Board 8 > Stock Topic 24

(+) Yeah! (+)

W...whose going to spend 80 dollars to make 700 in two years you mean? <_<.

That's a pretty good investment! That's 800 to 7000

Also no.

I bought a 20th anniversary ETB for 40 dollars, it's now 800. I bought an XY Evolutions booster box for 115, they go for 700 now.

It's basically just spend it, forget it, and then go 'neat'

If these were 'stocks' you'd be very happy with this growth =P. Just need a place to put them.

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But are people able to buy such large quantities? Or are there only a few packs here and there to get in the first place, I mean

It seems like once you get it going, you create a ladder where you always have something from a couple years ago that you're selling.

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If there were bunches and bunches of $80 sets that would later go for even like $100, I would be into that. But Im saying Id want to buy like $10k worth.

Menji posted...

It seems like once you get it going, you create a ladder where you always have something from a couple years ago that you're selling.

Yeah there's always something to be selling! And also stuff to be holding. It's made me a shit ton of money.

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Sunroof posted...

If there were bunches and bunches of $80 sets that would later go for even like $100, I would be into that. But Im saying Id want to buy like $10k worth.

Easy, here's what you do my man.

You buy elite trainer boxes when they are MSRP for 40 or 50 dollars. In 2-3 years they will be worth double at least. ETBs are always a win.

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Are there enough to buy $10k minimum worth?

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Pokemon-TCG-Sword-Shield-3-5-Champions-Path-Elite-Trainer-Box/463291638

Did I find one?!

https://i.redd.it/wu2un6hrsfl61.jpg

If you buy from a distributor yes

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Sunroof posted...

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Pokemon-TCG-Sword-Shield-3-5-Champions-Path-Elite-Trainer-Box/463291638

Did I find one?!

That's over priced but an example. Came out late last year and I bought it for 45 each. Now already double haha.

Look for battle style etbs. Comes out this month.

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Whats a Pokmon distributor link, how do I find them?

You have to have a contact usually. I usually go on big websites and email their sales team personally.

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Too much work!

It's less work than freaking about stocks all day as someone who has done both. But fair enough, more for Chris.

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What if I give you $50k, and in two years you give me $90k and you keep whatever other profit is leftover ......

I would take that in a heart beat because I know exactly what I would buy. I would buy a diverse collection of etbs as well as hunt down singles that are psa 10 candidates. 0 doubt I could get us both a nice profit from that.

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The only thing stopping me from doing it is the anonymity of the internet

Man my board 8 reputation is probably better collateral than some banks after 2008.

I just wish you had invested in my last year. I know why you didn't but pokemon exploded in the fall.

Also my partner says the best return she can offer is 50% roi because she's awesome. Lol

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Id have to do more research, like see what youve done / how youve invested in Pokmon cards the past few years to justify how you can guarantee such a profit. And utilize a suspense account or something so that I could be made whole in the event the investments go bad. In other words, Id have zero risk and I dont know why youd want to do that, even if you were 99% confident itd work

Well I love the hobby aspect but all business deals go through my accountant first. I go to her with ideas and she either yays or nays me

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Isnt that your wife?

Yes. She is much more bearish than me so she likes to be pleasantly surprised. You have no doubt noticed I am very bullish. We make a good team.

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Hmm. 50% ROI in two years but youre confident you can make way more than that. Id be butthurt if I gave $50k and you turned it onto $300k and I only got back $75k.

I would not disclose my profits <_<

Also I view Pokemon products more like bonds than anything. Sealed product isn't exactly going to suddenly go down in value from MSRP, at worst you're looking at roughly break even. It's why I like the business so much. You just need to work it and know people =P

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Why would you not disclose profits to an investor? And bonds dont increase 300% in value. Fishy alert!

Investors don't demand to have their returns 100% assured. Fishy alert!

In fairness I try to get everyone here involved in Pokemon without my intervention but everyone keeps saying it is too much work while I work like 4 hours a week at this point. I know without a doubt taking money from you will make me a shit ton of money. I just... know that. I am shrewd, I know my market, and I know how to get the most for my products.

Two years ago I couldn't work full time anymore for about a year because I was having major thyroid problems (took awhile to figure that out as a first round of blood testing said it was fine) and this started off as a hobby to ease my boredom as was very depressed. Then I figured out how to make money and I never stopped even after I felt better.

Investing would imply you have risk, and also typically if you wanted a % of yearly profits then I would need to disclose profits. But if it is purely transactional of x money for y money then it's probably best if you don't know how much I make as you'd be salty.

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You first said that you could turn $80 into $700. Thats like, 900%. Then you said you would 90%, then 50%. And I wouldnt be salty at all. If your numbers were as good as you allege, then that would only encourage someone to invest. But its all good, Im too cautious to do this anyway.

Well I am always thinking about what I can do and then my accountant is like "chris shut up most investment portfolios offer 10% yearly gains stop trying to be a hero and be a good business person" and I am like "ergh yeah I know but it is fun having big goals" and then she talks about profit margin and it's a mess.

Like I could do 90%, but I'd be a terrible owner of my company for doing it as there's just no need. My accountant reminds me that just because you can doesn't mean you should agree to it in writing!

but yeah buy a case or two on your own. That's ten ETBs or 400-500 dollars. See where it goes in a few years as a pet project. You might find it rewarding.

What I can do and what I should do are very different things, don't mean to lead you on. But if you want the huge returns you got to put in the work =P.

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I do believe that the Pokmon trading business is a profitable one, especially if you know what youre doing

Some interesting data for anyone who follows these topics. These all retailed at 40-50 dollars:
https://shop.tcgplayer.com/pokemon/dragon-majesty/dragon-majesty-elite-trainer-box

https://shop.tcgplayer.com/pokemon/hidden-fates/hidden-fates-elite-trainer-box

https://shop.tcgplayer.com/pokemon/shining-fates/shining-fates-elite-trainer-box (just came out btw lol)

https://shop.tcgplayer.com/pokemon/shining-legends/shining-legends-elite-trainer-box

https://shop.tcgplayer.com/pokemon/sm-unified-minds/unified-minds-elite-trainer-box

https://shop.tcgplayer.com/pokemon/sm-cosmic-eclipse/cosmic-eclipse-elite-trainer-box

https://shop.tcgplayer.com/pokemon/sm-lost-thunder/lost-thunder-elite-trainer-box

https://shop.tcgplayer.com/pokemon/sm-team-up/team-up-elite-trainer-box

https://shop.tcgplayer.com/pokemon/sm-unbroken-bonds/unbroken-bonds-elite-trainer-box

https://shop.tcgplayer.com/pokemon/sm-forbidden-light/forbidden-light-elite-trainer-box

https://shop.tcgplayer.com/pokemon/generations/generations-elite-trainer-box

https://shop.tcgplayer.com/pokemon/sm-celestial-storm/celestial-storm-elite-trainer-box

I am not exactly cherry picking <_<


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I wouldn't be surprised if card collecting in general is seeing a wave of investment interest (or at least curiosity). For whatever reason, my FB feed is starting to get flooded with ads of some guys getting rich flipping baseball/basketball cards.

My brother and I have thousands of old Pokmon, Yu-Gi-Oh, and 1990s Marvel cards in our parents' house. Wonder if we're sitting on some money there.

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CaptainOfCrush posted...

I wouldn't be surprised if card collecting in general is seeing a wave of investment interest (or at least curiosity). For whatever reason, my FB feed is starting to get flooded with ads of some guys getting rich flipping baseball/basketball cards.

My brother and I have thousands of old Pokmon, Yu-Gi-Oh, and 1990s Marvel cards in our parents' house. Wonder if we're sitting on some money there.

Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh 100%

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Just fanciful thinking, of course

I'm never parting with my fucken Mystical Space Typhoons

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Yeah, there has been a huge wave recently of people doing unboxing/opening videos of TCG products, especially old Pokemon cards (which I imagine is at least part of the reason that prices are spiking so much).

I know that MtG has been consistently growing over the last few years as well and there's an entire subreddit (mtgfinance) discussing the secondary market there.

I am really wary about the long term potential of MtG specifically - Hasbro/Wizards has been treating the franchise like Activision treated Guitar Hero, pumping out tons of products in the last year and making decisions based on growing the fanbase at the expense of the long term fans (mainly the Secret Lair Walking Dead and upcoming LotR and Warhammer products). I predict that the MtG bubble will burst in the next few years and prices will come crashing down - I can't speak to Pokemon, though.

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That said, MtG prices for some products have also seen an insane spike - I know that Time Spiral block boxes which would have cost 100-120 bucks 10 years ago are now selling for 1000-1500 on eBay.

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I am not touching MtG. but Pokemon is just an ever renewing resource. Sword and Shield are the most bought games in over a decade! Plenty of new fans.

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I've opened a decent amount of below MSRP Shining Fates.

Don't think I really ended up with anything too interesting though besides one amazing rare and some VMaxs


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That said I should have probably kept my ETB unopened. I think it was all junk too.

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Sunroof posted...

Why would you not disclose profits to an investor? And bonds dont increase 300% in value. Fishy alert!

What he's saying isn't fishy at all. He's extremely optimistic about what he can do but he doesn't actually know for certain that he can make 800%, and his wife is extremely cognizant of this fact. His recognition of how his extreme bullishness is reigned in by his wifes bearishness is very self aware. If he says he'll give you $90k but he only turns your $50k into $95k, then he only gets to keep $5k. Maybe that's good but maybe it's not worth his time considering it means he's focusing left on his other more profitable endeavors

Worse - the terms you said were actually "I'll give you $50k and then you give me $90k in two years". In this case, you've given him a loan that he has to pay back. So if he only makes $75k he has to make up the shortfall of $15k. Or worse - what if he only makes $10k. Now he owes you $80k out of his own pocket?

That's what happens with businesses that sell bonds - they have to pay it back regardless of how the specific purpose they used the money from it went, so they have to limit the interest paid out to obtain that bond.

You could try negotiating a deal where he'll give you 50% of any profit on the stuff bought with that money but that's probably more work to track on their end than they want to deal with. Offering 50% ROI is a pretty good and generous deal, especially if he guarantees it.

Anyways, Chris the thing I don't get with your strategy is that it sounds like you just buy packs and assume you will make a lot of money out of it. Is that really how it works? Why wouldn't everyone just do this? Isn't the assumption that generally you lose money on packs? Is there a certain number of packs you have to open that it becomes pretty certain you'll get enough high value packs to make up for all the loser packs?

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CoolCly posted...

What he's saying isn't fishy at all. He's extremely optimistic about what he can do but he doesn't actually know for certain that he can make 800%, and his wife is extremely cognizant of this fact. His recognition of how his extreme bullishness is reigned in by his wifes bearishness is very self aware. If he says he'll give you $90k but he only turns your $50k into $95k, then he only gets to keep $5k. Maybe that's good but maybe it's not worth his time considering it means he's focusing left on his other more profitable endeavors

Worse - the terms you said were actually "I'll give you $50k and then you give me $90k in two years". In this case, you've given him a loan that he has to pay back. So if he only makes $75k he has to make up the shortfall of $15k. Or worse - what if he only makes $10k. Now he owes you $80k out of his own pocket?

That's what happens with businesses that sell bonds - they have to pay it back regardless of how the specific purpose they used the money from it went, so they have to limit the interest paid out to obtain that bond.

You could try negotiating a deal where he'll give you 50% of any profit on the stuff bought with that money but that's probably more work to track on their end than they want to deal with. Offering 50% ROI is a pretty good and generous deal, especially if he guarantees it.

Anyways, Chris the thing I don't get with your strategy is that it sounds like you just buy packs and assume you will make a lot of money out of it. Is that really how it works? Why wouldn't everyone just do this? Isn't the assumption that generally you lose money on packs? Is there a certain number of packs you have to open that it becomes pretty certain you'll get enough high value packs to make up for all the loser packs?

So this probably needs to be an audio or a video but very brief explanation.

1. I am smarter than most people (sorry)
2. I am more dedicated than most people
3. I had more time on my hands than most people to pursue this
4. My partner got her masters in accounting at 20 years old. She is super brilliant and is able to keep track of things and has turned the business side (shipping/grading) into a science of very little cost.

Now that's broad.

So here's a fact: I open packs for fun. If I am opening packs it is partially because it is fun.

Now let's take Hidden Fates tins as an example of my thought process for opening (Opening is probably overall the least ROI for new stuff,.

For 17 dollars I got a promo card that at the time went for 2.50 dollars on average, so I was paying 14.50 for four packs of hidden fates. Now also Hidden Fates online codes were going for .20 cents each at the time, so I was paying 13.70 for for four packs of cards not including online codes in every pack.

Now, I can sell a 5000 card lot for 300 dollars.

4 packs give me 40 cards. So I need 500 packs to make 300 cards. So at 3.425 dollars a pack it would take me 1,712.50 to make 300 dollars. So now I am paying 2.825 a pack to chase cards. For a set like Hidden Fates that is always going to be a big win given how many hit cards there are.

BUT, purely from an ROI perspective... you keep stuff sealed, scout singles that have great centering and buy them for raw price, and you practice patience.

Those promos btw? They now go for an average of 8 dollars and I have like 1000 of them lol


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Moonroof is just cockteasing you and you know it

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He said hes turned $80 into $700, and can buy larger quantities in bulk from distributors, so it would therefore stand to reason that turning $50k into $90k would be extremely easy. As we found out, Chris was overly optimistic with his figures

Hah yeah I know, I do have fun explaining my business though. My old boss invested 20k for just a 12% return, he was happy with it.

My business isn't technically complicated I just have a lot of knowledge stuffed into my brain

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And now hes talking smack about your cock

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Out of curiosity, why do you refer to your wife as your partner?

Sunroof posted...

He said hes turned $80 into $700, and can buy larger quantities in bulk from distributors, so it would therefore stand to reason that turning $50k into $90k would be extremely easy. As we found out, Chris was overly optimistic with his figures

Actually it is moreso that I would be a bad businessman to take that deal. My links showed you that ETBs go up anywhere from 100% all the way up to 1000% heh.

And those are all in the last five years, nothing particularly ancient.

Like there's a difference between what I can do and what I am going to offer someone for literally no work!

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Sunroof posted...

Out of curiosity, why do you refer to your wife as your partner?

Easier because in different conversations I am referring to her as my business partner. No one cares that she's my wife, it is important that she understands the business.

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Like yeah so she's like "yeah this guy is stupid thinking we'd offer that high on ROI for something assured. It's like bidding against yourself just to watch yourself suffer."

I am more of a "I can totally do this" and she's more like "yeah but I want to make the optimal amount of money."

I am sales, she's accounting for a reason lol. She understands how not to give too good of deals, I am often times waaaaay too forth coming and casual in the topic because you guys are my buds.

Also just because I am sometimes accused of not sharing my failures I am down 6k on RKT this week 'oops'

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House votes on stimulus on Tuesday. Not sure what time but get your investments in before then!

Sunroof posted...

He said hes turned $80 into $700, and can buy larger quantities in bulk from distributors, so it would therefore stand to reason that turning $50k into $90k would be extremely easy. As we found out, Chris was overly optimistic with his figures

TCG market could crash tomorrow - promising these kinds of returns cannot be assumed to be "extremely easy". Chris is wiling to be his own money on this stuff but it would be extremely irresponsible to promise these returns to investors. So, on the advice of his accountant, he isn't.

To Chris. That's interesting. It sounds like you have a mix of the ability to resell unopened packs/boxes at a profit, reselling high value cards at a profit, and selling bulk card lots to recoup some original cost.

Are 5000 card lots just random mixes of cards? Are they all commons or is there an assumption of rare cards being mixed in? If this is just low tier cards that are worthless then it's just free recoupment of investment while you sell the value cards for more separately, but I'm wondering if buyers are happy with that.

I have to say that I am somewhat intrigued. I wonder how big this market is - are you not worried about telling us about this creates competitors, or do you think it wouldn't make a splash? If you list cards on ebay or whatever, more people listing cards on ebay would create compeititon!

I have to imagine shipping is a big logistical problem for you, both physically organizing and packaging everything and paying shipping costs. Is the cost of shipping individual cards negligible? Just a sealed card in a letter or something more? You mentioned grading - does that mean you have to ship cards to a service that does this, pay them, and have it shipped back?

I wonder how being in Canada affects this these things even further if I were to do this. Shipping things crossborder could be problematic. Do you sell to buyers in Canada?

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