth is perpetually wrapped in this inner conflict between these two parental figures, Gregory and Von Karma, which parallels the different philosophies behind defense attorneys and prosecutors. Only a sith deals in perfect cases.

Debeste shows up with "the best" news: Gustavias up and walking around. We question him, but theres no evidence directly linking him to the murder; just that he set off the trap today. So theres a cool logic segment here where Edgeworth reviews the facts and leaves it up to us to connect them. I like these sections; I feel like they were also in AAI. The logic storm allows us to surmise that Gustavia couldve been taking pictures of the Angels Recipe and killed Dover while everyone else was doing afternoon tea.

We finish off Gustavia with a logic chess, which is interesting. Like you all said, its a little more difficult, but still pretty easy to navigate. Turns out Gustavia also has the no-taste disease and used his son to get this far. Just when I think he's kind of an okay person, he reveals that he abandoned his boy once he could taste again! Gumshoe (who has been absent for what seems like a LONG time, shows up with the blood test results. Its actually Gustavias blood. In a gross reveal, it turns out that part of the murder weapon and Gustavias blood is mixed into the lyre (confirming that Delicia is an ageless vampiric daywalker). Gustavia hid the body in the chest and planned to pin it on Delicia, but thanks to Delicia being a glutton, the body was discovered early, casting suspicion on Master.

I don't really know if I'm a fan of the climactic moment in this case coming down to a ticky tacky nuanced analysis of the law behind the statute of limitations. To be honest, Gustavia was a bit underwhelming compared to the earlier Kate cross examination and Gregory confronting Von Karma. However, I did get some big chills when Edgeworth threw Courtney's trademark "overruled" back at her after her not guilty verdict.

After Gustavia is arrested, Ray promises to get a not guilty verdict for Kate which seems a bit weird/unethical. I mean, you were here too, Ray, you know damn well she's guilty. I think what he should have said was "I'll get the charges reduced" or something. Courtney leaves, but not before warning Edgeworth that the PIC is coming for him. At the same time, Debeste questions why Edgeworth does what he does. There seems to be meaningful character development for them both. But not for Larry, who has been here the whole time not paying attention.

There's a lovely scene in the detention center, where Master is basically exonerated. It's his turn to wait for Kate now. Hopefully Ray does his job and he doesn't have to wait another 18 years! Once again, the case ends with Miles thinking carefully about his path, which is somewhat between defense attorney and prosecutor. People and the law both grow, but what happens when this growth creates contradictions and problems in the law? Actually... a pretty thoughtful question for an AA game.

The game leaves us with Ray talking to Gregory about the case while looking over two pictures: one of the past and one of the present. Ray's definitely going to die, isn't he? (Once again, don't answer that).

Next: A break of a couple days, then some more thoughts about E2-3 before moving into case 4. In the meantime, what are your thoughts on "The Inherited Turnabout?" Completely obliterates the "case 3 is bad" curse, huh? I think I might still like 5-3 more, and people can certainly make a case for 6-3 as well.

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SeabassDebeste
05/22/21 6:56:44 PM
#90:


i love e2-3. that said case 3s are traditionally super strong, not weak, imo. 2-3 and 4-3 are bad, but only those.
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Leonhart4
05/22/21 7:05:31 PM
#91:


E2-3 is probably my favorite non-epic case.

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Paratroopa1
05/22/21 7:09:17 PM
#92:


E2-3 is great. It has some small pacing issues as the Investigations games tend to, but I think it's great that it actually builds upon the lore of the world instead of just being a completely contained side-story - I think it's really just hilarious to have the added context to AA1 of "when Gregory Edgeworth met Manfred von Karma for the first time, von Karma was storming out of a giant dessert castle." The fact that this case has actual stakes for Edgeworth in a way that AAI games have previously failed to and that it actually gives him character development makes it wonderful.
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Leonhart4
05/22/21 7:11:03 PM
#93:


Oh yeah, that was one of the most impressive things E2-3 does. Edgeworth isn't an emotional guy, but they managed to give him a case with real emotional and personal stakes.

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Paratroopa1
05/22/21 7:14:34 PM
#94:


My biggest complaint about AAI1 is that it doesn't feel like it has any reason to be Edgeworth specifically - you could replace Edgeworth with Phoenix and the game wouldn't be any different at all aside from a few of the particulars like the location of E1-1, Edgeworth really doesn't have a huge stake in any of it and he doesn't really change how the story goes at all, aside from arguably E1-4 I guess. AAI2 completely changes that - it is specifically an Edgeworth story and nobody else.
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Anagram
05/22/21 7:52:17 PM
#95:


I dont know, para. Phoenix probably couldnt have put together that Key + Lock = Open Lock.

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Leonhart4
05/22/21 7:56:38 PM
#96:


Paratroopa1 posted...
My biggest complaint about AAI1 is that it doesn't feel like it has any reason to be Edgeworth specifically - you could replace Edgeworth with Phoenix and the game wouldn't be any different at all aside from a few of the particulars like the location of E1-1, Edgeworth really doesn't have a huge stake in any of it and he doesn't really change how the story goes at all, aside from arguably E1-4 I guess. AAI2 completely changes that - it is specifically an Edgeworth story and nobody else.

And even E1-4 feels like it's meant to be personal for Kay, not as much Edgeworth. I have my own issues with E1-4 in terms of past Edgeworth's characterization, too, so I'm generally not a big fan of that case.

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SeabassDebeste
05/22/21 7:58:49 PM
#97:


yeah, AAI1 mostly just tests out a format and says "hey you guys like edgeworth, right?"

AAI2 actually gives edgeworth some cool opponents and some interesting stakes. i'm not sure every personal stakes beat hits since you kinda know nothing that dramatic happens in a gaiden series, but it just does everything better than AAI1

well other than music i guess
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LordoftheMorons
05/22/21 8:44:14 PM
#98:


E2-3 is probably a top 5 case for me. Definitely the best case 3 (and the best case in AAI2, imo).

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colliding
05/22/21 10:36:15 PM
#99:


Paratroopa1 posted...
My biggest complaint about AAI1 is that it doesn't feel like it has any reason to be Edgeworth specifically - you could replace Edgeworth with Phoenix and the game wouldn't be any different at all aside from a few of the particulars like the location of E1-1, Edgeworth really doesn't have a huge stake in any of it and he doesn't really change how the story goes at all, aside from arguably E1-4 I guess. AAI2 completely changes that - it is specifically an Edgeworth story and nobody else.

Agreed on everything here.

SeabassDebeste posted...
i love e2-3. that said case 3s are traditionally super strong, not weak, imo. 2-3 and 4-3 are bad, but only those.

I agree that 1-3 and 3-3 aren't bad, but they definitely feel like "lulls" compared to the rest of the game. The pacing of this game (and really all the games post-Takumi) is that there's more of a slow build-up of story throughout all of the cases, rather than including obvious filler cases (6-4 being an exception, I guess). The first AAI tried to do this but failed (mostly because the first three cases are all kind of bland/forgettable).

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colliding
05/24/21 7:08:22 PM
#100:


Some more final random thoughts on E2-3:

  1. The game is doing a really nice job developing themes, notably fatherhood, but also the idea of mental/logic chess. It actually is quite reminiscent of the first series of Cumberbatch Sherlock, where the audience is invested in not only solving the mystery but trying to understand the minds of super-smart weirdos. This is lacking in AAI, but present here, where Edgeworth has much more of an... edge... to him in much of his dialogue.
  2. There's been two cases now where actually catching the murderer has felt significantly less exciting than figuring out the case. It was a big problem in E2-2, because this happened early and the case doesn't give you much to do. At least in this one, the case has lots for you to figure out.
  3. This case hits the sweet spot (no pun intended) in terms of complexity. It could have been much more complicated: we could have visited the other rooms, we could have had more defiant witnesses, there could have been a Little Thief section. Not having any of this is actually a good decision, as AAI already suffers from too much padding/pace issues.
  4. In terms of Edgeworth 2 original characters, the ranking currently sits at:
Ray > Gregory > Courtney > Sebastian > Knightley > Kate > Master > Dogen > (the rest) > Simon

Onward to case 4!

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colliding
05/25/21 6:31:41 PM
#101:




Case 4: The Forgotten Turnabout

The game simply refuses to let up the gas, as this case opens with Kay Faraday being pushed off a building and dying. Wow! Game Over! Bad Ending!

The next morning, Edgeworth and Gumshoe are chilling in the former's office, just waiting for their hearing with the PIC. Gumshoe is slightly worried, while Edgeworth is characteristically chill. Suddenly, a nurse appears - her name is Karin Jenson, and her main character trait is she loves to give injections. This is a weird anime trope that I've seen a few times now - cute girl with a big syringe. I don't get it! Karin is escorting an amnesiac patient who had Edgeworth's business card on her.

Of course it's Kay, not dead thankfully. She's wrapped up like a mummy, her hair is down, and all around she looks and acts like a completely different person. I'm wary of the fake-out at first - that the game only wants us to think that this is Kay - but it becomes clear that this is in fact Kay when the nurse shows us her clothes and the Yatagarasu badge. She also had a bunch of other junk on her: a Jammin Ninja mask, a corsage, a ticket stub, and a letter about recovering a memory.

The ticket stub is a clue to go visit a place called the Grand Tower. Outside we see: Cody again? This time I really think it is Cody, because he's joined by someone who does look an awful lot like Penny Nichols in sprite form. I can't remember if this is the same Cody who was maybe in E2-3. They're also filming a movie here, which is another clear hint that this is the 1-3 gang. But again, they don't seem to recognize Edgeworth so... maybe I'm overthinking it. Anyway, it's not important.

Up on the roof, we have a brief conversation with Kay about what she remembers: standing under the cherry tree, a person in a red raincoat approaching them, pushing her off the building... and that's it. Kay starts to freak out. Just at that minute, we're interrupted by a body discovery announcement, Danganronpa style. Someone's been murdered, and all we know about them is that they're a girl named Kay! All right, you got me, Case 4: now I'm hooked.

Next: Whippity-whip trips

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